B18C, B16A, or B20A, whice one??

[myaccord7]

ive been reading some of the engine swap post and i dont know which one is easier, cheaper, and more power? which one does placeracing.com make mounts for? which one has more hp? and whice one isnt to hard? thanks


zach:stick:

[netfreak]

The B20A is probably the easiest to install, but finding one and parts for a rebuild is somewhat difficult. The B18C is harder mainly because of OBD I (or II) and it also requires a hefty bank loan to purchase. The B16A is easier to install (still requires the mounts like B18C) because it is pre OBD, and can be found very cheap. The overall easy route is the B16A.. I personally wouldn't try the B20A because I don't have the knowledge to rebuilt it (since most of them out there are a bit beat up).

[Jims 86LXI HB]

B16a (sir1) 160hp@7600RPM/111lb-ft@7000
B18c1 170hp@7600RPM/128lb-ft@6200
B18c5, forget it way to expensive
B20a (no # after a) 160hp@????140lb-ft?

B16a (sir1) easy to find $1150 buy you
Motor
Transmission
Engine Wiring Harness
All required Cables
ECU
Distributor
Complete Intake Manifold
Alternator
A/C
Power Steering Pump
All Brackets and Sensors

B18c1 easy to find $2700 buys same parts as above.
B18c5 is $4200 btw

[myaccord7]

thanks


zach

[netfreak]

http://www.osakajdmmotors.com/honda/b16a1/index.html

There is the site with the B16A package for $1050

[Kevin]

ok, i have an 87 accord hatch!! I need to know exactly what i need to put an B18c5-the integra type r moter!!! The moter iam buying comes with complete engine, tranny, and ecu!!! Which axles, and shift linkage do i need to to buy??? I know i need to moter mounts!! Are they currently available still??? Any information that would help make this swap successful would be great!!!

[Kevin]

Y doesnt any one answer me?? Doesnt anyone know???

[netfreak]

You need the mounts, axles, and wiring stuff from place racing. Just buy everything they sell for the 3g accord and you should be OK.

[Grant2k]

or use the search button. this has all been discussed before somewhere.

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Your best bet is either a B16 or B20.. stay away from the B18C... It's a very expensive swap! And the wiring is a problem!

[bobafett]

damn... didnt know you could get hat much b16 stuff for 1100~ :)

how much does all the Place Racing stuff cost? if i could get the swap done for less than 2500 TOTALLY DONE it might be a fun alternative, since then the modding possibilties are endless. then again b16 head on a20 would be sweet. damn... decisions decions... :D hehe

[quagmire]

How would wiring a B18C be any so much more difficult than wiring a B16?

[Grant2k]

a B18 is OBD II i believe.

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Originally posted by Grant2k
a B18 is OBD II i believe.

Yes exaclty!! Grant knows!! He is smart Lad!! Our cars are pre OBD the B18c's are OBDII..So the first Gen B16 is a perfect swap!! cheap also!! If you wanna go the non-vtec route go for a B20 ( JDM Accord ) .. Stay away from the B18 Unless u are planning a real B18 swap! Not a hybrid..

[OldSchoolSwap]

Here are all the parts you will need for a B series swap. http://www.moonscryer.org/placeracing.pdf

The easiest swap and less expensive swap (excluding the B20) is the first gen B16 NOTE: First Gen B16 NOT 2nd gen as this would be a newer not compatible for our application unless moded.

Anyway, the first gen is practically a "slap on and go"! Minor mods must be done to the ecu's pins but not complicated.

The B18 series however seem to be a mission! After you purchase the B18, you will have to get rid of the trany because it will not be compatible with our setup, B18's come with a Hydro tranny as apposed to the first gen B16 cable tranny.

Second, the B18's Distributor will not be compatible either, it will be OBD1 or OBD2. Our cars are preOBD A.K.A. OBD0. You will need to get a first gen B16 distributor.

Third, the 4 wire OBD1 O2 sensor is also not compatible with the swap. You will need a first gen B16 one wire O2 sensor (pre OBD).

And the list goes on..... the wire harness i have no idea due to the B18's diffrent manifold and sensors.

However, i think there's hope. Not to sure but i think place racing can make a harness that will convert our harness to work with an OBD1 GSR motor, but i'm not to sure. If this is true, then this would mean that all the upgrades that i've mentioned (except the tranny) won't be necessary. You'll be able to keep the stock Dist, O2 and manifold.

Anyhow, i'm just glad i did the B16 instead of being the guinie pig on this one ;)

If you need help on the B16 swap or have any other questions, i'll be glad to help.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by OldSchoolSwap


The B18 series however seem to be a mission! After you purchase the B18, you will have to get rid of the trany because it will not be compatible with our setup, B18's come with a Hydro tranny as apposed to the first gen B16 cable tranny.



Huh? Last time I read the placeracing posts, they made a hydro tranny to cable tranny conversion system? Do they no longer offer that part?

[OldSchoolSwap]

Originally posted by Jims 86LXI HB
Huh? Last time I read the placeracing posts, they made a hydro tranny to cable tranny conversion system? Do they no longer offer that part?
I was not aware of this. I am not sure about that. How come they don't have it listed on the flyer? I guess its a new product unless its all fake rumors.

[smufguy]

Jim here is what i pulled form Yasu's website

Motor Specs:
1958cc (2.0L) DOHC 16V Non-vtec
Bore and stroke: 81mm X 95mm
Compression: 9.4:1
Power output: 160HP@6300RPM
Torque output: 137ft-lbs@5000RPM
Manual tranny gear ratios:
1st- 3.166
2nd- 1.857
3rd- 1.259
4th- 0.967
5th- 0.794
R- 4.066


5spd Manual For the 3g manual tranny

1 3.181
2 1.842
3 1.250
4 0.937
5 0.771 -
Reverse 3.000
Final Drive 4.066

I think yasu got the final drive and Reverse ratios for his B20 switched.

[Swan]

What has happened to placeracing??? I went to the website several times in the past 4 months, and its STILL under construction, and the only thing you can do is click on their email....

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Originally posted by Swan
What has happened to placeracing??? I went to the website several times in the past 4 months, and its STILL under construction, and the only thing you can do is click on their email....

Or call them!:tongue:

[Swan]

oh wait....i forgot what I was asking that for... umm, where else can I get the motor mounts, and wiring harness, etc., that placeracing has?

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Motor Mounts & Axles can be bought elsewhere! As for Wiring Harness!! You either have to call them or hope you have a good mech to make u one!

[OldSchoolSwap]

Originally posted by Swan
oh wait....i forgot what I was asking that for... umm, where else can I get the motor mounts, and wiring harness, etc., that placeracing has?
I will be able to get the mounts and anything from place racing soon, at cheaper prices.
I will make anouncements once i get my grounds together.
Untill then, keep doing your research and questions ;)

[Shifty]

sorry to sound stupid but whats OBD stand for ?

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Originally posted by Shifty
sorry to sound stupid but whats OBD stand for ?

On
Board
Diagnostics

[Shifty]

Ahhhh thanx dude :)

[OldSchoolSwap]

Originally posted by Shifty
sorry to sound stupid but whats OBD stand for ?

By: Chet Hewitt


History

During the 1960's steps were taken to regulate vehicle emissions in an attempt to improve air quality. The Environmental Protection Agency was created by United States Government and the Air Resources Board was created in California. Shortly thereafter the Clean Air Act was written and all vehicles were forced to meet certain standards.

In the 1960's a Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) valve was introduced along with a controlled combustion system. However little was improved upon until new technologies were developed in the early 1970's. This became the focus of the EPA and several important vehicle developments came shortly after. These included the catalytic converter, open loop control systems, electronic engine emissions controls, on-board diagnostics, evaporative emissions controls and exhaust gas recirculation (EGR). Unleaded gasoline was also introduced in an effort to make exhaust fumes less toxic. By the 1980's three-way catalytic converters were introduced and catalytic converter applications became standard on most vehicles. Car companies also began using electronic engine emissions controls in an attempt to make their vehicles more environmentally friendly and more appealing to US consumers. California led the way in requiring OBD systems and in 1992 Honda's vehicles were all OBD 1 compliant. In 1995 emissions standards became even tougher and in response all vehicles 1996 and up were OBD 2 compliant.



How does this effect an engine swap?

As described above all vehicles 91 and older are OBD 0 which means they have the fewest emissions standards and most noticeably have no oxygen sensor. This can become very important when swapping engines in cars from different generations. What is easiest and recommended is swapping engines from the same or newer generation as their vehicle counterpart. Also, its important to remember that 4th Generation Honda's, 1988-1991 are OBD0. 1992-1995 are OBD 1 compliant while 96 and newer is OBD2.




:D

[smufguy]

wow thats a nice piece of Article Juan. Nice info.

[AvgWhtMale]

What? No oxygen sensor? I thought we had 2, on the exhast mainfold?!?

[Grant2k]

Originally posted by AvgWhtMale
What? No oxygen sensor? I thought we had 2, on the exhast mainfold?!?
i noticed that too. i think that may be because Honda has always been ahead of their time emmissions wise.

[OldSchoolSwap]

Originally posted by OldSchoolSwap


and most noticeably have no oxygen sensor.




Meaning some as in "older" may not have O2 sensors. Our gens were pretty advanced cars for the year.
So yeah, Honda had they're shit together i guess.

[Justin86]

I might be making this swap within a couple of months depending on $$. But I have friend who belives he has a B18C sitting in this junkyard he works at. He said that I also could get it everything out of the car and I need for a great price at $0000.00. I'm going to check it out tomorrow to see if it is truley a B18C.

[smufguy]

well be prepared to spend atleast $2K as u know for the mounts and wiring adapters.

[Justin86]

Yea that is kind of what I thought. I just need to know exactely what I need to install the engine and tranny and have it running. I can take care of the engine it is just everything else that need to be done.

[OldSchoolSwap]

Originally posted by Justin86
Yea that is kind of what I thought. I just need to know exactely what I need to install the engine and tranny and have it running. I can take care of the engine it is just everything else that need to be done.

Well, here's the link on PlaceRacing stuff that you will need for your swap..... http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16722

Here is PlaceRacing's flyer with their prices.... http://www.moonscryer.org/placeracing.pdf

[smufguy]

Juan, why do people keep saying that their engine mount and harness cost 1600 bucks when the price of em is just under a 1000 bucks? Are they meaning everything they got from placeracing or are they just sayin it?

[OldSchoolSwap]

I have no clue, maybe they should go back to school for math classes :D

[smufguy]

how much did u spend on ur harness and mounts?

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Originally posted by smufguy
Juan, why do people keep saying that their engine mount and harness cost 1600 bucks when the price of em is just under a 1000 bucks? Are they meaning everything they got from placeracing or are they just sayin it?

Not quite 1600, but where do u get 1k?
B Series Mounts= 637.55
Axles x 2= 357.00
linkage Core= 153.70
Wire Harness= 310.00 ( Note: Wire Harness .. They wont make u an obd1 or 0bd2 harness. )
Grand Total 1458.25 not including shipping... This is PlaceRacing's Price..The better deal is Racing Impulse....plus get the pleasure of not dealing with Place Racings' rude customer service..:wave:

[OldSchoolSwap]

Originally posted by smufguy
how much did u spend on ur harness and mounts? Lets see.....
I had to pay more than what i am selling it now because i didn't have a company and knew nobody, so here it goes...

Harness $300 plus shipping
Mounts $618 plus shipping

This shop gave me a so called discount because i bought both at the same time.

So lets see, $300+$618 = $1600 :D :lol

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Dats only 918...

[Justin86]

Yea my friend is an idiot. He thought it was a 94 Integra with a VTEC head. Today he said it is a 93 Integra meaning no VTEC. :mad:

[smufguy]

:lol mat :lol ur sooo oblivious. hahahahaha, ur funny man. :lol

[OldSchoolSwap]

well, its up to you and the cash flow to decide now ;)

[OldSchoolSwap]

Originally posted by smufguy
:lol mat :lol ur sooo oblivious. hahahahaha, ur funny man. :lol
Who's "mat"?

[smufguy]

not you juan :tongue:

[Grant2k]

Originally posted by OldSchoolSwap
Who's "mat"?
it's not mat, it's Matt, you know, <><S>KCV<SAD?>?>V-whatever.

[smufguy]

its how i say it mat = matt :flip: grant hahahahah :D

[Justin86]

Yea I gave my friend a munch of crap for getting my hopes up. Well I just got to keep looking and hope to find a good deal for a B18C somewhere.

[wikkedv15]

how much would a b20a cost?
just curious?
i found a place that has them at a pretty good price..

[Justin86]

I'm not a hundred precent sure but if I remember right they were around $1000

[smufguy]

max for the B20A would be $400 US.

[lilhonda17]

i've dropped in the b18c5 and i'm wondering if anyone knows how to convert the cable speedometer to electric??? i'll of course be able to do it if no one can tell me. with a little free time i'll master it. i've already switched everything completly over hydro tranny and all!! i have an 86 accord lx sedan. this type R engine really SCREAMS!!! hmmm wonder if i should drop in that euro H22. yeah i think i should, y not. i love my babies.

[smufguy]

well, if u want the electronic display gauge, aka digital gauge, u gotta hunt down a older legend or what not (USDM) that carot mentioned which came with one. But its a pain in the ass to get it all wired up and made fit. BUt it just takes the fun out of having to look at ur car with needles revvin up and down, but have some knight rider style digital gauges.

[OldSchoolSwap]

Got any pics of that motor?

The conversion i don't know, you might have to get a mechanical cable and swap it in place of the sensor.
Or somehow adapt another "mph" cluster.

[Justin86]

How much did it cost you to drop in the B18C5. I'm wanting to drop one in and I just need to find one and get the money for it.

[89AccordLvr]

if i swap wit a b16 will it still be difficult to slap a turbo on it or will it get much easier to do a turbo.

[89AccordLvr]

to oldschoolswap:

do you think $3500 is good enough for a complete swap for b16a

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Originally posted by 89AccordLvr
to oldschoolswap:

do you think $3500 is good enough for a complete swap for b16a

what do u think? Have u even priced out the parts needed for the swap? I am currently going thru the steps of the swap.. If it was that cheap I would have finished it 2 MONTHS ago.. Ask yourself this.. what can I get for 3500 bucks?? Prices will vary in parts and labor...check the market section & motor far section.. It should give u an idea of the prices. Oldschool posted the prices of the parts needed for the swap.. I say save 2k and go from there.. Try to do everything in one shot.

[OldSchoolSwap]

Originally posted by 89AccordLvr
to oldschoolswap:

do you think $3500 is good enough for a complete swap for b16a
If your doing the labor yourself, then i'd say "doable" yes.

[89AccordLvr]

thanxs , oldschoolswap how much would u cover for labor roughly if i were to ask you to do a swap for me

[OldSchoolSwap]

I don't have a shop to do it in. Plus i don't want to get in more projects than my car, its a full time job as it is. :D

I can help you or the shop if you get stuck in any way though ;)

[89AccordLvr]

do u know some shops down in miami or close to miami thats trustworthy and experiance in doin swaps like these

[OldSchoolSwap]

I know a few shops but none has ever done this swap that i know of.
Get with me and i'll see what i can do.

[89AccordLvr]

iight when im i think im ready and have enough money ill probably go to miami durin the summer for couple days or so and see what we can do

[OldSchoolSwap]

The best plan i can tell you, is to get all your parts that you need before starting this project.
It will help not having last minute rushes and will be easier on your pocket. Buy parts as you can and the swap should go smoothly.
I can get you most of the parts if you need help from me.

[89AccordLvr]

ok ill do that thanks