PDA

View Full Version : INSTALLING / ADAPTING A 2BBL OR 4BBL CARB OTHER THAN WEBER



shepherd79
10-12-2002, 11:52 AM
ok,
i am gonna do this project. my friend's dad has 2 barel holly from his truck. he doesn't need anymore, he's got 4bbr.
anyway, my friend is going to make me adapter from aluminum.
so what do you think? is it worth it?
oh one more thing. how tall is the weber carb?
i am gonna try to go without cutting the hood for clearence.

Site
10-12-2002, 12:43 PM
"so what do you think? is it worth it?"

Absolutely! You could be the first Holley powered 3Gee! Can you find the carb here: http://www.carbs.net/holstart.htm to give us an idea of which one you're talking about?

shepherd79
10-12-2002, 07:29 PM
i haven't seen the carb myself. i just know he has it.
i will get it tomorrow.

dXsquared
10-12-2002, 08:16 PM
i put a four barrel on a 1982 ford escort! it had no throttle response... that was a bush car for me when i couldnt legaly drive!!!

Travis
PS i didnt keep the holley on i switched back to the little two barrel!~

shepherd79
10-13-2002, 04:39 AM
why didn't you have trottle response?
what was the carb too big or what?
i am gonna go with 2barrel. it is ford factory carb. so i am guessing may be 350 - 450 cfm max.

A20A1
10-13-2002, 10:53 AM
The venturi's are one of the main problems with larger carbs... as well as the jets... and not all jets can be removed on holleys.

I think the smaller the venturi the easier the fuel can be delivered.


LOOK UP:

Over carburetion
thats basicly why he got no throttle response.

250cfm - 300cfm is what you should be looking for though.

you could however turn a 3bbl into a 4bbl if each barrels fuel circuits are independent.

close off one of the primarys and all of it's jets.

shepherd79
10-13-2002, 11:55 AM
ok here is what i got. i just picked up this carb.
this is Motorcraft D4TE-HA carb. was available for almost any V8 ford engine.
http://webpages.shepherd.edu/abetke01/mycar/carb.jpg
http://webpages.shepherd.edu/abetke01/mycar/carb2.jpg
http://webpages.shepherd.edu/abetke01/mycar/carb3.jpg

shepherd79
10-13-2002, 12:00 PM
i just did a search and found out that it is 350-360cfm.
is it going to be too much?

ford also made 200cfm which is not enough, i think our engines would need at least 230cfm.
it has 1.21" venturies and 1.56" bore.
it says that it will need 8.5psi fuel pressure, but my friend's dad says it doesn't matter my pump should handle it.

Hey mike (a20a1) can you post the dimentions of the adapter plate for the weber. thanks.

it came from '75 ford truck 1/2 ton with 360 engine.

A20A1
10-13-2002, 12:18 PM
which adapter plate?

the weber may have the same bolt pattern but the spacing whould be different... I was looking onto a 2bbl to 4bbl adapter plate to see if I could add that ontop of the weber plate.

the studs need about a 5/16" hole
the spacing of the weber studs are about:
1 - 13/16" left to right
3 - 11/16" front to back

A20A1
10-13-2002, 12:19 PM
I made the measurement from the center of each stud

shepherd79
10-13-2002, 12:28 PM
read the info on the carb above.

A20A1
10-13-2002, 12:49 PM
350 is too much
but 200 CFM is better then our keihins 180 CFM


problem with high CFM is if the engine isn't pulling 300 cfm the carb wont get the proper vacuum signals, and then it just makes the carb useless.

shepherd79
10-13-2002, 03:15 PM
i will try this carb, and if it won't work i can always get another one from junk yard.

Site
10-13-2002, 03:21 PM
"i will try this carb, and if it won't work i can always get another one from junk yard."

Sweet! Man, that's the way to do it. Why not give stuff a try and if it doesn't work, see if you can MAKE it work. If all else fails, just put things back the way they were.

I'm pumped about following your progress on this.

A20A1
10-14-2002, 12:10 PM
I saw a 250 CFM 2bbl TBI... not sure where though.

It came with the programable ECU and software.

shepherd79
10-14-2002, 03:12 PM
hmmm, that may be interesting.

anyway, here is what i thought about adapter plates.
I would use the Honda to weber adapter, than i would use holley to weber (i will have to flip that one). just bolt them together.
this way if i want i can use weber.
anyway, how thick is the adapter from honda to weber?
i droped the motorcraft carb on the intake and it has like at least good 4 inches without any plate.
i hope adapter plates won't take much room.
oh yeah, i found 250cfm motorcraft on ebay.
but i won't buy it untill i have this one running.

shepherd79
10-14-2002, 04:02 PM
OK here is what i have come up.
this is stock intake.
and you can see that intake has diff barrels sizes.
http://webpages.shepherd.edu/abetke01/mycar/intake2.jpg

but this is what i am wanna do.
make the primary about the same size may be a little bigger, secondary will become bigger too.

http://webpages.shepherd.edu/abetke01/mycar/intake.jpg

what do you think?

the other idea i have is to get rid of the middle part that separates the to barrels. it has the wall inside the intake. i would take that one out too.
what do you think about this idea?
i am looking for logical answers.
thanks guys.

A20A1
10-14-2002, 09:02 PM
It's a little less than 1" high with all the gaskets.

A20A1
10-14-2002, 09:08 PM
That would make a single plenum manifold... or a single stage rather.

You'll lose some low end torque and HP but the top end should be better. Then factor in the height of all the adapter plates and you increase the plenum volume and regain some low end again.

If you get rid of the center wall might as well bore out the entire center to a square like shape... I'll use your pic and modify it.

it's a good idea to plug that coolant passage that was drilled in the top right corner above the primary barrel.

A20A1
10-14-2002, 09:48 PM
Here you go
I labled it just in case someone want's parts identified later on

shepherd79
10-15-2002, 04:06 AM
sweet,
that is what i thought when i was looking at the manifold.
do we really need that many manifold vacuum tap.
can i get rid of the two in each side and keep the one on the back?
what about the coolant line? do we need it? or i can block it too.
thanks mike.

shepherd79
10-15-2002, 04:08 AM
so it should be around 2" high. i think i should have enough room for the air cleaner. if not, jig saw here i came.

A20A1
10-15-2002, 10:36 PM
if you don't hook up the coolant line expect cold start problems to last a lot longer... 10 - 15 minuets.
Without choke it usualy lasts just 5 minuets.

You can bypass the manifold heater by using a long cooloant line from the water pump pipe to the thermostat housing.

then you'll need to remove the intake manifold and plug the small hose that comes off the center of the water pipe and connects to the base plate of the carb.

shepherd79
10-16-2002, 03:58 AM
no, i think i will keep the intake coolant but i will remove the one that goes to the carb.

A20A1
10-16-2002, 05:41 PM
just use the vacuum tap in the back.

Grant2k
10-16-2002, 06:29 PM
sorry, i have never had my carb totally off, is that the stock intake maniold? hopefully a DGV is in my future so i am trying to learn.

A20A1
10-16-2002, 06:50 PM
yes... look at my web site to see more pics of the intake manifold with the weber adapter plate. :D

Grant2k
10-17-2002, 08:29 AM
mike, i have been there before, but you gotta keep a link to your site in your signiture. but don't worry, i have been there plenty of times.

Site
10-17-2002, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by A20A1
if you don't hook up the coolant line expect cold start problems to last a lot longer... 10 - 15 minuets.
Without choke it usualy lasts just 5 minuets.

You can bypass the manifold heater by using a long cooloant line from the water pump pipe to the thermostat housing.

then you'll need to remove the intake manifold and plug the small hose that comes off the center of the water pipe and connects to the base plate of the carb.

That's exactly what I had to do to install the DCOEs. Man, getting the manifold off is a beast, and puttin it back on is just as much fun. LOL.

Grant2K, if you click on this button that's at the bottom of his post it will take you to his homepage:

Grant2k
10-17-2002, 12:50 PM
it's not working Site. but thanks for the try. could you just paste the url in a post or something? or use the hyperlink thing up there. thanks.

A20A1
10-17-2002, 02:38 PM
http://www.geocities.com/accord89lx/index.html


http://www.geocities.com/accord89lx/Carbtech.html

Grant2k
10-17-2002, 05:23 PM
thanks.

A20A1
10-27-2002, 12:11 AM
Good news :D


Air Valve Secondaries (Vacuum Secondary)

Many factory carbs use an air valve to open the secondaries. There are the usual throttle plates that open mechanically, but a second set of plates is opened based on air demand. The mechanical throttle plates assure that the secondaries are closed when engine braking.
To put it simply, air pulls the secondaries open. There must be some form of resistance to control the opening rate. Rochester Quadrajet’s and Holley Economizers use a simple spring, the stiffer the spring, the slower they will open.
Since they open with air demand, they will not open fully if the engine is not pulling in enough air, so an overly large carburetor can work just fine.


so you should have no problems running a progressive carb with high CFM. but a Synchonous will cause the vacuum signal to drop along the venturis... you lean out and there goes your power.

HondaBoy
12-14-2002, 11:25 PM
im wondering if i can get a holley or edelbrock 4BBL to work with my engine. i mean i know they have a adapter to make a 2BBL mani to fit a 4BBL. but my real question is, would that work. my friend has a carb, but its a 4BBL. i wanna try this. but u think it would work?

A20A1
12-15-2002, 01:16 AM
you need the adapter plate from the weber kit then you need a 2bbl to 4bbl adapter... with all the plates on... anycarb you use will hit the hood. if it's a 4bbl with a vacuum secondary it might work... if it has a mechanical secondary i don't think it would run verry well.

tigeraid
12-15-2002, 12:48 PM
you may also want to note that, for the most part, the smallest 4bbl carb you can get, from Holley, is 600 cfm in a square bore mechanical design -- you'd be lucky if the engine even started, let alone ran well. There's a reason those carbs are designed for 300+ cubic inch v8s.

dXsquared
12-15-2002, 12:51 PM
well... ur not completely correct... i have seen many -300 CI motors with a four barrel. how about the 3.8 liter V6? thats like a 230 CI and it runs with a 600 CFM no prob!

Travis

but i agree... NO 4BBL on our cars!

1989 DX R
12-15-2002, 02:22 PM
Well, not entirely true, as the Weber DCOE carbs are two 2bbl carbs in effect.

If he had a mad cam, and major porting, he could run 500cfm easy.

shepherd79
12-15-2002, 04:00 PM
you know, i think all that CFM limitation for our cars is big bullshit.
if people drop bigger carbs on V8 and they run better why can't we drop bigger on ours.
we all know the formula. if you take 302ci engine and calculate that it will come up with some thing like 500cfm carb i think. i don't remember.
but i know people who run 750cfm carb on 302ci and it is running just fine.
plus look at weber sidedrafters they putt way more than 300cfm for sure.
i would say go for it.
you can get honda-weber adapter plate and than if you find a plate from weber to holley you should be set.
i am working on 2 bbr 350cfm myselft right now. i ran into one problem, i can't find holley to weber adapter plate.

A20A1
12-16-2002, 06:23 PM
the best thing you can do is get the carb... even if it's 600 cfm you can enlarge the primary and secondary booster venturies to cause more restriction thus it will pull out gas better and keep the carb response high.
Then as the demand increases the vacuum will open the secondaries, it may not open enough to pull the full 600cfm but it will meet the demand of the engine for sure.

...assuming holley does have swapable boosters in the correct size

DigitaLuminescence
01-15-2003, 12:09 PM
What are all of the companies that make carbs for our Accords? I've got a 88 LX Auto... which ones will work with that model and type?

I was told that some of the carburators will only work with standard (manual) transmissions... is that true? Will I have to get another Accy or swap the trans.?

A20A1
01-15-2003, 02:25 PM
Weber is the only one... and even then we are limited to the 32/36 and 38 for an easy conversion. Otherwise excpect to pay extra for making custom manifolds to use bigger and better carbs (weber or mikuni).

shepherd79
01-15-2003, 02:37 PM
ok, ok,
i know that mikuni was bought out by keihin. is you look on ebay you can get keihin sidedrafters, and they are cheaper too.
so i was wondering what is the diff between mikuni and keihin sidedrafters?

A20A1
01-15-2003, 03:29 PM
Really? when did keihin buy out mikuni?

dXsquared
01-15-2003, 03:43 PM
i mikuni carbs on my sled!

Travis

A20A1
01-15-2003, 03:50 PM
yeah a lot of the carbs they make are for small engines, stuff like sport bikes.

shepherd79
01-16-2003, 04:29 AM
so do the keihin carbs work as good as mikuni?
i mean in tuning wise.

A20A1
01-16-2003, 12:16 PM
Well if you can find the carbs... then try and see how easy it would be for you to get the right size jets and venturis... if the parts are easy to find and buy then get the keihin. Most carbs are based on the same design so they should all perform about the same once tuned right.

Mike's89AccordLX
01-16-2003, 12:24 PM
I love my weber 32/36.

DigitaLuminescence
01-16-2003, 04:07 PM
What kind of horsepower/torque advantage would I be recieving with each? (especially the weber)

And doesn't Holley make a carburator setup for an Accord? Or maybe it was just a universal main body.

shepherd79
01-16-2003, 05:12 PM
holley remanufactures the Keihin stock carb.
Weber is most popular one.
As for HP/torque gains, no one with weber did any dyno runs so we don't know what is capable of doing.
Mikuni and keihin (sidedraft) carbs are just little one barrel carbs, so you will need 4 of them for each cylinder.
they give nice performace gains, but as i said no one knows how much HP do they give.

A20A1
04-08-2003, 11:17 PM
so i think

shepherd79
04-09-2003, 04:20 AM
this carb is ready to be installed, i just need to figure out the throttle linkage.
the problem is that this carb is Synchonous. it is 350cfm, so i know it will flood my engine. i need to find just like this one but with smaller jets. there was 250cfm one from early mustangs.

DLB
08-28-2004, 07:02 PM
Hey guys i was just thinking isn't the holley 5200 carb pretty much the equivalent to the weber 32/36. Has anyone here tryed to put one of them on there car? If so is it better than the weber?

A20A1
08-28-2004, 10:59 PM
230 cfm... yeah that seems about where the 32/36 is.

Shepherd79 adapted a 2bbl to the accord... you should upgrade the pump though to a holley red or blue with the regulator.

edit aslo check out this thread. http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=26911

.