Coolant leak behind timing cover.

[Haru]

I got to drive the accord last night for the first time since the day i bought it.
1987 LXI.

this morning i drove down to work and let it idle in the parking lot as i got ready to check the timing.

after it was finished i saw a small puddle on the floor. a quick peak under the car and i can see that it is wet at the base of the timing cover between the timing cover and the oil pan.

its hard to see the bottom edge of where the water pump meets the block, but from what i can see the water pump looks dry. theres no splash residue or anything.on the metal around it.

ive had the car jacked up and running for the last half hour. im getting a slow drip that seems to be seeping down the block between the engine and timing cover. the water pump looks dry, but its hard to get a good look at it. the water pump pulley has a noticeable wobble at idle. so its entirely possible that the seal inside has sprung a leak. the weep hole looks dry.

so, i was curious if there are any coolant freeze plus anywhere on the block behind the timing cover? or any sensors that might leak?
id like to get a good idea before i start tearing into things. since pretty much everything has to be removed to reach the timing belt i dont want to make extra work for myself if i dont need to.

thanks guys.

[gcovarrubias412]

I had the exact same issue. The water pump gasket is the cause. I have an 84, but im sure the engine layout is relatively similar. I had to take off the mount and the belt cover.

[Dr_Snooz]

That is a VERY good question, and yes, there is a freeze plug back there. I'll also mention that freeze plug failures are rare in these cars. Everything else in the cooling system can fail, and probably will if it hasn't been maintained well, but the freeze plugs seem to hold well.

[Haru]

ok guys. thanks for the tip. i ordered a new water pump and hopefully i can get it swapped out soon.
i figure ill get the engine a little warm. undress it and then put on a coolant system pressure tester to see if i can identify the source of the leak. the pulley on the current pump started wiggling and screaming pretty bad after driving it the other night, so i was going to replace it anyways.
hope this fixes my issue and i can move on to the next step. smogging it. :crying:

[profquad]

on mine, the bolt that goes through the alternator harness is the most difficult mfer ever, so use plenty of blaster, curse a bunch, and hang in there!

[Dr_Snooz]

Are you talking about the one that tensions the belt? Yeah, that one is fun for sure. I bought one 12mm ratcheting box end wrench just for that bolt.

@Haru: You won't have any trouble with smog, but if you do, post your issue here first.

[Haru]

ive decided im going to do the timing belt while i am in there.

since its really tight anyway, i wanted to remove the lower timing cover in order to check exactly where the coolant is leaking from, i figure now is the best time to do the timing belt while its all apart.

im pretty much going to overhaul the entire cooling system. parts are affordable enough that i might as well replace everything while the system is discharged.

as far as the smog goes, i bought it from the previous owner after he failed smog and didnt want to spend any money fixing it since he had a newer car to drive.

it passed 15mph with flying colors. but fails at 25mph across the board. hc is slightly above max. nox is slightly below. but CO was like 5 times the limit.

i did a full ignition tuneup on it and changed out the pcv valve. added marvel mystery oil to the cylinders when i had the plugs out, as well as in the oil and gas.
i was hoping to burn it all out, change the oil and retest it, but then the water pump issue came up.

i honestly think it needs a catalytic converter. it doesnt choke the engine when it heats up, but i think its tired and no longer efficient. i found a universal california compliant one on rock auto for 65 shipped. i figure its affordable enough that i can swap it out and not have to resort to the e85 trick.

im tempted to set the timing at 13* and go to the smog station and get a pretest with fresh gas and see how it does. might not need it after all.
im not sure. it got labeled a gross polluter and im hoping i can just retest it after its fixed without having to go to a ref or something like that.

[gcovarrubias412]

ive decided im going to do the timing belt while i am in there.

since its really tight anyway, i wanted to remove the lower timing cover in order to check exactly where the coolant is leaking from, i figure now is the best time to do the timing belt while its all apart.

im pretty much going to overhaul the entire cooling system. parts are affordable enough that i might as well replace everything while the system is discharged.

as far as the smog goes, i bought it from the previous owner after he failed smog and didnt want to spend any money fixing it since he had a newer car to drive.

it passed 15mph with flying colors. but fails at 25mph across the board. hc is slightly above max. nox is slightly below. but CO was like 5 times the limit.

i did a full ignition tuneup on it and changed out the pcv valve. added marvel mystery oil to the cylinders when i had the plugs out, as well as in the oil and gas.
i was hoping to burn it all out, change the oil and retest it, but then the water pump issue came up.

i honestly think it needs a catalytic converter. it doesnt choke the engine when it heats up, but i think its tired and no longer efficient. i found a universal california compliant one on rock auto for 65 shipped. i figure its affordable enough that i can swap it out and not have to resort to the e85 trick.

im tempted to set the timing at 13* and go to the smog station and get a pretest with fresh gas and see how it does. might not need it after all.
im not sure. it got labeled a gross polluter and im hoping i can just retest it after its fixed without having to go to a ref or something like that.

The coolant is most likely gonna be from the underside of the water pump.

[InAccordance]

I'll say it again, thank god I live in a state that doesn't have bullshit inspections lol

[Dr_Snooz]

Has no one told you? California's biggest export crop is deranged leftists now. They're fleeing the mess they made here. My brother used to brag about not having smog checks in Texas, so we sent him enough crazies that he can't brag anymore. You don't want to notify us that we missed a state or we'll direct the next refugee wave there. FWIW, Cali does have a handful of counties with no smog check requirements. You could conceivably buy property in one of them (maybe even rent a PO Box?) and not have to get tested, if that's important to you.

At any rate, I haven't found the smog checks to be especially onerous if you keep your car in good repair and stock condition. The test for all the new cars is really simple. They plug in a computer, download the info and you're done. I don't think they even open the hood and it takes less than 15 minutes. Even with the full test, 3g's don't have much trouble passing. The inconvenience is the expense of the test, the time and the ridiculous vehicle reg fees they just raised again. Best news is that the Dems have super-majorities in both houses of the state legislature and the governorship too. We've been fully captured by evil. I just had a fighting rooster farm move in across the street from my home. No lie. It's the most ungodly racket you've ever heard and it's in full swing by 4 am every morning. Sheriffs will do nothing about it. Maybe they will when MS-13 starts carving up bodies over there? Or more likely, it will be the sheriff's bodies that they're carving up.

God help us.

@Haru, your plan is good. I would add a compression check to my list if I were you, just to rule out major engine problems. If the car runs good though, that's probably not necessary. Keep us posted on how it goes. There's really no reason for a 3g to go to the crusher because of smog.

[Haru]

i live in los angeles county. im already used to it. half the people i grew up with preach that smug leftist rhetoric. i pay no attention. just go on with my life. haha

the car has about 282k miles on it now. the guy i bought it from said that the motor and transmission were rebuilt. i dont know if its true or not, but the engine revs smooth and pulls nice and the trans shifts like butter. the interior is immaculate other than the driver side door panel. you can tell whoever owned it for most of its life took real good care of it.

i was gonna do valve seals on it since i get a random smoke cloud on some cold starts. figured id reset the valve lash in the process. valvetrain gets a bit noisy by 3k rpm and seemed to be a little on the loose side when i checked it with a feeler guage the other night. ill check the compression after, but honestly i think the motor is in great shape internally. the iridium plugs that came out of it looked perfect. but i swapped them for stock ngks.

the smog shops around me are pretty strict. i think im gonna raise it up to stock height and take the foglights off before i go so it just looks like an old car and they dont give me a hard time. if they see that you have a newer catalytic converter on your car with their mirror inspection tool they will jack the car up and go under it to read the california compliant numbers off of it. its pretty lame, but what can you do.

i did have a chance to swap the water pump out yesterday. sure enough it was the o ring gasket that had gotten flat and failed. nice and clean behind the timing cover otherwise. freeze plug was tight and not leaking. the only problem i ran into, was that the waterpump pulley is warped from some bozo prying on it to crack the bolts loose. im gonna go to the jy tomorrow to get a nice one. they have a few 3gs over there. i also want to grab the upper arms off a 3g prelude while im there. and i want to yank the bumper off of it too to see how it fits on a 3g accord. i love the front ends on 91 prelude, they look like mini nsx.

timing belt and tensioner looked new and were oem honda. maybe he was telling the truth when he said he had it replaced last year. im gonna replace it anyways. still waiting on my order from rock auto for the rest of my stuff.

i want to paint the valve cover while i have it off but not sure what color. i do really like the vht engine metallic in gold. type r style red wrinkle paint was the hot shit when i was into hondas as a teenager.
almost any color looks good in a white engine bay, so idk what to do yet. some of the factory wrinkle paint has chipped off in a couple small spots, so id have to strip it all down to paint it right.

[InAccordance]

Tennessee is so right wing that crap would never pass lol
They've tried multiple times in the past to do inspections (there are actually a couple counties that do around the Nashville area) statewide but it gets voted down every time.
I have heard about the mass exodus out of California though. Even companies are leaving due to the taxes and bullshit laws.

You want the 2g Prelude upper arms. I think the 3g ones work but require modification. The 2g ones bolt right in with some washers and the ball joints are adjustable and replacable.

oh god I remember the red wrinkle paint, seemed like EVERYONE did that back then lol
Had mine done by an old member here but I cannot remember who it was that did it. It's an FI valve cover on a carb engine lol
https://i.imgur.com/TqJsKFxl.jpg

[Haru]

ok cool, i got a set of 2g prelude arms from the yard the other day. also ordered new ball joints and bushings for them. hopefully i can rebuild and install them soon.
i thought i had read somewhere that 3g arms fit without having to use the accord bolt and washers to space it. the only draw back with them being that they were not as adjustable as the 2g arm

as far as the water pump goes, im still waiting on all my belts to show up so i can put it back together.

[Haru]

finally had a chance to get it all back together today and it started up and ran great without any leaks.

i put the front end up on some ramps and filled it till it reached the top of the radiator. started it up without the cap on and let it run till the thermostat opened. topped it off again and closed the cap and let it run for about ten minutes. i noticed that both upper and lower hoses got hot, but didnt have a ton of pressure when i squeezed them. it was really cold today, so its possible the engine didnt really get that warm just idling . i had to leave the shop, so i will check it again and top it off again if it needs it on monday morning.

im excited its running again so now i can finally try to smog it and drive it as my daily. im so tired of driving this hummer around. gas kills me with it.

[Oldblueaccord]

finally had a chance to get it all back together today and it started up and ran great without any leaks.

i put the front end up on some ramps and filled it till it reached the top of the radiator. started it up without the cap on and let it run till the thermostat opened. topped it off again and closed the cap and let it run for about ten minutes. i noticed that both upper and lower hoses got hot, but didnt have a ton of pressure when i squeezed them. it was really cold today, so its possible the engine didnt really get that warm just idling . i had to leave the shop, so i will check it again and top it off again if it needs it on monday morning.

im excited its running again so now i can finally try to smog it and drive it as my daily. im so tired of driving this hummer around. gas kills me with it.

There is a bleeder bolt on the thermostat housing you need to bleed out trapped air out of the system or its going to give you trouble.

Theres a procedure here someplace its very common on Hondas and modern cars in general. I wish my 6.4 hemi had one.

[Haru]

thats good to know.
it seemed as if there was some air trapped in the system.
the idle did something funny it has never done yesterday while it was warming up.
it was surging, almost as if it had a vacuum leak. but once it warmed up the surging went away, but the idle was a little rougher than usual.
i will crack the bleeder valve open and attach a hose to it an let it burp the system a bit. i left it on ramps since yesterday, so hopefully that will give it some incentive to move some air to the top.

what is the procedure that works best for you?

open the bleeder with the engine running and radiator cap closed?

open bleeder with engine running and cap open?

open bleeder with engine off and fill till fluid comes out with no bubbles?

[Haru]

with use of the bleeder valve and running the heater on max hot, i believe i got all the air out.
took it out on the highway for half an hour and it ran perfect. also no weird surging idle on cold start.
there was definitely quite a bit of air still trapped in the system before bleeding.
heater also blows nice and hot now.
thanks guys.