Source for a cylinder head

[AC439]

So I have done many many things to try to eliminate the 2k vibration to no avail. (To recap - the 2k vibration starts after I re-tighten head bolts a while ago)

I even have the head gasket changed again but still not resolving the issue. When I last pulled the head out, I checked flatness and it was fine. But I did not know (still don't know) enough to do valve seat\stem seal etc. After many months of troubleshooting and replacing quite a number of things, I came to the conclusion that the head is probably the cause of the problem. And I was the one that messed it up when I re-tighten the head bolts since the vibration starts right after re-tightened the bolts. I suspect I might have cause a hairline crack somewhere or distorted the valve seats. But the head was checked flat during last pull.

Eventually I want to fix the head, either get a reman one or take it to a head shop. I have found one locally that has good reviews, but I don't know how much they will charge for a complete job (valve seat, pressure test, stem seals etc). The reman one is about $400-500. But I have to assume the reman head has been restore correctly (its mail order so I can't check before getting it).

So which is the better way ? Take it to a local shop ? or order a reman ? Or anyone has a good spare A20A3 head to offer (wouldn't hurt asking)?

-AC

[Wubbywub]

I would search on ebay and car-part.com ; I bought a head w/ valves rockers and a cam for 130 shipped, cleaned it up and home, lapped the valves by hand (1-2 hour job), took it to a machine shop to get decked and pressure tested for 60 bucks, and have a clean fully functional head for under 200$
Cracks are rarely repairable unless they are in a lucky spot that is repairable; I was told my old head which had a hairline crack was toast by every shop because the crack was somewhat close to a valve seat, not even touching.

[Dr_Snooz]

I would take it in for a pressure test before doing anything else. Before you do that, it wouldn't hurt to do a compression test and leak down test at the least. You might also consider getting an oil analysis for a more complete picture of what's going on inside.

[AC439]

I should have done a compression \ leak down test. I have no tools for that....I can borrow tools from autozone but I have no air compressor for the leak down test.

If I take the head out for a pressure test, then I might as well let the head shop restore it. Thing is I don't know how much I should be expected paying...I may have to talk to them and find out.

Car-part.com does show many available but if I get one, I will pay the head shop for test first before install. Advantage is the down time will be minimized. Otherwise, the car will be torn apart sitting there till the head shop fix the original head (I'm afraid they will have to order seals etc so it may take some time)....

[Dr_Snooz]

If you're going to get into the nitty gritty like you are, then you have to tool up. A leakdown tester from Harbor Freight is $50. A compression tester is $30. A compressor is $60. For under $200 you can be confident. You're going to spend a lot more than that to pull the head and have it tested. Consider what you've already spent on this issue and the tools start to look cheaper still. For me, I'd much rather spend money to have a garage full of tools and a car that runs well, than to have no tools, scrap the car because I couldn't fix it and end up with a big loan on a car I don't like. That's the worst possible outcome for me.

Don't buy tools over groceries or rent, of course. Just realize that tools are an investment worth spending. Best part is that once you have them, they're free the next time you need them. Most importantly, you end up with the tools and knowledge to help others.

Worst case, buy the tools used and resell them on Craigslist when you're done. You might even make money on the deal.

Get creative. There is always a way.

[AC439]

With my situation, getting tools is a problem. Not much in terms of financial sense but have a wife that will certainly disapprove. I can sneak in small tools but a compressor cannot be hidden under the shelf without being noticed. If I have a compressor, my life in fixing cars would be a lot easier. I may have to dig around to pay for a leak down test. But I certainly can rent a compression tester and measure all 4 quick before taking it for a leak down test though....

[InAccordance]

Sounds like you need a new wife, not a cylinder head lol.

Kidding of course.

[AC439]

Sounds like you need a new wife, not a cylinder head lol.

Kidding of course.

LOL, not going to happen. We just celebrated our anniversary yesterday.

[Donnyten]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-2-0-SOHC-PJO-ACCORD-PRELUDE-SI-CYLINDER-HEAD-1986-89-REBUILT/160887572218?fits=Year%3A1988%7CModel%3AAccord%7CM ake%3AHonda&epid=1523025643&hash=item2575a586fa:g:WUgAAOSwwbdWGugJ

[AC439]

Thanks, will surely check this option. Just have to look at the code on the head to make sure its the right fit. I know carb and FI are not quite interchangeable. Rebuild shops may not know this.

[AC439]

I found out that Ebay seller has a shop in Clearwater FL. Its about 110 miles away. I checked their google reviews and its only 3.2 stars. I'm kind of hesitate to buy from them due to this low rating.

One thing I have not been able to find out is "What the heck is PJO?" (I searched but cannot search here with 3 letters, I also searched google) The seller shows a pic of the head and it says PJO on it. I checked my car and it is also stamped PJO. Since I never have a carb head, I cannot tell if this PJO stamp is just an arbitrary letters which may also be stamped on a carb head. I hate to buy something and find out won't fit the hard way. So my question is - is the PJO stamp only on FI head ?

There is a head shop nearby which has a very good review on google. I may go ask and check them out and see if it would be a better option and let them rebuild it.

[InAccordance]

PJ0 is the head design with the evenly spaced intake ports. They are oblong with a hump on the top. They are used on the a20a1 and a20a3. Oh, and the fabled a20a4.
They are interchangeable between carb and FI Accords. It's the same head. I even use an FI valve cover on my carb engine, works just fine.
It was also used on the 2g Prelude SI and ONLY the SI. The Prelude carb head is a completely different design. That one has round intake ports.
Edited cause I did remember one difference and that is the distributor mounting. The carb mounts using only two bolts versus the FI using 3. So like that listing says he has single and dual ear versions. Single is carb, dual is FI. Which btw, can be swapped out as it's only two bolts that holds that piece on. It's not a cast part of the head.

[AC439]

PJ0 is the head design with the evenly spaced intake ports. They are oblong with a hump on the top. They are used on the a20a1 and a20a3. Oh, and the fabled a20a4.
They are interchangeable between carb and FI Accords. It's the same head. I even use an FI valve cover on my carb engine, works just fine.
It was also used on the 2g Prelude SI and ONLY the SI. The Prelude carb head is a completely different design. That one has round intake ports.
Edited cause I did remember one difference and that is the distributor mounting. The carb mounts using only two bolts versus the FI using 3. So like that listing says he has single and dual ear versions. Single is carb, dual is FI. Which btw, can be swapped out as it's only two bolts that holds that piece on. It's not a cast part of the head.

Thanks for info and I am a little surprised that I couldn't find this info anywhere. I was able to locate some pictures of the carb and FI heads so I can tell a some difference. Someone here (as I recall) said the carb head intake ports do not have that hump at the top where the fuel injectors needed to spray fuel.

I will certainly reach out to the local shop to get some ideas about pricing for rebuild. Then I will decide which way I want to go.

[InAccordance]

Carb heads do have them.
https://imgur.com/g29PlKI

[AC439]

I am finally able to find more pics about the carb head and the FI head for comparison. Now I know the main difference.

I am still unable to make up my mind about getting a reman head or take it to a shop for a rebuilt. Reman runs about $325 to $380 but not sure how much a shop will charge for a rebuild. There are 2 local head shops have good reviews and I like them. If I get a used head from a JY, I don't really know the condition of it except some visual checks and run a straight edge with feeler gauge. Other then that, I would not know the condition of valve seats or seals.

So, is a readily available reman head desirable or better take the head to a reputable shop for rebuild ?

[InAccordance]

Personally I'd take it to a shop. At least then you can tell em exactly what you want done.

[Dr_Snooz]

If your head is original and you know it's been relatively well treated, I'd rebuild it before getting something from the yard. I've had so many nasty surprises from junkyards.

[AC439]

Thanks. I think I'm also leaning towards rebuild. I can never sure what I will be getting from junk yard. I did try car-part.com and found some yards but they never reply to my inquiry so I don't like them.

Mine is original and I know it is not wrap. But the valves need to be checked with valve stem seals, valve seats etc (I have no experience in this). I still have to do a compression test first. I hate the fact that I do not have compressed air available for leak down test....

[Dr_Snooz]

Get creative. There is always a way.

You should listen to this guy.

https://www.homedepot.com/c/nailers_and_floor_installation_equipment_rental#ai r-compressors

[AC439]

You should listen to this guy.

https://www.homedepot.com/c/nailers_and_floor_installation_equipment_rental#ai r-compressors

Didn't think of that !

[Dr_Snooz]

Apparently, you've never been poor.

[InAccordance]

Apparently, you've never been poor.

Being poor and wanting to work on cars makes you creative lol

[AC439]

I never consider myself rich...LOL

I went to O'Rileys yesterday, spoke with a staff who owned few hondas and asked about his opinion. He did say the head shop I was talking about locally is a good shop and had done head job for him. He can also order a reman head for A20A3 and quote me a discount price as well. He said the reman uses new valves, guides and seals etc and only the housing is used for the reman process.

So again, I am torn between these 2 options. I think I will visit the head shop and show them my wet/dry compression results and see what they say. I have yet to do a leak down though....... LOL

[AC439]

I lucked out today ! I was googling for compressor rental and a local liquidation warehouse popped up with a 3 gallon compressor for $32.

So I played good husband and cleaned the garage and threw away some junks. I told the wife the compressor is cheap and not taking up much space.

We went there and bought the compressor for $32 and a 1.7 cu ft mini fridge for $40.

Next is to go borrow a leak down tester from autozone.....

P.S. I just realized after I posted that there are no leak down tester loan from the typical auto parts stores.

[Jacques]

I am also thinking of getting a rebuilt head from Clearwater Cylinder Head Inc.
Has anyone in here used them before? They offer a 5 year warranty.
I was under the impression that the Lxi had a different cam profile or timing from the carb. DX version. Anyone know? Are all the camshafts the same?

[AC439]

I have not used them before. Its just a place within my driving distance. The lower review rating is what concerns me.

I just posted my warmed engine compress test result in other thread and I'm leaning more towards head problem. But I will have to do a leak-down test to confirm. After I get all these data, I will then visit a local head shop and see what they say.

[InAccordance]

Cams are different. Carb is a bit more aggressive but just slightly. The difference isn't really worth swapping for.

[Jacques]

Cams are different. Carb is a bit more aggressive but just slightly. The difference isn't really worth swapping for.

I would not want a different cam. If I went with a rebuilt head, my concern is that I might end up with a different cam.

Another question. One shop guy told me he thinks that the A20 A3 head bolts are not reusable. Anyone know about that? I can't find anything that states that.

[InAccordance]

The difference is so minor you wouldn't even notice.

I've heard that too about the head bolts but then I've also reused them before without issue.
If you're worried about it and have 200 bucks to spend, get arp head studs.

[Jacques]

The difference is so minor you wouldn't even notice.

I've heard that too about the head bolts but then I've also reused them before without issue.
If you're worried about it and have 200 bucks to spend, get arp head studs.

Thanks man. I think I will just let the shop take my head to a head shop he trust. The dude is supposed to be a super duper mechanic. He does performance work.
He told me maybe can't get those head bolts anymore, if so he said folks are using ARP's for some Mazda engine if he can't find any.
I could not find anything about replacing head bolts in any manuals, but I have to trust he knows better than me.
Thanks again.

[InAccordance]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-218-4703?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-arp&gclid=CjwKCAjwmq3kBRB_EiwAJkNDp2nT084EQgy8yEDD6QvI qfGKLA3w3w_wph7JW8T9IL2dhK5x6ck07BoC_S4QAvD_BwE

It's these. Actually cheaper than I remember so... BONUS

Like I said though, I've reused the head bolts before and didn't have any issues from it so who knows... probably just one of those old wives tales.

[AC439]

I remember the head bolts have been discussed before and ours are non-stretch type so can be reused. I have done head gasket twice and have reused bolts and no problems.

[Jacques]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-218-4703?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-arp&gclid=CjwKCAjwmq3kBRB_EiwAJkNDp2nT084EQgy8yEDD6QvI qfGKLA3w3w_wph7JW8T9IL2dhK5x6ck07BoC_S4QAvD_BwE

It's these. Actually cheaper than I remember so... BONUS

Like I said though, I've reused the head bolts before and didn't have any issues from it so who knows... probably just one of those old wives tales.

Thanks again!


I remember the head bolts have been discussed before and ours are non-stretch type so can be reused. I have done head gasket twice and have reused bolts and no problems.

Much thanks! I'll discus that with the mechanic. The head has never been removed and it has 338,500 miles on it!

[Dr_Snooz]

He's thinking of the torque to yield head bolts, which came on engines later than ours. Your head bolts are safe to re-use unless obviously damaged in some way.

[Jacques]

He's thinking of the torque to yield head bolts, which came on engines later than ours. Your head bolts are safe to re-use unless obviously damaged in some way.

Thanks Snooz! I'll talk to the shop about that. I really appreciate the information. Here is my "old" beast!
9622

[InAccordance]

burgundy bros /highfive

[Dr_Snooz]

I remember you. Long time no see. Is that the torpedo tube I see on the front of your car? LOL

[Jacques]

I remember you. Long time no see. Is that the torpedo tube I see on the front of your car? LOL

Ah, you have a good eye! That feeds into the factory air box.
The car has never been in a garage all its life. Took a lot of years to develop that patina! Anymore I pretty much only use it for autocross fun a some short drives anymore.

Going off topic, here is some in car autocross footy from last year. https://youtu.be/P-1a8asSu5w

[Jacques]

burgundy bros /highfive

Ha ha, but nobody got the patina like mine! 9623

[InAccordance]

challenge accepted..

[Jacques]

challenge accepted..

Let us see it!
I hope I don't get busted for going off topic. This site has very good information.

Here is my old 'walk around' https://youtu.be/cvw_xwG189g
BTW, I went back to the factory air box so the intake tube has direct connection with no leaks. I tried that one you see. I no like!

[InAccordance]

I'll post em when I get home. Everytime I try to do it on the phone, pics end up sideways or gigantic.

[Jacques]

I'll post em when I get home. Everytime I try to do it on the phone, pics end up sideways or gigantic.

Can't wait! But I can. I don't even have a "smart" phone!

My car will go to a shop next week to get the cylinder head rebuilt. The work will all be done locally. My head back on my engine. I hope it goes well.
The shop has great reviews. They work on all the "race" cars the "kids" have. Plus they only charge an arm, not a leg too!

[InAccordance]

https://i.imgur.com/XA1giS1l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4cIugXal.jpg

[Jacques]

https://i.imgur.com/XA1giS1l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4cIugXal.jpg

Wow! I'm impressed! You hood alignment does not look to good though. ;) Your bumper covers look fit nice. Both mine are a bit askew due to minor impacts. Other than that my body is perfect.
Our cars would look awesome side by side! I think you are a step above me! :bow:
Edit: Oh wait! I win because you have four doors! ;):uh:

[InAccordance]

pfft, 4 door 3gs handle better!

She looks like hell but runs damn good which imo, is what matters =P

[Jacques]

pfft, 4 door 3gs handle better!

She looks like hell but runs damn good which imo, is what matters =P

Oh....maybe that's what's wrong with my autocross times! If she runs good, you have a sweet sleeper!
Have you ever had any cylinder head work done to the engine?

[InAccordance]

Not yet, it's on the list for later down the road

[Jacques]

Not yet, it's on the list for later down the road

I have 338,800 now. This will be the first time the Cylinder Head will be removed for rebuild. For many years now the car has sat all winter and it's very dry here.
I'll assume that not running it will dry the seals quicker. Maybe not the humidity as much as not running for months at a time.
How many miles on your engine? Have you ever done anything other than regular maintenance?

Shameful off topic video.
https://youtu.be/gHsNif2srMA

[InAccordance]

I'm at 286k, as far as I know it's never been taken apart. I have most records all the way back to 89 when the car was bought new and they dont say anything about rebuilding or anything. Just oil, belts, things like that.
Guy I bought it from said it had sat for about a year. It had carb problems and he never could get it running right so it ended up just sitting. Thing barely ran when I got it, wouldn't idle below 2k but once you put it in gear and tried moving, would barely go at all. Drove it 2 1/2 hours back home and it was all it could do to do 70mph on the interstate.
First thing was to rip out the old carb and put a weber 32/36 I had from the first 3g I had years ago. Then it was just a ton of repairs from old parts and leaky stuff.
Now it's been 5 speed swapped, suspension has been almost all replaced at this point and lowered, twin weber dcoe 45s, header to 2.5" pipe all the way back to a flowmaster, cat removed, and working on a megajolt ignition which should be up and running the next time I can get a day off.
Next plan is brake upgrades.
I would like to find a spare engine though to tear apart and try B-series rods and pistons in and do larger valves in the head.

[Jacques]

I'm at 286k, as far as I know it's never been taken apart. I have most records all the way back to 89 when the car was bought new and they dont say anything about rebuilding or anything. Just oil, belts, things like that.
Guy I bought it from said it had sat for about a year. It had carb problems and he never could get it running right so it ended up just sitting. Thing barely ran when I got it, wouldn't idle below 2k but once you put it in gear and tried moving, would barely go at all. Drove it 2 1/2 hours back home and it was all it could do to do 70mph on the interstate.
First thing was to rip out the old carb and put a weber 32/36 I had from the first 3g I had years ago. Then it was just a ton of repairs from old parts and leaky stuff.
Now it's been 5 speed swapped, suspension has been almost all replaced at this point and lowered, twin weber dcoe 45s, header to 2.5" pipe all the way back to a flowmaster, cat removed, and working on a megajolt ignition which should be up and running the next time I can get a day off.
Next plan is brake upgrades.
I would like to find a spare engine though to tear apart and try B-series rods and pistons in and do larger valves in the head.

Wow, you have done a lot to bring the old beast back to life! Good work.
My LXi Coupe is a manual. I bought it in Oct. '88 new. I have replaced a half a zillion parts to keep it going through the years. I also put lowering springs years ago, and a few years back did pretty much a total suspension rebuild too. Pulled several FI sensors from junk yards. I wish Honda still sold parts! Oh well.......I'll get back here once I have the Cylinder Head rebuilt and give a report. It runs okay now, but because of a broken exhaust stud on one end, I get a good leak. With the bad valve seals (maybe guides too) the fumes leak into the car with a window open and it's killin' me. It's been somewhat of a money pit over the later years, so now I figure whats a few more bills if I can get it running more like new again. Bla bla bla! I'll be back.

[InAccordance]

valve guides on mine are worn out as well, it'll poof oil smoke if you sit idling for more than a minute. Only time it does it.

Those damn exhaust studs are the worst. I had to change out a head on the 2g Prelude I had years ago because of them. Had two of them break off inside the head.

[Jacques]

valve guides on mine are worn out as well, it'll poof oil smoke if you sit idling for more than a minute. Only time it does it.

Those damn exhaust studs are the worst. I had to change out a head on the 2g Prelude I had years ago because of them. Had two of them break off inside the head.

There used to be a good video on dissolving the stud using alum and water with heat from a light bulb only. I can't find it for the life of me now.
Using a plastic bottle fixed to the head with silicone RTV type stuff. Cut off end of bottle, and fix the spout over the stud hole. Need to remove head and have the area upright. Then put the alum and water only solution in it and heat with a light bulb and sit overnight. Not so hot to melt the plastic, just to heat it up with the solution.
This dissolves the steel stud without any damage to the aluminum. The head could have been fixed that way.

Edit: From Wiki:
"Alum in the form of potassium aluminium sulphate or ammonium aluminium sulfate in a concentrated bath of hot water is regularly used by jewelers and machinists to dissolve hardened steel drill bits that have broken off in items made of aluminum, copper, brass, gold (any karat) and silver (both sterling and fine). This is because alum does not react chemically to any significant degree with any of these metals, but will corrode steel. When heat is applied to an alum mixture holding a piece of work that has a drill bit stuck in it, if the lost bit is small enough, it can sometimes be dissolved / removed within hours."

[Dr_Snooz]

I have the opposite problem. All the threads in my head were spongy and weak when I re-assembled the engine. I veeery gingerly tightened them as much as I dared. Of course they kept coming loose after that. So I kept tightening them until one pulled right out of the head and brought the soft aluminum threads along with it. Thankfully it doesn't leak, so "someday" I'll pull the manifold and Heli-Coil all of them and be done with that problem for good. Until then, I taunts me every time I open the head.

[InAccordance]

Had that happen on one of my studs, pulled the threads out. I flipped the stud, one end is longer than the other and was enough to bite the threads further into the head. Had to use a thinner washer but so far it hasn't leaked or backed out.

[Dr_Snooz]

Oh. Thank you! I think the stud is still rolling around on my floor somewhere after 5 years or so.

[Jacques]

Okay, the CYLINDER HEAD was removed. Report was all eight intake valves were not sealing and one exhaust valve was not sealing.
The shop sent me this gnarly photo of the 338,000 plus mile virgin engine with head removed.
9666

[AC439]

It does look like some coolant passages are clogged. On the side nearer to the oil filter, you can see few of the "bean shape" coolant passages on the head gasket seems clogged.

[Dr_Snooz]

You sure you want to put a new head on a block that old?

[InAccordance]

Snooz and his photobucket ad lolz

[Jacques]

It does look like some coolant passages are clogged. On the side nearer to the oil filter, you can see few of the "bean shape" coolant passages on the head gasket seems clogged.

Yes, looks rusty. You can see openings that are about the size of a pencil though. I have not seen it up close. The shop sent me the photo. Maybe that's the size of the openings in the jackets?

[Jacques]

You sure you want to put a new head on a block that old?

Well, I'm doing it now. Rather than using one of those rebuilt head places, I just let the shop take it to a local machine shop they use.

I won't be driving it a lot. Just some fun and Autocross. When it's done, we will see how long it last before it blows up.

[InAccordance]

There's a few that look straight up plugged.

[AC439]

Well, I'm doing it now. Rather than using one of those rebuilt head places, I just let the shop take it to a local machine shop they use.

I won't be driving it a lot. Just some fun and Autocross. When it's done, we will see how long it last before it blows up.

So the shop is taking the head for a rebuild ? I would be interested to know the result too. I'm debating if I should take mine for a rebuild or get a reman head. But I'm leaning towards rebuild.

[Jacques]

There's a few that look straight up plugged.

Yea, as good as I have been on maintenance, the coolant change got neglected a few times. Ouch! Still, it ran at normal temp.
The time it went above normal was when a fan went out. At any rate, it should be better when it's done. I'm sure they will flush out the block a bit and the cylinder head will be clean from the machine shop.
Also it would go up in temp on a hot day when I would tow about 1,700 lbs, up a good long grade going up about 1,500 feet.

[Jacques]

So the shop is taking the head for a rebuild ? I would be interested to know the result too. I'm debating if I should take mine for a rebuild or get a reman head. But I'm leaning towards rebuild.

Yea, I figured it would be best to have all the work done local. The cylinder head was in good shape for a valve job. Not like it was destroyed in some way.

I am hoping the job will be finished this week as I want to Autocross this weekend!

Edit: BTW if I did get an already rebuilt head, I would have saved the original head just in case. I could have gotten a no core return head for like $400.00 or a bit less. Don't remember the exact cost anymore.

[Oldblueaccord]

Yes, looks rusty. You can see openings that are about the size of a pencil though. I have not seen it up close. The shop sent me the photo. Maybe that's the size of the openings in the jackets?

its possible that the head gasket has smaller openings to restrict coolant flow. usually you will have build up there. it gives the coolant time to pick up heat.

[Jacques]

its possible that the head gasket has smaller openings to restrict coolant flow. usually you will have build up there. it gives the coolant time to pick up heat.

Thanks for that info. Like I said, I should have changed coolant more often. Hey, she got 338,000 plus miles on it!
I am the OG owner, so it's my fault! Bought it in Oct. 1988!

Shop says it should be done later this week. Right now the exhaust manifold is having studs replaced at the machine shop. The threads took a crap after some 27 years of never being removed.
I did remove it years ago to polish out the insides of it. I used the legs of a pair of Levi jeans connected to a drill along with water and sand. It worked pretty good! Took some time though. I did not want to go with a "header" because something about the cast iron holding more even heat between the aluminum head and cast iron block during cool down time. Speaking of that, it took me a long time to find another cooling fan timer when mine went bad. Found one at a junk yard, and so far, so good again.
Thing would come on at random times with a cold engine and run the battery dead!
Too bad Honda won't make parts for their old cars anymore! Glad I snagged several FI sensors from the yards in the past too! Both of my altitude sensors had gone bad. Honda told me no more were to be had. Could not find any on the after market either. Bla bla bla.
I'll be back. Low end should be better after fixing 8 leaking intake and one leaking exhaust valve.
Blow-by be dammed! I just need a few more years of fun with the old beast.

[Dr_Snooz]

Snooz and his photobucket ad lolz

:hmph:

[Jacques]

So I got the car back from the shop.
They did not shake it down after the work.
First thing, I got code for O2 sensors. The head work and gasket sealing etc. contaminated the sensors. It was not running right with that, although it did seem a bit stronger.
Then the next day I got a cooling fan issue. Been through that before. The larger fan is still OG. The smaller one (drivers side) has been replaced prior.
So I am waiting for sensors and just in case a fan switch (the one in the bottom of the radiator)
Also I will check the coolant bleed valve, even though I mentioned that to the boss, the guys may not have bled the air out.
They broke the top of the PCV chamber where the valve plugs in too! I got it connected now, but it needs a proper fix. The guy said he would fix it. Good guy.
I will be back after I get the new O2 sensors in. Still, gonna' have blow-by, but it should run stronger for my autocross than before with all intakes leaking and one exhaust too.

[InAccordance]

:hmph:

:stick:

[Dr_Snooz]

:stick:

It's just God telling me to update my sig pic. I'm going to start using Dropbox as my new host.

[Jacques]

It's just God telling me to update my sig pic. I'm going to start using Dropbox as my new host.

Off topic, but I want to thank you @Dr_Snooz. I finally got the full meal ticket on the 1989 Accord Manual from your box. Prior, I only had some incomplete manuals.

I am still waiting on some O2 sensors as I wanted OG connectors on them. As it goes, I only had one of the two O2 sensors contaminated as I only had one flash at the ECU.
Hey, now I know which is which for 1 or 2 flashes!
I am getting Denso sensors. Only 30 bucks each! OGs if one can find are like 240 bucks. It's been running fine with I believe Bosh sensors for many years now until the CYLINDER HEAD R&R.
Because the A/C was out anyway, I removed the pump. Less weight for my autocross.
I will run a jumper at the A/C pressure switch terminal just for good measure. This way if I hit the A/C switch it may still engage the fans fully.
It could be the condenser fan motor is failing. (larger right side fan) I replaced the cooling (smaller fan left side) a few years ago as the motor was toast.
I'll get back here as I attempt to iron it out. Thanks again!

[Jacques]

Awesome. I just jumped the A/C pressure connector and now when I hit the A/C switch both fans worked.
I will and check the connector at the sensor (bottom of the radiator) by jumping next. If the fan comes on I will replace the thermo switch.
If that ends up being a fail, it will more than likely be the condenser fan motor taking a crap.
I'll come back as I work more, but now it's kinda' raining. Oh, it stopped. Time to check the coolant bleed valve for air in the top.

[Jacques]

Althouht the engine was dead cold it got to 85 degrees so there was a tiny bit of pressure in the coolant system.
I opened the bleeder valve and got coolant under that bit of pressure.
The radiator was full to the brim, yet once the pressure was relieved, no coolant continued to flow out. (maybe front end too low)
I totally removed bleeder valve and the coolant was right there, so that should be a non issuue.
I never got a code for the TW sensor anyway, yet with running issues always good to check.
After I get the new O2 sensors installed, I'll test drive and come back.
Main lesson seems to be is, after a CYLINDER HEAD job, one might get a contaminated O2 sensor.
338,800 something miles now.

It ran okay before. https://youtu.be/gHsNif2srMA

[Jacques]

Althouht the engine was dead cold it got to 85 degrees so there was a tiny bit of pressure in the coolant system.
I opened the bleeder valve and got coolant under that bit of pressure.
The radiator was full to the brim, yet once the pressure was relieved, no coolant continued to flow out. (maybe front end too low)
I totally removed bleeder valve and the coolant was right there, so that should be a non issuue.
I never got a code for the TW sensor anyway, yet with running issues always good to check.
After I get the new O2 sensors installed, I'll test drive and come back.
Main lesson seems to be is, after a CYLINDER HEAD job, one might get a contaminated O2 sensor.
338,800 something miles now.

It ran okay before. https://youtu.be/gHsNif2srMA

So after replacing the O2 sensors I got code for one of the O2 sensors again. Turns out they bent the wire at the plug in for the sensor. It was hanging on with a thread.
I kinda' fixed it, then it was all good. It seems that the CYLINDER HEAD R & R did not cause an O2 sensor contamination after all.

The engine is running stronger than it was. Not like some huge boost, but much better. Blow-by? Still have a ton of it!
If I really felt like the car would be worth a total engine rebuild, I would have done that. I don't think it is. This Cylinder Head rebuild will give me a bit more fun for a few more years, and that's good enough for me. Total cost was $1198.00 My wife still wants to kill me though. "You and that stupid old car!"

Also replaced the thermo switch at the bottom of the radiator. The fans now run when they should.

So, in the end, I would say if the mileage of your engine is super high like mine (339,000 now) and all your valves were leaking, you can fix that and it will run better.

[AC439]

I have been waiting for your final report and glad to hear you have a good outcome. I am leaning towards getting my cylinder head rebuild by a reputable local shop. I will also take the head out and put it back myself due to the complexity of the process. I don't want to risk things not done right by other people.

However, I will wait till the weather cools down a bit. In FL, we have 9 months of summer and heat is unbearable even working inside the garage.

[Jacques]

I have been waiting for your final report and glad to hear you have a good outcome. I am leaning towards getting my cylinder head rebuild by a reputable local shop. I will also take the head out and put it back myself due to the complexity of the process. I don't want to risk things not done right by other people.

However, I will wait till the weather cools down a bit. In FL, we have 9 months of summer and heat is unbearable even working inside the garage.

Yea, that could be best as it is a complex job. Not many shops out there really know what they are doing. It's a tough job to do it with the engine in.
The guys broke the PCV grommet and they will fix it. Good luck!

[InAccordance]

Going to pull mine soon, valve guides are shot. Starts to burn oil on idle.