Water Pump / Timing Belt

[CoAsTeR]

Water pump is leaking.

it's cheap for the part but labour is like 5 hrs apparently. Big $$$.

I figure I'll change the timing belt while I have the cover off doing the water pump.

What needs to be ripped out to get this done?

How hard would this be if I were to do it all in my driveway? I try to do most my own work, but if it's a major job and I have to get underneath the car to yank stuff out then forget it......

Thanks guys & gals!

[88lxDCOE]

Sometimes you need an impact wrench to get the nut off the crank pulley. You have to remove the bolts from the side motor mount. But first you have to have the engine supported from below on a jack or something. Usually you cant get to everything without taking the power steering pump loose. Remove all the belts. Its real hard to reach the adjustment bolt on the alternator. Its a bitch to get the timing belt shield lower half off. Hmm lets see.... Keep everything aligned at Top Dead Center. If the belt is off a tooth your car wont be for shit until you line it up straight. You can save the money but give yourself the time to do it. It takes 5 hours for a mechanic to do it. Its more like 15+ if you havent done it before.

[CoAsTeR]

ouch....

well according to my mechanic's program, It's not necessary to rip the timing belt cover off. In that case I wont do the timing belt.

What if I JUST did the water pump? Can the water pump come out with little ease? Is it necessary to remove the timing belt cover?

According to the program you remove the alternator belt, remove the 3 pulley bolts and slip it out.

Easier said than done perhaps? What do you's think?

Just doing the waterpump that is......

[88lxDCOE]

Hold on let me go outside and check.

[88lxDCOE]

Well, youre going to at least have to get enough of the cover off to get the pump to wiggle out. There is one bolt that bolts the cover and the pump in the same place. Romoving the alt. belt is what i was saying was hard to get to. Its a tight fit but it looks like you can get in there get the water pump out.

[88lxDCOE]

My book doesnt say anything about having to do anything with the timing belt cover either. Huh. Should not be that hard of a process to just do the water pump by itself.

[anchovies]

The water pump is not run by the timing belt. So if you're lazy, just change the water pump.

[greekguy7]

As far as an impact wrench, how mant ft. lbs of torque would you reccomend in order to be able to get bolts like the axle spindle nut and crankshaft nut off???

I seen some electric ones on ebay pretty cheap too....

BTW.... 5 hours for a pro mechanic to do a water pump is way too high!! I had my timing belt done for like $175, parts and labor a couple yers ago, so you figure he charged me about 3 hours labor tops to do the belt. The water pump is easier.

[DBMaster]

It took me about 4 hours to do my timing belt the first time.

If you can get the long, threaded rod out of the block that goes throught the water pump you can change it without complete removal of the timing belt cover. That is why there is an access hole (with a rubber plug in it) in the timing belt cover to allow you to remove the one covered bolt.

You should remove all of the bolts in the timing cover near the pump and be prepared to pry a little. I had a water pump fail preamturely after my last timing belt change and had to do just what you are talking about.

HEED THIS ADVICE, THOUGH. BUY A GENUINE HONDA WATER PUMP. I used a brand new, aftermarket pump for convenience. It actually cost more than the factory pump from hondaautomotiveparts.com and the bearing went bad after just 18 months. According to Majestic Honda, Honda Motors has a patent on their bearing/seal design. Who knows. All I know is that I don't ever want to have to go through that again.

[BoredRec]

Originally posted by DBMaster
If you can get the long, threaded rod out of the block that goes throught the water pump you can change it without complete removal of the timing belt cover. That is why there is an access hole (with a rubber plug in it) in the timing belt cover to allow you to remove the one covered bolt.


That's the biggest part right there. Get that thing out and it's easier than shit. I usually find two nuts to put on it, double nut it, tighten them together against each other, and ever so carefully use the nuts just like the head of a bolt. Comes right out.

And yeah, 5 hours to change the water pump is insane. You need to ask what he's smoking, and if you could get a little to sell, cuz obviously it's good shit and you could definitely make the money needed selling the stuff to pay for the repairs.....3 hours tops is all we charge.


Oh yeah, one more cool trick/tip....take out the motor mount when doing the water pump. Use a jack and raise the motor a bit. Makes getting access to those bolts way easier.

[88lxDCOE]

I think he meant 5 hours for waterpump and timing belt also. As for crank pulley bolt torque: the book says 83 ft lbs.

[A20A1]

I can't find a crank pully holder... it should be real easy for me to get the pully off with the engine out of the car.... I just need the right tool... and napa didn't have it... I'll try checkers when I get back from my trip.

[88lxDCOE]

My friend has a 94 teg gsr and we didnt have a strong enough impact. So we had to special order the pulley holder from Mac tools. I lost the part number. If I find it Ill PM you. Im surprised that your pulley has the hex cut out for the tool. Mine doesnt. Had to use an impact.

[AccordEpicenter]

Be careful to use a quality water pump, I didnt one time and the bearings in it were junk after less than 30000 miles.... way too big of a headache to risk....

[njpeter]

you would be a fool not to do the timing belt while you're all greasy, you can get the pump out without doing it, but when was the last time you actually changed the belt? Granted dealing with the ps/ac and the rest can be a bear, especially in winter. If you can't get the crank bolt out I _might_ just do the pump and come back another day, but in the past something has gone wrong ( like dropping a bolt into the timing cover.

[CoAsTeR]

I'm kinda curious if the previous owner did the timing belt or not? If the belt breaks will it do damage to our motor?

The car has 425000kms on it... :)

[doug]

there is a better chance of it doing damage than not doing damage, but some people have had belts break and no damage occured. It may well depend on engine speed at the time of the break, I had a belt break on my 82 civic station wagon while at idle and it survived.

[BoredRec]

Originally posted by doug
there is a better chance of it doing damage than not doing damage, but some people have had belts break and no damage occured. It may well depend on engine speed at the time of the break, I had a belt break on my 82 civic station wagon while at idle and it survived.

Happened to my 88 Civic and managed to drive away (of cource that was 2 weeks later with a new belt cuz I was poor at the time and had to do it myself).

[Greg]

NJPeter--

that's so funny that you mention dropping a bolt into the timing cover.

THAT'S EXACTLY what happened to me when I was doing the water pump on my G/F's 86 LXI. I was SO MAD at myself about this! I planned to do the timing belt too, but then I couldn't get the crank pulley bolt loose, and changed my mind and decided to just go after the water pump...

SO THEN I DROPPED THE BOLT IN and was so pissed off. I had to go buy an impact wrench, run a 25 foot extension cord out my apartment window to my compressor (I had a compressor already), then run 100 feet of air hose to where my car was parked on the street to just barely reach the POS so I could take off that pulley!!!

Then I changed tbelt and water pump together.

Anyway, if anyone goes after JUST the water pump, be SUPER careful with all the bolts. Do yourself a favor and put some kind of adhesive shit onto a socket with a magnet holder to make sure you don't drop one.

I'm usually VERY good about not dropping bolts when I don't want to, but I made just one tiny slip, and it totally screwed me up on that job! It's so easy to do with this particular application.

[Einstein]

I think my water pump has a slow leak. While I adjusted the valve clearance, I saw the timing belt was not getting wet from the leak. The leak is slow, maybe I top off the coolant resovoir every couple weeks. I plan to have both the timing belt and water pump replaced by Honda in the summer of 04.

[njpeter]

if any of you are foolhardy enough to just do the pump, make sure that water o-ring is going to stay put. I missed a bolt during one of my first attempts to do the pump sans timing belt, and I ended up breaking the flange ( luckily not the block). No doubt most of us have made the same foolish mistakes over the years. And I thought it was a dealer rip off when they wanted to change the pump at the same time.

I got my crank bolt out by lowering the engine onto a block of wood to "hold it": and then cracked it with a breaker bar. It's a delicate thing to do, but it's worked for me more then once. A good jack is helpful..fine control is what is needed to avoid damage.

came across some outfit selling a timing belt that they claim will last 90k miles. If I could keep a belt clean and dry that long it might last.

I broke a belt once on my 87, about 10k miles short of a change, no engine damage. I was doing 65mph

[rocky2]

If your water pump is bad "always" do the belt. "tip" after bolting up water pump to block add water to block at this time,reason is if it leaks,then all the work after that is for not.

[Tim Yoak]

Note while the timing belt is off it's really easy to change the oil pump,cheap insurance, but if it fails later you have to take out the timing belt

[Tim Yoak]

Note while the timing belt is off it's really easy to change the oil pump,cheap insurance, but if it fails later you have to take out the timing belt

[BoredRec]

Originally posted by Tim Yoak
Note while the timing belt is off it's really easy to change the oil pump,cheap insurance, but if it fails later you have to take out the timing belt

Yeah, except they're $160 bux. I only replace when I need to.

[Greg]

Yeah, I'm with BoredRec on the oil pump...

My 87LX has 235K miles, and the oil pump is fine. These oil pumps are good, and I think it's a waste to change it just cuz you already took some stuff apart.

I feel the same way about the water pump. I changed mine on my G/F's LXI cuz the bearing started making nasty noises, but otherwise I think it's a waste to change it w/each t-belt. I think they probably last for at least 2 belts (120K miles) if not 3 belts (180Kmiles).

[DBMaster]

Yeah, but if you have an 89 like mine (90-100K timing belt interval) do you want to risk running the pump 200K miles to save $37?

[njpeter]

-does rubber stretch more slowly under the hood of an 89 ?
-does the oil not flow as freely into the timing belt cavity on an 89?
-was there some magic change in the timing belt geometry?

this dyed in the wool tyler durden-joe peshci clone wants to know what he has to do to get out of timing belt hell..and 90k intervals sounds like a damm good start from here.

[rocky2]

Greg.,

I got a tip for you and some others. Stuff a rag down into a area that just in case of a dropped part/bolt the rag will act as a net.

[anchovies]

what if you forgot about the rag and assembled everything back? lol
it happens, and will happen to YOU :D

[DBMaster]

Sorry, njpeter, I have no idea. I do know that I have been told that by several different Honda mechanics. I run mine that long, that's all I know and the new Hondas all go over 100K.

It might have been a change in the rubber used for the belt. You may learn that after you replace a belt in an 86-88 that the new belt can go 90K miles. I have over 200K on my engine and have never seen any leakage from the cam seal. Maybe that was improved for 89.

Who knows?