Thinking of making the 88 the daily business car again.

[conozo]

Share your thoughts with me.

I have two cars. 2000 Honda Insight, 1988 Accord, both are manual by the way. I'm having a hard time justifying owning two cars and am trying to minimize the amount I own so I don't have to spend more time maintaining everything. So the Insight is a great little car but it has its flaws, it does MPG really well 65mpg city but it doesn't really do anything else well such as ride comfort, noise level, power, 2 seats, etc. I'm considering selling the Insight and could get about 4.5k for it. Now, can I make a 31 year old car my daily business driver? I am a computer tech and drive all over the city in northen Indiana. The accord does need a few things sorted out first which i plan on fixing anyways, oil drip so i can park on driveways, wheel well rust / rust proofing. Of course it needs a bunch of other little things to make it perfect but i was going to do those anyways but would be able to make it better faster if i actually drove it and needed it.

Some negatives for the accord
-no AC, i often sit in the car in the summer working on a computer remotely before my next appointment. I did rip the AC out years ago and i guess i could put it back in and upgrade it to R34
-parts availability, i could overnight parts if i needed but they need to actually be available to ship in the first place

Some positives for the accord
-converted to FI for driveability
-5 seats, not enough for my 5 kids but better than only 1 extra seat in the Insight
-Engine and tranny are rebuilt

For those who don't know, i love working on cars doing any kind of repair, and out of all my friends, I would be the one person daily driving an old car as everyone else would be too scared to do it. I'm also making plans on adding a shop with a lift to my house and it would be a lot cheaper to make a two car garage (for the accord and my wifes Odyssey) than a three car garage.

Last question. I know everyone here has an accord, but how many of you actually daily drive it in good and bad weather?

[carotman]

I drive a Honda Fit as a daily driver.

Perfect little car to haul stuff around.

[AC439]

I have 3 Hondas - 2007 Civic EX, 2000 Accord LX V6 and the 86 LXi. I never feel like I cannot daily drive my 86 Accord. In fact, I feel much more confident that my 86 Lxi will not break down on the road. Lately, I have been troubleshooting a slight misfire issue but again, it always starts and will definitely get me where I need to go. Just few years back, I had some work contracts that required me to drive 70+ miles one way and I was on my 86 Accord, no problem.

Recently, my wife has been pressuring me on reducing time working on cars and also not happy about owning multiple cars. For now, we have a total of 4 vehicles for a family of 4 that everyone is driving. Very soon, older child will go somewhere for his master degree. We are thinking leasing him a vehicle for the sake of warranty. Therefore, I will very likely be under pressure to get rid of a Honda (which I don't want to)....

My Hondas are in good shape. I know I can sell them but I would never get them back after they are gone.....

[2oodoor]

I daily drove the mess out of mine in the cooler months, love it. I would bite the bullet and reinstall all new ac and sell the Insight!

[2oodoor]

I have 3 Hondas - 2007 Civic EX, 2000 Accord LX V6 and the 86 LXi. I never feel like I cannot daily drive my 86 Accord. In fact, I feel much more confident that my 86 Lxi will not break down on the road. Lately, I have been troubleshooting a slight misfire issue but again, it always starts and will definitely get me where I need to go. Just few years back, I had some work contracts that required me to drive 70+ miles one way and I was on my 86 Accord, no problem.

Recently, my wife has been pressuring me on reducing time working on cars and also not happy about owning multiple cars. For now, we have a total of 4 vehicles for a family of 4 that everyone is driving. Very soon, older child will go somewhere for his master degree. We are thinking leasing him a vehicle for the sake of warranty. Therefore, I will very likely be under pressure to get rid of a Honda (which I don't want to)....

My Hondas are in good shape. I know I can sell them but I would never get them back after they are gone.....

Im biased, not a fan of 2000 Accords or v6 hondas lol, sell that one :D

[InAccordance]

I loved the 2000 v6 one we had but those things were notorious for bad auto transmissions and the v6 was only available with an auto in that generation.
It would scoot pretty good though.

I daily my 89 and I've done crazy shit to it, it's loud as fuck, rides good but def way stiffer than stock but she's a beast and so fun to drive I dont mind driving it daily =D

[AC439]

I got my 2000 V6 with low miles and in excellent condition 3 years ago. A mechanic friend called me as soon as someone dropped it to him for sale. Interior is very clean, no rip seats and still had some new car smells. It had 108611 miles when I bought it. Its a very comfortable car but also a little boring overall. I was warned about the common tranny issue so I drained and refilled with Honda fluid 3 times also added Lubegard. It has not given me any tranny problems so far. Just a few minor problems such as air mix motor, windows regulators etc, easy fix. My younger son driving it to college and be expect to last him the next 4 years. He's taking good care of it so the car looks pretty decent inside out. Definitely not planning to sell it.

The 07 Civic drives and feels like a toy (just not too much of a solid feel overall). Good fuel efficiency, everything works. I would say around town is ok but long trip may not be too comfy. This is the car wife wants to get rid of when older child moves out. But it is still a very very good car and I got it from the same mechanic friend (whom will call me whenever somebody has a Honda for him to sell for). It looks good inside out, no rip seats and very clean. You really don't see this kind of condition often on private sale and I know I will regret once I sell it....

Wife also wants me to get rid of the 86 Accord. I'm investigating into any benefits of putting an antique plate on it. Maybe it will cost less insurance ? I know the plate is for the life of the car. But DMV info says the car is supposed to be driven only to car shows or to repair shop, not for daily. Not sure chances of getting pull over if I drive it on a regular day....

[2oodoor]

That’s a tough decision for sure. Probably get the most money for the 07, even though for practicality/usefullness they’re all pretty much equal value.
It’s funny, every make car made in the past 30 yrs has that common failure of window regulators, blend air door hardware, add to that hvac electronic fan speed controlers and light control modules lol both of which used to be simple electromechanical relays and rheostats, all they did was integrate them in a black box and made them expensive proprietary devices you had to buy at the dealership untill the aftermarket caught up :)

[conozo]

Not sure about the historic plates in Florida, but here there are two kinds of historic plates, one just says historic which is what I have and there are no limitations. The other historic plates is for only car shows like you said.

I think I'm going to try it. I'll fix a few necessary things on the Accord drive it for a month or so then sell the insight. If it really doesn't work then I would probably just buy another main car, Civic or fit probably.

[Dr_Snooz]

I daily mine 90 miles a day. Like you, I have a fairly new engine and trans. The car does great and driving it is its own reward. It's so nimble, quick and responsive. The gigantic lumbering crates called cars nowadays can't get around the road like a 3g. No car is better than a 3g for slithering through heavy traffic full of stupid drivers (with the possible exception of an '80s CRX). Before people know what's happened, I'm around them and they can only honk in frustration.

Yes, parts are getting harder to find now, and if I crunch a body panel, I won't be finding another. However, there are still a lot of parts available and they are obscenely cheap on Rock Auto these days. One of the things I most love about the 3g is that everything gives a LONG lead time before failing. Stuff doesn't simply fail, leaving you stranded. It develops symptoms that you can manage for a loooooooong time before they become so annoying that you change them out of frustration (think main relay). That's the kind of car I want. My 4g left me stranded before work one day with a bad ICM. I never forgave it.

3g reliability is great, but these are old cars and they do serve up surprises occasionally. The other morning my battery was stone dead because the brake light switch stopper on the brake pedal disintegrated and left the brake lights on all night. It was a cheap fix and I have like 4 other cars around here to use if the 3g barfs. The car isn't likely to leave me stranded (I have Chevys for that, LOL), but you're wise to have a backup strategy in place.

It goes without saying that I'm hyper-vigilant with maintenance. The car gets the best of everything and every weekend, I'm out inspecting, diagnosing, test-fitting, planning and fixing. If I don't find the problems first, they'll find me at a time that doesn't fit into my schedule. I'm also thinking ahead to the stuff that might fail and enacting preventive measures. When the PS fluid gets dark, I replace it. I pull the dizzie apart to lube the advance mechanisms so that part lasts longer. Etc.

If you are cool with that level of care, your 3g will be a lot of fun. Definitely fix the AC though, and fix it right. A car that's a drag to live with is one you'll want to get rid of. Stay on top of the livability issues so you don't get bummed out and chuck the car. Fix the squeaks and rattles and the broken bits in the cabin. When I open door panels now, I add sound-proofing. I remove the blower fan just to reseal it so that Recirc really recircs. That kind of stuff is very important. You don't want to feel like you're driving around in an old, broke-down car.

I guess what I'm saying is that driving an old car is more a mental battle than anything else. If you have the commitment, you can make it work fine. If you don't, then you'll leave little things go until they pile up and one day you realize that you're driving a POS and want to get rid of it.

Hope that helps.

[conozo]

Snooz, that was helpful. Those are all things I had been thinking about. Like you I am super vigilant about fixing everything and I would do the same for the 3gee too. And i have always thought that this car does give warnings before somethings break. I will be buying one of those lithium battery jump starter things in case of battery issues. Fun fact, i have only needed to jump the 3gee a couple times but it has jumped literally 50-60 cars in its lifetime.

I talked to my wife about it and she thought I was going to sell the 3gee instead of the insight when i started talking about it, but then asked me why I like it so much. I said well, everything I like about cars it has. Light weight, small, simple, utilitarian, handles very well, 4 cylinder, I don't like newer cars or cars that have big engines and are really fast/too fast for public roads. It fits everything I would be looking for in a car except for the age and wear and tear.

[InAccordance]

I Had a '13 Focus that within a year of buying it, both front window motors went out. Brand new car (at the time).... and yet my almost 30 year old Accord's work just fine. Go figure.

[AC439]

Not sure about the historic plates in Florida, but here there are two kinds of historic plates, one just says historic which is what I have and there are no limitations. The other historic plates is for only car shows like you said.


Spoke with an insurance friend today, was told it doesn't matter what plate I use on the car. Only thing counts is if I'm driving it and how much I'm driving. So historic plate or not, it just doesn't matter.

[AC439]

...I talked to my wife about it and she thought I was going to sell the 3gee instead of the insight when i started talking about it, but then asked me why I like it so much. I said well, everything I like about cars it has. Light weight, small, simple, utilitarian, handles very well, 4 cylinder, I don't like newer cars or cars that have big engines and are really fast/too fast for public roads. It fits everything I would be looking for in a car except for the age and wear and tear.

My wife always thinks I should get rid of my 86 accord. She doesn't like it and hates seeing me have the engine hood pop open. She never ask me why I like it so much.

[Dr_Snooz]

I won't be taking car advice from a gender that likes Nissan Cubes.

[InAccordance]

I won't be taking car advice from a gender that likes Nissan Cubes.

omg, I'm fucking dying over here!

[Dr_Snooz]

;-)

[Honda#1]

I daily mine 90 miles a day. Like you, I have a fairly new engine and trans. The car does great and driving it is its own reward. It's so nimble, quick and responsive. The gigantic lumbering crates called cars nowadays can't get around the road like a 3g. No car is better than a 3g for slithering through heavy traffic full of stupid drivers (with the possible exception of an '80s CRX). Before people know what's happened, I'm around them and they can only honk in frustration.

Yes, parts are getting harder to find now, and if I crunch a body panel, I won't be finding another. However, there are still a lot of parts available and they are obscenely cheap on Rock Auto these days. One of the things I most love about the 3g is that everything gives a LONG lead time before failing. Stuff doesn't simply fail, leaving you stranded. It develops symptoms that you can manage for a loooooooong time before they become so annoying that you change them out of frustration (think main relay). That's the kind of car I want. My 4g left me stranded before work one day with a bad ICM. I never forgave it.

3g reliability is great, but these are old cars and they do serve up surprises occasionally. The other morning my battery was stone dead because the brake light switch stopper on the brake pedal disintegrated and left the brake lights on all night. It was a cheap fix and I have like 4 other cars around here to use if the 3g barfs. The car isn't likely to leave me stranded (I have Chevys for that, LOL), but you're wise to have a backup strategy in place.

It goes without saying that I'm hyper-vigilant with maintenance. The car gets the best of everything and every weekend, I'm out inspecting, diagnosing, test-fitting, planning and fixing. If I don't find the problems first, they'll find me at a time that doesn't fit into my schedule. I'm also thinking ahead to the stuff that might fail and enacting preventive measures. When the PS fluid gets dark, I replace it. I pull the dizzie apart to lube the advance mechanisms so that part lasts longer. Etc.

If you are cool with that level of care, your 3g will be a lot of fun. Definitely fix the AC though, and fix it right. A car that's a drag to live with is one you'll want to get rid of. Stay on top of the livability issues so you don't get bummed out and chuck the car. Fix the squeaks and rattles and the broken bits in the cabin. When I open door panels now, I add sound-proofing. I remove the blower fan just to reseal it so that Recirc really recircs. That kind of stuff is very important. You don't want to feel like you're driving around in an old, broke-down car.

I guess what I'm saying is that driving an old car is more a mental battle than anything else. If you have the commitment, you can make it work fine. If you don't, then you'll leave little things go until they pile up and one day you realize that you're driving a POS and want to get rid of it.

Hope that helps.

Well put, bro.

I like your analogy of these new cars on the road.

[Dr_Snooz]

It's funny because I'd guess that 70% of the cars on the road now are "better" than my 3g by every metric. They have more HP, higher skid pad ratings, way faster 0-60 times, higher top speeds, etc. Still my humble 3g is blasting around them every morning. With my long commute, I have lots of time to ponder such mysteries each day.

The problem is that the metrics, while good, don't capture what's really important in a car. For instance, the skid pad tells how fast a car can go before it begins sliding. That fails to address the vastly more important question of what happens AFTER the car starts sliding. The 3g drifts sideways in a completely controllable fashion. My '76 Accord would let go, spin around and throw itself in a ditch. Both might have had similar skid pad ratings, but one could go around real world corners much more quickly than the other. Similarly, top speed is irrelevant because practically speaking, you can only ever go as fast as the cars in front of you. Again, 0-60 time is really only important if you're trying to beat someone from a traffic light. That does come up, but rarely for me. Most of the time I'm shooting a hole, trying to get around a slow car in traffic. In that case, acceleration must be balanced by handling (the car can't dive when you cut back in at the last second) and braking (in case you fail and don't want to rear end someone.) I tried shooting a hole with my old Bimmer once and only once. When I cut back in, the front dove so badly I never tried it again. The Bimmer (reputed to be the "finest handling car in the world) was a marvelous car with a narrow and hard edged envelope. Once you pushed past the envelope, it fell apart. You couldn't push it. Even though it was superior to the 3g by all quantitative measures, it couldn't do what the 3g could. That's why the Bimmer is gone, but I still have the 3g.

I think the immeasurable je ne se quois that makes the 3g so good is two-fold: precision and predictability. There is never a question what the car is going to do. When I bomb a corner way too fast, there is no question whether I'll hold my line. I can run the passenger wheel over one-half of a dime sitting on top of a reflector bump at the apex of a 30 MPH corner when I'm going 60 with no problem. I can drive the car way beyond its abilities and it holds together. I can sling it around in any old way and never wonder what might happen. That is something that very, very few cars can do, much less a cheap econobox that anyone can buy.

[conozo]

I once took a right hand turn going 55mph. I didn't think I was going to make it but all four tires screamed all the way through and I made it. It's not something I will be doing again as it scared me and it's hard to believe that driving down a road at 55mph I could just turn onto a sidestreet without braking even though I did it.

Along those same lines I always feel safer in this car over others simply by the fact that I can swerve at any speed to avoid things.

[AC439]

20 + years ago, my wife was driving the accord home after work on a rural stretch. One rear tire went flat and the car did 180 slide into the grass on the side of the road. Someone helped put on the spare and she came home. Next day I had the flat fix and the car drive like nothing had happened.

I feel I'm very connected with the car. I think its because for most part, it is still mechanical. Modern day "electronic this" and "electronic that" disconnect the driver from the car.

My only complaint is I'm still riding on stock 13" alloy with 185/70/13 and the tires feel inadequate during rain. It skids if I brake too hard, but the whole car is very very stable during skid. I'm still working on the 2k misfire issue and thinking putting another set like 15" with a little wider tires.

[InAccordance]

Go get you some 205 60 13s on it. Had some of those on the 2g Prelude I had years ago, thing was glued to the road.

[AC439]

Go get you some 205 60 13s on it. Had some of those on the 2g Prelude I had years ago, thing was glued to the road.

My God ! Those are at least $120 a piece !

[Dr_Snooz]

My God ! Those are at least $120 a piece !

LOL. Have you priced body work lately? ...or funerals?

x2 on getting wider tires, but also look at your tire brand. I can't believe how different tires can be. I've had tires that wobbled incessantly, tires that reduced my MPG by 20%, tires that separated dangerously at 6 years old, tires that wore out in 20k miles. All of them were respected name brands. And I've had other tires (Michelin) that were ancient, beat to hell and were still dead smooth at 100 MPH. I've heard stories about tires (Michelin) lasting 100k miles and other stories to the effect "If we hadn't been driving Michelins, we'd be dead."

I'm not saying you need to buy Michelins, because sadly, they don't make our (my) size anymore. Do be aware, though, that tire brand makes a big difference.

[AC439]

No I haven't priced my own funeral yet. LOL But if I can do it cheaper compare to my Accord ....

I have been thinking getting a set of honda 15" rims so I can have much more options for tires. Even now, 13" tires are hard to find in my area... Have to call around to get one or two but usually they won't have it if I walk in. Not to mention 205/60/13 tires !

[night]

Find some cheap rims to fit Firestone Indy 500's. Amazing and cheap tires.

[InAccordance]

My God ! Those are at least $120 a piece !

Only reason is because the SCCA and autocross guys use them so they jack the price up knowing they can get away with it.
They are awesome tires though so worth the price imo.

I was thinking of getting some and keeping the steelies but then I found a 4 piston caliper kit and they require a 15" wheel minimum.

[Honda#1]

I daily drive my oldies in the spring thru fall or early winter if there is a warm spell just because I live where winters are nasty and salt is used in insane amounts especially this winter. And I love being connected to the car. My winter daily is a 6th gen Accord and it's heading slowly to the classic car world being 20 years old (I know, it doesn't even feel like it, growing up I remember when these were new or at least a few years old and I did like their looks) but compared to my oldies it's not that fun. And the electronics when starting it up tells the car to idle at start up in -20 temps at 2,000 rpm but with my oldies I have to keep them alive myself, listening for the fuel pump engaging, pumping on the carb'd one in cycles attempting to start. And all these new cars I just hate them. I can't stand them. They are making people disconnected from the road and the car and make driving less pleasurable. They are super slow in traffic, holding us all up that want to GO because the driver is too distracted with the electronic gadgets, while I would zip by in my classy 2g or 3g. I agree, the 3g Accord handles better than the previous or newer Accords with the exception of the CB7 Accord. The 3g is the Accord equivalent to the 4g Civic.

[conozo]

I have oficially decided to make the 3gee the daily driver all year around. Haven't gotten everything sorted out but it will be this spring and summer. In my daily 2000 Insight I hit a deer on the way to work last week, its out of commission right now so the 3gee was forced into daily mode a little prematurely. Luckily its been warm enough not to need heat (dont have the heater controls installed yet) and there probably wont be another good snow since i have summer tires on it now. Its been so nice driving it and parking it in the garage. Funny thing is when I drive this I always get someone trying to race me just about everyday, and i had the police on the highway follow me for a while. That never happened with the Insight. I would drive right past sitting police in the Insight going 60 in a 30 and they would never care, its as if that thing was impervious to radar since it was 100% aluminum.

Here are some pictures of the insight. Hit it going about 45mph and it flew up in the air. Never saw it come back down. The car does still work fine but I'm not driving it until its fixed since there are so many loose parts that it might make it worse driving it.
http://honda.conozo.com/pics_insight/InsightDeer(1).jpg
http://honda.conozo.com/pics_insight/InsightDeer(3).jpg

[Dr_Snooz]

Seems to have fared pretty well really. Have fun in the 3g and don't get too many tickets.