Suspect head gasket, I want to cry !

[AC439]

Well, the car has been running rough past 2 days. After it warmed up and sitting at red light, engine shakes and rpm lower than normal. I was like what the heck's going on and I checked coolant inside the radiator at work place today and it was low. I added a little over 1 qt of water at the radiator, made myself home, open the hood and expecting a leak. However I didn't see any coolant at radiator or at any hose joints location etc. I squeezed the upper radiator hose and it seems holding pressure and tight. I checked engine oil and level is fine and no milky oil. Then I peeked at the overflow bottle and there appears coolant overflowing from it.

I suspect blown head gasket.

Few years ago, I had a blown head gasket and I remember it blew bubbles into the overflow bottle. Bought a gasket and went to a mechanic friend's shop and had it replaced. It took me on and off 2 weeks to get it done. I am like, not again !!!

Please see picture at the overflow bottle. Do you think this is head gasket again?

I did a seafoam big smoke treatment a week ago. Do you think this may have something to do with damaging head gasket ?

I am thinking opening the valve cover and check all the bolts between the head and the engine body and to make sure if they are tight.

What do you guys think ? I just cannot believe a few years old head gasket will blew again.....

[Oldblueaccord]

On the cheap replace your radiator cap. Maybe its bypassing when it should not be..

I doubt it will fix your rough running.

The seafoam I could see if you almost hydro locked the motor some how and it blew the gasket, I doubt that happened.

[DanJDT]

I second the replacing of the radiator cap. Maybe make sure you burp the coolant system.

[gp02a0083]

I agree with the others. Try the cheap and easy fixes first. Im always suspecting one of the bypass coolant lines to leak due to age. The cap is another good place to start.

Our 95 camry had very similar issues. I had my radiator fill bucket attached and saw it bubble like a fish tank aerator only after driving highway. Coolant appeared ok as well as the oil.

I dont think the seafoam treatment caused the issue. If anything stuff like that highlights an existing problem. Could also try the dip strips, and compression checks. Maybe a leak down test?

[AC439]

Thanks for all replies. The radiator cap is relatively new and I have inspected it and it seems ok. Right after I shut the engine off, I noticed the upper radiator hose was very tight and seemed pressurized. I squeezed it but only felt gas inside (no coolant). The overflow bottle did not bubble at the time (engine off, no exhaust blowing through the bad head gasket into the coolant overflow tank). Since it was hot so I didn't open the radiator cap.

This morning when everything was cooled down, I opened the radiator cap and definitely didn't see coolant when I looked into it. I filled it up yesterday right before I left work, drove 10 miles home and this morning already did not see coolant at the radiator.

In the past when I had broken radiator hose and overheating, symptoms were different. Might have to do a compression test.....

The car now feels like some misfiring when driving and it has the same symptoms as the first time I had the head gasket blown. The wife is cheering since she never likes my old accord and wants me to get a newer car. I would definitely like it to continuous running. I'm pretty sure its the head gasket cause I could not see any coolant anywhere even around those small hoses (I replaced all of them with silicone hoses). I have decided to try the Bar's head gasket leak repair (read good things about them) and see what happens........

[InAccordance]

Any smoke? white smoke is the biggest sign of a head gasket blown.

[AC439]

No white smoke, the overflow tank is full and overflowing coolant to the ground while the radiator is low on coolant. I determined from yesterday that after I topped off the radiator and drove 10 miles home, the coolant level in the radiator dropped from full to a little below the top metal fins. The radiator cap checked good, but I noticed black oil steak on the cap's center metal piece (the valve that allows coolant to flow back into the radiator after cooling down). I temporary removed the rubber hose at the radiator filler neck and, with radiator cap on, pump air into the radiator and did not see coolant leaking out anywhere and pressure appears holding. I am in process of applying the Bar's HG-1 and will see how this holds. I definitely want to get this fix. I cannot comprehend seeing my beloved Accord going to junk yard....

If this doesn't work, I have to replace head gasket again. I read here from someone that it can be done without removing intake manifold (this was the most time consuming part last time I remember). If so, how do you make room (how high can it be lifted) for changing the head gasket ? Mine is FI car...

[AC439]

So I took the car out the neighborhood after the first Bar's stop leak cycle for a very slow drive for 15 mins. No more misfiring ! No idling engine shaking !

This validated a blown head gasket. When car cools down again, I will go top off the radiator and will monitor the next few days to see if coolant level drops or symptom coming back. I do hope this fix is permanent (as Bar's claims). If not, then at least I know I need to change the head gasket again.

[Dr_Snooz]

Did you check the block and head for warping when you did the first head gasket replacement? If not, then yes, you could have another failure in a relatively short time. It would have been a good idea to check rad pressure and confirm diagnosis before using the Bars Leak. Good luck with the fix.

[InAccordance]

If you do end up changing the head gasket, take the head and have it checked for warping.

[AC439]

Well, first time changed the head gasket (5 years ago). My mechanic friend checked it and did not say it was wrapped or anything abnormal.... I remember when he torqued the head bolts according to the spec and the cross pattern, I had a feeling the torque was low. I expected an engine component like this would need higher torque for the bolts. Anyway, we set the torque wrench according to spec. I have a gut feeling they might have loosen over time....

Anyway, I drove car between work/home today and it runs perfectly fine. I didn't push the car, just drove normally and easy.

I noticed another problem was gone also --- I had an intermittent idling problem when car is warmed and at neutral, sometimes the idle is around 900 but sometimes is 1200 and cannot find a pattern when it would happen. But today, the idle has been smooth and at 900. The Bar's product claims it can fix intake manifold leaks (I have no clue how this can happen since the product is put into coolant, unless coolant also passes between the head and the intake manifold through the intake manifold gasket). But it seems to have fix the idle problem also which could very well be an intake manifold leak. I remember 5 years ago, it was a big pain in the butt to bolt the intake manifold back to the head. We used a long extension with universal joint (and much !@#$) to bolt the intake manifold back to the head. There was no way to torque the bolts like that and I suspect they might have loosen also.

Anyway, I am going to take valve cover off tomorrow and torque all the head bolts again. I will report if any found loosen.

(Disclaimer: I understand using a stop leak chemical product is against the spirit of properly fixing a car. But I have no spare car at the moment and out of desperation decided to try the Bar's chemical after researching into it. I know I might very well be deferring a problem but this is what I can do at this time until time/funding free up to do a real head gasket replacement. I am not promoting or endorsing usage of any fix it chemical product but just telling my story. Appreciate all inputs !)

[InAccordance]

Always stick with goodantight when tightening bolts:lol:

[Dr_Snooz]

You gotta do what you gotta do. The only real problem with the miracle-in-a-can stuff is that it can cause undesirable side effects. I used a radiator stop leak years ago. It didn't really fix the leak, but it did stop up my heater core, which was a drag. Nevertheless, if I get a rod knock, I'll be putting in some Motor Honey. That's just how it goes.

Keep us posted on how the repair does longer term. I'm curious to know.

[AC439]

So far, I haven't seen any negative side effects yet. The heater works fine. I tested it few times. The coolant level remains unchanged and there is no more coolant being pushed into the overflow tank.

Today I pulled off the valve cover and checked all the ten bolts for the head. There are 5 at the intake side and 5 at the exhaust side. First, I used a standard 8" ratchet wrench with a #14 socket to check all 10 bolts. They were all tight and I couldn't tighten anymore. I then used a 18" breaker bar with the #14 socket with light to moderate (I know, no torque wrench) hand pressure and found out 3 bolts could be tighten just a little more. The one that was able to be tightened more was the middle one at the intake side. I estimated about 1/16 to 1/8 turn total. Two more bolts (center bolt exhausted side and the one to the right on same side) were able to be tightened by about 1/32 turn (guesstimated). The other 7 bolts are all tight and not able to tightened more using same pressure.

I also tried to tightened the intake manifold nuts but only able to reach 3 of them at the top. Totally unable to reach any of those at the bottom.

So far, my experience with the Bar's been very positive....

[AC439]

As of today, everything is so far holding up...I have been driving the car everyday. No more lost of coolant or change in coolant level in overflow tank. No signs of coolant getting into engine oil (no coffee with cream color).

[Blainethemono]

IMHO, if you are going thru coolant this fast, you would see white smoke if it was a heads gasket..... I have used Seafoam for decades and never heard about it warping a head or damaging the engine. Ive had my temp gauge pegged and miles from home on my old 86 Accord, and it never warped the head. Cast Iron block is a good thing :)

Next time you do your timing belt replace that Water pump, that may be the source of your leak.

[AC439]

IMHO, if you are going thru coolant this fast, you would see white smoke if it was a heads gasket..... I have used Seafoam for decades and never heard about it warping a head or damaging the engine. Ive had my temp gauge pegged and miles from home on my old 86 Accord, and it never warped the head. Cast Iron block is a good thing :)

Next time you do your timing belt replace that Water pump, that may be the source of your leak.

I already knew why my coolant was gone. The head gasket issue can leak coolant into combustion chamber thus causing white smoke or it will let exhaust (high pressure) gas leaking into cooling system thus forcing coolant into overflow tank (my case).

I have no water pump leak.

I have no coolant leak now after the fix.