Why does my starter turn slow

[lx 1986]

Why does my starter turn slow after the car has been driven 10-20 min. When I try to restart the car after it sits for 5-10 mins. I turn the key it sounds like my battery is weak but it's fully charged. If I give it a little gas and turn the key it starts right up. If I let the car cool down a bit then it will start normally again.

Usually after sitting overnight or long periods of time, there's no problem it starts right up.

Would a bad igniton coil give me this problem?
Or distributor?

I don't think it's the alternator or battery because the battery is always charged.

Thought it was the igniton switch and replaced it a few days ago but the problem is still there. Also replaced starter last year after old one died.

86 accord lx 4spd auto, ac, 2.0L, 2bbl keihin carb

Has anyone had this problem and fixed it?

[carotman]

Heat from the engine could soak to the starter, making the internal tolerances too tight. A too tight starter could be harder to spin.

The battery could also be bad if it boiled. When the starter is slow to crank, try to jump start the car, this will tell you if the problem comes from the battery of the starter.

[lx 1986]

carotman

I don't have anybody to jump start the car. I can tell you that the battery is at 12.5 before driven using my multimeter. If the battery is boiled will the battery still hold a charge strong enough to start the car when it is warmed up? It seems kinda funny that if I turned the key and give it a a little gas at the same time it starts right up when it's warm. I bought the battery in Feb of this year but the date on the battery is Dec 2016.

I did look at the part of the motor where the starter is attached and right next to where it's attached to the motor I see some black grease build up on the motor. Would that affect the starter because it might retain more heat in that area?

[carotman]

There cars are old, there are many things that can go wrong with time.

Slow cranking can be caused by this

- Bad starter
- Bad battery
- Bad wires/connections
- Hard to turn engine.

Keep it simple. Check the wires and connections first. They might not be cable to carry enough current.

[Hauntd ca3]

If the battery is known to be good and test fine with a proper load test, check and make sure teh battery clamps are clean and tight , engine and chassis grounds are clean and tight .
If the starter is pretty old , the brushes could be getting worn which will cause a slow crank fault.

[Dr_Snooz]

Yeah, check all the wires and connections first. Check grounds too.

[lx 1986]

Sorry guys I haven't been on in awhile because my computer took a dump on me. Finally got it fixed.

Ok after searching around awhile I found the wire that is attached to the alternator post has some corrosion on it. Missed it because it's hidden pretty good under hoses.

I also replaced the battery. I was thinking maybe that was the problem when carotman mentioned the battery boiling over thing. The battery was old when I bought it. I do believe it did at one point boil over. Got a fresh one at Pepboys.

Replacing the battery did help the slow start issue. The battery always has a full charge and no problems when driving.

But now I noticed that when I step on the brake to slow down to stop for a signal the battery light flashes off and on it doesn't do it all the time it's like when I use a certain amount of pressure on the brake. It also does it sometimes when I put the car in reverse and rpms drops.

I'm hoping the wire to the alternator is the problem. What I need to know is there some electrical spray that will dissolve the blueish corrosion that leaves no residue. I don't have the tools to be able to take the alternator off but I could spray something on it because I can see it from the top.

Thanks for the help

[Dr_Snooz]

Contact cleaner. It's better to wire brush along with it, but it will still help used alone. It's wise to squirt dielectric grease into your wire connections to prevent corrosion. Every time I open a wire connection, I squirt some in before I connect it again.

[Oldblueaccord]

If its the charge light then the voltage is getting low when you apply the brake(lights). Make sure its not low oil pressure light etc.

Keep checking those voltages. Im guessing that when you hit the brake the engine RPMS are dropping alot and the alt is not charging at that low rpm.

its possible the brake lights are drawing alot of current from bad/dirty connections in the back.

Also make sure your alt belt is tight and no slippage.

[lx 1986]

Dr Snooz would CRC QD Electronic Cleaner or CRC Lectra-Motive is what your talking about? Which would be the better choice or is there some other brand. I'm going to see if I can find a longer brush to get in there.

Oldblueaccord I have an 86 honda accord lx with carb, 4spd auto with ac. The only lights I have are the battery, parking brake and seat belt. I was thinking exactly what your saying that it might be the brake light connections. I was going to look into that also but I wanted to clean the connection to the alternator and see if that might be the problem and then check the connections to the brake lights. The belt is tight I just had the timing belt and water pump changed and had my mechanic replaced the alternator and power steering belts at the same time this year.

I will recheck all and keep you posted.

Thanks so much for the help guys.

[AC439]

I am an EE so I use CRC QD Elec cleaner a lot.

Intermittent electrical problem is hard to troubleshoot. My understanding is when battery light is on, it means the alternator is not charging the battery. Maybe a electrical contact point corrosion that causing this when the car is braked (every time we brake, things will twisted a little) that can aggervate the intermittent corrosion... Just my thought....

I would check ground connections. Sometimes I had to unscrew and get to the connection ring and clean both contact surfaces with sand paper. CRC QD is for light corrosion use but if you see lots of corrosion, it probably wont cut it.

[lx 1986]

Ok guys

Yesterday I cleaned off some of the corrosion on the alternator post I'm still going to work on that some more. I used a pick and wire brush and tooth brush but was only able to remove the corrosion I could see. It's better than what it was.I'm trying to find away to see the back side and the bottom of the wire to see if I missed anything.

I drove the car today and still had the problem with the brake lights. As was suggested by Oldblueaccord I did check the brake light connection at the sockets first. The drivers side was corroded. 2 of 3 sockets are bad. I will get some CRC QD Elec cleaner to clean them and use a pick and Q tips for the hard to reach places. The corrosion is not only where the bulb fits but in the back where the wires come out. I hope this will solve the brake light problem

AC439
Thanks for your input I was wondering if you have ever used vingar and salt to get rid of the corrosion and then rinsed the item off with baking soda and water. Reason being I have been researching how to get the corrosion off the connectors. I have seen some people dip the socket in this solution. And get good results with it. Any thoughts on this? I'm really curious to know what you think.

I agree with you 100% about how you deal with heavy corrosion I do exactly the same. My worry is with the alternator connection I would like to disconnect it to clean it better but I don't think I can.

[AC439]

I personally would not use chemical to treat corrosion. You just can't control how much metal will be taken off. Also, you never get a good shinny metal surface after treatment.

Sometimes I will just jump a wire if I know there is a corrosion that is hard yo get to. I once helped a friend's car with intermittent horn by bridging a wire between corrosion. Of course, with the alternator involved, you need large gauge wire for that. If you do that, I suggest to solder the wire rings cause crimping also has risks of corrosion and intermittent contacts.

If I would troubleshoot this problem, I will connect an analog voltmeter onto the 12 v rail. Generally, when car is running and alternator working, you will see at least 13.5 v. So, if you brake and see the battery light on, the voltage on the rail will drop below 12v therefore set off the battery light. I will then try to move the volt meter around to see if I can catch where I will get constant charging voltage. Say, if I measure 13.5v close to alternator but everywhere else will drop intermittently, I will then check in between for corrosion. If you measure at alternator and the voltage will drop below 12v during braking, then I would focus on the alternator and related connections.

Again this is a tough one to troubleshoot.

[carotman]

Get new terminals and crimp them on.

Check here
Motorcycle Connectors (http://www.cycleterminal.com/motorcycle-connectors.html)
and here:
https://www.corsa-technic.com/category.php?category_id=54

I'm sure you can find what you are looking for.

[Dr_Snooz]

So I've been struggling with connectors for awhile now. It seems like there are countless different connector types (weather-tight, non-weather tight, etc.), lots of brands, special crimp tools, ways of crimping, etc. Some connectors are rated for certain amperage loads. Some are intended for computer cases where the environmental conditions are relatively mild, etc. It's difficult to know what will work best. I suspect the OP is going to be working through his wire mess for awhile and replacing a lot of connectors. Pointing him down the right road now will save him a lot of trial and error. Can anyone help him (and me) choose a brand/type of connector that will work for weather-exposed automotive applications so he won't end up with connectors that cause problems, a brand that doesn't work, forcing him to buy multiple tools, etc? Any best practices or resources for installing and crimping would also be helpful. Nothing sucks more than to spend a lot of time on a project only to realize that you have to do it all again because you didn't know about some best practice that screwed you up. For instance, the OP would not be in this mess if he knew about the dielectric grease trick. Finally, where is a good place to buy connectors that is user friendly? For example, mouser.com's search results are so convoluted, they just give me a mighty headache. There's no way to know what crimp tools will work with what brands, what connectors will work for your application or why they're all so blasted expensive.

[AC439]

Snooz, wish I can help you better with that, but you know, I'm the soldering guy and not a friend of connectors. I always avoid connectors if possible since they are risk of corrosion. I even put some solder even after I crimp a ring to make sure it give a good contact. Maybe I'm more slack with inside connectors (e.g. radio connector) but definitely not those in engine bay or have chances expose to weather or moisture. You've got to have a seal at the connector junctions, some moisture blocking design at the wire ends so dirt and water will not reach the pins. The material need to withstand heat in engine bay and repel oil and road tar.... Just too much to even think about ...

[Oldblueaccord]

I agree with AC when I use crimp I also flow some solder over the exposed wires too. Add Di grease and then shrink tubing. I buy crimps from the bolt and screw place I use Ill see if I can find the name.

large gauge wires I use the hydraulic hose place I use in town. They sell the wire the crimp ends and have the tools to crimp it correctly. if I do it myself i pack the crimp end with solder bits and flow it with a small torch then add Di grease and the shrink tubing.

[carotman]

So I've been struggling with connectors for awhile now. It seems like there are countless different connector types (weather-tight, non-weather tight, etc.), lots of brands, special crimp tools, ways of crimping, etc. Some connectors are rated for certain amperage loads. Some are intended for computer cases where the environmental conditions are relatively mild, etc. It's difficult to know what will work best. I suspect the OP is going to be working through his wire mess for awhile and replacing a lot of connectors. Pointing him down the right road now will save him a lot of trial and error. Can anyone help him (and me) choose a brand/type of connector that will work for weather-exposed automotive applications so he won't end up with connectors that cause problems, a brand that doesn't work, forcing him to buy multiple tools, etc? Any best practices or resources for installing and crimping would also be helpful. Nothing sucks more than to spend a lot of time on a project only to realize that you have to do it all again because you didn't know about some best practice that screwed you up. For instance, the OP would not be in this mess if he knew about the dielectric grease trick. Finally, where is a good place to buy connectors that is user friendly? For example, mouser.com's search results are so convoluted, they just give me a mighty headache. There's no way to know what crimp tools will work with what brands, what connectors will work for your application or why they're all so blasted expensive.

Cycle Terminals has a nice selection and they will tell you what crimp tool to use with each connector.

Eastern Beaver has also many parts.

As a rule of thumb, anything that will carry a bit of current (amps), you can use the 250 style connectors. They are just big enough to do anything automotive wise.
For sensors or smaller loads, use the 090 series.

This is what Honda did on our cars.

Use sealed connectors for anything that's outside the car. Use non sealed for interior.

[Dr_Snooz]

What I've been studying from the hot rod aftermarket guys, like Holley, etc., they all recommend against solder in applications where there will be a lot of flexing and vibration (ie: cars). Apparently, the solder makes the wire inflexible and more likely to break in a rough service environment. It can also mess with the insulation, if I'm recalling correctly. The crimp connection with no extra fuss is supposedly the best choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faLn-SjVfwY&t=629s

I'm not the expert, of course. I'm just trying to learn. I only find myself going through a lot of work to swap stuff out, then using crummy crimp connectors to wire it up. They look like monkey butt, don't seal well and I end up goo-ing RTV into the ends or trying to jimmy-rig shrink tubing over my connections (doesn't work) to make them watertight. While I'm fussing with the crimp connectors, I'm looking at all these first rate molex-type connectors that Honda used in the car. I wanna make the leap, but there are so many choices, it gives me a headache. What would be ideal is a kit with a selection of common connectors, crimper, etc. in one box. Of course, no one makes such a thing. They make them for the crappy crimp connectors, of course.


@Carot, do you favor a specific brand?


Thanks guys

[AC439]

I think soldering or not comes down to personal choice. In my past 40+ years of electronic\electrical work, I usually see much more problems on equipment without soldering. Choice of wires is also a factor for flexibility as you only solder at the ends. Of course, you will see solder cracks once in a while (for example, the main relay, A/C delay timer etc those are soldered components on PCB & the ECU as well). Crack soldering does not happen only in cars. I have serviced hundreds of equipment with crack soldering problem in different environment. Usually it is a result of poor soldering technique....

So far, my personal choice with electrical work in engine bay has been wire crimp, then flow solder inside the crimp follows with heat shrink afterwards. It never fails and I have been doing this on my LXi that I have owned for 25 years. Not intend to debate but to share what has been working for me.

[Dr_Snooz]

You're more than welcome to debate. Like I said, I'm not the expert on this, and experience trumps YouTube videos every time. Thanks for the input.

[Oldblueaccord]

yeah I crimp and solder more for strenght but Ill defer to AC I would by far pick solder over crimp for DYI. EDIT meaning I crimp then solder the same connection unless its a but splice, wire to wire then I just solder. but I avoid those or consider them temporary.

I guess OEM there all crimp but they use really well engineered connectors etc.

In industrial like I work in we deal with connectors with loose pins etc all the time. its a fairly rare occurrence but I happens enough its in my "tool box" of troubleshooting things. Of course the cheaper cabling we have more problems. Factors of construction ,and cheap materials,application. I got one machine they never specced high flex cables so the first 2 years we changed out just about every cable.

[lx 1986]

Alright guys I just got a chance to read all your posts thank you for your help. You guys are a wealth of knowledge.

I've been working on the lights and connector to the alternator slowly but surely.

I didn't realize there were 14 lights in the back. I had to clean some corrosion off 3 of them. Very time consuming. I replaced all but the license plate and trunk light. The problem of the rpms has gone away when stepping on the brake at a stop light. I didn't know the corrosion caused so much resistance. The problem with the battery light still has not gone away even though I did get some more of the corrosion off the alternator wire. I still want to clean it more.

The slow cranking problem has returned but it maybe because the rpms are to high and the car gets a little to hot. I found out while I was cleaning the alternator wire that the site glass on the carb is leaking gas.

You guys seems to know alot about these cars. My question is I see 2 screws on either side of the site glass. Can I tighten them to see if the leak stops? Or am I going to do more damage to it. I believe there is a o ring or gasket on the other side of the glass I'm not 100% sure about this. I did bump up the rpms a bit before I started do everything and that might have something to do with the slow starting problem seeing how this only happens when the car has been driven and is hot. I would like to take care of this and then lower the rpms back to see if this is my problem with the slow start and not just the problem with the wire on the alternator.

I just checked my emergency flashers and found the front drivers side is having a problem I need to look into that 2.

[Oldblueaccord]

While your wiring checking I would flip over the main fuse box under the dash there is a main connection under there might be dirty as well.

Think about getting a small meter to check the actually voltage at your battery,starter etc. it will help you figure out if the battery voltage is really low or not.

Also the carb choke heater is part of the alternator light circuit. There is a write up in the carb section someplace.

[lx 1986]

Thanks Oldblue for answering.

I just changed the 2 signal bulbs in the front. I finally found the bulbs I need for the side markers. I guess the car is so old that some places don't stock them or very little. I will change them out sometime this week I think some might be corroded.

As for the carb choke heater I think what your talking about is this connector I see that is hooked up to something that's under the carb that looks like a black plate. The site glass is above it and I noticed the wire is wet. I thought the cover on the wire was just shiny until I saw the gas dripping. I will check out the other things you suggest. I will look through the other posts to see if I can find the info your talking about too.

Thank you for all your help and Merry Christmas

I'll post some more about my progress either before or after the holidays.

[Oldblueaccord]

Couple I dug up...

https://www.3geez.com/forum/3geez-accords/77580-alternator-probs.html?highlight=Carb+choke+heater

https://www.3geez.com/forum/3geez-accords/77572-89-burning-up-alternators.html


Also if your timing is advanced it will make the starter drag on a hot motor. Usually you will notice a little "dieseling" run on on engine shut down.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

[Dr_Snooz]

I don't know what the sight glasses look like exactly, but you shouldn't have any trouble re-sealing them without doing a complete overhaul of the carb. Permatex #1 is a gas resistant silicone gasket maker. If you can, just remove the glasses and reseal them with the Permatex. Obviously you want to make certain the gas is in fact leaking from the sight glasses and not somewhere else before diving in.

[lx 1986]

I finished changing out 17 exterior bulbs. Front bulbs some were almost gone not surprising since some haven't been changed in awhile. Headlights and license plate bulbs are good.

When I was checking out the gas leak on the carb's site glass I decided to take pictures and send it to my pc for a better look to make sure it was only leaking from the site glass as suggested by Dr Snooze. I took the air cleaner off and looked at the gas level and it was in an angle instead of level. I thought it was the lighting. I took the pic and zoomed in on the site glass. Would you believe there is a o ring stuck inside of the site glass sitting sideways. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I took a q tip and pushed on the glass I could feel the glass give a little. I assume the o ring was supposed to seal the site glass and somehow came loose. I guess they did'nt tighten it down enough.

Now all I need to know is if I remove the 2 screws on the site glass is there going to be alot of gas coming out or just what's behind the glass. Would a few rags put down to soak up the gas be enough or is there something else I need to do.

In what order does every thing fit together can anyone help me with this? Is it o ring 1st, then glass and then cover?

Can I reuse the o ring or do I need to buy a new one?
Also how do I get the gas back in there, is it by pumping the gas pedal?

I'm wondering if the problem with the battery light flashing is related to the gas leaking on the carb heater core wire like Oldblueaccord suggested. The slow start after the car is hot may be related to the o ring being stuck in there too. I noticed when I have the slow start problem if I give it a little gas it starts right up. I always thought that was an odd thing.

[lx 1986]

Here's an update of what I've done since last posted.

I was going to fix the sight glass. 2 screws, sight glass and change o ring seems simply. Before I started I took a q-tip and pressed on the glass and tried to sop up some of the gas. I noticed I could feel the glass give a little thought it was because the o ring was out.

What I thought I was seeing was the o ring turned out to be an optical illusion. The screws were not snugged down. They tightened them so tight they cracked the glass in half. What I was seeing was the crack in the glass. It cracked right in the middle and the crack looked like the gas level line and at a certain angle appeared to look like an o ring. I couldn't remove the screws no matter what I tried. I ended up taking it to a shop just to have them loosened. I took the car home took off the metal piece that holds the glass in and found it was broken in half. The o ring was right where its was supposed to be. Luckily I had my old carb and was able to use the glass from that one which I took off simply by using a screw driver. I guess snugging something to this company means to have the Hulk tighten it until it breaks. I wouldn't recommend this company to anyone. They do shoddy work. Something like this should not have happened. I'm no mechanic but I know when you have a gasket you only snug the parts down.

Checked sight glass the other day it wasn't leaking anymore. I cleaned up carb to see if the glass was the only problem at this point. I dried off the wire connected to the carb heater plate. I drove it the other day and it ran much better now that the gas level is right and it started much better. Can't do much this week because of the weather.

I will update again soon

[lx 1986]

I wanted to finish with the results of what I've been doing.

Reason why battery light was flickering when I stepped on the brakes was bad alternator when there was a load on the car. Found out by doing a load test with my multimeter. I did a test on positive and negative side of circuit. See youtube videos there is plenty of info of how to do this. Positive side was the problem. I also cleaned up and changed some of my lights which were corroded and putting a draw on the electrical power. Problem is now fixed.

I thought the problem with the starter would be fixed once the alternator was replaced but no such luck. I checked the starter and the power wire and found nothing wrong with them. Turns out the dizzy had a crack in the vacuum advance. Replaced dizzy and now the slow start problem is fixed. But I'm having another problem with dizzy being defective which I describe in my other post Distributor problem.

I hope this helps someone.