Another ethanol thread

[ryan427]

Forgive me if this has been covered extensively... but, damn. I switched to non-ethanol fuel when I bought our 89 LX a while back. Noticeable improvement in performance and fuel mileage. Shortly after switching to non-ethanol fuel, I replaced the plugs and wires, fuel filters, etc. Recent carb replacement (a few weeks ago) and replaced fuel lines (completely hardened and brittle) and both fuel filters again for good measure. Running superbly for a 26 year old car with 270k miles.

So, we took a trip to Orlando this past weekend. Started the trip with 3/4 tank of non-ethanol fuel and drove around Walt Disney World for a few days until it was time to fill up. No known non-ethanol fuel stations there so I settled on a HESS station near our hotel. Honestly, I didn't even think about it when I fueled up... until we stopped at a rest area. Turned the car off and came back 10 minutes later (hey, I drank a lot of coffee) and turned the key.... turn, turn, turn and no fire. When it finally did fire up, it ran crappy and hesitated at acceleration. Not a noticeable performance difference on the highway but in-town driving was terrible. Even cold starts were a struggle. For some reason, I didn't relate this to fuel. Instead, I started thinking "what now?" while inventorying possibilities of malfunctions in my mind.

A day later, I limped the car to the non-ethanol gas station and pumped 14.5 gallons of fresh fuel in to the tank. Within four miles, it completely cleared up. And then it hit me that it was likely fuel related.

Could the ethanol really have had that negative an impact? Or, do you think it was just bad fuel? Obviously, it's a hard one to answer. I know there is something about plug gap and ethanol fuel so I thought about that possibility too. This thread is completely nerd-theory based so, fire away!

[cygnus x-1]

It probably wasn't the ethanol. Here in the midwest we've been using E10 for many years and it hasn't been a problem. My guess is it was old and stale or it had water in it.

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[2oodoor]

Hess gas disappeared from around here but I remember it was not great.
I know even the "10%" ethanol gas reaked havoc on small engine equipment and two stroke stuff, especially if you leave it in a few months. Its nasty green and white goop in the carb bowl and melts plastic lines and parts.

[Oldblueaccord]

Only thing I have found with E10 is maybe,maybe your tip in throttle might hesitate a little. That's just with my old stock carbs and both don't really have accelerator pump adjustments.But usually Honda carbs are pretty lean running so there might be an issue there.

All in all I would run the gas you think runs the best!

[ryan427]

Well... Just for grins I ran through that non-ethanol tank and pumped 5 gallons of 10% ethanol fuel in it. Within 10 miles the problems started again. Guess this car likes 100% gasoline. Maybe if the plug gap was increased it would run better with E10. Will stick with non ethanol fuel. Getting 30 mpg and running great with it. It's about 20 cents more per gallon so no biggie.


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[cygnus x-1]

That's pretty strange. With only 5 gallons of E10 you're at maybe 4% total ethanol content at most. That should barely even be noticeable. It makes me wonder if the E10 fuel you get down there is just bad. Next time maybe try premium grade E10 and see what happens.

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[gp02a0083]

Very well could have been the gas was bad. Hess stations are going by rhe way side around may to june of 2015 iirc. The car should run fine on gas or e10. I would go get some startron and a new fuel filter

[2oodoor]

I want to say that e10 would be more suseptable to "aeriating" than non e as it passed thru restricted flow as a liquid, which would affect it's form as a stable liquid compared to non e being used in mechanical controls such as carb floats, needle valves, accel pumps and gravitational reliant engineering.
In other words is e10 lighter in weight per volume, I believe it is and more so if it were passed thru aeriating filtration either in the gas pumps or when pushed thru in car hardware.
Changing filters, tank sock and carb adjustments should help this car. Also tweeking the ignition timing a little bit, ensure advance "curve" is operating by using a timing light, preferably an advancing t light so you can get an actual number at final advance. Obviously some tolerance in this car is affecting the way this car is untolerant of e10 yet tolerates non e, while the same kind of car does fine on it.

[ryan427]

This is all making me more curious. I'll likely just stick with non-ethanol fuel but the nerd in me says I'll likely check timing etc. If it ain't broke, don't fix it comes to mind but that's just no fun. Ran it to Tallahassee and back today (60 miles round trip) and it purred with the non ethanol gas. Someone else mentioned to me that the e10 here really sucks. That someone came from the west coast. I can't imagine that's really it though. Btw, the only HESS stations I've ever seen in my life are on the Walt Disney World property. I'm not sure what that is but I'm not surprised they might be going out soon.


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[2oodoor]

Hess always has been a novelty station with Hess merchandise, Hess toy trucks are big collectables. Gas and the way you buy it is different all over the country.
I live about 10 miles from a major distribution hub for gas, fed by the underground pipeline from Mississippi area to here Sweetwater SC so we have some of the cheepest prices for gas in the US. Anyhew they modify the blends throughout the year,seasonal according to the weather as I understand it.
Not to drift off topic lol but trying different brands would be interesting. The huge above ground tank towers here are mostly Shell and 76 and they are trucked all over a appx 100 mi radius in dozens of different brand tankers...same supplier, different towers different blends. Many all claim its 10% but who really knows what all they do...read the pumps and you see "with Innvigorate!" Well just wtf is that and why do you have additives advertised to influence me to buy that!!? Some stations have what looks like a meth lab on the poles at the pump and you can pay extra for a "turbo shot" that mysteriously goes in the hose as you pump
..wtf right
t
Try a bottle of seafoam...its great for real.

[ryan427]

Hess always has been a novelty station with Hess merchandise, Hess toy trucks are big collectables..

And possibly very shitty gas.


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[JuiceRib]

I always try to get non ethanol gas for my hatch, but if that's not avalible i have a bottle of "Sta-bil" ethanol fuel treatment in my car 24/7. As for gasoline brands, I've noticed i get better mileage (aprox. 0.5-1mpg) with Exxon's ethanol gas vs any other gas i've thrown into it. I always treat every ethanol fillup though, might have something to do with it.

[ryan427]

Interesting. Was in a pinch last night and had to dump about 3 gallons of ethanol fuel in to an empty tank. Terrible again! Dies right after starting, hesitating, low idle. It hates the corn for sure.


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[cygnus x-1]

Interesting. Was in a pinch last night and had to dump about 3 gallons of ethanol fuel in to an empty tank. Terrible again! Dies right after starting, hesitating, low idle. It hates the corn for sure.


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Same station as before or different one?

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[ryan427]

Different station about 40 miles from home. Shell brand this time. There's a variable that I think I should've mentioned before: it's warm here as it was in Orlando the last time we visited. In the 80's. I know winter fuel is more volatile and, quicker to evaporate in warmer temps. I wonder if the summer blend ethanol will yield the same result. Hm.


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[cygnus x-1]

Different station about 40 miles from home. Shell brand this time. There's a variable that I think I should've mentioned before: it's warm here as it was in Orlando the last time we visited. In the 80's. I know winter fuel is more volatile and, quicker to evaporate in warmer temps. I wonder if the summer blend ethanol will yield the same result. Hm.


That's a good question. Winter blend fuel also has a lower energy content by volume, so the stoichiometric ratio will be a little lower (needs more fuel). I suppose that could explain what's happening but when it's hot out the engine will need less fuel anyway. Only one way to find out I guess.

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