PDA

View Full Version : damn AC !



ACCORD EX
03-05-2003, 10:49 AM
well today it was getting hot , so i turn the A/C on ( since 2 months , but it's not cold !! the rpm rises as i switch it on but i looked at the compressor's clutch and it doesn't engage ! ?
i tried WD40 on it , turning it by hand it turns fine ! but doesn't engage! ! any ideas ! i am really sad about it ! :(

MIKE

ACCORD EX
03-05-2003, 10:56 AM
i forgot to mention that both fans come one when i turn the A/C on and the rpm rises !

MIKE

Janiel
03-05-2003, 11:28 AM
Try the fuse under the dash i thihk its listed as the defroster. Or it might be low on freon.Also check the red wire that feeds 12v to the compresor.

AccordEpicenter
03-05-2003, 12:22 PM
id test the ac clutch coil first, then look to see if it actually recieves the clutch voltage from the ecu

ACCORD EX
03-05-2003, 01:59 PM
well if it's low on fereon wouldn't the clutch still engage !?

man it's really a messy bussiness ! but i really need the A/C !
anyway any ideas are welcomed !

thanx guys !

MIKE

Jareds 89 LX-i
03-05-2003, 08:55 PM
If the fans are coming on, then it has at least some pressure (may not be enough though, but still there's pressure). There's a low pressure switch in the metal line right next to the reciever/dryer that won't allow anything to turn on unless theres pressure. If the clutch isn't engauging though, that's either a clutch problem or electrical problem. When I got my a/c fixed last week, they ran into a problem with the compressor getting no power. Fans and everything would turn on, but the clutch wouldn't engauge. I'm not sure exactly where they found the problem, but it was a short somewhere in the wiring (may have been the compressor clutch relay...they weren't real specific).

I know that probably doesn't help much, but if you're good with electrical stuff then get out your testlight and have at it! haha A voltmeter should tell you if the compressor is even getting any power at all. If it is, then it's probably the clutch coil that's faulty

ACCORD EX
03-06-2003, 03:50 AM
well thanx Jared ! i have also looked at the service manual and mad my self a nice flow chart to know what to test first !
once i fix the problem ( if i ever will ) i 'll do a how to on that !

thanx again guys ! and more help is welcomed !


MIKE

ACCORD EX
03-08-2003, 10:09 AM
well today i am really messed up ! i 've tested the 2 compressor wires ( ground and the positive connector ) with a multimeter and NO CONTINUOTY !! nothing ! :(
well what does that mean ! bad coil !??
i cleaned all teh connections ! and still nothing !

so i think i 'll have to get the compresor out !

my questions are ?

do i have to remove the PS pump out to get the A/C from above or can i get it from under ! ??? and do i have to drain the PS system from fluid or i can just plug the hoses ! ?


when unbolting the A/C lines going to the Compressor will R12 refregirant get out the lines ! and if so what should i do ?

any other help is more than welcome ! ?? :(

MIKE

ACCORD EX
03-09-2003, 11:49 AM
anybody ! ??? pleeeeeease ! ?

MIKE

88accordlxcarb
03-09-2003, 05:05 PM
On my 88LX when my dad and me replaced the AC we did not have to un-hook the power steering lines. We did have to move the PS canister while we where installing a new drier. I am not real sure on that, as my father did most of the work.

You will need to depressurize the system before you try to take components out (if you do). In America is it against the law to do so. You must take it to an AC specialist and get them to take the coolant out for you. In my case the car had a leak and there was not any in it in the first place.

When you depressurize the system, you have let moisture into the system. That is VERY bad. After the system is opened you will need to pull it under a vacuum (using a AC vacuum pump), and then fill the vacuum with R-12 or another coolant until it is 0(psi). We used a little propane, then filled it with R-134(ES). We also changed the compressor, the dryer. We had to flush the system and all that.

It was hard work, especially for someone who has not done it before. Luckily my father had. You will need the gauges, the coolant, flush, vacuum pump, gaskets, OIL, new dryer, compressor, etc.

I would try to find out what is wrong with OUT trying to do an AC job. Sorry I cant be of help to you with that.

ACCORD EX
03-10-2003, 08:03 AM
so i can't just unhook the AC lines to get the compressor out ! ??( forget about the laws here )


and will the ps fluid spill when i take the lines to get the PS pump out ! ?

MIKE

88accordlxcarb
03-10-2003, 02:42 PM
If you unhook the lines you will let ALL of the coolant out. This is very dangerous. If it is fully charged the coolant is harmful to you, and can catch on fire. You will also let all of the oil out as well. After this you can take the compressor off, but the odds are you will need a new one.

BUT Then when you hook it back up, it is not a plug and go thing. You have let moisture into the AC lines and system. That is very bad, and will cause the coolant to not evaporate, and condensate in the compressor, not to mention what the water does to the compressor.

You will need flush the system (using an AC flush), and then put it back together (with the new compressor, and dryer). Then you will need to hook up all the lines and seals and such. Then you will need to hook the vacuum pump to the low-end side(I think) of the line. Set it to suck and you will create a vacuum. This will get all the moisture out. You will need gauges to monitor whether it hold vacuum or not. Then you must put coolant into the system using the gauges, until it is up to the correct level (I forget what it is), usually a couple cans or whatever. You will also need to add the oil.

If you continue using R-12 you can add it while it is still under vacuum. If you are converting to 134 you cannot add it under a vacuum. We used propane (also used for a coolant) until it was at 0psi. Then we filled it with liquid 134.

So you answer your question, if you open up the system (AKA unhook the lines, take out the compressor whatever) all the stuff will come out, and you will HAVE TO (no other way) do what I described above.

This also involves taking out the evaporator underneath the dash out and flushing it before adding the new system.

I don’t remember my dad having to plug the PS fluid lines, nor do I remember it having to come out. I don’t think anything had to be done to the PS system, except remove the liquid canister, which is over the dryer. But I am not sure, I will find out for you.

Sound complex? Yeah I think I lost myself in there too.

If you aren’t ready for a job that will take around 3-4 good days to complete, or have the correct equipment, I would take it to an AC place and get them to check it out and see what is the matter.

The PS belt did have to come out. Check out this How To

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1515

Oh the clutch wont engage if there is no collant in the system. You might just be out?

88LXi/87CRXSi
03-10-2003, 04:32 PM
The coil should have around 3-4 ohms resistance, it's bad if you've got no continuity. Are you going to just replace the coil or the whole compressor?:confused: If ur just gonna try and "match up" a coil at the dealership, I would try to turn the compressor upwards, after moving the power steering pump and removing the fan & shroud, and replace the coil with the lines connected. If u HAVE to disconnect the ref. lines, like 88accordlxcarb said, be very careful!! release it very slowly! And don't let any liquid refrigerant get on your skin or eyes, it evaporates at either -22° F or -42° F (I forget which)... instant FROSTBITE!
I'm sure you've checked the manual, so changing the coil might be possible without having to evacuate and re-charge the system. Well.... it's only a suggestion! :( Anyways good luck with it.

-Steve

ACCORD EX
03-11-2003, 02:02 AM
oh god ! :crying: !!

thanx guys for all the inputs ! i think i'll try to get another used compressor ( if i can find one )
so my last question ( i know i bored you all with these questions but i reall need AC !:( )

1. i 'll disconnect the lines at the compressor
2. let the R12 get out slowly
3.plug the lines .
4. put the new compressor IN .
5. FLUSH the system using AC vacuum pump ( an AC shop can do that right ?
6. recharge the system ( AC SHOP )
7. enjoy my self !

did i get anything wrong ??

thanx a lot for the help guys ! i really appreciate it ! you guys rock ! :)

MIKE

88accordlxcarb
03-11-2003, 02:13 PM
Actually what i would do first is…

See that little valve on the hose near the radiator? It looks like a valve with a cap on it. I would take something and press it (OUTSIDE) and let the coolant out. It will come out with A LOT of force; just unhooking a line would cause it to BOOM lots of coolant all over everywhere. After most of the coolant has come out, carefully take one of the hoses off, and watch out.

Then once all the coolant is out, take the compressor out, remember to mark lines, and cover them with something (we used a plastic bag).

You need to flush the system BEFORE putting the new compressor on. You will need to call the AC shop before and tell them about your plan and make sure everything is ok. Tell them to flush the lines, and the evaporator. BUT when they flush the evaporator tell them to make sure they take out the expansion valve before flushing. Then put it back on.

Then after it has been flushed, close up all lines (they might do it for you), take the car home. If you want to put the new compressor on, then go ahead, and do it. Or get them to do it.

Then take it back, tell them to pull it under a vacuum, check and see if it holds. Then tell them to add oil, and coolant (recharging). Then make sure they test it and you should be good to go.

BUT call them and MAKE SURE. Get every little detail worked out, and double check what i have said with what they recommend.

Dont let them charge you an arm and a leg. Over here the R-12 costs a LOT, but it might not over there.

Oh make sure it is a rebuilt compressor, not just one off a junkyard car. They can cost $$$$$$

Also let the AC shop look and make sure you need to do all this in the first place(it might just be something stupid, and they can fix it quickly)

Good luck!

Jareds 89 LX-i
03-11-2003, 05:07 PM
You may just want to replace the expansion valve while it's out. It's a $20 part here...not sure what it would be where you are at. But when I had mine charged, it worked for about a day before the valve plugged up, and I had to discharge and recharge it again after replacing the valve. That's a pretty common thing to plug up from what I hear.

Also be sure and use a brand new reciever/dryer, not used. They absorb moisture, so once they've been exposed to the atmosphere for any length of time renders it useless. Good idea to replace it anyways.... about $45 here. And after flushing, don't forget to add the proper amount of PAG oil (2.70 ounces if I remember right, plus 1 ounce in the new compressor suction hole when you install it).... very important to keep the compressor lubricated. New o-rings are a good idea too, especially if there were any leaks to begin with, and even more so with R134a and PAG oil. Only about $1.50 for an assortment pack of o-rings at autozone, and you'd probably need 2 packages.

Sounds like alot of work and $$$, but it's well worth it to keep your a/c working properly for a long time to come, instead of having to fix/recharge every 6 months or so.

Be sure and get the Nippondenso compressor, not Keihin. Only the Nippondenso ones are compatable with R134a, plus you probably couldn't find a Keihin that still worked anyways even if it were compatable, LOL. I can post pics if you need to know what each one looks like. And be VERY VERY careful when releasing the R-12 from the system. This stuff is EXTREMELY cold, and as was said above, if it comes in contact with any part of your body it will instantly freeze it, including your eyes. Use a recharge hose or something and put a valve on the end so you can put it on there, open it just a little bit so it leaks out slow, and then you can step away while it leaks out slowly until it's all empty. Double check after it's all out to make sure it's completely empty before disconnecting any hoses.

Hope that helps some as well ;)

ACCORD EX
03-12-2003, 02:12 PM
man ! i am really lost ! ! i will see what the shop can do for me !

what about this oil thing ?
do i pour it inside the comperessor it self ! ?
what is it called ?
do kehin and denso both fit ??? i have a denso !


you guys rock ! !


MIKE

88accordlxcarb
03-13-2003, 02:52 PM
You have denso, you replace with denso, period.

The oil, well like all oil lubricates the internal parts of the compressor.

To tell you the truth i was not there when my dad added the oil, so i am not sure how. BUT I think it went in the compressor.

Yeah ask the shop, they should be able to help you a lot.

ACCORD EX
03-14-2003, 02:34 AM
thanx a lot Jason ! i'll try to do it once i finish my midterm exams !
:)

MIKE

88accordlxcarb
03-14-2003, 03:08 PM
No Prob, glad i could help!

njpeter
03-16-2003, 09:53 AM
1-a/c is not a place for learn as you go.
2-your neighbors or local police will rat you out to the epa if they notice large hissing noises coming from your car. If your system has gas in it, best shot is to go for a refill..it's likly low. Granted r-12 refills are not cheap, neither is nursing an injury from am a/c accident.
3-so far all of my 3g's developed leaks, fully discharging the systems, I've used leak stop and legacy purchased r-12 ( you need an epa certificate to buy r-12 now) to keep one of my accords on r-12, all the others were converted to r134.


R12 dyers are NOT compatible with r134 ( that's why these k-mart "conversion kits" will fail..they can get the a/c running in a pinch ( like during a heatwave) but the dryer will be toast, you need a new dryer $50. Dryers do not last forever, consider it the worlds most expensive oil filter. Not very ahrd to change, if you can deal with oily gravity fit o-rings in tight places when you have a tight time limit to finish the job ( the dryer starts drying the moment the end caps come off, and they can't take a lot of mositure to start with.a

NEVER use propane in an auto a/c system. Boom...nuff said?

Don't just dump some 134 in there. Do it once, do it right

don't vent freon, the fine is $25,000..consider it like pouring oil down the corner sewer, or dumping a gas tank back by the rockpile. no longer acceptable..sorry if you misse the days of $1 can r12 when nobody knew how to fix a leak.

if you are going to play, learn the rules.

rule #1
wear your googy-goglles
rule #2 no smoking
(r-12 is turned into a major lunb irriatant ( that's posion gas) when burned, even by a cigarette..one lungful can kill ya.
rule #3 protect yourself
Find somebody that knows what they are doing if you don't
rule #4, only fill r12 systems to 70/80% of r12 capacity, change oil to r134 compliant type, change dryer, expect lower performance ( in some cases my accord is so cold I have to turn the a/c down. My van, which has a special 134 expansion valve..freezes us out badly..it's TOO cold. r134 guages are not the same as r12 guages.

venting r134 is also prohibited. You're really out of luck if you live in wisconson. All home brew a/c work is forbidden there, try to buy some r134 from jc whitney..


sorry for the length of the a/c folklores...spring is around the corner ( or so they say in the east) and some of this informtion my keep somebody from having a bad time. My a/c is ready for spring, I always run it for a minute of two after I fill the tank..keeps the oil in the right places.

88accordlxcarb
03-16-2003, 11:46 AM
Remember he lives in Egypt, so most if not all of the laws you stated don’t even exist over there! ;)

I also disagree with the propane issue. Propane is a hydrocarbon that can be compressed and used in an automotive AC. It also is Flammable. We were also skeptical about using the VERY small amount of propane needed to fill the system to zero vacuum that is until we researched. According the 1991 study done by Dieckmann and Bentley for the United States Department of Energy, the effects of a flammable refrigerant in an automotive air conditioning system are not one’s to worry about.

In their testing, the conclusion was the use of Propane or other flammable refrigerant (like R290) in cars is ok. The effects of using a 100% propane system, they did not test. BUT using small amounts of propane to fill system will cause no harm.

The only time that it might be a concern is if you got into a severe crash where it punctured one of the AC lines. With a 100% propane system, this might be a cause for worry. But according to the study, the fire should be contained in the engine bay, not in the passenger compartment, if there was one. "The preliminary conclusion of the study was that fire risks could prove to be acceptably low."(Dieckmann and Bentley, 5.5.1)

So what does all that mean? What I described above, using a little propane because you cannot put the specific coolant in under vacuum is ok.

I did make a mistake above. We did not charge our 3gee with R134 we used ES12a. AND that is a hydrocarbon. Did I mention I might major in chemistry? :lol Using propane to add the coolant under zero vacuum is widely used, although some prefer to install it under hard vacuum.

Just thought I would clear some myths. :)

ACCORD EX
03-17-2003, 02:17 AM
well first
! i live in egypt now ! no laws, no fines ! nothing !
i can disharge it easiely in my garage outa of town !
R12 is much cheaper than R134a here, you belive it ! it's like if we say an example in $$$ 60 $ for R12 and 200 $ for R134a ! :D

MIKE

njpeter
03-17-2003, 05:34 AM
in your case just dump some 12 in there and forget everything else I said. Who cares if it leaks?..stick some oil charge in there as well, one can a season, depending on how much oil is getting past the main seals of the compressor( if the compressor is heavily caked..toss some leak detect in there..it's bascially colored compressor oil)

I'll politely dispute the propane issues, Did I mention I worked in the automotive business for 15 years?.

Some shops will test the refrigerant in your system before removal for a repair job ( this is for the " i'm taking it to the garage" types) if the refrig is mixed, they will either not take the job, or charge you a really high fee for "hazardous disposal", most won't as the equipment needs cleaning after working on a witches brew system. This goes for the barely legal mixed r-12 replacements. In other words, use care when letting shade tree types do a/c work. During the last big heat wave in the ny area, guys were doing a/c tuneups on the street. Too bad I coudn't tell what they were charging with, the containers were a weird color.

Franky speaking, the reasons for the restictions on venting are well know, but some countries don't buy into the treaty ( I forget the name), so they don't restict hydrocarbon use. I don't believe the skin cancer scare tactic, but I do understand the nature of hyrdocarbons in the upper atmosphere.

R12 production ( legal) has basically stopped, so supplied will eventually dwindle ( you can only recycle that stuff a number of times) but if there were no restictions, I'd be using r12 and venting away happly like we did in the 80's.

I'd hate to be dealing with the sand issues in your part of the world however..that's rough on glass and paint.

ACCORD EX
03-17-2003, 08:45 AM
well i know that 134 is better for the environment ! but i won't convert to it ! a lot of $$$ !

but anyway thanx for all the info you supplied ! it was really useful ! :)

MIKE

88accordlxcarb
03-17-2003, 02:22 PM
I will "politely dispute" also. :lol

But have government documented proof...

Whatever... No sense getting into a fight. Peace. :super:

ACCORD EX
03-18-2003, 12:39 AM
:D !

no fight at all ! we all lern from each other ! that's teh point from coming here ! :)

MIKE