View Full Version : Project First Gen
JSmythe
10-13-2014, 12:07 PM
I bought 2 first gens from 250 mi away. The two drives in my SUV were a project in themselves. The craiglist pictures and accuracy, as well as the phone calls did not match up, but after driving that far, it wasn't enough to throw it all away. I knew between the two of them I had a working car.
My 1981 Hatch needed a new trans (5th gear and reverse were out). New CV boots, brakes fixed (neither front nor rear worked), interior overhaul. The previous owner put a lot of work into it, but it was mostly mediocre quality work. I am a bit worried, as he said he rebuilt the engine, head and carb. Though it does idle once warmed up.
My 1980 Sedan needed a new Master Clutch Cylinder, Starter, Fuel Pump, Battery, Distributor and who knows what else. Though the brakes work great and the tranny seemed to shift smooth, I just couldn't get it to fire up. It looks like this will be the donor. Then I will see whether to part it out or restore it with a different motor/trans. (Thinking about a plug in electric conversion)
First things first. Get one of them working. This past weekend I dropped the trans on the hatch. Hoping to swap them next weekend, and put the wheels, rotors, lines and calipers from the sedan onto the hatch. Bleed the brakes and take it for a test spin. Wish me luck!
Dr_Snooz
10-13-2014, 07:13 PM
Good stuff! Post lots of pics for us.
JSmythe
10-23-2014, 08:56 PM
My 1980 Sedan needed a new Master Clutch Cylinder, Starter, Fuel Pump, Battery, Distributor and who knows what else. Though the brakes work great and the tranny seemed to shift smooth, I just couldn't get it to fire up. It looks like this will be the donor. Then I will see whether to part it out or restore it with a different motor/trans. (Thinking about a plug in electric conversion)
Found a trans with 60 day warrant for $105 + $50 shipping. No tax, since I'm across the states. That should arrive next week.
Spent a day working on the doors, got 3 of 4 of them to open and have them lubed and pb blasted. They were rusted shut and the outside handles were worthless. I do need to get a cable for the driver door, to open it from the inside. Also, got the rear lock lever working. That is a really neat feature i've never seen before.
I got the 1980 sedan running. I cranked the engine with a breaker bar and it turned over pretty smooth.
Heres the list of parts I robbed off the blue car:
Starter
Fuel Pump
Clutch Master
Clutch Slave
Clutch Hydraulic Line
Plug
Plug Wires
Coil
After getting her running, i drove her up and down the street for 10 minutes. Tons of smoke coming out of the exhaust. Definitely a head gasket.Also, she runs very cold. I think the thermostat is stuck open. Im going to have to test that. I couldn't find reverse, i think it works, but needs a dissection. Since this car seems to be pretty mechanically sound, i am going to put the new (to me) tranny in her and hopefully have a reliable running car by the new year.
.6622
Power steering works like a charm. A/C seems to be in tact, but needs a belt. Heat works well.
http://i.imgur.com/1TZHN8p.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3sOGxs4.jpg
JSmythe
10-23-2014, 09:05 PM
http://youtu.be/QkVS-OFUJ4U
79cord
10-24-2014, 03:13 AM
2x 1Gs from AR this past weekend. a 1981 Hatchback and a 1980 sedan. Between the two of them I have a working car.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59800/IMG_0115.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59800/IMG_0113.jpg
[/QUOTE]
Thought I'd better drag your earlier pictures into this thread.
Sounds like a bargain price upon the transmission, exciting to have one running.
Was also quite surprised when I realized Honda had developed such awkward & troublesome door handles for the sedan rather than the hatchbacks proven design.
Given the engine change to CVCCII with cat-converter late in '80 I wondered if yours was late enough for both cars to share the same '4-port' head. Especially since the crankshaft/flywheel bolt size , 'transmission-tunnel' shape and gearshift linkage also changed around that time.
6628
'80 vs '81 shift linkages
JSmythe
10-24-2014, 11:43 AM
Thought I'd better drag your earlier pictures into this thread.
Sounds like a bargain price upon the transmission, exciting to have one running.
Was also quite surprised when I realized Honda had developed such awkward & troublesome door handles for the sedan rather than the hatchbacks proven design.
Given the engine change to CVCCII with cat-converter late in '80 I wondered if yours was late enough for both cars to share the same '4-port' head. Especially since the crankshaft/flywheel bolt size , 'transmission-tunnel' shape and gearshift linkage also changed around that time.
6628
'80 vs '81 shift linkages
Hot damn. I'll keep you posted. I just found out the other day that the half-axles are supposed to be different on these two models. Everything seems to be going my way this week, this might be a small snag. I'll report back with pictures. the ones you posted definitely concern me on getting my 81 running, but perhaps the guts from a tranny will fit in the other shell. I'll check the chilton or haynes.
79cord
10-25-2014, 10:32 PM
Don't panic too much. The transmissions themselves didn't seem to change as far as I could see.
Crankshaft-flywheel bolt holes went from 10 to 12mm diameter during '80 so might just have to keep flywheels with respective engines.
And shift linkages with respective bodies.
More of a problem if you were doing an automatic/manual conversion as I was on my Preludes, both were sold in 1980 but one could be called '81 model year with all Hondas updates, that usually seem to happen around Sept/October build date.
When Honda raised the 'transmission tunnel' around the g/shift (presumably to accommodate the cat converter), they also increased the transverse reinforcements under the front of the front seats (so revised seat mounts & higher seats) moved the front seat-buckle mounts from the top of the tunnel to the sides and revised the shifter console.
I think '81's also had a revised wiring loom with many new connectors (such as frt indicator & steering column elec. connectors), and even different radiator mountings....
They obviously were not afraid of changing things.
79cord
10-26-2014, 01:04 AM
Also you usually have to push the gearshift downward slightly as you move it across to reverse, and I sometimes find selecting first before trying for reverse helps.
JSmythe
10-27-2014, 10:15 AM
Also you usually have to push the gearshift downward slightly as you move it across to reverse, and I sometimes find selecting first before trying for reverse helps.
Sweeet, ill check that out. My tranny might be ok and I just didn't push down. If not, then I have one on the way anyways. (EDIT: Herp-da-derp. Reverse works like a charm on Old Grey. @79Cord, you're a hero! She will not need the tranny I purchased. Blue will need the guts of that tranny, or I can look into getting the 1980 linkage and getting rid of the Cat. - Not anything i'm worried about until I get Grey running. I can't believe I didn't try that. My old matrix was a 6 speed and reverse required pushing down to access it, it just didn't occur to me that a 5 speed would require that.)
Here she is up on jack stands, ready to take apart the bay for painting prep and to find the oil and coolant leaks.
http://i.imgur.com/zGHWAgO.jpg
79cord
10-28-2014, 03:10 AM
Well when I said g/box did not seem to change was that the '81 linkage should fit fine upon an '80 box.
But an '80 shift linkage probably wouldn't fit an '81 body as aside from the shift lever being mounted higher for '81, they were also mounted differently there. Pre-81 mounted by the 4 bolts around the shifter directly to the body, but '81 & on (until 2000? for Civics & Integra) the rear of the linkage was located by a rubber hanger that bolted to the body (in a different location) which probably allowed the shift linkage to move with the drivetrain a bit more without transmitting vibration.
JSmythe
10-30-2014, 07:58 PM
Brakes are off 80 sedan, ready for a good cleaning and paint.
http://i.imgur.com/wSceCfB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dqWi8DS.jpg
Tranny came. 80 on the left, 81 on the right. Hook up to the linkage is identical. mounting looks identical. I think it's plug and play. I may move this ahead in the list, because it's here and it's an easy install. plus i have 60 days of warranty to test it out. so i need to make sure it works.
http://i.imgur.com/ji75jqC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3MgSF8i.jpg
JSmythe
11-01-2014, 11:44 AM
My craigslist find. Appears to be a 32/36 DFEV. Only marking is on the E-Choke. Thinking it might be a knock off or OEM off a vehicle. Plenty of parts and even an extra filter kit.
http://i.imgur.com/EBYV3Sd.jpg
Shot of the progressive butterflies.
http://i.imgur.com/716gxJT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7l2x90l.jpg
JSmythe
11-02-2014, 06:31 PM
No Shortage of crap hiding in this car.
http://i.imgur.com/OBPgAOG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oSI4N8o.jpg
Draining the coolant. Cool little valve made this an easy job.
http://i.imgur.com/3X5TuBo.jpg
A Little Corrosion on the outside of the inlet.
http://i.imgur.com/S0OB268.jpg
Inside looks real clean though.
http://i.imgur.com/5bZf9jf.jpg
Thermostat looks to be in great shape. I will boil it to see. Rubber is in nice shape.
http://i.imgur.com/cXfAEXm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5USaCVQ.jpg
Inside where the thermostat goes looks good. There was no gasket on the inlet - bet that's where the leak is.
http://i.imgur.com/wR3E3fg.jpg
Inside of the radiator looks to be good too.
http://i.imgur.com/OwLnaks.jpg
JSmythe
11-02-2014, 06:32 PM
There's a crazy movement in the engine when shifting. I'm pretty sure this motor mount is the culprit. I think I will fill him with Poly.
http://i.imgur.com/XMZa8eZ.jpg
Gutted the old Carb and Vacuum system. Unreal how much there was in there. This car probably won't go to california now.
http://i.imgur.com/z8Ql64T.jpg
Some of the oil leak evidence. I think it's the valve cover gasket
http://i.imgur.com/s0XbHIt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vvmYe3G.jpg
Oil smattered heat shield. This is going to be spotless when we're done.
http://i.imgur.com/Ks7kAON.jpg
Dr_Snooz
11-02-2014, 06:49 PM
That's a heck of an oil leak, all thick and gooky. Yuck.
79cord
11-05-2014, 02:40 AM
Corrosion on the water inlet looks good compared to many! Have to love the obvious thought that want into the radiator drain tap. Did the cooling fans come on once fully warmed up? Fan switch on/in radiator often fails eventually.
Guess after seeing my experience/nightmare with the green '78 you checked for rust around the wiper motor, though you may have to unbolt & move aside the wiper motor before checking for bumps & crunchiness under Hondas bitumen pad there to be sure.
The upper mounting rod bushing certainly has a hard life, I filled mine with Urethane windscreen adhesive. The forces it transfers to the firewall upon harsh gearshifts are audible..
JSmythe
11-07-2014, 09:14 AM
Corrosion on the water inlet looks good compared to many! Have to love the obvious thought that want into the radiator drain tap. Did the cooling fans come on once fully warmed up? Fan switch on/in radiator often fails eventually.
yes, atleast 1 fan came on. Took a while to heat up, i thought maybe the thermostat was stuck open. Once warm it started spewing smoke. Not until it was warm though. Compression was all within spec 155-190psi, but i am going to tear down the motor anyways and replace the head studs with ARP and a new Felpro gasket. Ill check it out while I'm in there. Somehow it was billowing white plumes of smoke once it got warmed up. I need to source that leak, hoping its an easy find and repair. Wont know until i get it all torn apart though.
Guess after seeing my experience/nightmare with the green '78 you checked for rust around the wiper motor, though you may have to unbolt & move aside the wiper motor before checking for bumps & crunchiness under Hondas bitumen pad there to be sure.
yeah, that scared me. I think mine is pretty good so far. I'm taking off the quarter panels too. I am going to wire brush it down to metal and see what has been repaired just like You and Hazwan do.
The upper mounting rod bushing certainly has a hard life, I filled mine with Urethane windscreen adhesive. The forces it transfers to the firewall upon harsh gearshifts are audible..
Glad to hear someone else did this. Wasn't sure how it would turn out. On my 99 prelude, I put poly inserts in the motor mounts and it was super intense. I took 2 of the 3 out and found the balance i desired. I knew this was an all in move, but i hoped it was a relatively safe risk. Figured I could do this for about $10, using something like windscreen adhesive and a caulking gun.
Hazwan
11-08-2014, 01:13 AM
Damn the coolant passages look super clean for its age. I am so used to seeing old rusty coolant in all cars I worked on.
Most people would have snapped the thermostat housing bolt(s) by now and I believe the gasket around the thermostat is what seals the housing to the cylinder head. Yours might be hardened up
Keep us updated with more pics!
JSmythe
02-08-2015, 07:35 PM
Sold my SUV, I decided to go all in on 1 accord. I like the hatch better, so gray will be the donor. When I am done with him I will sell off parts and then scrap him.
Saturday Laundry list of items: Swapped Distributor, Plugs, Wires, Coil, Fuel Pump, and entire Rear Brake assemblies from gray to blue. Bled the brakes. Swapped All Rims, Finished installing Transmission (added oil and fixed a couple plugs, crimped spindle nuts).
Sunday List: Toubleshot starting Issues: Distributor was off by 1 place, Crane Cam ignition was not grounded properly, After so many tries the Spark Plugs were flooded and dirty (needed a wire scrub and regapping), Fuel pump died (Lesson learned, when your car sits, prime your pump and make sure not to run it empty. I got a universal gravity fed pump for $50 from O'reilly), Retro fit 1980 sedan Coolant Pipe (There's a whole story on this one), retrofit 1980 sedan radiator (fix one coolant leak and find a busted radiator - The oil cooler makes this one fun), Swapped some wires for the temp control/sensors. Pumped tires up with a bike pump.
What's left? Needs a battery, Need to get speedometer working, need to figure out why the tachometer won't seat in the PowerSteering transmission top. Need to trouble shoot the fans not coming on. need to put 1 headlight in. Need to swap the interior (as much as possible) and figure out how to get them to behave like hatch seats. (maybe retrofit the ashtrays into the seat backs.
I think there's more, but I'm so tired and can't remember. ( I have like 20 hrs into it this weekend.)
http://youtu.be/rOoIAivTUIY
Got two issues to solve on the carb, but i have a weber in the garage, so i will deal with that when the time comes on the weber. I have to keep on the gas until it's warmed up, or it dies. Also, I think the previous owner has the idle set to like 2000 rpms. It's up there. Until I get the tach working, i won't mess with the idle though.
http://youtu.be/U7uC-2_f6fI
JSmythe
02-10-2015, 10:08 AM
Got Blue registered and title is on the way (Rush order, in case my pal John still wants to buy it in it's upgraded state).
Fixed the wiring on the headlights and I'm going to take it to certification tomorrow on the way to work. My state requires a road-ready certification for like $5. Way better than CA smog. At this point she will be a legal daily driver for my 10 mile round trip commute to work.
Took her 75mph in 4th on the freeway and she had a lot left. Gauges are all fixed and working. I am curious if the tranny I have is geared for freeway cruising, it was advertised as an 81, but all the posts I read said this car won't go 90mph.
Pretty sure that the thermostat was stuck open or removed, as it runs super cool and take a long time for that temp gauge to move. Might be related to the previous owners cooling system leaks. They're all repaired now, so i might have to change that out.
Clutch release is very high up on the pedal, i think i will adjust that. Where does your guys' engage? 1/2 way? I don't want to take this tranny off again.
Still need to replace the oil pan gasket, as it drips about 5 drops after I park, no clue how much while Im driving. Dip stick says not much. Lucky I have a spare, i can clean and prep and do a quick swap when the time is right.
Hopefully I will find some time this weekend to get the heater core working and swap over some of the interior from Gray and get the stereo working.
Lastly, I will take a stab at adjusting the keihn, but if that doesn't work, I am a $35 adapter plate away from putting my weber on. I like the idea of a bike cable as a manual choke on this car. It wouldn't be hard to rig, considering the spare parts I have on gray. The door lock cables would function well for this use.
79cord
02-11-2015, 09:43 PM
Wow, lots of progress. Congratulations.
So was your '80' late enough to be considered '81 model year? Not sure of it but I thought Radiator mounts differed for '81 which would have made swapping them harder, & thought additional engine oil cooler was only for '81 Hondamatics (here, though CVCC head probably needed it more). {or the Pwr steer oil cooler}.
'81 Floor/seat mounting changes might make swapping seats & carpet between the two a little harder as well. I think the slightly higher '81 seating position takes a bit of getting used to as well. Not sure how easy it might be for an '81, but I fitted '86-9 Integra seats into my '79 which sit about 1" lower, wrap around you a little better & were available in dark blue velour.
Hope the heater tap is ok, mounted over feet on RHDrive models you quickly find out when they fail. Fan speed Resistor coils located on interior fan housing may fail as well.
4th gear probably faster than 5th gear, since 5th more for lower revs while cruising where it may not reach peak power for top speed. Should be capable of a bit over 90mph with time & space. Wouldn't have thought there would have been too much of a gearing difference '79-81.
JSmythe
02-13-2015, 04:07 PM
Wow, lots of progress. Congratulations.
So was your '80' late enough to be considered '81 model year? Not sure of it but I thought Radiator mounts differed for '81 which would have made swapping them harder, & thought additional engine oil cooler was only for '81 Hondamatics (here, though CVCC head probably needed it more). {or the Pwr steer oil cooler}.
'81 Floor/seat mounting changes might make swapping seats & carpet between the two a little harder as well. I think the slightly higher '81 seating position takes a bit of getting used to as well. Not sure how easy it might be for an '81, but I fitted '86-9 Integra seats into my '79 which sit about 1" lower, wrap around you a little better & were available in dark blue velour.
Hope the heater tap is ok, mounted over feet on RHDrive models you quickly find out when they fail. Fan speed Resistor coils located on interior fan housing may fail as well.
4th gear probably faster than 5th gear, since 5th more for lower revs while cruising where it may not reach peak power for top speed. Should be capable of a bit over 90mph with time & space. Wouldn't have thought there would have been too much of a gearing difference '79-81.
You're right, the mounts on the radiator weren't the same, but I managed to get it going.
Seats too. Some of the progress pics: Before and after foam/upholstery swap. In case anyone wondered, the sedan seats are 3-4inches wider than the hatch. Super happy with how it turned out.
Before:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59800/10951421_10100210571570367_5627708439074924290_n.j pg
After:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59800/10377606_10100210571580347_7007860823194869312_n.j pg
Dr_Snooz
02-13-2015, 06:06 PM
Seats look great!
JSmythe
03-30-2015, 06:48 PM
I sold Blue last month. He's going to get a retro-mod. New owner is very happy to have him and I am glad to see him go to a good home. He will be missed. Gray had usable parts removed and the chasis was sold for scrap. I am now driving an 88 CRX. It reminds me a lot of blue. same weight, same power.
I will say this. The Accord community rocks. You guys are super nice and helpful. Always felt welcome and like you were all here to help me succeed. The CRX people I have talked to, met and seen on Facebook are crude, rude and selfish people. No patience and no mentoring. I am going to miss you guys and the 1st gen accord Facebook group.
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