Gas smell in cabin

[ryan427]

3G has been a challenge this week. Almost threw a wrench through my satellite dish. Not proud of that.

Anyway, when I get in the car in the morning or after short trips in town, I smell gas fumes. Not terribly strong but enough to notice. Anyone ever deal with that? It's an 89 LX. I'm thinking saturated vapor canister, faulty purge valve, or fuel pump gasket (which means odor would be coming from the rear). Any wisdom would be appreciated. Lest I throw another wrench.


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[ryan427]

By the way I meant to say that I smell gas in the cabin. No gas smell as I am approaching the car or right outside. Hits me when I sit down in the driver seat.


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[carotman]

Lift the carpet on the left side of the car near the door sills. You will need to remove the dor sills. The fuel line passes there. It could be rusted and leaking a tiny bit. Pay a special attention to the front part where it goes up against the firewall. This is a known place for them to rust.

[ryan427]

Lift the carpet on the left side of the car near the door sills. You will need to remove the dor sills. The fuel line passes there. It could be rusted and leaking a tiny bit. Pay a special attention to the front part where it goes up against the firewall. This is a known place for them to rust.

All dry and no rust. I should have mentioned, the smell goes away shortly after starting it up. I think the problem is that vapors (not actual fuel) are getting in to the cabin while the engine is off. With the engine on, no vapors and no smell in the cabin whatsoever. That is kind of why I suspect the charcoal canister. I know those canisters are pricey though so really hoping it is simpler than that. Will keep at it.

[Dr_Snooz]

My first Accord (a '76) used to have the same smell. Unless it really bothers you, there's no need replace the canister. It's just a smog thing. You can also do some basic troubleshooting to be sure there isn't a faulty check valve or some other thing going on: Charcoal canister: maintenance and repair | Mechanical /Maintenance Forum | Bob Is The Oil Guy (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2367070)

Beyond that, you might check the condition of your rubber fuel lines. They can get old, hard and leaky. Remember that there are lines from the top of the tank to the rear fuel filter, as well as what's in the engine bay.

[ryan427]

Well, I continue to have the faint gas odor but it is also coupled with flooding. Drives like a dream on the open road but after about 30 seconds of idling (stop light, parking lot, whatever) RPM's drop and engine wants to sputter out. Strong gas smell under the hood and peeking down the top of the carb reveals pooling of fuel. Boo. So, I am pretty certain that is why I am smelling gas in the cabin from time to time. Enough with this original carburetor... 26 years and 270k miles. No amount of profanity will make it better. So I bit the bullet and ordered a remanufactured carb from import carburetors (https://www.guaranteedcarburetors.com/). I thought about a Weber but I really want to keep this car as original as possible. I called and spoke to a gentleman from this company over the phone. He went in to some pretty good detail about how he rebuilds these things. He seems like he knows what's up and also gave me the impression that he is very meticulous. I am not endorsing this company at this time but I can tell you I feel pretty confident after calling them. Total with shipping (and return of core) was $240.00. I am somewhat confident in my ability to remove and replace it myself. More famous last words. I'll probably reach out when I hit a snag.

[airporter]

I had my 89 carburetor overhauled a year ago @ import carbs. They did a good job...... I bolted it on and it fired right up. I didn't have to adjust anything on the carb.
I would also order the two gaskets from them along with the rebuilt carb. There are more than two different carbs ( and gaskets ) for your Honda. I know because I ordered the wrong O-ring gasket from another place.
Make a diagram of your carb and where all the vacuum hoses go.

[ryan427]

I had my 89 carburetor overhauled a year ago @ import carbs. They did a good job...... I bolted it on and it fired right up. I didn't have to adjust anything on the carb.
I would also order the two gaskets from them along with the rebuilt carb. There are more than two different carbs ( and gaskets ) for your Honda. I know because I ordered the wrong O-ring gasket from another place.
Make a diagram of your carb and where all the vacuum hoses go.

Interesting. I ordered the new base gasket from them. But, a second gasket? Where?

[airporter]

Look on page 11-16 of the service manual. It shows the upper O-ring gasket. The second ( not shown on this page ) is underneath the EFE heater. The one underneath the EFE heater on my car was badly deteriorated .... the only thing left was the adhesive that was on and it was very difficult to get that glue off!
There is a diagram on page 9-3 that shows both gaskets.

I got both gaskets from Rock Auto The upper, Fel-pro 60793 did not fit. The lower Fel-pro 60671 did fit. I got another upper gasket from another supplier online.

[ryan427]

Excellent info. Thank you, airporter. I ordered the Fel-pro 60671 for the lower. Honda part number for the upper o ring carb insulator is 16105-PJ7-000 if anyone needs this info. It was a whopping $2.51. I would have been disappointed had I tried to install this carb without having those gaskets. That and I wouldn't be able to get to work...

[ryan427]

Dear, carburetor. Thank you for 26 years of service. You're fired. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/28/e8126b09f26cb9ab84a4bf354f0fadb3.jpg



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[Dr_Snooz]

I had my 89 carburetor overhauled a year ago @ import carbs. They did a good job...... I bolted it on and it fired right up. I didn't have to adjust anything on the carb.

On those Keihin carbs, this is an excellent endorsement. Do we finally have a reliable way of overhauling these carbs? That would be awesome.

[ryan427]

On those Keihin carbs, this is an excellent endorsement. Do we finally have a reliable way of overhauling these carbs? That would be awesome.

I hope so. Will know more tomorrow. Technical question... is an early fuel evaporator (EFE) and primary bore heater the same thing? Pure curiosity...

[ryan427]

Well... Removing the original carburetor was...interesting. I went slow. Hit some snags along the way with hoses and whatnot. I thought about posting a "carburetor removal" thread. Using tips I picked up from this forum helped me more than you would believe! For example, unbolting the vacuum tree and gently pushing it back toward the firewall... Picked that up from my research here.

What's really amazing is the condition of the fuel lines... Completely hard and brittle. Will replace. Also, all the little vacuum hoses you can't really get to with the carb attached are done. Really done. Especially the number 7 hose. It's about 2.5 inches long. Someone had replaced it along the way but it was pinched and too large anyway. Damn it man. Will replace all of those hoses.

The o ring between the bore heater and bottom of the carb was flat and brittle. I'm waiting on the gasket to arrive as the fel-pro one didn't fit as I was warned. I haven't removed the bore heater from the intake yet. I'm slightly scared to do it for fear of damaging something. It seems like it is stuck on there pretty good though.

A few random pics below:
Coaxing the damn thing off:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/01/146c383f7874a0cdc26aaf415ede07e6.jpg

A challenge:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/01/a77ac49f52d2fe2c1a4ed2b4d5b88721.jpg

Difference between the fel pro and factory upper gasket:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/01/b46a0c13fff9a424a784e4ef6d95f214.jpg

Really small cotter pin!
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/01/41be6cefae079a03c7a1b138605c307e.jpg

Gotcha...
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/01/b3d95d740a47e47d1624c9fe74bcbdee.jpg

26 year old upper o ring gasket came out in several pieces:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/01/34999eb764fe8ffe123a086d645dc846.jpg

Intake... Bore heater still attached.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/01/ab823da5575eed0a6215fcd1f3a07590.jpg

There's my old carburetor right there. I'm pointing at it.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/01/a20fbd6251db02865d8d2659c6c004ff.jpg

I'll have to wait until Wednesday to resume. I need to order some vacuum lines etc.


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[ryan427]

Anyone have any tips for removing the heater? It's stuck...

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/02/5612e5b3fbe1519eacd099006a591fa8.jpg


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[Dr_Snooz]

If it's like the '82 carbs, there's another rubber oring gasket like the one on top holding it down. You should be able to release it with some light rocking and wiggling.

For vac lines, just buy a metric ton of new line and that should be half what you need. LOL

Kudos to you for wading into the dangerous Keihin waters.

[ryan427]

If it's like the '82 carbs, there's another rubber oring gasket like the one on top holding it down. You should be able to release it with some light rocking and wiggling.

For vac lines, just buy a metric ton of new line and that should be half what you need. LOL

Kudos to you for wading into the dangerous Keihin waters.

I hear ya... I did something kind of stupid and bought 10 meters of 3.5 mm vac line directly from the Honda dealer. It's the good silicone kind and, the factory size. Taking no prisoners on this one... all those lines are getting replaced. The seal under the heater is a flat type in the shape of the heater itself. Some have told me not to worry about replacing it but my luck dictates that its bad. As far as the Keihin waters, I'm in a little deep but not as much as people who take on rebuilding themselves. Not that brave... yet. But I'll tell you, this car is giving me the opportunity to learn. I'm really enjoying it.

[Dr_Snooz]

I'm in a little deep but not as much as people who take on rebuilding themselves. Not that brave... yet.

Well, when you buy a few bad parts, you'll realize that you're probably smarter and more conscientious than the rebuilders and you'll rebuild everything yourself after that. I've been down that road enough times. Finding a competent rebuilder is a gift from the gods.

[airporter]

Did you get your EFE heater off ? Mine came off real easy.... I used a 1 " putty knife and went around it and it came right off. Very little gasket was stuck to EFE heater...big problem was gasket adhesive that was stuck to manifold. I tried denatured alcohol, etc. Got some CRC gasket remover from Oreillys and scraped it off ....took a while!
Your picture of the two O-ring upper gaskets is exactly what I ended up with. As you said, the Honda part# 16105-PJ7-000 fit.

I also replaced the vacuum hoses. I couldn't figure out a way to mark/ paint the number on them. Couldn't find a stencil that small. I got a Signo white permanent ink pen and it worked pretty good.
Nice pictures!

[ryan427]

Did you get your EFE heater off ? Mine came off real easy.... I used a 1 " putty knife and went around it and it came right off. Very little gasket was stuck to EFE heater...big problem was gasket adhesive that was stuck to manifold. I tried denatured alcohol, etc. Got some CRC gasket remover from Oreillys and scraped it off ....took a while!
Your picture of the two O-ring upper gaskets is exactly what I ended up with. As you said, the Honda part# 16105-PJ7-000 fit.

I also replaced the vacuum hoses. I couldn't figure out a way to mark/ paint the number on them. Couldn't find a stencil that small. I got a Signo white permanent ink pen and it worked pretty good.
Nice pictures!

Man, thank you for the gasket remover recommendation. I don't think I even knew that stuff existed. I've just been trying to tug on it gently (and cursing at it) for fear of damaging something. I'll try the putty knife. I've just been leery about damaging the intake/mating surfaces. I'll be careful. Brilliant suggestion on the Signo pen. I was just googling "labeling vacuum hoses" a few minutes ago. Going to button all of this up tomorrow morning. I'll take a video of the first startup and post here. This way, fire and/or explosions can be witnessed by all. :omg:

[ryan427]

Well... The verdict is in: complete success. Bolted the new/rebuilt carb on, connected the new vacuum lines, new fuel filters, and fuel lines, turned the key on and off three times to prime the pump and presto... fired right up. It stuttered for a few seconds but I think it's because I changed the lines and filters (maybe?). Then, the engine spun up to 2500 RPM's and warmed right up. Video I said I'd post of the first start:
https://vimeo.com/119018067



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[ryan427]

Then something happened... The RPM's dropped and I thought it meant something bad. Nope! Fast idle unloader dropped the idle on its own!!! Another video of the warmed up idle (sorry I sound stuffed up and hoarse):
https://vimeo.com/119018211

And one more while driving:
https://vimeo.com/119019276


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[airporter]

Well, I'm impressed !! Very good job ! ( Import carbs fixed another one )
I see you have 268,000 miles on the car . Its impressive that it still runs.

[Dr_Snooz]

Very cool! It's so nice to know that we have a reliable replacement for those carbs.

[ryan427]

It's remarkable. I'm really impressed with import carburetors. I'm by no means a carb expert so, for a novice like myself to be able to bolt it on and go is amazing. All I had to do was adjust the idle stop screw a bit and that was it. I put 30 miles on it yesterday. Another successful cold start this morning. As for the 268k miles... New valves and cam and many other parts. This new carb is the cherry on top.


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