bscanlan' Hatch Build - The Sequel

[bscanlan]

It's been a while since I've been on the site here. My '88 Coupe build went well and netted my some experience with the platform. 75557556

Now I get to try my hand at a hatch. I actually saw this beauty first on 3geez Facebook. She just arrived today after I got her in a government auction. Plans begin now, I just wanted to introduce her. Name -tbd?
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I have one of the Mosselman turbo manifolds from the recent group buy, so who knows where this one goes. Should be fun!

[Dr_Snooz]

Cool stuff!

[nastytee]

It looks great!

[bscanlan]

Thanks! My research thus far tells me it's a North Carolina car which explains the cleanliness. I am going to pull-a-part tomorrow for some odds and ends, and then getting ready to have a key made to test the internals. I will post more pics of the disassembly soon.

[bscanlan]

Weather is breaking here in Ohio, and so the shop starts to heat up. Here is recent motor-pull progress from the weekend.
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[bscanlan]

Ok, so it’s been more than a while since I’ve posted. My ‘89 Hatch build continues, albeit methodically and slow. I wanted to catch everyone up, so here goes. Since Covid has given me more than normal time this spring and summer, I have been able to complete the lion’s share of the repair, reuse, restore portion of the build. I started it off a couple of years ago by purchasing an 80 gal. 2-stage compressor (since I did the whole coupe build mostly with a 110 piece craftsman socket set). I follow that this winter with a sandblasting cabinet, Branik strut compressor, and parts washer.
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[bscanlan]

So with the car on stands and pretty well disassembled, I began assessing, blasting, priming, and epoxy painting suspension parts. I went with all black urethane bushings, ST sway bars, and ST (2”) Speedtech lowering springs. I then happened upon an SEi on a yard in Pittsburg, so I got the rear trailing arms and knuckles, and proportioning valve.
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[bscanlan]

Engine got the full cleaning, and then Eastwood epoxy engine paint. I got a full DnJ engine kit, so timing belt, water pump, oil pump, gaskets, blah blah blah; and the engine is now making the steady climb back.
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[bscanlan]

Engine bay is next. I pulled the rear crossmember, discarded the rack and got a reman. I also enlarged the strut tower holes for Cheddas extended top hats. Now it’s time to remove the seam sealer, and do a few deletes; prep, prime, and paint the bay; and then get moving on body work. Then it’s suspension reassembly and some sacrificial Steele’s so I can roll her around and get ready for color. I hope to continue to this point even before the snow flies here in northern Ohio. Then it’s on to OBD1 conversion, and mating that Mosselman up!
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Oh, and I did Eastwood Extreme (Ceramic) Chassis Black on the full undercarriage and the wells.
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[Oldblueaccord]

Hey thats looking good.

Could you, if you think of it, take pictures of the bushings that go with the subframes to the car body. I'm just curious what they look like and if there is something that could need an upgrade in the future...like solid bushings.

I have never had mine this far apart.

[glutenfree]

Those parts are SUPER clean mate.

Gonna havta step up my game!

[Jinnai]

I love it. I'll do my best on my build too, but I don't have quite that many tools or resources.

[bscanlan]

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Here is a cross member close-up.

[bscanlan]

Thanks again for the kudos, it is great encouragement!

I was able to: prep, prime, paint, and clear the bay...finally.
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[bscanlan]

With Ohio weather finally breaking, the shop has seen some reassembly! I’m hoping to have full suspension reassembled in a few weeks. Engine assembly and install next!
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[bscanlan]

Sway bar time.
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[Oldblueaccord]

I spy some custom lower links there as well.....

[Dr_Snooz]

Yay for pics! Yay for progress!

[bscanlan]

Indeed! Cheddas is all over this build. Big shout out to Jordain for showing the 3g some love. More pics to come.

[Oldblueaccord]

Indeed! Cheddas is all over this build. Big shout out to Jordain for showing the 3g some love. More pics to come.

Wha? Those dont look like "hack to fit" Civic parts?!?! :eek::eek:

[ShiRen]

Uuuuuuh, wtf. Those are the arms he's selling? That's nothing like what he shows on the site if I am seeing that correctly. Those look like a tapped piece of extruded hex aluminum with heim joints, the description even says they're chromoly steel. I thought those were something you made so I wasn't going to say anything, if you paid $410 for those you got fucking shafted, that's not ok.

[bscanlan]

Correct, those are aluminum. I had the option, and chose those for weight. Can’t recall what I paid for them, but I like them; what I was looking for.

I’ll post more pics as I have more assembled.:rockon:

[ShiRen]

Ok... If he gave you the choice that's better, I hope it was a significant discount off what he currently sells the arms for. If those are extruded aluminum the problem is they will very likely break, if this was a diy arm them yeehaw, adjustable arms (honestly it never even crossed my mind to make something like this), if they break then make another set. If it was like an A arm instead of a single link I would guess the chromoly would be lighter than an equivalent aluminum arm, and that means aluminum tube and well braced for strength, that and steel is all around a much better material to make the parts out of. They aren't cast so weight shouldn't be too much of a concern, and the stock rear arms are stamped from thick sheet metal, so they aren't very heavy either.

I don't want to sound like I'm giving you a hard time, I was just concerned you got jipped. I wouldn't worry about strength unless you find one snapped after you hit a pot hole, and the rear suspension in these cars can't be tightened up enough with the parts we have available where the flexibility of steel vs aluminum is going to make much difference in handling.

[bscanlan]

I agree that strength is the concern, but as it’s not getting race car stresses, I feel relatively comfortable with them. I like the figment, but the proof is in the pudding, so we shall see.

[Oldblueaccord]

Also does away with the cam bolt design.

[bscanlan]

Ok, now I really need help. I purchased a new stage 3 spec clutch and a brand new Luk flywheel for this auto to manual swap project. With the pressure plate lined up to the guide pins it appears that the clutch and fly wheel do not lineup properly. I got another cheap fly wheel brand new, and another 0E clutch both through rock auto, and regardless of the combination I seem to still get the same misalignment. How much is this me as a transmission noob, and how much is remarkably bad luck in purchasing two of each, and no combo that works?10860
In the pic I have the pressure plate lined up with the guide pins and bolt holes, but the three protrusions on the pressure plate friction surface don’t fall into the three voids on he flywheel. I removed the guide pins on the cheaper flywheel so they could line up and fall kn to place, but now no bolt holes line up.

[TubeEmu]

Ok, now I really need help. I purchased a new stage 3 spec clutch and a brand new Luk flywheel for this auto to manual swap project. With the pressure plate lined up to the guide pins it appears that the clutch and fly wheel do not lineup properly. I got another cheap fly wheel brand new, and another 0E clutch both through rock auto, and regardless of the combination I seem to still get the same misalignment. How much is this me as a transmission noob, and how much is remarkably bad luck in purchasing two of each, and no combo that works?10860
In the pic I have the pressure plate lined up with the guide pins and bolt holes, but the three protrusions on the pressure plate friction surface don’t fall into the three voids on he flywheel. I removed the guide pins on the cheaper flywheel so they could line up and fall kn to place, but now no bolt holes line up.same thing is happening for me bought a clutch and flywheel on rockauto and it won't line up

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[Dr_Snooz]

I can't say I'm sure what the problem is, but the pins aren't evenly spaced around the outside of the flywheel. In other words, the pressure plate only goes on in one orientation. Even then, some force is required to seat it as the pins don't precisely center in the holes.

That said, my new clutch doesn't release for some reason. I wonder if this isn't my problem as well. When I'm done replacing the engine in my new daily driver, I'll tear the 3g down again and have a look. Stay tuned for more.

[bscanlan]

Thanks Snooz I appreciate your perspective.

[bscanlan]

As I look closer at your post Snooz, you say that the clutch won’t release. Do you mean that it won’t engage or disengage when you depress the clutch? We may be talking about the same thing. Because they are not lining up for me, upon torquing down my six pressure plate bolts I have essentially pushed the diaphragm spring all the way in such that the clutch will not engage. It’s like the pedal is always pushed in from what I can see. Obviously I have not reassembled the motor and put it back in the car, but that diaphragm spring is not in a position it should be as soon as I put the pressure plate on and torque the bolts.

[Oldblueaccord]

It was the same for me I couldnt find a stock flywheel/clutch plate that would go together. I ended up with a clutch net setup which absolutely sucks ass he is a crook.

[ShiRen]

https://actionclutch.com/products/honda-accord-84-87-aluminum-flywheel?rq=mk_honda~md_accord~yr_1984-1987-2-0l
Somebody tell me if this thing fits

https://actionclutch.com/pages/product-result?rq=mk_honda~md_accord~yr_1986-1989-2-0l
Paired with one of these

[Oldblueaccord]

https://actionclutch.com/products/honda-accord-84-87-aluminum-flywheel?rq=mk_honda~md_accord~yr_1984-1987-2-0l
Somebody tell me if this thing fits

https://actionclutch.com/pages/product-result?rq=mk_honda~md_accord~yr_1986-1989-2-0l
Paired with one of these


If its LA stay away...I just cant do business in Cali its hopeless.

Nice piece made in the USA just seems to good to be true.

I wish I remember what combination of parts I bought to get everything to work. Im pretty sure I bought 3 flywheels before I found one that the pins were indexed correctly and its warped right outta the box.

[ShiRen]

Action clutch is pretty reputable. I would really like to know as its the lightest flywheel you can get for an A series, and the highest clamping force pressure plate. You can get clutch disks all day long from ACT and the likes though.
B series trans is the future for these cars though

[Shane86]

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Stage 3

[ShiRen]

Is that just a clutch or flywheel as well?

[Shane86]

Is that just a clutch or flywheel as well?

Just the clutch for now

[ShiRen]

The flywheel does raise some questions because their year ranges for the accord aren't correct, and it doesn't show up under the 3g date range, only the 87 and earlier, but then in the name it says 86-89... I hope that it actually fits

[Shane86]

The flywheel does raise some questions because their year ranges for the accord aren't correct, and it doesn't show up under the 3g date range, only the 87 and earlier, but then in the name it says 86-89... I hope that it actually fits

I know I seen that makes me iffey about it

[ShiRen]

Have you checked the fitment of that clutch on an oem flywheel yet?

[Shane86]

Have you checked the fitment of that clutch on an oem flywheel yet?

Not yet. just got a email from action they can't even make the flywheel
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[ShiRen]

That hurts
a2b is the only option for a performance trans then

[Oldblueaccord]

Lemme find my shocked emojii....not for they dont make it but they didnt send you the incorrect one anyway.

There is two flywheels listed on rockauto for about 25$ in the discount parts section.

[ShiRen]

I got my flywheel from Oreillys and it fit my exedy fine. Its the Rockauto ones I would be worried about not fitting. I'm only upset there is not even a prospect of a lightweight flywheel anymore. If the one from Action didn't fit then :dunno: as long as they take it back. If they don't then that's why I always use paypal for online shops.

[bscanlan]

So I am lucky to work at a Career Tech High School with a great machine shop. I had one of our awesome seniors mill out some beef and now the disc and pressure plate seem to fit better. I had to tighten down just a fraction of the diaphragm spring to get the pressure plate seated, but I think I will have plenty of travel…we will see. Motor goes in within the next month or so, so I can hook up my new clutch cable and see what she feels like.

As a side note, I originally got the Luk flywheel, then bought the cheaper Sachs (both Rock), and it was the Sachs I had milled. I figured I wasn’t sacrificing much money. I also pulled the alignment pins because…well they suck. I’ll keep you all posted.
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[ShiRen]

Well... That might be one way to do it

[88LXi68]

This looks like a really cool build. As I was reading through your thread, my flywheel solution was to take it to a machine shop to lighten it and have the alignment pins rectified, but looks like that is exactly what you did. Again, looks great and I can't wait to see the finished product.

[bscanlan]

Thank you 🙏 I too am looking forward to the finished product. I finished blasting, priming, and painting my rear calipers (to match the Wilwood fronts) and the rear trans mount, so motor goes in soon. I’ll post up some updates.

[bscanlan]

O…K…so today was motor drop day! :beer: I am running Cheddas solid front cross member, and I swapped auto-to-manual (yeah I know Snooz). So in doing so I have 3 motor mounts; when an auto it had 6. Am I concerned…mildly but what the hell. Then I installed the half shafts and had to persuade the driver side spline-to-hub assembly. I am now taking a nap because I am old and can’t be crawling all over a concrete shop floor anymore. I will get the area cleaned up tomorrow and get more pics…but oh yea, I hooked up the clutch cable and seem to have good engagement and movement with the throw out bearing, so my flywheel milling might just do the trick 10917
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[Dr_Snooz]

Your alternator is shiny! Ooooo... :)

[bscanlan]

Don’t know if my engine install pics show it, but utilizing the Cheddas traction bar, which eliminates the center trans mount and the front (engine) bell mount, causes the engine to sag rather considerably on the passenger side. This stresses the driver’s side mount (I also have the Cheddas mount with urethane bushing) more than I am comfortable with. So I fired up the design software and 3D-printed a prototype trans mount that will utilize the auto mount from the passenger side wheel well. Lucky that this is an auto-to-manual (don’t say it Snooz) swap, leaving me that point for a 4th mount. It will utilize the same rubber trans mount that the auto uses in the same location. Also, it attaches where the engine hanger bolts to the trans so I figure that’s a pretty solid point. It’s in plastic right now, but will get it made in the machine shop at school next week or so. I am excited to see if this secures things a bit.

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[thegreatdane]

Hi, excellent work you're doing first of all! Regarding your flywheel though, I'm wondering if you milled all three windows larger or just the one pictured? You probably did all 3 (or some other balancing), but just in case it was only the one, then you could very likely have introduced an imbalance large enough to cause noticeable vibration and lead to early failure of bearings or even fatigue failure of the crank. I mention it because judging by that picture it appears to be a rather sizeable lump you milled away.

[bscanlan]

Thanks Dane! Indeed I milled the same amount from all 3 “windows”. I needed that in order for the pressure plate to seat; to alleviate my issue. I do realize that the flywheel was balanced upon production, so I will just have to see what I did once she’s spinning.

[thegreatdane]

Excellent, I'm sure it will run smoothly then. Looking forward to see the build continue!

[bscanlan]

It’s haaaaapeniiiiing…10945
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There is good clearance for the Wilwood 4-piston fronts, and the SEi conversion and new (Rock Auto) rear disks look alright. I am mildly pleased :rockon:

[bscanlan]

Still plugging along.11003

[bscanlan]

I need to post some more sideways pictures and ask about some experiences. I checked an older thread that discussed members using redline MTL in a manual transmission. I also looked at the Honda manual transmission fluid, which the Honda website says it’s not compatible with our cars. Finally the service manual talked about using 30 or 40 weight oil. Given how much the weights and viscosities vary, I’m wondering how many of you have a deviated from the service manual recommendation, and what your experiences have been.
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[Oldblueaccord]

I need to post some more sideways pictures and ask about some experiences. I checked an older thread that discussed members using redline MTL in a manual transmission. I also looked at the Honda manual transmission fluid, which the Honda website says it’s not compatible with our cars. Finally the service manual talked about using 30 or 40 weight oil. Given how much the weights and viscosities vary, I’m wondering how many of you have a deviated from the service manual recommendation, and what your experiences have been.
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Mobile one 10W40. Cant remember for sure maybe 22 years I think I started around the 135k mark when I did the first clutch. Honda fluid was pretty expensive at the time and the synthetic oil was cheaper.

Mileage in my sig but its close to 340k miles no problems. I dont change the fluid unless I have done some kinda work where it got drained.

One thing is I dont use 5th unless im on the highway above 55 mph. Its not made to be lugged around town at 30 mph with you right foot buried to the floor. Even steep long grades on major interstates I use 4th gear, Jellico mtn TN I 75, Ironto Mnt VA I81, I40 Crossvile TN etc.

Just my 2 cents. Happy New year.

PS I know its funny comments on the FBooks page, but please please please do not use GL5 80w90. Youll loose you syncros in less than a year.

[Jinnai]

I'm using Synchromesh in mine, but it also keep popping out of 1st gear, so I don't know. The other gears still work great and it's got 250k miles, so it might not be the synchromesh's fault.

[ShiRen]

Any mtf or the sae 30 or 40 weight engine oil will work fine, these trans don't seem to give a damn, however, I don't think I will ever put engine oil into a trans, this is 2022, we have good oils made for the environment of a transmission.
Honestly kind of surprised axle oil didn't work, but might be too thick for itty bitty synchro teeth. I bet atf would work fine even.

[conozo]

Any mtf or the sae 30 or 40 weight engine oil will work fine, these trans don't seem to give a damn, however, I don't think I will ever put engine oil into a trans, this is 2022, we have good oils made for the environment of a transmission.
Honestly kind of surprised axle oil didn't work, but might be too thick for itty bitty synchro teeth. I bet atf would work fine even.

I agree. Since we dont have any wet clutches or LSD, its just a box-o-gears we can run just about anything.

[Dr_Snooz]

I've run Honda MTF for a long time. But my MTs all seem to go to heaven within 50k miles of my getting them. So I guess you should avoid Honda MTF in that case.

[bscanlan]

Thanks for all the thoughts folks. I ended up going with Mobile 1 - 10W-40. We shall see…

[Oldblueaccord]

Mobile one 10W40. Cant remember for sure maybe 22 years I think I started around the 135k mark when I did the first clutch. Honda fluid was pretty expensive at the time and the synthetic oil was cheaper.

Mileage in my sig but its close to 340k miles no problems. I dont change the fluid unless I have done some kinda work where it got drained.

One thing is I dont use 5th unless im on the highway above 55 mph. Its not made to be lugged around town at 30 mph with you right foot buried to the floor. Even steep long grades on major interstates I use 4th gear, Jellico mtn TN I 75, Ironto Mnt VA I81, I40 Crossvile TN etc.

Just my 2 cents. Happy New year.

PS I know its funny comments on the FBooks page, but please please please do not use GL5 80w90. Youll loose you syncros in less than a year.

The GL5 rated on oil like 80w90 85w/140 have a additive that will eat yellow metals. its all over the internets for your search criteria. Those oils are fine in most hypoid gear car rear ends currently being manufactured. They kinda forgot about the old manual transmissions of yor that called for 80w90. The GL1-3 is probably find but its never available.

Theres a guy here at work uses 80w90 and were eating up the gears boxes as fast as we can get them changed out. I keep reminding him its 2022 not 1972.

[ShiRen]

I did not know that, very strange. Seems to be true, but my search results shows some staunch deniers about GL5 corroding synchros, very confusing, at least if you are trying to pinpoint what causes it. Seems like some oils are fine and others are not... I would just play it safe and use mtf, but I guess theres even old trans that use GL5

[Oldblueaccord]

I did not know that, very strange. Seems to be true, but my search results shows some staunch deniers about GL5 corroding synchros, very confusing, at least if you are trying to pinpoint what causes it. Seems like some oils are fine and others are not... I would just play it safe and use mtf, but I guess theres even old trans that use GL5



https://www.rymax-lubricants.com/updates/the-differences-between-gl-4-and-gl-5/

its the EP additives.

https://www.api.org/-/media/Files/Certification/Engine-Oil-Diesel/Publications/1560-Eighth-Edition-April-2013.pdf

Try getting you prized numbers matching Munice 4 speed totally rebuilt and lunching it in 4 months like my buddy did in his Chevelle.