Oddball electrical action and battery light.

[chaditotx]

Purchased grandmas car.... 1987 Accord Dx 100k original. Unmolested electrically from what I can tell. Replaced alternator a year ago (battery light was on but didn't act like it wasn't charging... bright lights etc and could drive for days.) After alternator installed batt light on for a few miles then went off. Only put about 1500k on this thing over the last 12 mos if that. Went to go crank last week and dead. Jumped it, let it idle for a couple hours. No battery light. The next day I went to start and dead as a door nail. Battery tested bad. While installing new battery, I noticed when the positive terminal (last one I connected) was touched by the positive cable, I could hear a very audible click from the engine compartment. I couldn't really trace where the heck it was coming from but I think it was coming from around the carb area. Ok... weird. Installed battery and started, and ran great.. but idled high for a while... about 2-3 minutes then it began rough idling pretty bad and battery light came on. It died at anything under 1200-1500 rpm and I had to keep my foot on it. Gave up after a 3 mile drive of keeping my foot on the brake and gas at the same time. Next day it started and purred like a kitten, but the battery light is still on but lights are bright and don't seem to dim when I hit brake or turn on a/c or fan. What gives?

Is there a relay or solenoid that if it was stuck in the wrong position would complete a circuit that would make the car behave like this? I haven't removed the battery cable to see if "clicking" condition still exists... but this whole episode is really making me lean toward pulling emissions relays and solenoids and putting a weber on this B!T$h...

[Dr_Snooz]

Without knowing much about it, I'd check the EFE (choke) heater. It can cause a lot of trouble if it goes weird. If you have seatbelts mounted to the doors, they can cause a parasitic battery drain, but that's not usually intermittent. You might also do some proper diagnostics on the charging system. The battery lot should not be coming on randomly and you need to find out what's failing. Everyone wants to do the free charging system tests at the parts store, but, well, you get what you pay for there. The manual outlines several charging system tests that you can do and know with certainty how things are doing. The downside is that you may have to buy some more tools, but the upside is that you may have to buy some more tools! It can also be helpful to install a volt and amp gauge on the dash for realtime monitoring.

[ryan427]

x2 on those diagnostics. Shortly before I was a member, I had the same problem with my 89 LX. Pretty sure it had an Autozone alternator in it. No bueno. Tough lesson for me as it isn't the most pleasant job in the world on our cars.

[chaditotx]

absolutely not pleasant. I installed the alternator on the car as it sits. It was from Oreillys. what a pain. didn't pull the cv axle though. somehow managed to fish it out the passenger side if I remember right. I read that in another thread the choke heater cable came straight off the alternator.... and if the vehicle wasn't charging, the choke stays on. That explains why as it was warming up it was running filthy rich black out the tail pipe. When I do alternator I will check wiring as well. Where is the best place for a good alternator?

[ryan427]

I feel your pain. I have found Napa to be the only reliable source for an alternator for my car. You'd be wise to avoid the rest in my opinion.


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[ryan427]

Also be sure to check your choke pull off.


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[Dr_Snooz]

Where is the best place for a good alternator?

That's the $64 tow bill question, isn't it? A lot of times, the chain stores will sell decent electrics, but they won't offer them to you unless you ask. If you can find someone to sell you a Beck-Arnley, buy it, even if it is Autozone. I might take a flyer on a Bosch (iffy) or an AC Delco, but probably not anyone else. I've had so much trouble getting decent parts from Napa lately that they've scared me off.

[lostforawhile]

absolutely not pleasant. I installed the alternator on the car as it sits. It was from Oreillys. what a pain. didn't pull the cv axle though. somehow managed to fish it out the passenger side if I remember right. I read that in another thread the choke heater cable came straight off the alternator.... and if the vehicle wasn't charging, the choke stays on. That explains why as it was warming up it was running filthy rich black out the tail pipe. When I do alternator I will check wiring as well. Where is the best place for a good alternator?
the choke heater coil runs off of the same wire that runs the idiot light, when the system is charging that wire is a positive 12 volts, when it's not charging it's grounded, when the car is fully warmed up, there should be enough heat in the engine compartment to cause the bimettalic coil to keep the choke opened

[chaditotx]

the choke heater coil runs off of the same wire that runs the idiot light, when the system is charging that wire is a positive 12 volts, when it's not charging it's grounded, when the car is fully warmed up, there should be enough heat in the engine compartment to cause the bimettalic coil to keep the choke opened


That explains if PERFECTLY. Thank you. Yesterday.... started beautifully. drove a few minutes, engine got warm and started chokeing on all that extra fuel and idled like crud. came back in a few minutes and started and ran excellent. I guess the bimetallic spring got heat soaked and opened up the choke while I let it sit.

I am soooo going to do the weber swap and put another alternator in it. It ran really inconsistent with the factory feedback carb set up. Is the WEber the way to go?

[lostforawhile]

pretty much, if you don't have emissions, it's getting harder and harder to keep the feedback system running

[lostforawhile]

That explains if PERFECTLY. Thank you. Yesterday.... started beautifully. drove a few minutes, engine got warm and started chokeing on all that extra fuel and idled like crud. came back in a few minutes and started and ran excellent. I guess the bimetallic spring got heat soaked and opened up the choke while I let it sit.

I am soooo going to do the weber swap and put another alternator in it. It ran really inconsistent with the factory feedback carb set up. Is the WEber the way to go?

on any choke other then a manual, there is a bimettalic coil that actually opens the choke plate, on an electric there is just a heating element that heats it up.

[chaditotx]

on any choke other then a manual, there is a bimettalic coil that actually opens the choke plate, on an electric there is just a heating element that heats it up.

Absolutely of the choke coil. I just cant stand the way this thing runs.... tried all sorts of means and methods to troubleshoot surging etc. I wish there was a 2bbl tbi fuel injection system I could put on it I grew up with carbs.. but detest anything from 1983 on up in a stock car. I loooove my MSD atomic in my 1971 Dodge Demon. it still pulls low 13s with the EFI. Plus I can boost reference control timing etc. I just found a screaming deal on it used. Too bad I can't seem to source any stand alone type throttle body injection four our hondas that is inexpensive. The factory let up from the LXi cars seems cool.. but its way more work than Id like to do.

[ryan427]

You could just replace the choke or convert it to manual. My suggestion though... order a rebuilt carb from Import Carburetors. $240.00 with a lifetime guarantee. I installed mine this past weekend and couldn't be happier. My original carb was completely worn. The rebuilt unit bolted right on and it fired right up. I can tell you honestly that it behaves like a different car. Smooth idle, acceleration, and warm starts happen on the first turn. The rebuilt unit comes complete with the new choke, choke pull off, etc. You have a really low-mileage car there and it sounds like you've tested things and tried to adjust. I didn't have much success with adjustments etc. because 26 years and almost 270k miles took its toll. At least you have an option if you don't want to go the Weber route (of which I have heard good and bad). But, I understand if you don't want to stick with the factory setup. I'm just a nerd so OE for me.

[lostforawhile]

You could just replace the choke or convert it to manual. My suggestion though... order a rebuilt carb from Import Carburetors. $240.00 with a lifetime guarantee. I installed mine this past weekend and couldn't be happier. My original carb was completely worn. The rebuilt unit bolted right on and it fired right up. I can tell you honestly that it behaves like a different car. Smooth idle, acceleration, and warm starts happen on the first turn. The rebuilt unit comes complete with the new choke, choke pull off, etc. You have a really low-mileage car there and it sounds like you've tested things and tried to adjust. I didn't have much success with adjustments etc. because 26 years and almost 270k miles took its toll. At least you have an option if you don't want to go the Weber route (of which I have heard good and bad). But, I understand if you don't want to stick with the factory setup. I'm just a nerd so OE for me.

I'm glad your carb fixed everything, I was wondering if you got it installed and running

[ryan427]

It made a huge improvement. I need to replace all of the "exposed" vacuum lines. I'm almost positive there's a little leak somewhere. And I need to replace the other motor mounts. But I'll recommend this carb replacement to anyone with an A20a1.


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[Dr_Snooz]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/efi-tech/75775-tbi-option-our-cars.html?highlight=throttle+body

[lostforawhile]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/efi-tech/75775-tbi-option-our-cars.html?highlight=throttle+body

it's a downgrade just convert to efi with a doner car, a few Hondas had that 2 injector throttle body mess before EFI

[Dr_Snooz]

You really think it's a downgrade from the stock carb?

[lostforawhile]

You really think it's a downgrade from the stock carb?
i meant if you were going to go to all that trouble to convert, you might as well get a doner car and do the full efi swap

[Dr_Snooz]

TBI is a lesser form of fuel injection, to be sure, but converting to Honda's PGM-FI is an amazing amount of work!

[Oldblueaccord]

Absolutely of the choke coil. I just cant stand the way this thing runs.... tried all sorts of means and methods to troubleshoot surging etc. I wish there was a 2bbl tbi fuel injection system I could put on it I grew up with carbs.. but detest anything from 1983 on up in a stock car. I loooove my MSD atomic in my 1971 Dodge Demon. it still pulls low 13s with the EFI. Plus I can boost reference control timing etc. I just found a screaming deal on it used. Too bad I can't seem to source any stand alone type throttle body injection four our hondas that is inexpensive. The factory let up from the LXi cars seems cool.. but its way more work than Id like to do.


2-BBL TBI Kits (http://holleyinjection.com/fuel-injection-kits/2-bbl-tbi)

I think there more than just Holley that has 2 barrel self learn kits. But they are out there.

[chaditotx]

Update... alternator replaced, all is well!

[ryan427]

That is great to hear!


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