Question about testing a dual port vac advance

[lx 1986]

Question about testing a dual port vac advance. I don't have a handheld pump but I hear this can be done with a piece of hose while the advance is still on the dizzy and the car not running. I disconnected both hoses #2 and #25. I connected a hose to #25 and sucked on it and it held air. I did the same with #2. But #2 didn't hold air. I also tried plugging #25 when I sucked on the hose but #2 still didn't hold air I could also blow air into it.

Do I need a new vac advance? Or is this the way the dual port advances work. I would think both ports should hold vacuum.

86 accord lx, 2.0L 2bbl carb, auto, tec dizzy with external ignitor, CA emissions

Need to really know about this because I may go to j yard this week and might be able to get advance there.

Thanks

[Dr_Snooz]

Yeah, they should both hold vacuum. I got mine from the junkyard. To test it, I just pushed in the rod and held my thumb over the ports. I bought the one that stayed plunged.

[lx 1986]

Thanks for the answer Dr Snooze. Thats's what I thought. I did go to the j yard yesterday and found a vac advance. I think it might have a slow leak but it does hold some air. I've been having problems with finding a dizzy.

I bought a reman Cardone 31-841 from Carid and ran into nothing but problems with them just to get a refund. It took a month to get it. Never order from them again.

Looks like Cardone has changed the way they put the advance on. If your standing in front of the car the connectors are facing towards the left not up towards the hood like they should so you have to make the tubing longer. My car ran like crap and we couldn't get it to idle smoothly. Wondering if that's the right advance in the 1st place. In the meantime I bought a Cardone from Rock and a parts house in town and the advance was just like the one from Carid. I sent back the one from Rock for 2 reasons the way the advance was facing and there was damage to shaft. Part house I just wanted to see if there was a mistake with the advance.

I found out what the problem was with the new one I bought from Rock, that World Power one. 2 problems both with the advance. The inner pot doesn't hold vacuum and the advance isn't flush with the housing there's a gap between the advance and the housing. Otherwise the dizzy is good. I bet this is the problem with the bouncy idle when ac is on. Rock doesn't want to send me an exchange they want to give me a refund.

Snooze do you know what kind of glue I could use to seal my old broken advance with? The crack is along the seam. Right now I'm running my old Cardone dizzy with donor advance. Now my hot start problem is back. Probably the idle again. But no problem with the ac at idle. My old advance holds vac alot better than the donors. I might hit another yard tomorrow. My other options are to return WP back to Rock and buy another one from parts house in town if they still carry it or trying to find another donor at the yard which is getting hard to find a carb model.

[InAccordance]

When I get my ignition running, I'll have a carb distributor I wont need. Vac can works just fine.
I'll let you know in a few days.
Mine is a two port black plastic one.

[Dr_Snooz]

Snooze do you know what kind of glue I could use to seal my old broken advance with?

That will be tough, but I'd try building up over it with epoxy.

[lx 1986]

InAccordance Let me know when your done. I'd be interested in the vac advance if your going to toss the dizzy.

Thanks Dr Snooze for answering my question again.

I went to another j yard again the other day and only found one car. Advance didn't hold at all. Donor one has a definite leak in it. I could hear my motor starting to knock again when driving uphill and it was getting hot. Not good on a summer day.

[AWH]

You know you can still buy those vacuum advance pots new on E-Bay [emoji780] I bought one last year. Worked fine. Just make sure you choose the correct one.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn H8314 met Tapatalk

[Dr_Snooz]

Far out! Just search for "89 accord vacuum advance" or something similar. Kinda pricey at $80, considering you can buy a whole new distributor with a metal advance for $145.

[lx 1986]

Got all my credit back from the nightmare I've been having with this distributor problem. I reorder the world power dst841 again from rock auto since I couldn't find it at the local parts store. I had no choice but to do that because rock wouldn't give me an exchange. They said I was having to many problems with it so they felt more comfortable giving me a refund. I wouldn't have any problems if they sent me one where the advance worked. Otherwise it would have worked beautifully. I'm done with Cardone the quality of their work sucks. I don't think they have the right advance for the tec carb. It's facing the wrong way and you won't be able to get the idle right. The only advance that faced that way was for a fuel injected model. I didn't order the spectra model because the pics show no external igniter for CA emissions and doesn't mention it having one in the description.

AWH I tried finding one on ebay and I thought I did looked just like mine. Found out it was the wrong one. That's why I think Cardone doesn't have the right one on their dizzy. I don't know why they would change how it fits on the dizzy unless it's the wrong housing maybe. All I know we tried everything to get it to run smooth but it never did.

Dr Snooz your right. I took my old Cardone with the donor advance off and put the world power one back on. The 2nd new world power dizzy will be deliverd by next Monday. I hope this one has an advance that works. I'll post back after I install it. I'm keeping my finger crossed.

Thank guy for the response

[lx 1986]

Update I did get the other dizzy and installed it but the new one does the same thing with the ac pulsating in drive as the other one but not as bad. The new dizzy holds vac and has a oring between the housing and the vac advance where the other one didn't hold vac where hose #2 goes and no oring just a open gap between vac and housing.

What I noticed with this World power brand is the top of the shaft where the rotor goes isn't packed with grease it has 2 pieces of felt or gauze like material stuffed in the hole I almost tossed it. I've never seen this before. From what I've read you put some oil on it and this is supposed to lube the shaft I guess. Does anyone know about this? Would I be better off filling it with grease instead?

I pulled the AC switch yesterday after I turned on AC and it started to pull the rpms down and doing more than just pulsating it got erratic. It was corroded of course. Cleaned it up will see if this is the problem with the ac. I only have 2 speeds thought maybe the cleaning would give me 4 speeds back again. I haven't tried the ac on the road yet. I got another ac switch from the yard last time I went. Will see if that one has 4 speeds if not Iv'e been living with 2 speeds for years. Better than nothing.

I'm only going to try a couple more things and then I'm done messing with this thing. I guess I will have to live with the ac pulsating in drive if they don't work.

I was thinking I should try Dr Snooze 's lazy man's dizzy overhaul. Maybe all it needs is some lube.

[Dr_Snooz]

Two speeds is usually the fan resistor.

The felt is a pretty typical way of lubing a bushing. It's been a long time since I had one open, but I don't remember anything like that in my dizzie.

[lx 1986]

Thanks again Dr Snooze. I'm with you. I've never seen felt in any of mines either, always grease. I guess I'll be going to get some grease.

I'll be looking for some info on the resistor on it's location for the ac. Don't know where that's at. Thought it might be the switch because I always heard they go out often. I did get to use ac today and it works really well but didn't stop the idle problem. I thought this might be the problem also but no luck there either. I wonder if the resistor is the problem with idle? Luckily I got j yard switch for 3.00 got it on a 40% off 4th of July sale.

[Dr_Snooz]

You can download the manual from my signature and the electrical chapter will show you where the resistor is and how to diagnose it.

[lx 1986]

Dr Snooze I do have the manual downloaded if your talking about the Paul design one. I think that's what it's called. Anyway I did find where it's located. It's in a easy place to get to. So no problem there. The research I did sounds like your right about the resistor. Of course I have to order it again. Oreilly's has import direct brand for 29.00 or if they don't have it autozone has 4 seasons brand for 39.00 but will have to order that also. I'd rather order from retail store than online. I've never changed the resistor so it's about 23 -30 yrs old. I've been using 2spds for over 10 yrs now.

[Dr_Snooz]

The Pauldesign one is for Russian cars. Get the 89 USDM manual.

[lx 1986]

Dr Snooze I just wanted to let you know you were right on the money with the resistor. I got my 4 speeds back! Thanks for the help with that. Had a problem with the part I ordered from Oreillys and had to order twice. The 1st one looked like it was used. 2nd one was new. I checked the site glass for the ac and looks like I need to add some refrigerant. I was thinking if the low refrigerant is what's making the idle pulsate.. I vaguely remember my compressor trying to cycle off and on several years ago. I'll post again to says if that's the problem

You do mean 1986-1989 Honda Accord general shop manual right? I have an 86 LX not an 89

[Dr_Snooz]

No. Use the '89. You'll notice some differences, but no one has yet volunteered an '86 manual for me to scan, so you'll have to make do. Use the Russian manual to fill in gaps where the '89 fails you. The Russian manual is useless when it comes to carburetion and smog controls. That's a big deal when you're trying to pass California smog.

[lx 1986]

Dr Snooze I briefly looked at the 89 manual. I didn't know that one existed. I'll take a better look when the weather cools down. The hot weather has been wreaking havoc on my internet.

I replaced the felt with some grease in the dizzy shaft and I also replenished R134 in my ac. Seems the ac was leaking slowly from the low side valve. I thought maybe this might fix the idle problem but it didn't.

I noticed when I step on the brake at a red light. that's when the idle pulsates with the ac on and it seems like the added pressure of stepping on the brake brings the rpms down alittle and that's what causes the idle problem. I tried adjusting the throttle stop screw but that didn't help. So I decided to adjust the dashpot screw. My understanding of that is it regulates the vacuum. It seems like to much vacuum is dragging down the rpms. I could be wrong. I have to drive the car some to find out if the adjustment helped. Will post update again.

[lx 1986]

I found the problem with the WAI dizzy I took the igniter off the dizzy I got from the j yard and put it on the WAI. I thought I would test out the one I got from the j yard dizzy I bought awhile ago for the vac advance. I know the WAI has a new pickup coil so I figured it would tell me if the NEC igniter was good and if that was the problem with the bouncy idle with the ac on in drive. Since there's only 2 electrical components and one is known to be good that would tell me if NEC is good and I would already have replaced the problem component.

Result, no more bounce when the ac is on in drive. Donor igniter is NEC MC 5357 same as the one in my old Cardone. The one in the WAI has no number or name. It's lighter in weight than the NEC. The NEC seems to be more heavy duty. I read that these new after market dizzy use cheap igniters that can't handle the demands of heavy usage like the Nec. I adjusted the ac with no problem just like I used to.

I also put the j yard igniter on my old Cardone and it began to knock going uphill and had a rough idle. Found out my old Cardone needs a new pickup coil.

Dr Snooze I did fix my old vac advance with some JB weld but I really didn't get to use my dizzy very long so I can't verify whether or not the weld will hold. But I can tell you that it does hold vac.
-------------------------------------------------------------
THIS IS WHERE I'M AT TODAY OCT 2019
I bought Cardone from Rock then they tell me I can't substitute brands. So I asked for a exchange for the WAI. They wanted to give me a refund. I sent Cardone back because the rotor wouldn't fit unless it was hammered on.

I bought Cardone from another place. Cardone advance was configured differently than mines. No one could explain this. It was installed and it couldn't be timed right. I sought refund. That took a month and half. Never buy from them again!

Bought another Cardone from Rock and there was damage to the shaft and advance was configured wrong. Got refund

Ordered Cardone from parts house in town. Advance was configured differently. Didn't buy.

I don't know why Cardone changed the configuration on the advance. The 1st Cardone I bought from Rock was like the pic they show other than the rotor not fitting it look perfect. The 2nd Cardone I bought from them was not like the pic.

My Cardone is like the pic on Rocks site I bought it 5yrs ago at Pepboys. It took a whole hour to install it. Worked perfectly didn't have a problem until this year.

I ended up buying another WAi that had the same problem as the 1st one I bought from Rock. What a headache this turned out to be all because of a substandard product.

[Dr_Snooz]

It's fate saying it's time for coil packs. LOL

[Dr_Snooz]

Dr Snooze I did fix my old vac advance with some JB weld but I really didn't get to use my dizzy very long so I can't verify whether or not the weld will hold. But I can tell you that it does hold vac.

I sort of drove over the plastic grille on my 1-ton truck. Not completely over it, but enough that it made a real mess; cracks and pieces everywhere. I despaired because I was so stinking broke at the time I knew I'd never be able to afford another grille and would have to drive my hoopty truck around with this giant token of my stupidity forevermore. I had nothing to lose, so I busted out the epoxy and started piecing the thing back together. That was probably 5 years ago and it's still holding today. It worked so well that last year I epoxied my Accord's tailgate trim together with it. That piece on the coupes likes to crack up and fall apart. The epoxy has definitely stiffened it up and is holding well. I just make sure to keep it out of the sunlight because I think UV light degrades it.

[lx 1986]

Thanks Dr Snooze for all the help. My take away from this headache was I'll have a spare vac advance which I know works and will last awhile by what your saying about your grille.

So now I have some spare parts if something goes wrong. I don't know how long this new dizzy is going to last I never had this brand before. I took mines apart and it was pretty clean inside even with the seal leaking. I replaced the seal put it back together and mechanically it as smooth as silk.

Monies tight can't afford another car right now so trying to make do with what I got. I got the car when it was 10 yrs old and it's never left me stranded in the 23yrs. I've taken care of it and it's taken care of me.

Oh I wanted to let you know I took the car for a test drive yesterday. Turned the ac on and it was like a freezer in there and I was able to turn it down to low setting. Thanks again for the resistor fix.

[Dr_Snooz]

Happy to help. Take good care of your car.

[lx 1986]

Thought I had fixed the problem with the bouncing idle. I put the donor igniter in and for awhile it worked but unfortunately it started to fail like mines (hard starting when the car was warmed up.) I ended up putting the igniter that came with the WAI dizzy back in. Hard start went away but ac problem was back. I also noticed when I turned the key on the tac would jump a little or it would make a noise like there was a short somewhere. I ended up buying another igniter. Before I put the new one in I tested the WAi one to see what the resistance was as per Honda manual (50,000 at ohms at 20c 70f for igniter input resistance.) It said to hook multimeter positive to post D & negative to igniter ground which is the unit itself & check resistance. My multimeter on 200K measured 23,000. Since manual doesn't give info on what they mean min or max of or if there should be any resistance. I was left guessing what the 23,000 meant. Then I did the test on the new one a WVE/Airtex/Wells and the reading was 0 with meter set to 200k. All I can figure is when the new one was installed no problems with starting, ac idle is solid & the problem with tac is gone. I'm assuming 0 is the magic number. The resistance of 23,000 on the WAI igniter must be a short in one of the circuits. The 23,000 on the WAI is a steady reading. I bought 2 WAI dizzys & both had the same problem. The donor & my igniter are the NEC brand. The reading on both of them are identical. The specs jump up and down between 13,000 - 19, 000 the specs readings are not steady. Both have the same problem, hard starting when car is warm.

The new igniter is a WVE/Airtex/Wells made in Japan has 3 yr warranty. It doesn't come with the little black guard so you have to use your old one but it comes with heatsink paste.

I just wanted to put this out there so made be it could help someone else.

[Oldblueaccord]

Thought I had fixed the problem with the bouncing idle. I put the donor igniter in and for awhile it worked but unfortunately it started to fail like mines (hard starting when the car was warmed up.) I ended up putting the igniter that came with the WAI dizzy back in. Hard start went away but ac problem was back. I also noticed when I turned the key on the tac would jump a little or it would make a noise like there was a short somewhere. I ended up buying another igniter. Before I put the new one in I tested the WAi one to see what the resistance was as per Honda manual (50,000 at ohms at 20c 70f for igniter input resistance.) It said to hook multimeter positive to post D & negative to igniter ground which is the unit itself & check resistance. My multimeter on 200K measured 23,000. Since manual doesn't give info on what they mean min or max of or if there should be any resistance. I was left guessing what the 23,000 meant. Then I did the test on the new one a WVE/Airtex/Wells and the reading was 0 with meter set to 200k. All I can figure is when the new one was installed no problems with starting, ac idle is solid & the problem with tac is gone. I'm assuming 0 is the magic number. The resistance of 23,000 on the WAI igniter must be a short in one of the circuits. The 23,000 on the WAI is a steady reading. I bought 2 WAI dizzys & both had the same problem. The donor & my igniter are the NEC brand. The reading on both of them are identical. The specs jump up and down between 13,000 - 19, 000 the specs readings are not steady. Both have the same problem, hard starting when car is warm.

The new igniter is a WVE/Airtex/Wells made in Japan has 3 yr warranty. It doesn't come with the little black guard so you have to use your old one but it comes with heatsink paste.

I just wanted to put this out there so made be it could help someone else.

Real quick you made a good point that the igniter sinks to ground so the ground screw needs to be clean and make a good ground.

You followed the book procedures to test?

I got a spare new to test and readings off my car written some place I can find.

Also if your using an aftermarket coil of even the "new" stock coils the resistance may be off. The standard auto brand coil new is not correct.

[lx 1986]

Sorry I didn't reply until now been having a problem with the internet.

Oldblueaccord the test is from the manual that DrSnooze has a download for (89 accord service manual page 24-9). I have a tec dizzy with external igniter. To test it the igniter has to be removed from the housing to do this. My igniter has 4 prongs on the back of it. I have a 86 accord lx, 2bbl carb, auto. The test is simple enough. Check A and B post for continuity and then B and A post for continuity. Continuity should be only one way. Last part of test hook positive probe to D post and negative probe to igniter ground (the igniter itself). The igniter posts are at the bottom of the igniter in the pic on pg 24-9.

The ground wire from the pickup coil I thought might be the problem too. It looked like it wasn't making contact with the housing real well. They made a strap to hold the wires from the pickup coil and the hole for the screw was barely making contact with the housing because they made the strap to long so the end of the strap wasn't flush with the housing. Before I bought the new igniter. I changed the strap they had on the dizzy to the oem part I took off my cardone. But it made no difference. The problem was the igniter. Once I put the new one on all problems went away