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mindlos
01-05-2003, 06:12 PM
WARNING THIS MOD IS NOT FOR VEHICLES IN EMISSION CONTROLED STATESTHIS MOD SHOULD BE PERFORMED BY AN EXPERIENCED PERSON TO REDUCE THE RISK OF IMPROPER CARB TUNING OR VACUUM ROUTING, PLEASE CHECK THE HOW-TO SECTION OF 3GEEZ FOR THE VACUUM REMOVAL DIAGRAM
Vacuum Diagram (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=11067)



Actually I think the damn cops will :D. I removed all that vacuum crap and I gotta say this thing kicks. Since I'm no mopar I gotta say this is my street rod. I've been screeching tires all over the place even when I dont intend to and I cant resist that kick when I punch the gas on the highway. I gotta say this is the most worthwile mod without installing aftermarket parts. Thanks guys for the direction.

Which brings me to one point:

I printed out shepherd79's howto before it went down and I need some clarification at the end about hooking up the vacuum lines. It went something like this (not word for word):

-connect air jet controller line B to port on carb furthest from power valve port along the top.
-connet air jet controller line C to port on carb next to power valve port along the top.
-connect the manifold port to the distributor and power valve port on the carb.
-connect the distributor and intake manifold to the C

Now I had problems with the last line. First I assumed the C to be from the air jet controller. Second I could get it to run normally even when giving gas without the engine fluttering all over the place. No steady consistent idle and no one way response to the throttle. So I scrapped those connections from the last line and it ran like a champ. Did I miss something or misintepret something on that last line?

BTW, I only capped the choke stuff and float bowl vent rather than remove them. Other than that confusion I had its looking great.

A20A1
01-06-2003, 01:14 AM
Letter C was from a picture with alphabeticly labled carb ports.

There is a letter C on the air jet controller, but you plug that vacuum line.

mindlos
01-06-2003, 08:22 AM
Alright, I see what whas going on. That last line was an expansion/clarification of the previous line and not a different set of connections. However I guess that was a typo on the howto because it should not be "C". If you look at the rear side of the carb (firewall) picture on doug's site (that was the picture shown), "C" on the carb is the accelerator pump linkage and I guess it had to be "D" because that is the power valve that manifold vacuum has to be connected to. No biggie then coz I ended up doing it right.

On another note, what does the air jet contoller really do (the one that has A, B, and C labelled lines)??

A20A1
01-06-2003, 08:32 AM
It controll vacuum bleed based on altitude, or actually the amount of air that is allowed to enter the air correction jets. which affects the air fuel mixture to a point... turn the 12mm nut on the back of the air jet controller all the way out should give a richer mixture.

A20A1
01-06-2003, 08:33 AM
I think the haynes manual explains it usage better... I don't have a haynes manual though.

mindlos
01-06-2003, 09:31 AM
I got one. I'll check it out.

-Mindlos

shepherd79
01-06-2003, 02:23 PM
i am glad some one used the How to.

mindlos
01-06-2003, 10:26 PM
BTW, thanks shepherd79. Your work was definitely not in vain. I was so tired of all the hiccups and farts the car was doing.

shepherd79
01-07-2003, 05:01 AM
wait till you putt headers on and straight pipe for the catalitic converter.
i can now go past my redline very easy.

Mantis88LX
01-07-2003, 04:08 PM
man i need to do this

shepherd79
01-18-2003, 02:57 PM
ok, i just finished it.
it will load slow, so just be patient.
*thanks to mike (a20a1) for some pictures.*
this vesion is a lot easier to understand too. I call it "How to for dummies."





>Added by: A20A1
http://webpages.shepherd.edu/abetke01/novacuum.htm

shepherd79
01-18-2003, 03:38 PM
ok i made mistake, but thanks to mike pointing out i got it fixed.
it is all good right now.

2old_honda
01-18-2003, 05:54 PM
link?

Mike's89AccordLX
01-18-2003, 05:56 PM
Yeah, is that it? :) I guess that was pretty easy :D

shepherd79
01-18-2003, 06:03 PM
man, we have a lot of dummies around this board.
look at HOW to section.

Mike's89AccordLX
01-18-2003, 06:06 PM
Well dude if you're making a thread about it being done, it'd be really easy to post a link.

2old_honda
01-18-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by shepherd79
man, we have a lot of dummies around this board.
look at HOW to section. :rolleyes: well here (http://webpages.shepherd.edu/abetke01/novacuum.htm) is the link since you seem to be too lazy to post it in this thread.

Mike's89AccordLX
01-18-2003, 07:52 PM
Thank you 2old honda for posting a link. I think I'll do this tomorrow after I get some rest. I've been up for almost 2 days now. I have a weber so all of the stuff is already plugged and stuff. I will just need to make a throttle return spring bracket b/c currently i'm using the metal vac. lines as a bracket.

ACCORD EX
01-19-2003, 03:32 AM
i am updating the how to thread !



MIKE

Mike's89AccordLX
01-19-2003, 03:36 AM
Thanks Accord EX for doing that.

Mantis88LX
01-19-2003, 11:45 AM
the pics arent loading? i dont see any?

Mike's89AccordLX
01-19-2003, 11:50 AM
They loaded for me, you have to click the link if you didn't. The pics are on the link.

ACCORD EX
01-19-2003, 04:37 PM
ok i uploaded it to another server ! and fixed the pictures things !here is the link !

http://members.fortunecity.com/accordex87/how_to_remove_the_vacuum_lines.htm

ENJOY !


MIKE

A20A1
01-19-2003, 05:38 PM
hmm much better... at the other site I had to refresh the page 20 times just to get all the pictures to load, and I'm not exhagerrating.

A20A1
01-19-2003, 05:41 PM
Oh are you going to tell them to remove the choke plate? I know the choke puller stays in place because of the internal vacuum line.

shepherd79
01-19-2003, 05:58 PM
Hey Mike thanks for loading to a new server.
yeah i forgot about the choke. well, they can comeback and ask.

88 Accord DX
01-19-2003, 06:38 PM
seems like way to much work for me. plus i would be scared to flip the carb. is it really worth it???

shepherd79
01-20-2003, 04:28 AM
hell yeah it is worth it.
it is not that much work. you will spend more time removing shit.
than it takes like minutes to putt it back. you don't have to flip the carb. you just have to be very careful with it.

ACCORD EX
01-20-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by shepherd79
Hey Mike thanks for loading to a new server.



no prob ! :D

MIKE

88 Accord DX
01-20-2003, 01:01 PM
it looks like there are too many things that can go wrong. maybe if i get bored this summer i will do it.

Mike's89AccordLX
01-20-2003, 01:27 PM
Ok, I have a weber. Aren't all the vac. lines plugged already? If I remove the box will I still have cruise control and my electric choke for the carb?

shepherd79
01-20-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Mike's89AccordLX
Ok, I have a weber. Aren't all the vac. lines plugged already? If I remove the box will I still have cruise control and my electric choke for the carb?
if you have a weber than you don't need this how to.
just take everything out and drop weber.
i don't think cruise control would work with weber. cruise control reguires vacuum box. i think black box does some of the cruise control stuff.

Mike's89AccordLX
01-20-2003, 02:05 PM
My cruise control does work with the weber too. That sucks, I don't want to lose that.

Mike's89AccordLX
01-20-2003, 02:06 PM
I suppose I could unplug the black box and then see if the cruise works. hopefully it does b/c I don't want that ugly box anymore. That would be a good way to check and see if it runs off of the black box. (cars getting a new alarm system put in at the moment so I can't check now)

shepherd79
01-20-2003, 02:30 PM
hmm, that would be nice to know.

mindlos
01-20-2003, 04:14 PM
*Looks* much better, haven't read it since I already did with version 1. One problem but its not hard for anybody using this to figure out (sans dummies :D). The picture for part d. points to the fuel line port with "PLUG" instead of the one to the lower right of it (usually hooked to #11).

baron4406
01-20-2003, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by Mike's89AccordLX
Ok, I have a weber. Aren't all the vac. lines plugged already? If I remove the box will I still have cruise control and my electric choke for the carb?

Dude just trace the vacuum from your cruise control diaphram and run it to vacuum. I did that and my cruise works great.

shepherd79
01-20-2003, 04:33 PM
oh shit you are right.
mike, can you fix the problem.
thanks.

Brad_86AccordLX
01-21-2003, 10:41 AM
So you are saying that u can do this project and still keep the cruise control with the stock carb ? Or are you guys talking about the weber. Id love to do this mod and keep cruise control. Another thing id like to ask is, i want to cut my air cleaner assembly to fit the oval filter, but what do you do with the exhaust gas recirculate hose and all that junk connected to the exhaust manifold, and what else is required besides what it tells you in the how-to. One more thing, u guys talk about flipping the carb when ur working on it?, and how that wrecks it or something? Just wondering? Ive worked on many carburetors for bikes and snowmobiles, but ever a carburated car. THANKS!!

~Brad

A20A1
01-21-2003, 11:19 AM
For the Cruise control to work, I'm assuming you just need manifold vacuum... the the bulk of the cruise control function is done by the control unit... which i think is located under the dash.

You can cut the lid... I did it once because it makes it easier to tune the stock carb. there are a few things that are disconnected when you do this.
- AIR TEMP SENSOR
- PRE HEATER HOSE
- PCV HOSE AND FILTER
- VACUUM LINE TO HOT AIR DOOR CONTROL DIAPHRAGM

I think the Air suction silencer can stay on...

shepherd79
01-21-2003, 12:30 PM
many people say that flipping the carb is bad. well, let me tell you, i fliped my carburators many times, and they always work.

Mantis88LX
01-21-2003, 01:06 PM
i want to remove all the other shit except the choke and i dont want to have manual secondary. so what vaccum hoses should i remove in order to keep choke and vaccum secondary ?? thanx

shepherd79
01-21-2003, 02:43 PM
i think i know about the secondary, IM me so i can explain better.
about the choke i have no clue.

Brad_86AccordLX
01-22-2003, 09:28 AM
THANKS.....

But whats the difference between manual secondary and a vacuum secondary, and if i do this, its removing the choke, how is it gonna start on the cold ass mornings here in Minnesota?? One more thing, if i cut the lid up, what do i do with those sensors, just plug them where they lead to or disconect them whatever the connection is vacuum/electrical ? THANKS

mindlos
01-22-2003, 03:34 PM
The manual secondary will always open at a certain throttle position regardless of rpms. *I THINK* the vacuum secondary does not open when below certain rpms (say 2700 to 3000) when you floor it and the physical rail is no longer impeding. If you floor it at very low rpms on manual secondary the car stumbles and almost stands still because the air drawing the fuel through the venturis slows down tremendously due to 100% increase in the air passage. Thus not enough fuel is drawn to accelerate. Its like driving a street-rod. You have to be more aware of driving dos and don'ts instead of the vacuum stuff + computer doing it for you.

Starting and idling a car in very cold conditions like MN is a major hassle. There is a trick involved though so I'm still very happy. Also because I bought a house and park inside a garage. Not heated but its not ice cold either. If you are outside or if you go anywhere and park long enough for the car to freeze over its not nice.

The trick is running it rich using the accelerator pump diagphram other wise it will stall. First give it 2 or so good pumps before cranking. Immediately when the car starts after you crank keep tapping the accelerator every second or faster/slower if necessary. Do not tap the accelerator far enough to move the throttle plate much coz that will open the air passage too much. You only want the gas squirted by the pump diagphram to keep coming so it will be super rich and not more air as well. I have to do that for minute, on the coldest days in the last four weeks since I did the mod, then I can leave it alone and go back inside. Since I did not remove the chocke housing assemly I get high idle, 2.5K -3K when I leave it alone until I tap the gas once when warmed up (if thats not by design without vacuum signals connected I'm still happy about it). I did disconnect the choke plate though to avoid unnecessary choking.

When starting it always stalls the first time, but my trick works after that. It sounds complicated and long in the explanation but it is really simple. Just as long as you can live without the other ammenities. You could also hook up a manual choke cable from the cabin to the choke plate lever to cure the cold start/idle stall.

What do you think carb gods?


Mike, do you know how the choke assembly internal vacuum setup interacts with the vacuum hose hookups? Basically I'm asking whats going on there coz I feel there might something riggable.

A20A1
01-22-2003, 05:20 PM
The internal vacuum line routes from the choke puller to the carb just below and to the left of the venturi vacuum port that connects to the vacuum secodnary diaphragm. Internally the vacuum for the choke and the secodnary diaphragm are seperate. The Internal vacuum line for the choke exits below the throttle plate in the secondary barrel. So it should be considered a manifold vacuum port.

shepherd79
01-22-2003, 07:38 PM
yeah i have to agree, that when secondary opens at low rpm car stumbles a little. I try to floor it when i am about 3K or above.
the sensors that are on the airfilter, you can just take them out. you won't need them.
choke, well it is 5deg outside today, and i my car starts just fine.
it is harder to start when it is very cold. you will have to get used to it, but you can do it.
my best bet would be for you to go get another carb from junk yard and strip it for this mod. this way if you don't like it you can putt the stock carb back on.
you can leave the vacuum lines on the car and just plug everything else on the carb. if you don't like it. go back to the way you had it.

3rdGenFanatic
01-24-2003, 11:08 AM
When I do this mod, will I still have my AC/Heat?

dXsquared
01-24-2003, 11:14 AM
yah

Travis

Mike's89AccordLX
01-24-2003, 01:31 PM
Do you think I might need a different fuel pump with my weber? In the cold weather here it just doesn't seem to get enough gas in the mornings. I took my silencer off b/c it was block the exhaust too much so the hard lost a crap load of power and stalled a lot.

shepherd79
01-24-2003, 02:17 PM
in my opinion stock fuel pump can't keep up with weber demands.
Mike posted links to the fiel pumps that you can use.

I am not sure if it is possible to keep AC with no vacuums, but he heat will work.

A20A1
01-24-2003, 02:43 PM
the stock fuel pump has a hard time keeping up with a rejeted keihin.

89BadBoy
01-28-2003, 09:38 PM
is there a how-to for the, manual choke conversion, and secondary conversion? or am i dumb and just missing it somewhere?

shepherd79
01-29-2003, 04:30 AM
manual choke is just a cable atached to the choke plate. i am sure you can do it on yourown.
secondary conversion, there is a picture.

A20A1
01-30-2003, 06:36 PM
If you decide not to do the secondary conversion you need to keep one extra vacuum line.
run a 5/32" vacuum line from the vacuum port labled "SEC" to the vacuum diaphragm on the right side of the carb.

A20A1
01-30-2003, 06:41 PM
run the vacuum line to the diaphragm like this... the picture below is deceptive... thats why I posted the pic above to let you know whic vacuum port to keep and which to plug

shepherd79
01-31-2003, 05:05 AM
thank mike. i thought that is what it was, but i wasn't sure.

A20A1
01-31-2003, 07:52 PM
Oh I posted that for someone else... I just used this thread cause it made it sticky

Mantis88LX
01-31-2003, 08:21 PM
thanx a20a1

A20A1
02-10-2003, 04:13 AM
Well I spent the whole day stairing at the monitor erasing and drawing out the vacuum diagram for the keihin... this should help you guys get a good picture of where everything goes.

http://www.geocities.com/accord89lx/keihinvacuum.html

I also took the time to add in a Weber vacuum diagram. :D

mindlos
02-10-2003, 02:25 PM
I have been thinking about that vacuum advance diagphram on the distributor and have a scenario for people to help test (those who have removed most of the vacuum lines).

Synopsis: I have noticed that my car does not run as smooth on low grade fuel [87] after removing the vacuum lines and accelerates slightly better before fully warming up. This is mostly at the 3000+ RPM range I have noticed. I cant make conclusions on the low end. I dont drive completely cold but once the gauge starts moving I go. My feeling is that it is related to advanced timing. I also have been running premium since this partially counter the issue.

The outer port on the diagphram that hooks to #25 is supposed to receive vacuum only when the engine cold. I cant remember the temp and I cant check it while at work but maybe about 50 degrees celsius. The way we have it set up right now after removing the other crap is that there will always be a signal to the diagphram on both ports.

I am not worried about the inner port that hook to #2 since that is supposed to get a vacuum signal even when warm. However, the constant vaccum signal to the cold advance port means that you will be running at a more advanced timing than normal. If you already had advanced the timing via the distributor then there is a chance you will probably go over the pinging threshhold.

Here's my suggestion: The howto must state that is you want advanced timing AND you have not advanced your distributor then also connect the outer port to manifold vacuum. This may necessitate higher grade fuel if you were on the lowest octane and you get pinging. Otherwise you can just plug that cold advance port, which shouldnt be too bad unless you drive your car cold without warming it up. Another undesirable resolution would be routing to the thermovalve but thats recreating the junk removed.

The Test: If anybody can, please test your car response with the cold advance hooked to vacuum and when plugged (no vac). If nobody notices any differnce then I guess it could be a none issue, but I'm looking for input from the knowledgeable. To maybe add significance to this does anybody know how much advance is added by the diagphram per port per 1000 RPM or mmHg vacuum, whatever?

shepherd79
02-10-2003, 04:14 PM
i will see what i can find out.

A20A1
02-11-2003, 12:06 AM
The significance is slight... but you are right.
I have tested it many times with the BS motor I had and hooking both vacuum advance ports to direct manifold vacuum can safely be done with timing set at TDC.

lets say stock advance brings you to within the first and second line... of the ignition advance marks on the flywheel. Adding the second vacuum hose to the distributor brings the advance to the third line on the flywheel.

The three lines look like this l | l

Which is good for roughly about a 200rmp increased idle at most.

Also I think the max manifold vacuum was 22" @ 1,000 rpm with the stock motor
and up to 25" - 28" if you snap the trottle closed.

I normally ran around 18" @ 1,000 rpm with the stock motor, but I blame that on the age or the car.

and my car with the reground cam pulls 10" @ 1,000 rpm

mindlos
02-11-2003, 11:59 AM
One thing I need to do is get a timing light. Part of the assumption is that since I havent messed with my timing I assume it is within spec. On the other hand, until I check my timing I will stick with the cold advance port plugged. More so because I feel the car responds better that way. Like you say the difference is not earth shattering but was enough for me to detect. I wasnt getting any pinging either so there was nothing detrimental with both ports hooked to manifold vacuum. I guess this could be a FYI piece.

civilude92
02-25-2003, 11:25 PM
what will happen if i plug both? i have done the conversion, but i still need to tune the a/f ratio and adjust the idle. but the car does idle. it just sounds like a v8 talking to me.

TitaniumSun
03-19-2003, 03:04 PM
not to sound to stupid but can you give me the link to the page you are talking about cause i would like to do this to my car, and i was also curious does this interfear with the 91 civic intake mod with the short ram intake from autozone...

thanks for the help

DAVE

Mantis88LX
03-19-2003, 05:24 PM
check the how to it is in there, i did it finally!

A20A1
03-19-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by mindlos
BTW, thanks shepherd79. Your work was definitely not in vain. I was so tired of all the hiccups and farts the car was doing.

Yeah shep... good job

Just don't forget to give Eric and I some credit too... :D

shepherd79
03-20-2003, 04:29 AM
ok, here is update on how to.
you know how car has nose dive between 2000-3000 rpm after you remove vacuum lines. well, if you remove the air jet controller, and plug the holes your car will perform better between 2000-3000 rpm.
i did on mine last week, and i am very happy.

shepherd79
03-20-2003, 04:33 AM
Originally posted by A20A1
Yeah shep... good job

Just don't forget to give Eric and I some credit too... :D
i did include you at the how to. anyway, i can't change it, because Accord EX (mike) is hosting HOW TO for me.
But i still want to thank Eric and Mike (A20A1) for their help.

ACCORD EX
03-20-2003, 05:31 AM
hey Alex ! if you want to change anything just update it and send the file to me @ [email protected] !

it's no bother at all ! :)

MIKE

mindlos
03-20-2003, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by A20A1
Yeah shep... good job

Just don't forget to give Eric and I some credit too... :D

Thanks MIke:D . Whose Eric:huh:

Mike's89AccordLX
03-20-2003, 08:14 AM
Hey mindlos, I want to remove my vac lines today. I have the weber so I think all of the lines are capped anyways. I don't know about that tree thing with the A, B, and C lines coming out of it. Do I just remove all the tree vac lines to and cap those off? I will have to take a closer look but any help would be grateful :)

Mantis88LX
03-20-2003, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by shepherd79
ok, here is update on how to.
you know how car has nose dive between 2000-3000 rpm after you remove vacuum lines. well, if you remove the air jet controller, and plug the holes your car will perform better between 2000-3000 rpm.
i did on mine last week, and i am very happy.

so u plug the Lines running to the carb from the air jet controller?

will this effect idle?

Mike's89AccordLX
03-20-2003, 08:39 AM
From what I'm understanding is that we just plug A, B, and C on the little tree thing.

ACCORD EX
03-20-2003, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by mindlos
Whose Eric:huh:

ther former carb god !:D

MIKE

mindlos
03-20-2003, 09:41 AM
Is he still around?

Doesn't plugging the air jet controller ports just make you run your carb richer? If so does it make it rich enough to foul your plugs?

mindlos
03-20-2003, 09:48 AM
that was quite some mouth to mouth on this thread

Mike's89AccordLX
03-20-2003, 09:52 AM
:huh: what?

mindlos
03-20-2003, 10:33 AM
resuscitation

A20A1
03-20-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by mindlos
Thanks MIke:D . Whose Eric:huh:

Yeah... POS CARB (Eric) Started removing vacuum lines... And he was close to removing them all... I thinkn he was down to like 6.
The I came in and took off a few more... then me and him were discussing how to hook up the air jet. I finally ended up tossing it... but I didn't feel much difference and I was pretty sure Eric knew what he was doing... so when giving directions to other members i told them to keep the Air-Jet and just turn the rear 12mm nut out. There were other projets Pos Carb started but I dunno I pretty much took his pace whn he moved away. :(

shepherd79
03-20-2003, 11:08 AM
unpluging air jet controller will not affect idle at all.
just remove the air jet coroller and plug the lines on the carb.
the way i understand, air jet conroller was leaning out mixture between 2000-3000 RPM.
i got improvement between 2000-3000 rpm after i took it off.
it didn't hurt my gas mileage at all.

A20A1
03-20-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by mindlos
Is he still around?

Doesn't plugging the air jet controller ports just make you run your carb richer? If so does it make it rich enough to foul your plugs?



This is directly from my keihin modding thread. This is the reason you get an increase in power... it also explains why the idle isn't really affected.

Something interesting I notticed... the primary Air correction jet is around 160- 175 when the air jet controller is in use... and there is a difference between the 86-87 air correction jet and the 88-89 air correction jet... one has a 60 and the other uses a 65. the higer the # the leaner the fuel mixture... well the greater the braking force on the gas in the emulsion tubes. Which means if I use a + 25 + 30 ruel for the mains.

The primary main jet should be around 135 - 150

More then likely its 135 but I no longer have a way to tell and I forgot all my old measurements of the jets.

Anywho... thats why plugging the air controll jet does wonders... cause it keeps the Letter A which is the 100 air correction jet
and letter B which is the 110 air correction jet from being used.
So weighing a 65 jet against even a 135 main which is fairly small... would create such a low braking power that you'll come out with a richer mixture.

BTW letter C is the 60/65 air controll jet.

connecting B to C whould give you 170 - 175 air correction
and
connecting A to C would give you a 160 -165 air correction

This may be good later on when doing emissions testing

anyways back to my project... i thhink I'm gonna bust out another top hat from the junk yard... seems I have another plan and some of the drilling I did went a little too far. it looks real nice but I think in the lkong run starting over again will save me some greif of getting the carb to work right.

A20A1
03-20-2003, 11:21 AM
damn I reread all that... shows I can't type for beans:D

mindlos
03-20-2003, 12:04 PM
POS Carb, aaahhhh. I remember him. Hey you are either accurate and slow or fast and get the point across. I cant type a damn so I take it at a leisurely pace. Thats why I will never be a post whore.

So, the way the carb is jetted right now, is that any close to the levels of diminishing returns with increasing richness? If I wanted to drill the primary jet I would obviously see some benefit right? I do remember a bigger size being suggested. Speaking of which, is that a risky endeavor? Is there some secondary or tertiary structural design that would be obliterated (basically making it a simple straw)?

Mike's89AccordLX
03-20-2003, 12:09 PM
Hey mindlos maybe you can help me with these vac. lines. I don't know what to do with all the stuff that's connected to the vac. lines on the drivers side of the engine.

A20A1
03-20-2003, 12:42 PM
It will only be a simple straw if you remove the emulsion tube or if you drill the main jet way over the size of the air correction jet.

If you do decide to drill the main jet... then maybe reconnecting the air jet controller would keep you from fouling the plugs.

mindlos
03-20-2003, 12:46 PM
Mike's89, you've got PM.

A20A1
03-20-2003, 12:53 PM
PM'S

:lol

mindlos
03-20-2003, 01:04 PM
:lol

mindlos
03-20-2003, 01:42 PM
Mike's89 your mailbox is full.

heres the message:

I put up a picture. To be honest with you I am not sure what those electrical connections are for, apart from the obvious, so I left them alone. My Haynes manual is at home so I cant verify for now. See the picture?

http://24.118.61.34/~mandla/driverfender.jpg

Mike's89AccordLX
03-20-2003, 01:45 PM
Ok I removed the wires from the harnesses and removed that round thing (hope to god it's the cruise control) let me see what else I have to remove.

A20A1
03-20-2003, 02:00 PM
Yeah if you don't want cruise then remove that big round can and the Vacuum reserve bottle (black)

No need to plug vacuum lines since they are disconnected.

With A/C gone you can remove the solenoids from the right side... I'm not sure which are for A/C and Which are for Cruise controll... there are some up by the wiper motor and there are some on the inside fender wall that can be removed...

if you remove the driverside fender you will see a second (BLACK BOX) which you can also remove If you want to.

Mike's89AccordLX
03-20-2003, 02:09 PM
What do I do with the tubes going to the vac advance near the distributer?

A20A1
03-20-2003, 02:13 PM
you need those... look on my how to... I connected them to manifold vacuum... i used the port at the rear of the carb... save some of the vacuum connectors that came stock with the car to adapt the smaller size hoses from the vacuum advance to the larger vacuum ports on the manifold.

Mike's89AccordLX
03-20-2003, 02:15 PM
Ok let me check again.

rideredorgohome
03-20-2003, 10:08 PM
whoa mindlos, where'd you get that intake dude? I wanna get my hands on one a those!

mindlos
03-20-2003, 10:18 PM
Gotta go to the junkyard and get a 1989-91 civic PGM-FI box then do a little cutting and fittin. Check this thread to see the developments:

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13819

3G Jester
03-20-2003, 10:29 PM
how much did you pay at the j/y?

A20A1
03-20-2003, 10:31 PM
Mindlos that pic in your sig is a nice veiw of the intake but a bit too small do you mind if I have the larger pic to post in a new thread I just made.

A20A1
03-20-2003, 10:48 PM
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15496
that is the new thread.

mindlos
03-20-2003, 11:02 PM
Absolutely no problem. Save as from this link: http://66.41.36.228/~mandla/intake.jpg. It's a little dark because it was cloudy/rainy today. I could snap another when the sun comes out, which might be Saturday.

mindlos
03-20-2003, 11:15 PM
Forget the sun!! Since you will photoshop a little more brightness and contast brings out all the detail. Mind cleaning my valve cover while you are at it :D Mantis' picture is quite dark too.

A20A1
03-20-2003, 11:27 PM
WHAAAAAAAT!

Mantis pics are always so bright with tones of glare... go back to his geocities site photo folder... the link is in accord pics... thats where I got the original from... but yeah I did darken it.
:D
:lol

A20A1
03-20-2003, 11:29 PM
I was actually thinking of adding the word TURBO to the civic intake lid... but then I'd have to get rid of the filter and route some extra intake pipe... or at the very least crop it out of the photo.

Mike's89AccordLX
03-20-2003, 11:34 PM
I might add weber to my weber intake :D

mindlos
03-21-2003, 12:09 AM
I got this one for you ... a friend saw it and called a super charger :lol ... and he was serious ... ya, :stupid:

I'll agree that all those pics on geocities are overbright. I guess I dont blame you.

You know I've been wrecking my brain on what to put on that lid other than "mindlos" (I'm definitely not self centered). Since you got my gears turning again I figure "3geez" will work nicely until I find another one. Except I will have to make some ghetto decal or do some unimpressive painting.

mindlos
03-21-2003, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by 3g Jester
how much did you pay at the j/y?
I knew I was forgeting something. That was $25. They wouldnt take less. Then the pipe and filter was $59 at autozone.

rubberburner
04-13-2003, 10:08 AM
I just finished reading the entire thread, and I tried my best to understand everything. If I follow ACCORD EX's exact directions in the how-to, how is my machine gonna run? With the manual secondary, is it gonna stumble around below 3000rpms? Will the timing be screwed up? Will the fuel pump be able to keep up? Or will the thing run like a baby, and give me a noticable increase in HP:confused:

BTW, the knowledge you guys have of this stuff is truly amazing:bow: Thanx for taking the time to share it:)

shepherd79
04-13-2003, 11:01 AM
you mean if you follow my directions with help of A20A1 and POS carb, and Accord EX hosting.
anyway, i am going to update the how to. so hold on. there will be changes.
if you have questions, please ask Mike (A20A1), POS cab, or me.

ACCORD EX
04-14-2003, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by shepherd79
you mean if you follow my directions with help of A20A1 and POS carb, and Accord EX hosting.


was my name even mentioned in the how to ! :D :D

MIKE

SupaNam
05-10-2003, 11:27 AM
i'm not that good with carbed motors.... but i read that, vaccum line removals are only for carbed motors WITHOUT a choke? my motor has a choke, but i would like to remove my lines, so how do i do that? just remove the choke too?

A20A1
05-11-2003, 02:02 PM
you can keep the choke...

K DASH
05-31-2003, 11:54 PM
Ah man, if only I didn't have the worries of emissions... those vacuum lines would be out so quickly.

Is it reversable? if so do I have to reinstall everything to pass emissions?

BMS
06-07-2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by K DASH
Ah man, if only I didn't have the worries of emissions... those vacuum lines would be out so quickly.

Is it reversable? if so do I have to reinstall everything to pass emissions?

That's a good question for us Cali guys. Our smog laws suck.

rehv_Aerodeck86
06-28-2003, 03:47 AM
i finally did the vacuum-mod. i't was kinda hard though, because i have a20a2 (euro) and the schematic were quite different than the one in the how-to. i broke the plastic 3-port vacuum adapter (?) that connects to the manifold....and since it was 7AM and was really boder, i somehow connected the vac. lines needed. but when i turned the key - voila! - it worked. i took it for a spin....this ruled :D ....like an extra 50hp under the hood. if anybody doubts if it's worth it - YES

( i kept the choke, mech. secondary)

riley b.
06-29-2003, 09:31 PM
is the "red line" past 6 in my first circle !Wow !

taylorsstud
06-30-2003, 07:10 PM
well i know this is in the Carb Tech forum but oh well, i just wanted to know is there any removable "vacuum lines" in the EFI?

shepherd79
07-01-2003, 03:38 AM
i think you can remove 2-3 lines but that about it. you need every one of them to get 122hp.

fuzzy audio
08-15-2003, 06:24 PM
Hey all you vac. line removing people!

What happened to your fuel economy after you removed all the lines?

A20A1
08-15-2003, 10:37 PM
If you want better fuel economy hook up the air jet controller.

rubberburner
08-16-2003, 07:55 PM
Well I did the conversion. I did A20A1's How To, keeping the choke and the vacuum secondary. It gave me a little bit more power, not very noticable. I'm not sure, it might be my fucked over exhaust, so I'll redo that. At least all that vacuum crap is out of the way. Thank you to the guys who made the How To.

rubberburner
09-02-2003, 12:47 PM
K, well It's time to do my ignition timing. I did a search on adjusting the timing, but the results were of no help since my advance diaphragms are hooked up to manifold vacuum full time now. How should I adjust my timing? I have a 20* on my flywheel, and there's 2 marks that are adjacent to the 20*. Yesterday, I adjusted it so that the pointer is at the 20, and I left the advance diaphragms hooked up. She was pingin like crazy though. Plz help me.

mindlos
09-02-2003, 01:09 PM
When you disconnect the advance diagphram do you notice any drastic drop in rpms. If no then something is bad (like the diagphrams). It should have worked right if you set the 20* with the vacuum lines connected. Do you know what your timing was before you adjusted it?

rubberburner
09-02-2003, 01:12 PM
No, I don't know what it was before I adjusted it. The rpms drop without the advance diaphragms hooked up, so they are working right? (I plugged the the vacuum lines when preforming this test)_

mindlos
09-02-2003, 01:20 PM
I would say it works. I dont know why you are getting pinging though. You might just have to back up your timing until it doesnt ping.

rubberburner
09-02-2003, 02:20 PM
Ya, my buddy just came over and that's what we're gonna do. Can the idle mixture screw affect this stuff at all? Cuz I was playing with that yesterday as well.

A20A1
09-03-2003, 02:47 AM
I'd say set the TDC withouth the advance diaphragm hooked up, then only hook up #2 vacuum advance line and don't bother hooking up the other one.

What did you do to the idle mixture? if you screwed it in then you could be leaning out your mixture pretty bad. (guys with main jets drilled may not apply)

rubberburner
09-03-2003, 05:22 PM
Well, I dialed it back to the line before the 20*, and now it only pings occasionaly. I richened the idle mixture up, so it's a little more responsive now when I pin it. Is the #2 line the one closest to the firewall, or the the furthest?

alboy
09-04-2003, 07:18 PM
nice intake do u know if you can buy those already made my 88 accord is stock and im just wondering how to get some more horsepower out of it thanks

A20A1
09-07-2003, 11:06 AM
http://87accord.com/

Doug's site... If you happen to be looking for the location of each part on the carb.


http://webpages.charter.net/ygisin/carb/carb.html
here is another page by 2Fast4U86

(I IM'ed you wikked but you left) :D

alboy
09-08-2003, 06:51 PM
i dont know if anybody has tried this but i pulled the intake pipe out of the fender and sucured it so it was facing toward the front od the car and it semmed to help but i dont know if it would do anything to the vaccum lines

jeffreygivens
09-13-2003, 06:44 AM
what do you guys use to plug the vac lines

rubberburner
09-13-2003, 08:11 AM
I think you can buy the plugs. I got a few from the j/y. I also cut a few of the lines short, and stuck bolts in them, but it looks kinda slopy. When there were 2 lines that were close together that needed to be plugged, I just connected them together.

rubberburner
12-06-2003, 09:33 AM
I'm starting to wonder if I hooked my choke/fast idle unloader up properly. The thermovalves the back of my intake manifold are different from what is shown on the how-to. Also, the this system is not hooked up to any vacuum anywhere on the how-to. I'm a little confused. If someone could explain how this system works, that would be greatly appreciated.

A20A1
12-06-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by jeffreygivens
what do you guys use to plug the vac lines


5/32 inch, rubber Vacuum caps.
I don't know that in mm

Can you show us pics of you engine? The carb from all 4 sides including the back of the manifold... you may have to use the thermovavle on the thermostat housing.

rubberburner
12-06-2003, 08:37 PM
If you look at page 11-7 on Paul's manual, my intake manifold thermovalves are exactly like the ones shown. Sorry, I don't have the means of giving any pictures.

k-roy
12-06-2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by A20A1
5/32 inch, rubber Vacuum caps.
I don't know that in mm

Can you show us pics of you engine? The carb from all 4 sides including the back of the manifold... you may have to use the thermovavle on the thermostat housing.

I had a problem with that size caps falling off after a week or so. Metric sizes are nearly impossible to find. One day at the junkyard I went around and pulled every single small metric one off of a 3g. I say right now my car has parts off about 50 other 3Gs.

soljaboy2000
01-15-2004, 03:06 PM
I just wanted to know that if you removed all the vaccuum stuff does it decrease perfomance or causes any problems? And do I have to buy any extra parts after the removal?

k-roy
01-15-2004, 03:24 PM
You have to buy a few vacuum caps. It increases performance and is immediatly noticeable.
DO NOT do this mod if you have to pass an emissions test.
You need to slightly tweak the carb after you do this, it took me 5 minutes.

A20A1
01-16-2004, 04:01 AM
I just wanted to know that if you removed all the vaccuum stuff does it decrease perfomance or causes any problems? And do I have to buy any extra parts after the removal?


I can help you do the vacuum line removal if you want me to.

SteveDX89
01-16-2004, 05:58 AM
The diagram that shows the vac lines with choke and vacuum secondary need to be modified a bit. Alex (shepherd79) had to move the line coming from the runners on cylinder 3&4 to the back on the manifold on my car so that i get vacuum from all the cylinders.

A20A1
01-16-2004, 03:25 PM
yeah... I just put it the way I did to show you needed manifold vacuum. Where you put it is up to you.

A20A1
01-21-2004, 01:34 PM
I just revised the Vacuum removal diagram in the how to section... It now includes the AC Vacuum lines.
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=11067

Dragonfly
02-05-2004, 01:40 PM
does removing the choke cause any starting problems? im in the south it realy doesnt get below frezzing often.

bobafett
02-05-2004, 04:25 PM
what lines can i remove being an LXI? i want to get rid of all that shit from the black box. but im not sure what is good to remove and what is critical. lol

k-roy
02-06-2004, 01:51 AM
does removing the choke cause any starting problems? im in the south it realy doesnt get below frezzing often.

Yea I am in the south as well. Its the harshest part of winter right now and its not too bad of a problem. You have to give it some throttle on the start and warmup for at least the first minute or two. Once the motor is warm its all good. I usually smoke a cigerette and by the time its done its good to go.

Dragonfly
02-06-2004, 12:56 PM
ok all done ever last hose is gone..... ackk she runs like chit and smokes...ohh that steam not smoke grrr stupid auto zone carb gasket ........this thing realy gonna run with half its guts gone??

k-roy
02-06-2004, 03:05 PM
what lines can i remove being an LXI? i want to get rid of all that shit from the black box. but im not sure what is good to remove and what is critical. lol
The whole setup is completely different. Plus a carb has 5 times the lines involved so this mod makes a big big differance.


ok all done ever last hose is gone..... ackk she runs like chit and smokes...ohh that steam not smoke grrr stupid auto zone carb gasket ........this thing realy gonna run with half its guts gone??
Hell yea, if you did it correctly.

wprocomp
02-06-2004, 03:45 PM
I really dont reccomend removing your vaccum lines if you dont know what you are doing...you could permenitly screw your car....but its sure as hell worth it~!

Dragonfly
02-07-2004, 01:06 PM
any one got a list of what all the vacum ports on the carb do... i wanna keep my ac idle up and vacum sec. (i can always make it manual l8ter) i seam to have a spare port .... any help would be uuhhhh help full lol

Dragonfly
02-07-2004, 07:23 PM
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/12/web/516000-516999/516132_2.jpg

what does this stipd thing go to on the carb? thier the fule line port, a caped off port in blue but whats the roundish thing on the left? :help:

MattsAccord
02-07-2004, 07:35 PM
what lines can i remove being an LXI? i want to get rid of all that shit from the black box. but im not sure what is good to remove and what is critical. lol
Talk to Justin86 he did it on his car. :cool2:

bobafett
02-07-2004, 09:41 PM
cool i will get ahold of him :)

Dragonfly
02-08-2004, 09:29 AM
YESSS i got it all to work dammmmmm its kicks ass compared to how it used to run THANKS!!!

A20A1
02-09-2004, 12:03 AM
the diagram lets you keep the choke... the vacuum secondary... and A/C Idle boost... thats why I drew up a new diagram.
you gotta look in the how-to section of the board.
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?p=354339

Dragonfly
02-09-2004, 06:31 PM
i thought the fast idle woulednt work. :werd: i had the car siting on a lift at school seting the timing and the car idled down.... what exacly controls that? i have no choke, be nice if i can have the car idle up when its cold

HondaBoy
02-09-2004, 06:45 PM
dont know if this is the same you talking about but my car will idle itself up to 3000 rpm if i dont touch the gas when i first start it in the mornings or when engine is cold. anyway, this weekend if i dont get the weber, i will probley try out the emission removal. even if i get the weber, its going to need work so i will have to leave the stock carb on.

AkDale
02-28-2004, 07:42 PM
Hi all,
I have spent quite a few hours surfing your pages and have learned a lot in a hurry from a few of you knowlegable gurus. What a wonderful thing the WWW is.
I just acquired an 87 Accord that has a 2 liter carbed engine in it.
All appears to be factory.
The hot idle is terrible and engine wants to die.
Cold idle works great.
Timing is set to specs, Valves are set to specs.
Cannot find any vaccum leaks.
Do you believe that the vaccum removal procedure may resolve this problem?
If I do this mod, I would like to leave the vaccum choke ,the vaccum secondary and the cruise control.
How does this procedure affect the fuel mileage?
Is there a down side to this mod other than dealing with the SMOG Nazis?
Thanx,
Dale

k-roy
02-28-2004, 07:49 PM
It sounds like your idle needs adjusted while the car is fully warmed up. Check the howto section for a couple differant articles on that.
After doing this trick you will still need to tweak the carb a little. It should help give you car a more steady idle. I removed my choke because it was inopritive, you can still use the vacuum secondary and the cruise control, just do not disconnect them and make sure they still have a vacuum source.
I think I actually get better milage after this mod. I can't really see any other problems, minus getting it past inspections (witch I don't have).

AkDale
02-29-2004, 12:36 AM
It sounds like your idle needs adjusted while the car is fully warmed up. Check the howto section for a couple differant articles on that.
After doing this trick you will still need to tweak the carb a little. It should help give you car a more steady idle. I removed my choke because it was inopritive, you can still use the vacuum secondary and the cruise control, just do not disconnect them and make sure they still have a vacuum source.
I think I actually get better milage after this mod. I can't really see any other problems, minus getting it past inspections (witch I don't have).

Thanks for the reply.
My choke is working great. I tried to adjust the idle while engine was up to temp.---Turned in the throttle stop screw 'bout 1 turn. The engine idles at 1200 rpm +- 100. It still sounds like an intermittent miss , but at least it is not dieing.
Earlier today, I turned the idle back down to 1000 rpm---Engine sometimes idles really rough, slowly loses rpm then dies. Sometimes on its own, after having lost several hundred rpm, the engine revs up to about 2000 rpm, then settles back to about 1000 rpm. It never has a smoothe idle.

Is it true that the distys. go bad fairly often in these engines? How to check?
Thanks,
Dale

k-roy
02-29-2004, 01:17 AM
A distributor failing is not uncommon for our cars.

My idle has never really been smooth, untill recently when I installed an Accel coil.
It idles smoothe, revs quicker and I think I am getting a bit better mileage.

You might still have a small vacuum leak. Check the hose that goes to the brake booster. Then redo what 5 or so hoses you have and double check all the vacuum caps. It could also be a leaking carb to manifold gasket. After that I don't know what to tell you, other than keep turning those screws till you get the perfect setting.
The two other possibilities are the distributor or the carb needs rebuilt. If anyone knows how to test a distributor when its outside of the car I want to know.

accordlxi2.0
03-03-2004, 03:20 PM
:cool2: i don't know if this should b in performance or what. it's up to tha mod's.
but today i removed the air jet controller , plug the line's, removed the two of those white thingy's. i left the one that's connected to the egr.
redid my custom "air filter" moved it torward's the finder.
started it up let it run till it warmed up. Tuned the A/F screw.
now the car perform's better. :rockon:
that hesitation problem is still there about 95% of it went away. :rolleyes:
and the powerband does'nt drop as much like it used to.
man it feel's just like my :bow: lxi
:cheers:

Bryan
03-03-2004, 05:48 PM
You should get some pics of it.

sporkHSP
03-03-2004, 07:49 PM
god, i wish i wasnt retarded, then i might be able to do something worthwhile to my car and be happy with it...

accordlxi2.0
03-03-2004, 07:57 PM
you could it's simple.
in about 2 week's i'll take pic's.
the response is nice.
it peel's out ;spin's both wheel's :tongue:
orignaly on carb accord's
speed @ 60mph w/ locked t/c 2800rpms
before i did this with the other modification's it was 60mph w/ locked t/c about 2400rpms.
i'm gonna go place's tomarrow where it require's hiway drive's so i'll tell you the improvment's.

accordlxi2.0
03-23-2004, 08:11 AM
well for quite sometime my car had this smell of gas, i thought maybe it was due to the pump accel. having some gas on the outside, sometime's but it did'nt yesterday and i still smelled gas.
today i was looking and one of the line's i had plugged was wet i wiped it with my finger smeled it and it smelled like gas.
it does'nt have a number on it, i never touched that line i just plugged it, but from what i seen from the how to's it look like it's from vacuum port airjet controller letter A.
is this normal, i think maybe this was the reason why it may have hesitation. . . . . . . . .anyone :dunno: , any advice is appriciated
thanx's

shepherd79
03-23-2004, 09:39 AM
there shouln't be any fuel there.
i think your carb needs new gaskets. get the rebuild kit and rebuild the carb. don't forget to clean it while you rebuilding it.
is your carb running rich?

A20A1
03-23-2004, 11:34 AM
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=31606
My last post in that thread touches on a problem simmilar to what you're experiencing.

I would seriously check the top hat gasket though.
and check to see that the float level doesn't sit above the halfway mark by too much.

accordlxi2.0
03-23-2004, 01:15 PM
oh . . . . .don't mean to sound like a retard . . . . .so your saying i should take that line and add it to a manifold vacuum???



oh and shepard i will check the top of the carb.

Mike's89AccordLX
03-23-2004, 01:28 PM
Mike I was planning on rebuilding my carb next week and I saw that www.carbsunlimited.com had two different rebuild kits. One was an aftermarket one (not Weber) but it came with the power valve in the kit and is only like $18.99 compared to $29.00 (and that doesn't come with the power valve)

And the floats are either brass or neoprene. What is the best to use?

I'm rebuilding it mainly b/c I'm finally putting on my custom weber intake manifold and I want to clean up my carb and fix the vacuum leak it has at the base of the carb.

I hooked up one of those smoke machines we have at our shop at school and you could see the smoke coming out between the carb adapter and carb base. So I'm thinking that the guy that helped me do it overtightend the adapter plate so it might have warped a bit. I plan to have that resurfaced so its perfectly flat.

But I just wanted your opinion on which carb kit and float you thought was best. And I figured I would post this here and let the others know since accordlxi2.0 will need one too.


-Mike

A20A1
03-23-2004, 01:48 PM
I said that manifold vacuum caused gas to go thru the air jet ports, so manifold vacuum is bad.

accordlxi2.0
03-23-2004, 03:53 PM
but that's the thing i took the air jet off, plug all the abc port's. and i belive the other line's are wet with gas too.
i can't leave them un capped cause the idle will be wierd fluntuating.
so anyone else with any sugestion . . . .

shepherd79
03-23-2004, 05:30 PM
when you removed the vacuum lines, which HOW TO did you follow?

accordlxi2.0
03-23-2004, 07:11 PM
let's see i removed the air jet controller, plugged those line.
took off throttle controller.
took off those plastic thing's that sit above the alternator, i did'nt take off the one connected to the egr valve, cause i still want that.
plugged the a/c idle boost since it does'nt work.
plugged the line's from the thermo valve's since those don't work.
i tapped direct manifold to the choke unloader and fast idle unloader (together).
the secondary is controlled by the solenoid but not by the thermovalve.
it was dark out but i was able to look at the top, but i did'nt take it off, cause it was dark.
but i seen two gasket's, they're two gaskets?!
i did'nt wanna connect the dizzy vac advance together cause i did this and it was worse.
i still want my secondary (elect. controlled)
my cruise
my choke
unless i can start my car with out it.

that's about it did i do something wrong??????

A20A1
03-23-2004, 08:48 PM
you mean two layers of gaskets? there should only be one... get a new top hat gasket.

accordlxi2.0
03-24-2004, 06:13 AM
then this should solve that gas smell problem too right, and what about those a,b,c, port's? like i said i can't leave them un capped.

shepherd79
03-24-2004, 12:07 PM
look here http://members.fortunecity.com/accordex87/how_to_remove_the_vacuum_lines.htm
and tell me what lines did you pluged.

pip
03-24-2004, 12:23 PM
if ur float level is too high ur going to leak gas every where theres a chance it could be going into the vac. lines

accordlxi2.0
03-24-2004, 05:17 PM
let's see i plugged,
the A,B,C, port's took the air jet out.
i plugged those plastic thing's that sat above the alternator, i think those were air control valve's
plugged all the ports that were conected to the thermovalve.
so the fast idle unloader and choke unloader are in the same line.
plugged the a/c idle boost cause i think it does'nt work.
plugged the line that conneted to the air pulser.

so what i do wrong.

accordlxi2.0
03-24-2004, 05:23 PM
UPDATE:::
i know some of yall may be disappointed in me, but i took one of the top gasket off and left which ever was better on.
wiped off the top and cleaned as best i could cause i did'nt have any carb cleaner.
umm let's see . . . .i connected everything back plugged that port bac.
i started it up and the float shot up over the glass, the engine was stumbling.
i was able to get the level back, and i turned the a/f screw and with 1 turn it idle like nothing.
drove it and the acceleration is better.
the gas smeel is'nt as bad as it would be.
but i still have another problem, when i disconnected vac. line 25 from the distributor, vacuum was still there, is'nt vacuum only supposed to be there when the engine is cold?

shepherd79
03-24-2004, 05:33 PM
let me ask you a question? are you trying to keep the choke?
because if you are not follow my how to http://members.fortunecity.com/accordex87/how_to_remove_the_vacuum_lines.htm

if you want to keep the choke follow Mike's (A20A1) how to http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=11067

i really don't know what you did, but it sounds like your carb needs major adjusting.

accordlxi2.0
03-24-2004, 05:42 PM
yea . . . itrying to keep the choke but . . . . . . .like i said before if i can start her with out the choke then i really dont need it.
damn i thought someone whould know about those plastic thing's that sit's above the alternator.
i plug those.
i did'nt connect the secondary vac. port directly to the secondary.


wait a minute so those three port's at the top of the carb. in the back are supposed to be plugged.

forgive me man for being an ass.
i don't know honda carb's like i would gm's.
and i'm more intouch with efi's than carb's.
thanx!!

shepherd79
03-24-2004, 06:05 PM
if you look at my how to, i completly removed every single thing. i just had one vacuum line running to the carb, intake manifold and distributor.
i had no problem running.
i didn't have the choke.

accordlxi2.0
03-25-2004, 05:38 AM
that's wierd cause when i set the throttle controller the right way one of the guy's on the baord said that the choke should be set.
which one of the reason the car would start ; to set the choke, now the t/c set it, but i still would have to push the gas in oder for it to start.
don't ask me way but i still wanna keep my FIU, egr, cruise.
and secondary.

how are you able to start with out a choke, . . . . . .u still have to push the gas right?

A20A1
03-25-2004, 02:00 PM
The float bowl will drain if the car sits... also the fuel line begins to empty... so it's gonna take a few turns of the key to fill the bowl.

Plastic things above the alt? are you keeping bits and peices of emissions equiptments and trying to remove the vacuum lines at the same time?
Uncharted territory. lol

I think you should connect the secondary directly to the port on the carb...
The float level went over the middle of the window? and you said you adjusted the A/F screw did you mean the float screw?

accordlxi2.0
03-25-2004, 03:16 PM
um wait so after tha car sit's awhile the fuel bowl drain's???! no wonder.
so how much though hmmm?
yea i'm trying to keep some of the emission's. so you really think that i should do that to the secondary? will it be more responsive, and gain a lil' more power?
yea the float overfilled when i took off one of the gasket's put everything back on then started it up then it filled up, but i turn the screw quite a few time's in order for it to go down.
the engine was making popping sound's and it seemed like it was "trying to find" the right idle, cause it was fluntuating.
so went a barely turned the a/f srew the idle was perfect, but i think it still has a leak, so i'm gonna check when i have some more time.
thanx man.

A20A1
03-25-2004, 03:22 PM
hmm about that float level setting, you shouldn't have to turn the screw that mcuh... you might have a leak from one of the o-rings... sometimes its sealed and other times it leaks... I don't think the extra layer of gasket would have thrown your float level off by much... I would get a handful of new o-rings from a hardware store or something to replace the 2 that are on there just to be safe. then readjust the float level.
The sizes are a bit hard to find... I don't remember what they were...

accordlxi2.0
03-28-2004, 05:10 PM
i'm back i did'nt get to finish the line's like you guy's have, i know i've made some error.
but i have a couple more question's.

okay where the charcol canister is there is a plastic hose that's leading from the bottom.
when i had the car on a lift and the engine runnig, i felt air comiing from out of this hose is this normal???

accordlxi2.0
04-01-2004, 04:24 PM
okay i basically did what you guy's did.
the secondary is connected to the carb.
and i was reading about what mike had said, about the accel pump , and the secondary opening faster, so that's what happen's, which is why i have to make a air filter and move the filter further away from the carb . . . again.
the choke unloader and fast idle unloader is connected the same.
and for some reason, vac line #25 is getting vacuum too.
when i dissconnected the line and pluged it the idle remained the same connected it back, it went up.
all, A, B, C, carb port's are plugged.
the trottle controller is tapped right into the manafold.
i over rode the thermo valve's, cause no of them work's.


oh yea a20, you said that the float bowl's empty's out, but it was'nt it was below the bottom line, but there was gas in the and the throttle controller reset's the choke, so i would continuosly crank but it does'nt turn until i tap the gas.

i still don't get it though, why am i'm getting suck low gas milege . . . . . .

A20A1
04-01-2004, 07:14 PM
caused you plugged A B C... they lean the fuel mixture. If you remove it you use more fuel.

accordlxi2.0
04-01-2004, 07:25 PM
oh . . . i did'nt know that . . . . . and this hesitation is caused by the fact that the secondary open's qicker than before . . . right.

A20A1
04-02-2004, 12:22 AM
hmm with direct vacuum it should open on time, I think its a fuel problem... I know I used to have a stumble off the line, then i added the FPR to increase the fuel pressure and it totally got rid of the problem but add the a new problem which was the fuel lock out. I believe the only way to elliminate the hesitation is to upgrade the fuel pump... something that flows better.

A20A1
04-02-2004, 12:24 AM
The problem was a slight delay with the mechanical secondary, not vacuum secondary casue the lever sometimes didn't connect fully with the linkage... so there is this mico gap but it must make a big difference.

accordlxi2.0
04-02-2004, 01:50 PM
oh . . . .one more thing . . . i lnow, i know . . . . but please baer with me hear.
okay i have tha civic adapter air box on, when i had the top lid off and driving no problem, when i put it back on the performance sucked, i made the diamiter bigger, moved the "filter" more torward's the battery (it feel's like ima have to move it further)
it's been a little better,i don't see how it has the fuel lock out, due to the accel. pump, squirting out fuel than spraying like it used too.

accordlxi2.0
04-03-2004, 08:06 PM
hey a20a1 also when i floor it (while moving ) or when the secondary open up, it run's rich (smell's like pumpkin seed's when mixture is rich).

accordlxi2.0
04-04-2004, 04:14 PM
anyone????????

soljaboy2000
04-04-2004, 07:08 PM
oh shit, a while ago I found fuel in that line (A) too but I thought it was normal....no problems......yet

accordlxi2.0
04-06-2004, 06:35 PM
okay i found where the gas smell was coming from . . .it the accel pump.
there's gas around it.

so i need somemore advice . . . .

okay when i checked the a/c idle boost w/ voltmeter, connected to black/red i was getting very little volt's like .300dc but when i connected the black lead to ground and had red lead to red wire i was getting 2.0 or more volt's is that right??????

plus should i just replace the bottom part of the pump accel or should i get a carb from the j/y.
i don't wanna get a new one cause i'll be converting.

SO any advice is welcomed . . . . . . .

A20A1
04-06-2004, 08:37 PM
well the accel pump diaphragm can be replaced... it will require you to remove the carb though... or if you have the emissions lines gone you could probably get away with the carb still installed.

accordlxi2.0
04-07-2004, 05:25 AM
you know what A20A1, i getting fed up, i go to start it this morning and i had the idle staedy and it went down, shut off, the POS had flooded, the float glass was overfilled, so i had to screw it down more gas came out from the top, i had to raise the thrttole stop screw too . . . . you think i should jus get one from the j/y. . . maybe it'll sovle my hesitation, flooding, bad mpg, popping problem.

oh what about my a/c boost issue????

A20A1
04-07-2004, 06:17 AM
I have no idea about the idle boost... thats the least of your worries.

replacing the o-rings is a snap... as long as they don't snap when you install the new ones. :)

You have 2 ways to get the float out of the way in order to remove the vloat valve... you can remove the metal pin that the float pivots on... or you can remove the retaining tab on the side of the float just enoug so you can squeeze the float past the stopper and out of the way of the float valve so you can remove the valve.

take the o-rings and valves to a store that sells 0-rings and try and find one that fits... you can go slightly larger but too large and the float screw wont go back in... on second thought bring the carb top hat with you as well, just make sure you save all the screws and any little part that comes off the top hat in a bag.

A20A1
04-07-2004, 06:21 AM
And don't lose the float needle. (on the right)

If you remove the retaining tab on the float... you'll have to refill the float bowl with gas and be very careful to set the float needle back inside the valve before reinstalling the top hat. The refilling of the float bow limits the float movement so it lessens the chance of the float dropping too far and the needle falling out of the valve.

A20A1
04-07-2004, 06:26 AM
If you have set your float too low that would cause your hesitation right there... it would also cause a lean mixture at idle and under throttle. The recent flooding was probably a broken o-ring, they sometimes seal themselves with enough playing around, but it's better to buy a few new ones.
As for the bad MPG, well it's hard to say, it could be too much throttle at idle because you were trying to keep the carb alive... and it could be a fuel leak either from the float screw or accel pump diaphragm. or the a/f screw is really far out and your slurping fuel at idle... but the a/f screw really shouldn't make that much of a difference.

A20A1
04-07-2004, 07:12 AM
I hope this helps some... the o-rings are very old and might have permanently streatched some when I removed them. But the measuremnts are fairly close.
- 3/8" Top O-ring
- 1/2" Lower O-ring

accordlxi2.0
04-07-2004, 07:08 PM
THANX A WHOLE MAN. I'Ma DO that. Well i had it at a proper level and it still did it, so the only thing i would need from the pump accel. is the bottom piece?
plus yesterday while driving i came to a stop and the idle was increasing from 800 to 1,000rpm in drive, then while in park it was about 1,300rpm.
so when i got to where i needed to be ,i shut it off, started back up and it was fine, in drive, but in park the idle fluntuated. plus there are various way's i can tell if the a/f mixture is rich or lean.
if the screw is in too far, the exhaust would make popping sound's at idle,
i think the carb reall need some claening.
so i'm gonna get some carb cleaner and seafoam stuff,
unless you have some more idea's

Pro_Mod_Accord
04-09-2004, 03:26 PM
First off, if it sounds like an internal miss, good possibility that your mixture is to rich.

Let me start off by saying that I had a hell of a time trying to dial in my Kliehn
Carb ( following the initial diagram ). What were you boys thinking? First off, by plugging the main air control jet (front of carb) you need to replace the main jets. The car will run way to rich, miss, deep-exhaust note, smoke, and run like shit.

If you don't want this hastle hook up your air jet controler to the air contol jets (2 slow air control jet(primary & secondary bore) & 1 main air control jet.

**By the way, not all carbed models have a air jet controler (Can. models).
>>>had to remove the one off of my parts car<<<

Car is good on gas, has an excellent bottom to mid-range hit (noticeable improvement)! :rice:

But the car runs a little lean on the top-end (no improvement). :dunno:

Any suggestions??

shepherd79
04-09-2004, 03:30 PM
i never had any problems.
i removed the air controler, and add another spacer in the middle of the carb.
it switched from running rich to running just right.

A20A1
04-09-2004, 03:46 PM
We know it runs rich... thats why I'm swapping mains and air correction in my keihin modding thread.

AkDale
04-09-2004, 04:44 PM
First off, if it sounds like an internal miss, good possibility that your mixture is to rich.



IT was the mixture.

I had to pull the carb to get to the mixture screw.
Put the carb back on, The carb was running so lean that I had to open the mixture screw by almost two turns.
I dont think there were any vac leaks, and if there were, they were cured when I put the carb back on.
Been driving it for almost two weeks 100+ miles per day. 34mpg. Idle is smooth. I am a happy camper. Don't think that I am going to try the Vac removal ---Until Necessary.
Thanks for the help.
Dale :rice:

A20A1
04-12-2004, 06:09 PM
All those pics still didn't get me to think about replacing the small filter on the float valve... well at least clean the darn thing... I bet a few of the members here could benifit some from cleaning that part out, as well as the float bowl, each time the other 2 fuel filters are replaced, and maybe even the strainer at the end of the fuel pickup inside the tank.
4 filters... what were they thinking? :D

accordlxi2.0
04-17-2004, 04:11 PM
HUH? what filter?.......

A20A1
04-17-2004, 04:16 PM
not a filter exactly, it's more like a screen. just slip it off and shoot it down with carb cleaner.

accordlxi2.0
04-17-2004, 04:19 PM
ummm where???? whould i be looking again???

A20A1
04-17-2004, 04:22 PM
the valve is the float adjustment screw itself... if you remove the screw you';; see the screen.

accordlxi2.0
04-17-2004, 04:28 PM
hmm, looks like i'll have alot to do . . . . .
okay thanx again, i know i'm bugging the shit out of ya, but how whould i clean the a/f port also too???????

A20A1
04-17-2004, 04:34 PM
take the top of the carb off, remove the screw but remember how many turns the screw is... like turn it in till it gets tight while counting the turns, then remove the screw... look for the open port above the float adjustment screw... then shoot the cleaner straight down and some cleaner should come out of the hole as well.

accordlxi2.0
04-17-2004, 04:36 PM
thanx!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i'll give you an update.

accordlxi2.0
04-19-2004, 07:40 AM
hey does anyone knows what a carb. thermovalve is, and what it does???????

A20A1
04-19-2004, 11:26 AM
I thought you knew? there are like 3 thermovalves, 2 on the back of the manifold and 1 on the thermostat... or do you mean like an internal valve, I think someone posted a very detailed carb pic with a small copper/brass diaphragm... that might have been temp controlled.

accordlxi2.0
04-19-2004, 07:25 PM
oh i know those thermovalve's, but this one is mounted on the driver side of the carb.
it has a tiny ass vac line going to it, but it has a big ass line leaving from it.
i checked with the engine warm, it's not holding vacuum. . . . .
the reason i asked cause, it been about 80* once the engine temp reaches it's piont and i'm sitting in traffic the idle goes up , one time it even went up to 1,300rpms! while in drive!
what up with that??

oh BTW i like your idea , when you turn the ign. key 2x's and then start it up . . .

accordlxi2.0
04-22-2004, 05:23 AM
oh . . . man . . . . . okay, but i was talking about the hole's where the air/fuel goes in, i would'nt even think about porting the venturi's . . . . . . . .

A20A1
04-22-2004, 02:22 PM
I didn't mean to get jumpy but it's always a good idea to make a new thread or to ask car technical or performance related questions in a thread instead of in a PM so I don't have to answer the same question again when someone else asks it.

accordlxi2.0
04-22-2004, 05:29 PM
okay, man it's a big difference, the hesitation is still there but not as much as it used to be, it purr's, no poping, it has more power on the low-end.
but i think the secondary is running rich i think.

accordlxi2.0
04-26-2004, 12:28 PM
it's me again, so far the gas milege is good i drove for about 63miles and the gauge read's a little past full.
but i still have one problem, if i'm still sitting in traffic once it reaches it's normal temp. i push the gas it stay's idled @ 1,000 rpm, in drive but in park it went up to about 1,500 . . . . .how in the hell do you disable this carb thermovalve.

A20A1
04-26-2004, 12:55 PM
well of course the idle will raise to 1500 in neutral.
From 900 mine would usually go to 1,200 in neutral.
It just seems like the idle adjustment is off (idle diaphragm / throttle controller - left side of carb)... you should make all the adjustments while the car is fully warm.

I forgot what you have written in past posts but have you ever changed the top hat gasket... a lot of internal carb leaks can be solved from replacing the gasket... oh fuck me.... fuuuck me I just remembered something... I figured out why gas was in the air jet controller on this one guys car... gawd damn. but yeah he needs to replace that gasket too.

accordlxi2.0
04-26-2004, 01:50 PM
um yea . . . ., but as for my idle rasing the idle booster solenoid and a/c ilde solennoid is not conected to the diapram . . . one being i forgot how it was conected . . do you????

plus everytime it does raise up i put my foot under the padel and lightly pull it and it.
and it goes down, my idle in drive is @650rpm (i think it's the line under 1,000rpm???)
and when it's in park i say about 900-1,000rpm's.. . . . . . .

i really apriciate your help man i'm sorry for all these qusetion's i'm asking . . . . just trying 2 be experieced as you are . . . . . . .

A20A1
04-26-2004, 03:39 PM
so your pedal/cable is getting stuck... you still have the choke function though... maybe it's the fast idle crap.

the idle diaphragm hooks to a manifold vacuum port... so hook it to a main line that comes off the manifold. The a/c idle boost does the same but it first goes to a solenoid then to manifold vacuum.

A20A1
04-26-2004, 03:53 PM
if you want to remove the thermovalves just plug all the vacuum lines... where do they connect to anyways? you're not talking about the float bowl vent are you? cause that is mounted on the carb and has a small vacuum line on it and a big vacuum line.

accordlxi2.0
04-26-2004, 05:06 PM
yea that's the one but on my manual it's called a carb. thermovalve.
it's wierd that you say the pedal get's stuck cause it does'nt do it with the engine is cold, or warm but when it reaches normal temp, that's when it'll do it . . . . .

accordlxi2.0
04-26-2004, 05:08 PM
plus the um . . . . . fast idle unloader is connected to a manafold line.

oh as for the 2 solenoid's i think i got em mixed up as for connecting it, . . . .

accordlxi2.0
04-29-2004, 02:15 PM
hey a20a1 how's 210 on a full tank in the city. . . . . .
well first it was still full around the first 50mile's, then on 1/2 mark it was 150, now's it's 210 . . . . . .
maybe i should've clean all the vacuum line's . . .

accordlxi2.0
05-01-2004, 06:18 PM
(knocking) . . . . hello anyone here ??????

A20A1
05-01-2004, 06:24 PM
sorry, I really don't keep track of milage to know any better.

accordlxi2.0
05-01-2004, 07:55 PM
well i know that i'm not supposed to get 210 on a full tank i filled it today i drove on the hiway and city and got about 75 and it's not no where near the 1/2 mark

A20A1
05-01-2004, 10:58 PM
If you have a flat head 1/8" wide then you can remove the idle jet and clean it... I just looked in some of my used carbs and found the idle jet clogged with all sorts of gunk... might want to check that out just becasue... it may be tricky to extract it when you can't til the carb to make the jet fall out of it's hole... perhaps and small pick and fish it out.

accordlxi2.0
05-03-2004, 03:52 PM
huh????????
the idle jet which one is that??

A20A1
05-03-2004, 07:29 PM
open up the top hat of the carb and look between the float bowl and the primary barrel... it's down in one of the holes.

accordlxi2.0
05-04-2004, 05:44 PM
thanx man i'll try to do that tomarrow plus i think i know what the other problem is . . . .everytime the secondary open's it run's rich i mean you can smell it, is there a way to get rid of this problem???? or do you think that when i move the air filter further that'll take care of the problem???

accordlxi2.0
05-12-2004, 12:38 PM
okay i clean everything again, and i put on a msd coil, now i adjusted the a/f screw i do it both way's, one by idle and the other is exhuast popping sound, and usally it does'nt pop when the screw is far out (or easy to turn) but today it did'nt pop until the rpm's reached about 750, which seemed good to me . . . . . . .
and it does'nt do the take off hesitation as much i say 10% left is due to the filter.
the gas smell was the pump accel. loose i tighted on the 4/29.
now it loose again, (i guess due to heat or me not tighting as much as i should).

but a few more problem's still remain, my a/c solenoid, since i'm guessing that's it's a ground problem i tried goin near a better ground, still the volt's did'nt change . . . .
plus the idle problem, . . . . .i'm really pissed, it like once it get's hot under the hood, you push the gas and it goes up and stay's at 1,000rpm's.
today it was worse it got up too 1,600rpm's,in drive!!!!!!!!
can someone help me PLEASE??????

A20A1
05-12-2004, 01:10 PM
are you sure your throttle stop screw or idle diaphragm isn't set too high? When you have too much throttle it becomes harder to idle and you pull less gas thru the idle circuit... and adjustments to the idle circuit don't have as big as an affect ans it would if the throttle was closed more...

accordlxi2.0
05-12-2004, 01:42 PM
nope everything is fine, in fact i think it's temp related because it was raining i just got in, and teh engine temp was lower than normal, and it did'nt do it at all, do you think i need a new ecu, cause like i said the a/c solenoid and that other solenoid ( i think the idle control solenoid) is beside the a/c soleniod, is not getting any voltage either, now the solenoid by the wiper motor is though . . . . .i'm pissed make's me wanna sell the car . . . . . .

A20A1
05-13-2004, 03:51 PM
isn't the A/C solenoid the one by the wiper motor though... I forget.

accordlxi2.0
05-14-2004, 06:18 PM
hmmm i don't think so and if it is then thats stuck on , now another problem arises . . . .i belive there is a vac. leak within the fast idle unloader, cause i can start it WITHOUT pumping the gas. YAY, but the idle stay's high up to 1,400 rpm's and wont go down until the engine is a little warm, and i push the gas.
not even cause as soon as i turned it off it started doing it again, but this time it did'nt go down . . unless i adjusted the throttle stop and throttle controller so now my rpm's is at 300rpm's in drive.
are you sure that this "ecu" is'nt capable of doing anything.
if it is should i replace it????

A20A1
05-15-2004, 01:53 AM
it's capable... of turning on and off the solenoids in the black box.. which can bleed vacuum or hold it... I just don't see it malfunctioning.

I just took apart a fast idle unloader, how do you know it's leaking? it's seems very beefy and a hard part to start leaking... maybe one of the vacuum lines but the diaphragms are tough... there is the internal vacuum line to the choke opener that may influence the fast idle unloader thru vacuum line from the choke opener.

problem is the bolt holding the choke opener to the carb is hard to get to, so it wont be easy to tighten or replace the o-ring in there if it was leaking.



so you turned the car off and then started it and the idle was really high? that doesn't make sense how you would need to drop the throttle to 300 to kick it off high idle?

Just set the throttle stop to the lowest possible running idle after the car is fuly warmed and you have passed that point where your car is hot and chooses to raise the idle... then go ahead and raise the idle to something more stable using the throttle controller... also you might find it better to connect the throttle controller directly to manifold vacuum, bypassing the check valve and any other solenoids or valves.

I'm not stopping you from replacing the ECU... if you are sure it's the problem.

accordlxi2.0
05-15-2004, 05:57 PM
ummm . . .look man first off i wanna say thanx for seeing me trough this, i really apriciate it.
well i've been having it idle at 250 in drive.
it's like when i had shut it off, for about 10-20 minute's the temp was within the normal area but it was low, it still high idled, till i pushed the gas.

the reason i suspect the fiu, cause when i start the car i don't have to push the gas for one, then it idle's at 1,000rpm's.
which i love it's like having efi again.
when this first happenedi took the hose out of the connector, then reconnect it the idle went down, plus when you close the choke and kinda pull the throttle cable it goes into fast idle mode, but before i could'nt make do it (that was my plan cause i did'nt want it to.)

so maybe the choke puller thingy is causing it to fuck up hmm . . .

accordlxi2.0
09-29-2004, 04:17 PM
i'ma little concerned okay the engine sound's like it's shooting out air or something, and i found the problem.
the previous owner looks like he attempted to do a tune up, and screw in one of the sparkplug's wrong.
plus the spark plug was nearly out, but when i took out the sparkplug a few of the thread's looked stripped.
i put it back, until someone can give me some info , if my the cylinder haed is not messed up??
plus the cylinder head is new too!
so did the previous owner screw up the sparkplus hole??


plus i took a look at the carb, thier's alot of brown stuff around the secondary barrel, too.
then on the pass. side (when engine warm) thier's these 2 solenoid's i think that control's the throttle thingy, but they constantly click on and off, is this normal?
then when the engine is cold on the driver side there are these 2 solenoid's by the wiper motor they click on and off until the engine warm's.
a few day's ago i let it warm up, ran it, turned it off, and helped my dad with his car, and once i went to put it in the garage.
i go to start it, and it sounding like it was out of gas, then all of a sudden it revved to 1,500rpm's then normal idle.

then when the engine warm's, you push the gas and it'll hold to 2,000rpm's.
it's something holding it . . . . .
can anyone shed some light on this . . . . . . .

A20A1
09-29-2004, 04:39 PM
That frequency solenoid is the clicky one I think...

Anyways seems like you need to clean the carb.

accordlxi2.0
09-29-2004, 05:02 PM
yea i'm gonna, once i get some more money.

but what about the spark plug thingy??

Ludi Mali
09-29-2004, 07:41 PM
if the threads in the hole are stripped i think you're screwed, yuou'd have to have it re-threaded, but if its just the spark plugs then you could just buy new ones. not sure if the threads on the spark plugs are strong enough to strip the threads in the engine.