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Thread: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

  1. #26
    LX User lostscotiaguy's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Sorry to laugh, but YUP looks like you've an issue with a rogue rubber gasket.



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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Quote Originally Posted by lostscotiaguy View Post
    Sorry to laugh, but YUP looks like you've an issue with a rogue rubber gasket.
    Yeah I think you kind of have to laugh. If I understood more about carbs in general I probably would have looked down there before I took the thing off to tighten it. Though if I'm not mistaken, I think that thing is pinched between the gap that I closed when I tightened the screws from underneath, so it may not have been in that position until I monkeyed with it. Anyway, I guess I'll have to take the whole thing off and find out which gasket that is. Whatever it is, it's cut, so I guess I'll have to either buy a rebuild kit to get the part, or replace the whole carb, which I don't think I can do. Anybody have ideas on what that gasket is? I guess I'll know soon enough.

    Thanks everyone,
    D

  3. #28
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    I'm betting that happened when you tightened up those screws, and on second look I think that's not a rubber gasket, but the main one between the top and bottom pieces of the carb. Another bit of a pain to get to (A little more complicated in some senses) at least the top part comes off without needing to remove the whole carb. This piece only needs to be unscrewed from the top, but you need to be careful with the choke and throttle linkage on the passengers side of the carb and the accelerator pump arm on the driver's side.

    Here's the fun part (NOT) I think you can only get a replacement gasket as part of a set.
    2 Examples: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,5964

    Not SUPER Pricey but still a bit much for just 1 gasket. I know if I bought the set I'd be tempted to do a rebuild (Which I did, and regretted it ever since). If I were you I'd only replace what's needed.

    HOWEVER: If you can grab a good pic of that gasket I might actually have a spare. I still have a few from when I did my own rebuild, and there was 3 different variations on the same gasket in the kit. Assuming your car isn't a California model, I may have just the gasket you need. Hardly an expensive item to send to someone else....

  4. #29
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    DANG IT!!! You know what, I'm sorry to say this but I took a third look and I think you're right.... it DOES look like the rubber gasket found in the gap between the 2 pieces you just fixed. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news (But in a way it's better news). You'll still find the piece you'll need in one of those kits, but I don't think I have any spares of that gasket. Actually, you know what...give me a pic of it anyway so I can be sure... I HAVE hung on to a lot of random Carb-Related bits so it's certainly worth a peek.

  5. #30

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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    No pics for me.
    Dr_Snooz

    "I like to take hammers, and just break stuff, just break stuff." - Beavis


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  6. #31
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Quote Originally Posted by lostscotiaguy View Post
    DANG IT!!! You know what, I'm sorry to say this but I took a third look and I think you're right.... it DOES look like the rubber gasket found in the gap between the 2 pieces you just fixed. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news (But in a way it's better news). You'll still find the piece you'll need in one of those kits, but I don't think I have any spares of that gasket. Actually, you know what...give me a pic of it anyway so I can be sure... I HAVE hung on to a lot of random Carb-Related bits so it's certainly worth a peek.
    That's very gracious LSG, Once I get it apart I'll send a pic of what I have. My plan is to go tomorrow night to the Honda wrecking yard across the river from my home, pull a carb for $20, and take it apart so I know what I'm getting into and get a little practice. I suppose there's a slim chance that the gasket from that one could replace my bad one, but it's likely to be bad as well I would think. I've been expecting to have to just buy the rebuild kit and use what I need. I'm not doing the whole rebuild, that's certain.

  7. #32
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Quote Originally Posted by atkin68 View Post
    I've been expecting to have to just buy the rebuild kit and use what I need. I'm not doing the whole rebuild, that's certain.
    Well, hopefully you'll get lucky and it will just be one of these gaskets:





    I also showed the spacer that these gaskets mate up to, There's one on each side of it. Let me know if you change your mind about wanting those gaskets....the ones I have here are new.

  8. #33
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    LSG, you've got a PM. That's the gasket alright. I guess when the screws got loose it got sucked into the barrel. When I tried to pull it out, I found it was pinched in that butterfly plate (or whatever it's called). No wonder it all went haywire.

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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Update:

    Got the gaskets pictured below last night, very generously provided by LSG. MANY THANKS. When I went in to replace the gasket, I confirmed that the gastket I tried to use from the '79 was indeed NOT seated properly and left a gap. I took my time and got the replacement from LSG in correctly without having to remove the trickier attachments to the carb. Got it all back together, turned the key.....battery dead from sitting for a week and being pretty old.

    Put the charger on it, came back an hour later, fired it up. Huge difference. Chugging/Bucking is gone under load. But there's still no power. I was able to drive it around town for a test, but there's just no acceleration or power under load. And after 10 minutes, it just heated up like hell again. I have no idea what that's about. I'm really concerned that in all of the work I've done, I messed something up, crossed up a couple tubes, got some debris into the works, I don't know.

    Tonight I'm going to do the timing and make sure it's right. I can still hear a hiss, somewhere in there, so I guess that's the next thing I'll try to identify. The gasket definitely made a huge difference, and it's nice to know I solves at least some part of the problem. HUGE thanks again to LSG for sending the gasket.

  10. #35
    LX User lostscotiaguy's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Glad I could help...but sad you're still not mobile.
    Am I wrong or has this car been sitting for a while?

    3 questions for ya: Have you driven the car while it's been considered "Normal"? I don't know your history with the car I.E. Is it new to you? or is it your "Old Bessie" that you've had for a while? I'm just curious because you mention no power under load and I'm curious (if it IS new to you) that you may be confusing "gutless" as being "running improperly". If you ARE quite familiar with how she runs normally, please don't be offended by the question.

    Question 2: RE Overheating: Do you know what shape your thermostat is in?

    Question 3: RE Chugging and bucking: What shape is your gas in? has it sat for long?

  11. #36
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Quote Originally Posted by lostscotiaguy View Post
    Glad I could help...but sad you're still not mobile.
    Am I wrong or has this car been sitting for a while?

    3 questions for ya: Have you driven the car while it's been considered "Normal"? I don't know your history with the car I.E. Is it new to you? or is it your "Old Bessie" that you've had for a while? I'm just curious because you mention no power under load and I'm curious (if it IS new to you) that you may be confusing "gutless" as being "running improperly". If you ARE quite familiar with how she runs normally, please don't be offended by the question.

    Question 2: RE Overheating: Do you know what shape your thermostat is in?

    Question 3: RE Chugging and bucking: What shape is your gas in? has it sat for long?
    Great questions.

    1. I bought this car about two years ago from the original owner. It's been my main vehicle ever since except when I'm driving the whole family around. I know it really well. Having said that, there's zero question in my mind that the condition I'm experiencing would be identified as a MAJOR problem by even the most clueless, inexperienced driver. It's great the bucking is gone, but between the overheating and loss of power I'm beginning to suspect an exhaust problem. Had a clogged catalytic on the family car once and the effect was stunning.

    2. No idea about the thermostat. Never EVER had an issue with overheating before this episode. I will check it.

    3. I wondered about the gas too. In fact when this started I thought I was out of gas and stopped to get more. So the gas is fresh.

    Here's one thought that occurred to me: If, when the screws from under the carb shook loose and that gasket got sucked into the carb and pinched in the plate, a piece of that gasket got into the works somewhere downstream - where could it end up? Could it explain what's happening if a piece of the gasket got lodged in a valve, for example? The gasket did not come out whole, and I could not account for all of it. If a small piece got pulled through, where would it go? Probably making myself look monumentally stupid with this question, but what the hell.

    Thanks,
    D

  12. #37
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Quote Originally Posted by atkin68 View Post
    If a small piece got pulled through, where would it go? Probably making myself look monumentally stupid with this question, but what the hell.

    D
    No stupid questions.... just unanswered ones.
    Welllll....unless they're like: "When is green?" or "How do you tomato suitcase?" "Which way should I turn the hedgehog matrix??"

    I'd imagine if you had it stuck in one of your intake valves you'd have backfiring through the intake and it would probably be pretty consistent.

    If it made it past the intake valve and into the combustion chamber I imagine it would either burn off or just turn to some kind of gummy crap in your combustion chamber. Checked your plugs since the problem?
    A: How they look in general.
    B: How they look compared to one another. Any odd ones out with different coloring on the tip?

    If it had somehow just "jumped the gap" and managed to get into the exhaust valve I also imagine it would burn off. If not then it would be backfiring out the back (also on a fairly consistent basis)
    I guess over all I wouldn't rule out that the chunk of gasket DIDN"T just go into your intake, I just don't think it would cause any long term damage...it certainly in't a desirable thing but I really don't think it would give you the troubles your having.

    You mentioned adjusting the timing and I'm wondering if you've done that again. these cars are pretty fussy with their timing it seems. I know a LOT of older cars can usually be adjusted + or - 10 to 15 degrees. Due to the CVCC (I THINK) these ones are fussier, and only have a range of + or - 2 degrees Before or after TDC.

    Another random question: Are you sure she's firing on all cylinders? If you can get her idling, try just going through while she's running and disconnect a plug wire (just one at a time obviously) then reconnect it. Do this for each wire and make sure the idle stumbles when you unplug each one...if it doesn't then you've found your problem cylinder.
    At this point my help diagnosing your problem seems like just shots in the dark, but anyone that wants my 2 cents is always welcome to it.
    Just remember this one: Fuel, Air, Fire. If the car wont run properly..it's a problem with one of the 3. Keep me posted!

    Oh, and that clogged exhaust idea....hmmmmm.....
    Last edited by lostscotiaguy; 06-27-2012 at 05:38 PM.

  13. #38
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    how about a tiny dose of good news, related to one of your comments: i did redo the timing tonight and when i got it right, the car was idling at a level that it has always died at. i thought sure it WAS dying, but it kept humming along. when i checked the rpms, it was at about 700-800, and the timing was good. this is good news because i have never been able to get it to idle below 2K without dying. this tells me that my past issues with the idle must have been related to the massive vacuum leak from the loose screws in the carb, and that my fix was a success.

    now back to the regularly scheduled bad news: still have no power, and it REALLY sounds like it's missing, but it always has and i have never had trouble with power. i have also tried that process of removing one plug wire at a time to no avail. still, i will try it again tonight.

    i believe i still have a vacuum leak somewhere but can't locate it. i'm hoping that my current problem is that now that i've fixed the BIG leak, something else that was compensating for it just needs to be adjusted. but let's face it, at the moment i'm lost. more tomorrow....or maybe later tonight.

    thanks again,
    d

  14. #39
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    some more observations from session two with the accord tonight:

    1. took off one plug wire at a time tonight to see if one cylinder was bad. results on cylinders one and four: idle dropped significantly but engine did not die. results on two and three: idle jumped up significantly. is that normal, i would have expected the same effect on all cylinders.

    2. i let the engine idle till it started to heat up significantly, and the fan never came on. that can't be good and must be related to the overheating. gonna dig into that.

  15. #40

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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    When was your last tune up? When was the last time you serviced the cooling system?
    Dr_Snooz

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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    it's fixed guys. i don't think i have the balls to admit what i did in the process of trying to "fix" it that actually kept it from having power after i fixed the carb - which was the real problem all along. after the carb was fixed, i still didn't have power, but only because i made a mistake the very first day i was trying to diagnose the problem.

    i also found another vacuum leak tonight using the carb cleaner method, and it appears to be a the intake manifold. i don't know what's going to develop from that, but it drives better than ever at the moment so i'm back to having a functioning commuter which is priority one.

    somewhere in the process, the fan stopped coming on, so i'm overheating a bit when it idles too long. but when i drive it cools down. trying to figure out the fan problem now. i disconnected the leads from the thermoswitch, put a jumper across them, and the fan came on. so i guess i need to replace the thermoswitch.

    with the carb problem corrected, it idles properly for the first time since i have owned it. i'm pretty happy about that. and very grateful for everyone's suggestions and especially lostscotiaguy's gracious donation of the gasket i needed.

  17. #42
    LX User lostscotiaguy's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Idle goes UP when plug is unhooked? Damn.... 2 and 3...I'm going out on a limb here but are you sure your Cylinder #2 & 3 plug wires are in the right order on the distributor?
    If 3 & 2 are switched it would certainly explain the power loss and overheating (I think) as well.


    INFO:
    Distributor cap should have a mark on the side, showing which one is plug number 1.
    Distributor rotates COUNTER-Clockwise.
    If you had them set for Clockwise rotation it would explain your problem, cylinder 1 and 4 would still fire in the right order.
    Firing order is 1,3,4,2.
    Cylinder #1 is the closest one to the "Pulley side" of the engine (Driver's side)
    I REALLY hope this is your problem, cause otherwise I'm quite puzzled by this one.

    ORRRR: It's a BIG stretch:
    I could almost see your plug gaps almost having a similar effect...but that's a BIG F***IN stretch, your gap would have to be WAY the F*** off (Pardon my French) in fact I'm not 100% they COULD be that far off.
    Standard Plug = NGK B6EB-L11
    or Nippon Denso ND W21ES-L11
    Plug gap= 1-1.1MM (.039-.043")

    Side Note: If I get "too basic" with my info/instructions, please don't be insulted, as I said I'm not 100% sure about how knowledgeable you are so I just like to err on the side of caution and break s**t down and explain it as best I can.
    I'd rather be told about something I already know than have people make assumptions about what I know and leave out details.

    I'll be waiting to hear back! This has been a good mental exercise over the last few days.

  18. #43
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Quote Originally Posted by lostscotiaguy View Post
    Idle goes UP when plug is unhooked? Damn.... 2 and 3...I'm going out on a limb here but are you sure your Cylinder #2 & 3 plug wires are in the right order on the distributor?
    If 3 & 2 are switched it would certainly explain the power loss and overheating (I think) as well.


    INFO:
    Distributor cap should have a mark on the side, showing which one is plug number 1.
    Distributor rotates COUNTER-Clockwise.
    If you had them set for Clockwise rotation it would explain your problem, cylinder 1 and 4 would still fire in the right order.
    Firing order is 1,3,4,2.
    Cylinder #1 is the closest one to the "Pulley side" of the engine (Driver's side)
    I REALLY hope this is your problem, cause otherwise I'm quite puzzled by this one.

    ORRRR: It's a BIG stretch:
    I could almost see your plug gaps almost having a similar effect...but that's a BIG F***IN stretch, your gap would have to be WAY the F*** off (Pardon my French) in fact I'm not 100% they COULD be that far off.
    Standard Plug = NGK B6EB-L11
    or Nippon Denso ND W21ES-L11
    Plug gap= 1-1.1MM (.039-.043")

    Side Note: If I get "too basic" with my info/instructions, please don't be insulted, as I said I'm not 100% sure about how knowledgeable you are so I just like to err on the side of caution and break s**t down and explain it as best I can.
    I'd rather be told about something I already know than have people make assumptions about what I know and leave out details.

    I'll be waiting to hear back! This has been a good mental exercise over the last few days.
    hahaha! that's exactly what i didn't have the balls to admit, lsg. the first day the car was acting up i stopped at an autozone store and the clerk printed out the firing order and when we looked at the car together the clerk said 2 and 3 were crossed, so we switched them. after the carb got fixed and the problem changed but there was still no power, i kept rechecking the plug wires but, all on the assumption that the rotor went clockwise. i took the cap off last night and spun it and voila, i knew what was wrong. switched the wires back and now my car is running better than it ever has.

    still got some stuff to work out, but i can drive now. thanks again for all your help!

  19. #44
    LX User lostscotiaguy's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Great News Man!


    Let me know if you run into any more troubles, I'll be more than willing to help. My diagnosis of problems USUALLY works for other people's cars, but seemingly never my own.
    Oh...and got any pics of your machine?

  20. #45
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Quote Originally Posted by lostscotiaguy View Post
    Great News Man!


    Let me know if you run into any more troubles, I'll be more than willing to help. My diagnosis of problems USUALLY works for other people's cars, but seemingly never my own.
    Oh...and got any pics of your machine?
    sorry for the long delay in response man. here's a shot of the 81. this car does it all for me.

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

  21. #46
    LX User lostscotiaguy's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help



    Link doesn't work....

  22. #47
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    Re: Trouble with my 81 Accord, Need help

    Bro, bro this is exactly what was wrong with my shit! Thank you.

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