Oil filter not working

[88Sleeper]

I replaced my oil filter base gasket 2.5 years ago, and while I had the base off, I noticed the bypass had a rough spot. I (probably stupidly) smoothed it out with some light emory paper and then hand-buffed it until it was smooth. Didn't come out "chrome-shiny" smooth though...

Fast forward to now. The first 7.5k miles after the base gasket, the oil in the filter was sludge. Probably a side-effect of me running the weber for 7.5k miles - the oil gets dirty fast.

I then decided to not run so long, and this year I had smog check so I changed oil after 3.5k miles. Oil was bad and ready for change... I go to pull filter -> nothing comes out of it. I look inside and there is barely any oil in there (although what is in there is dark like the stuff in the pan. At least not burned clumpy chunks of oil like last time!!). I also stuck my finger into the inside of the threaded stud where we mount the filter - and it feels completely dry outside of a very very light oil residue. *Note: I removed the filter 2hrs. after I drained the oil from the car*

Considering how fast my new oil goes dark with blow-by residue: I think my oil filter is not actually a part of the oil circuit anymore. Can any of the more experienced guys confirm or explain to me how the bypass in the oil filter base works on our engines? I thought if the valve would get stuck in the "closed" position than the bypass would not work & the oil is always filtered. However, I have no clue anymore. :nervous:

Regards!

[Oldblueaccord]

Thats about the oddest thing i have heard of.

I find it hard to think the filter is 100% bypassed I mean no oil at all.

I would be curious your oil pressure with new oil.

[88Sleeper]

I would be curious your oil pressure with new oil.

To do that I will need to do the oil pressure gauge install. I was looking online for a new oil pressure relief valve - since I found that the manual states to replace it if it's scored (like mine was). They're all discontinued though =[

my oil pressure sender was damaged when i did the base gasket, and the wire going into the dash isn't really attached strongly. I have no idea if the light is on/off lol.

[InAccordance]

Oil pump bad maybe?
but yea, I'd jury rig an oil pressure gauge into it and see where it's at.

[Oldblueaccord]

Should I Block Off My Oil Pump Bypass? (http://www.onallcylinders.com/2016/02/19/ask-away-with-jeff-smith-should-i-block-off-my-oil-filter-bypass/)

fair read here i get these on my FB feed all the time.

I think when I did my gasket the plunger was scored up so I smoothed mine up too.

You are pretty sure your using the correct oil filter?

[Dr_Snooz]

I'll point out that the valve in question is the "relief valve" (p. 8-8 of the manual) and not the "bypass valve." If its function is as the name implies, then it maintains steady oil pressure, and doesn't do anything about bypassing the filter. The manual says "valve must slide freely in oil filter base bore. If valve is scored, replace it." So if it slid freely after you polished it, then it's probably working correctly.

If it is indeed a relief valve, then the fastest way to determine whether it's working is to hook up an oil pressure gauge. At operating temp, you want to see the oil pressure rise with RPMs to around 65-70 psi, then level off.

Some other things to consider. First, if your carb is not tuned properly, it will do bad things to the oil. So that could be part of your problem. Two, if that valve was not working before, then you could have had some oil pressure problems leading to some bad things like sludge and excessive wear. If you, or a previous owner, were lazy about oil changes previously, then that would also create a lot of sludge. Three, since you've increased your oil change interval and fixed your relief valve, you could expect to see some of that sludge breaking up and working its way out of the engine and into your filter. Four, if you are using a crap filter, like a Fram, then all bets are off and you should be happy the stupid thing hasn't blown out a seal and destroyed your engine.

So definitely get an oil pressure gauge on it. You should also make sure your Weber is tuned properly. Finally, a compression test could tell you how much ring wear/blowby you have going on.

[88Sleeper]

Just an update on this. I didn't use the car during the winter because it has little to no grip with the crappy all-seasons on ice.

I started driving it today after getting an oil pressure sensor installed over the break. When I turned the car on in 20F weather, I had 65 psi at 1800rpm. Today I got driving and had it warmed up; and the results aren't exactly great...

@ 1k rpm idle when cold ->20psi
@ 1k rpm after 5 minutes of driving (water is warm) -> 15psi
@ 1k rpm after 10 minutes of driving -> 7psi
@ 1k rpm after 15 & onward -> 2-3 psi.

If I push the brake pedal when it's warm, and the idle dips down by 25-50 rpm -> the gauge reads 0 psi...

@ 2k rpm cruising I have 15-17 psi.

Now, I'm going to take a guess based on Dr_Snooz post; is that I should have 65 psi around 3-4k rpm?

One observation I have made, since I have been dealing with the PCV system on my '04 Odyssey, is that if the dipstick keeps popping out, then that system is not working and can cause engine damage. Would it cause this kind of damage as I have now?? My dipstick has been popping out ever since the Weber install, but I did not understand before that it's due to CC pressure...

[88Sleeper]

I'll point out that the valve in question is the "relief valve" (p. 8-8 of the manual) and not the "bypass valve." If its function is as the name implies, then it maintains steady oil pressure, and doesn't do anything about bypassing the filter. The manual says "valve must slide freely in oil filter base bore. If valve is scored, replace it." So if it slid freely after you polished it, then it's probably working correctly.

Yes, it slide freely, but it wasn't "chrome-like" shiny; just smooth.



If it is indeed a relief valve, then the fastest way to determine whether it's working is to hook up an oil pressure gauge. At operating temp, you want to see the oil pressure rise with RPMs to around 65-70 psi, then level off.


See my post above for what values I have, as of today.


Some other things to consider. First, if your carb is not tuned properly, it will do bad things to the oil. So that could be part of your problem. Two, if that valve was not working before, then you could have had some oil pressure problems leading to some bad things like sludge and excessive wear. If you, or a previous owner, were lazy about oil changes previously, then that would also create a lot of sludge. Three, since you've increased your oil change interval and fixed your relief valve, you could expect to see some of that sludge breaking up and working its way out of the engine and into your filter. Four, if you are using a crap filter, like a Fram, then all bets are off and you should be happy the stupid thing hasn't blown out a seal and destroyed your engine.


The oil has always been changed up until 200k @ 7.5k mi OCI's. I don't see sludge when I've looked in the valve cover, though there's a lot of varnish on the non-moving parts. I use castrol GTX 5w-30 & a Wix filter. We've owned it since 1990 w/55k miles, and haven't had an oil or sludge issue so far... (though what do I know, as I haven't done a teardown).

Are there internal seals that can get blown out and cause unseen engine destruction??


So definitely get an oil pressure gauge on it. You should also make sure your Weber is tuned properly. Finally, a compression test could tell you how much ring wear/blowby you have going on.

It's tuned the best that I can do, I have 12.5 @ WOT and 15.5 @ light cruising, AFR. The moment I try to make power it goes down to 12.5, so I don't feel I can really do better. I've tried; I have every single size jet for the dang thing and I can't find a better combo for this thing :(

[88Sleeper]

Anybody have any recommendations on a good rebuild kit, or if there's somethings I should do like a new oil pump?

Kind of doubt that's going to fix the damage that's already been done though.

[Dr_Snooz]

Yeah. Hate to say it, but that engine is fucked. How does it run? Does it blow smoke? Overheat a lot, etc.?

[InAccordance]

Isn't 5w-30 a bit thin for these engines?
Doubt it would make a huge difference but then again over time...
I've always been told and read to use 10-30 or even 10-40 depending on the season.

[Dr_Snooz]

You should always use the oil recommended in the owner's manual for any car you own. Because we have extraordinarily hot summers here, I usually consult the chart in the owner's manual and step up a weight to keep it from thinning out in the heat.

[InAccordance]

Yea, I run 10-30 in the winter and 10-40 in the summer.

[Oldblueaccord]

Just an update on this. I didn't use the car during the winter because it has little to no grip with the crappy all-seasons on ice.

I started driving it today after getting an oil pressure sensor installed over the break. When I turned the car on in 20F weather, I had 65 psi at 1800rpm. Today I got driving and had it warmed up; and the results aren't exactly great...

@ 1k rpm idle when cold ->20psi
@ 1k rpm after 5 minutes of driving (water is warm) -> 15psi
@ 1k rpm after 10 minutes of driving -> 7psi
@ 1k rpm after 15 & onward -> 2-3 psi.

If I push the brake pedal when it's warm, and the idle dips down by 25-50 rpm -> the gauge reads 0 psi...

@ 2k rpm cruising I have 15-17 psi.

Now, I'm going to take a guess based on Dr_Snooz post; is that I should have 65 psi around 3-4k rpm?

One observation I have made, since I have been dealing with the PCV system on my '04 Odyssey, is that if the dipstick keeps popping out, then that system is not working and can cause engine damage. Would it cause this kind of damage as I have now?? My dipstick has been popping out ever since the Weber install, but I did not understand before that it's due to CC pressure...

That 20 psi is really low cold even my engine makes 55 plus on start up with 10w40 oil.

Could try an oil pump. There pretty easy to change might make some difference.

The external pressure,blowby, usually is low ring tension so little internal vacuum but I would double check your PVC is set up right with that carb setup.

[Dr_Snooz]

I'd probably do a compression test before wasting any more time on it.

[88Sleeper]

Well that's the funny part, aside from the fantastic knocking noises - it runs just fine. no smoke, but quite a bit of blow-by (not more than it normally did). No overheating either. I don't have the stuff to do a compression test, but there's no loping idle or a feeling of having "one cylinder low" If they're low then they're all low. =)

I think what did it in was that when the float in the Keihin died, I ran it for 100 miles of commuting over 3 days with a flooding carb.
I'd stop at a light on a road with 3 lanes going forward, and in 30 seconds I'd make a black cloud of smoke 3 cars deep and 3-cars wide as my cat tried to burn the fuel off. Considering I had a "faint valve tick" right after I installed the weber, I bet it began it's down-fall right there. I got 15k mi. out of it though =)

My friend here said I can get a B-series with wiring for $400, so I'll try to see if I can price out a B-swap similar to legend_masters; but I'm kinda wondering if it's worth doing it in a rust-bucket =|
What would you guys do if you'd be in a similar situation?

The thing is that right now I can either rebuild the A20 for $1200-1500, or recycle the car and try to part out the things worth anything in it, at a loss.

[2ndGenGuy]

Pick up a used engine for it for like $300-500. Drop it in and go, or sell it. The B-swap is about 10x more involved than dropping in another stock motor.

[Dr_Snooz]

What 2GG said, if there's value in it. If it's all shite, then scrap it.