Niles' Coilover Thread

[niles]

Hey All,

I am upgrading from cut springs to actual coilovers.

Backstory: I did a lot of appearance work to my car two years ago; dent & rust removal, shaved molding, body kit, plasti-dip (not recommended), and lowering.

I am an average person so my budget didn't allow for proper lowering at the time, or proper paint job. I got by with the cut springs for the last two years. But they were always too soft, which required the install of extra bump-stops in the front, and the nasty road conditions that plague the USA causing me to constantly be on pot-hole alert! I also noticed the rear springs were starting to sag after many camping and road trips.

Present Day: I decided to try out the eBay brand coilover of the 1990 Accord variety. I was very surprised at the quality, and therefore I will not be using them. But I would like to discuss my findings from the 'Bay.

The only time any seller would list the spring rate it was always 250 lbs, and I would never buy something that lists no specs. But come on, 250 lbs front AND rear? That seemed weird. I bought them anyway because they were only $47 (red flag)

When I received them, I was excited. I tore open the box and let out a big WTF!?!? The threads on these coilovers are nearly non-existant. There was no way I was going to be flying down the freeway with these bad boys on all four of my wheels.

The Saga Continues: So I turned back to the net. Ironically, also on eBay I found Megan Racing coilovers for $130 and I thought, "Wow, if I had only searched a little harder the first time!" So I immediately snatched them up. Part number MR-CO-HA90.

Excitedly I also tore into this box immediately. To my surprise, the threads on the coilover sleeves were also lacking. This is causing me to rethink how much thread is necessary to properly support a vehicle. Anyway, I am at least more confident with a company that has a reputation to uphold - so I am going to install them.

Pics Section:

Cut Springs
Now that I have removed my old rear springs I can see that I cut the wrong side of the spring. :facepalm: I cut the linear side, when I should have cut the progressive side. (I was a full-tard two years ago) I am not sure how many coils I cut off, but after two years I could barely fit one finger between my wheel and fender.

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0577_zpscstcym6g.jpg

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0157_zpsdxikvueg.jpg

Next Post: eBay Coilovers

[niles]

eBay Brand Coilovers

Packaging = none. It shipped in a USPS box. I did insist on a USA seller, but mostly because I didn't want to wait for a boat from China. I can imagine these being imported loosely in a massive crate like how fruit comes from an orchard.

Here is the promo picture:

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/7/8/8/5/1/0/webimg/741989583_o.jpg

Here is the box they came in.

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0562_zpszxow3ygu.jpg

The kit was at least complete.

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0552_zpsaxo0wvw0.jpg

Check out these threads. Can you see them even? I had to feel them with my finger just so my brain knew they were there!

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0561_zpsgggzzgrp.jpg

The springs themselves looked meh, I mean, what is there to say about mystery springs. I have no way to test them.

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0556_zpsvdvc6dqm.jpg

Next Post: Megan Racing Coilovers

[niles]

Megan Racing Coilovers

The quality difference between $50 and $130 is painfully obvious. It came in real packaging, labeled even! The labeling is because in the Megan kit the front spring is longer than the rear, and the spring rates are different too. The front coils are rated at 450 lbs and the rear is 350 lbs. They've got that sexy brand name printed right on the coil too.

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0563_zps7fvwqqay.jpg

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0564_zpsey8quwaz.jpg

The kit itself is quite similar looking to the cheaper kit, because after all, they are the same thing. But you can see the difference in quality I think.

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0565_zpsqtelwhb0.jpg

One difference is that the Megan kit comes with centering screws to keep the coilover sleeve centered around the shock. Even though the o-rings do a really good job of keeping them in place.

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0566_zpsfugqld0a.jpg

The adjusting wrench in the Megan kit is also much thicker than the eBay wrench.

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0571_zps9dwwjwf0.jpg

Now, as you see here, the threads are also quite lacking IMO. And I feel the promotional pictures for this kit make it appear as if the threads have more bite to them so I do feel a little mislead. At least the eBay brand doesn't pretend to be more than it is.

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0568_zpsxhxyfu4h.jpg

Coil assembly: I read that some people buy a giant washer to place at the bottom of the coilover sleeve. I didn't. Feel free to scald me for doing so, but I didn't see a need as the sleeve fit rather nicely in the bottom of the old spring perch.

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0575_zpsiuk7x7af.jpg

After a little adjusting I got my ride height in a way better (IMO) position. I like the symmetry of having an even gap all around the tire, vs. full-on tucked look. Plus I'm rockin' 15" rims so that would look a little silly (IMO IMO)

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0576_zpsv3slhieh.jpg

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/DSC_0578_zps7d28wiaw.jpg

Next to come: I will do the front install when time allows. This is still my only car and daily driver so I will do it when I do it. But I do already have the Moog camber adjusters to fix my front camber. I'm adding 1.25 degrees back on using part # K90142.

Side Note: To adjust your camber with Moog's adjusters, you need to buy four of them (wrong). So it cost me almost $100 for four bolts! And it appears to be that they only drop-ship directly from Moog, so expect delays in getting it, like two week ground shipping time (to Oregon).

EDIT: ONLY ONE ADJUSTER PER SIDE IS NEEDED!! Read the instructions before doing the work.

The part is sold as a kit, but what they mean is the kit includes this. If I had known that beforehand I would've just got the Prelude arms.

http://www.rockauto.com/info/Moog/K90142_TOP.jpg

[MessyHonda]

Good write up. Makes me want to redo mine like yours. The spring rates are too stiff for stock shocks. I'm running 430 front and 315 rear on koni yellow shocks. I used Ground control Coil overs the threads look the same.

[niles]

Good write up. Makes me want to redo mine like yours. The spring rates are too stiff for stock shocks. I'm running 430 front and 315 rear on koni yellow shocks. I used Ground control Coil overs the threads look the same.

Interesting about the thread size. I thought the velocity of something like a pothole would tear the threads right off! But I must be underestimating the strength of the aluminum.

I am a little worried about the spring rates pounding my shocks. I am running the KYB GR2 shocks. They claim 20% increase in stiffness over stock. But since I have only the rear coilovers installed so far, I couldn't really claim the shocks ability to handle the spring rates.

But the rear of the car certainly feels amazing compared to riding the cut springs. Very excited to see how the front improves.

[Dr_Snooz]

Interesting about the thread size. I thought the velocity of something like a pothole would tear the threads right off! But I must be underestimating the strength of the aluminum.

It's amazing when you think how small the threads on any bolt are, relative to the amount of weight they have to carry. It's remarkable to me that they don't fail.

Very nice work you're doing here.

[niles]

It's amazing when you think how small the threads on any bolt are, relative to the amount of weight they have to carry. It's remarkable to me that they don't fail.

Very nice work you're doing here.

After taking apart all the suspension parts for various reasons, and seeing how it is all connected. It is a wonder that you don't hear about more instances of cars simply falling apart while going down the road.

The nut and bolt should be up there amongst human's greatest achievements!

[2oodoor]

So you're saying screwing is the fortitude of all humanity...

[niles]

Its what we're good at :)

[Dr_Snooz]

*Groan*

[niles]

Whelp, last night I installed the front coilovers. I can confirm all the issues Oldblueaccord had with the Moog camber adjusters, they do not fit: http://www.3geez.com/forum/suspension-wheels-tires-brakes/76951-moog-k90207-camber-adjuster-problem.html

I had to do a little filing, some hammering, and eventually I used the nut to pull the stud up through the hole from the top - which put the threads at risk (thank you anti-seize). Not cool Moog. It made the job take at least twice as long as it should.

I read one persons comment on Oldblueaccord's thread that each side only needs one adjuster in the front position of the control arm. Is that true? I put two on each side, because to me it seems like replacing all four studs was the correct application. Can anyone comment on that?

I still need to do some height adjustment today, but overall I approve of the new spring stiffness. At the moment the 3gee rides lower in the front than before, but bottoms out less.

EDIT: ONLY ONE ADJUSTER PER SIDE IS NEEDED

[Oldblueaccord]

Just for kicks you should email Moog or call them. I was entertained to say the least.

I am assuming you are "correcting" the negative camber from lowering?

I run about -2 degrees all around and I don't have any problems but im not lowered at all.

[niles]

Just for kicks you should email Moog or call them. I was entertained to say the least.

I am assuming you are "correcting" the negative camber from lowering?

I run about -2 degrees all around and I don't have any problems but im not lowered at all.

I might email Moog to raise awareness a little more, since the part seems to be 3gee specific. But I avoid talking on the phone like the plague.

You assumed correctly. My camber was way negative, so I pushed it back out by 1 1/4 degrees. I won't quote how far negative it was before because the alignment shop I go to is old school, no lasers or robots lol, so each time I go the numbers vary a little bit from the manual measurements. I am still negative, but much less than before.

Still working on getting all the wheels equal. Wish I had a set of scales to use.

[niles]

So I spent the evening correcting my camber adjustment setup. I should really start reading the instructions closely before doing work. It appears only one adjuster per side is needed.

Now I have to find all my comments about how many are needed and edit them for accuracy. Good thing I haven't paid for an alignment yet! Sure did shorten the life of my tires though DAG NABBIT.


http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/21feb723-d6f6-425c-9736-f9345cd305b2_zpswhokfetv.jpg

[cygnus x-1]

That's interesting. Having an adjuster only on one side would allow for camber adjustment, but it would also have some effect on the caster. This would be ok as long as it doesn't affect it too much.

C|

[niles]

That's interesting. Having an adjuster only on one side would allow for camber adjustment, but it would also have some effect on the caster. This would be ok as long as it doesn't affect it too much.

C|
Yeah, with two adjusters on the control arm the wheel sat at a really weird angle and chewed through my inner tread in about 100 miles. With one adjuster in the front position the wheel looks much more normal.

I wish I could show in a picture how the two setups differed but it was too subtle and really only could be seen by eyeballing.

I have an alignment appointment today. Eager to see what they have to say.

[Oldblueaccord]

Well I ran two,front and back, so I guess I cant read instructions to well either. But i never have had any problems with tire wear or anything else.

You alignment numbers will change a little every time you check. Its just the way the suspension sits on the rack. Nothing wrong with an old school alignment rack. The best machines still are the Hunters.

I run about -2 degrees at stock height so maybe thats too much with a 2.0" drop?

Im sure someplace around you can corner weight your car. Call that dude we talked about see if he can do it :naughty::naughty:

[niles]

I'm sure either way is fine, I'm thinking that maybe my knucke is bent on the side that ate the tire. The alignment results were all good except the driver's front. They say its -2.5 when the right side is -0.5

[Fixedit]

How is your setup working? I'm looking for peoples' opinions on the best stance "performance" wise, as in what spec has gained the most handling, lowering-wise.

Also I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to make these work on a 3g
http://www.racelandus.com/coilovers/honda-coilover-kits/honda-accord-5th-gen-coilovers.html

It's the oldest gen raceland has, and the specs are a little low compared to yours. 340lbs front and 285lbs rear

[niles]

I am still enjoying my setup quite a bit. The shocks do seem slightly soft but that's why people like to get more expensive shocks that can be re-valved. But with my gr2 shocks my hatch recovers quickly from a huge bump and corners quite well.

I believe my lowered setup performs on par with OEM suspension in good condition. (Which I think says a lot compared to other coilovers)

I don't think I would go any lower without installing stiffer springs and shocks.

To be honest, if you're wanting performance you should save for something like Ksport full coilovers.

With the link you posted, something is a little fishy about them. It looks like full coilovers with shocks. Never seen that without spending much more. Also I'm not sure if the 5gee suspension is a match. You can use the coilover springs from a 4gee butnot the shocks. The shock lengths are different I believe.

[niles]

I'm sure either way is fine, I'm thinking that maybe my knucke is bent on the side that ate the tire. The alignment results were all good except the driver's front. They say its -2.5 when the right side is -0.5

Update on the alignment, the camber is so far off on the drivers side because that tire is the wrong size - too large. Just found out today.

[Tdurr]

explain that? what size is the tire compared to the others?