Float level adjustment

[lx 1986]

If I adjust the float up slightly will I have to make any other types of adjustments, ie timing, idle etc. Will this effect air fuel mixture?

The problem I'm having is when I come to a stop and step on the brake the car wants to die and I have to keep my foot on the gas so the car won't stall while I step on brake. When I'm driving it seems to have lots of power and no problem as long as I don't step on the brakes.

I just got carb installed at a shop. I checked to see if hoses were hooked up right and found 2 unhooked and 2 hooked up wrong. I fixed them. The only other thing I noticed was the gas level is not in the middle of the site glass. It's at the bottom of the site glass. I'm thinking the bowl has enough gas to start and run the car but when the brakes are applied the extra load uses more gas and the carb doesn't have enough gas in it to maintain the deceleration when the brakes are applied. Am I right about this or is something else going on. Can somebody help me with this.?

I have a new fuel pump, new fuel pump relay, new fuel filter new remanufactured carburetor and new distributor.

86 Honda Accord LX 4dr sedan, 2.0L, 2 barrel keihin carb, auto, ac and tec distributor, CA emissions.

Thanks

[conozo]

It's possible you have a vacuum leak on your brake booster. With the car off pump your brake pedal it should get firm after a few pumps and it should not fall to the floor when you hold it there for a minute. There are some other easy test to do for the brake booster and vacuum leaks, you might want to check into that first just to rule out vacuum leaks.

[lx 1986]

Hi Conozo

I'll try what you said. I tried what you said with the brake and it's solid.

But would that affect the level of gas in the site glass?

The mechanic who installed the carb has installed 2 others for me with no problems. I'm wondering if it was just an oversite on his part not to check the gas level in the glass. Reason being since the virus happened he lost alot of business and he's been trying to stay afloat and has been trying to take on every job he can. He's been doing mostly smog testing and he works by himself right now.

[lx 1986]

I was thinking if the float level is set to low than it's not allowing enough gas to go into the bowl to keep the car running when the brakes are applied. I'm just going by common sense. Does this sound right? I hate messing with the carb because I don't know much about them.

[lx 1986]

I was thinking if the float level is set to low than it's not allowing enough gas to go into the bowl to keep the car running when the brakes are applied. I'm just going by common sense. Does this sound right? I hate messing with the carb because I don't know much about them.

[ShiRen]

The yellow screw right on top of the carb, if you think the float is too low just turn it until the fuel is in the middle of the bowl, car has to be running. Thats not anything to be afraid of, but I do think you have bigger problems. Make sure the vacuum lines are intact, but I might suspect the gasket under the carb.

[lx 1986]

Which way do I need to turn the screw to raise the level? Right or left? I read that you have to rev the engine 2 or 3 times between 0 and 3000 rpms and let the idle settle then turn the screw only an 1/8 of a turn every 15 seconds but it doesn't say which way does what. So does right lower it or raise it? Why do you think there's a problem with my gasket? Only asking because it's new.

So what your saying is a low gas level in the site glass shouldn't cause my car to stall when the brakes are applied?
What's disturbing is the gas is at the bottom of the site glass.

[ShiRen]

As long as it is idling steadily you can change it. I think you would turn it counter clockwise, that would move the seat up and raise the float. You can probably give it a good quarter turn then see where it sits in a couple seconds. I have mine set at the top mark in the sight, but anywhere in the middle is probably fine... mines a little hopped up, so I can lean out a bit. Run the car for a few minutes after you think its good, maybe give it some revs, make sure it stays about where you want it.

If that gasket is new its probably fine. Does it stall out at any time if you run floor it?

[lx 1986]

Hi ShiRen

The only time I've revved it was in park. When I rev it 1st time the rpms drop low then will go back up slowly. After that it seems to hold the rpms better with each rev. If I keep driving it has no problem. Only when I come to a stop the car wants to stall so I have to give it gas to keep it running when I step on the brake.

Thanks for telling me which way to turn the screw. I would think the manual would have that info. Any other thoughts would be helpful.

I have to try to make it to the gas station so I can do this

[ShiRen]

The way it responds to throttle input will tell you a lot and you can watch the carb and how much fuel its getting. Take the air cleaner off and rev it by hand. You can give it some small revs and if the choke is open you should see fuel spray from the gray venturi in the center and you should have a steady stream coming from the accelerator pump jet right about at the top on the side nearest to the firewall, this wont spray fuel if you hold the throttle open, only as you are moving the throttle open, you can even verify this is pumping when the car is not running. If you open the throttle more than about half way the bigger valve will start to open and you can see fuel spraying in that venturi.

If the car stumbles at any time doing this there might be an issue, you should be able to open the throttle fully quickly if you still have all the vacuum equipment working.

Do the brakes drag the engine down with the car in park or neutral? If not the brakes might not even be related, it could just be the adjustment in the throttle.

I've never really messed with an auto car, I forget how the idle circuit works, plus I don't have any of the vacuum system on my car.

[lx 1986]

ShiRen

As far as the brakes in park or neutral I'm not sure. I'll have to check that out. I'm going to check on the things you suggested tomorrow I'll have more time to work on it. I did make it to the gas station by working the brake and gas together. I did notice when I started the car today it didn't start right up once I turned the key. It turned over 2 times and then started. It usually starts right when the key is turned. I also noticed when it's running a slight loping in the idle once in a while.

I didn't mention the mechanic had up the idle so I could make it home the day I picked it up. So the idle is high. He was saying if he lowered it to 1000 rpms it would idle rough. I'm thinking he never test drove it, he just revved it in park. In park or neutral, rpms will drop and then like I said it eventually will hold which makes it appear to be somewhat ok only with a high idle. But once its got a load on it and the brakes are applied it's starving for gas and trys to die. If I make no stops the car runs fine. I'm assuming even with the gas level in the bowl being low it's still able to keep the car running.

I'm thinking when the float is set it prevents the gas from getting to much or to little depending on where it's set. In my case the level is at the bottom of the site glass when it should be in the middle. I'm assuming if it was set right, the level would stay the same all the time whether there's a load on the car or not because the pump feeds the bowl to maintain the same level and the float opens and closes to help maintain whatever level it's set at. I did notice the level of gas stays right at the bottom of the site glass when I've driven it.

I see your having radiator problems today. I hope all goes well with the repair.

I'll give you a progress report soon.

[ShiRen]

I've got an auto car for parts, drove it in the garage and immediately stripped the engine. That car idled at like 3k rpm though and I just put its carb on my 87 and none of the problems carried over. I still think the problem is external of the carb. A low float can probably cause problems, but I doubt its the root, I just think it should be sorted out.

Hehe, Im not having radiator problems, shes just a work in progress.

[lx 1986]

What do mean external problem, like fuel filters, fuel pump etc?

[ShiRen]

Somewhere in that mess of vacuum lines, or like I said earlier the throttle adjustment

[lx 1986]

I just restarted the car because the nearest station sells chevron I use 76 and I thought maybe a different brand would make a difference. The car started right up and no the brakes don't drag it down in park or neutral. Would you believe when I put it in drive and reverse the idle held when I put on the brakes. The gas level in the glass is still the same, low. I'm wondering if the outside temperature has something to do with it. When I went to get gas it was cool in the morning. It's been sitting in the sun since I brought it home and it was hot today. I know the temp does affect some of the things in this car I guess I'll find out in the morning. I wonder if removing the gas cap had something to do with it?

I'll check what you suggested tomorrow and some other stuff like vac leaks, hose connections etc. I tried to change the secondary fuel filter the other day right after I warmed the car up. I thought maybe it was plugged. I pulled the hose off the top part of the filter and gas started pouring out. I never had that happen before. I stuck the hose back on. I guess when I did this I lifted the hose high enough so gas filled the bowl. I guess the line had pressure in it. Not really sure. I figured the filter wasn't clogged nor was the hose. I started it next morning the bowl drained back to where it's at now. I was hoping it would stop 1/2 way down. I know the pipe that the gas line is hooked to isn't plugged. I know pump is working or car wouldn't run.

I know this sounds stupid but do I adjust the throttle with the throttle stop screw in the back of the carb (big black knob) or is there something else that adjusts it?

Thanks for helping me

[lx 1986]

ShiRen

I checked out hoses, all hooked up right, fixed 1, there are no vacuum leaks. Brakes don't affect idle in drive or reverse.

I did look down the throttle plate like you said while car was warm and running and saw gas dribbling out of venturi. When I manually gave it gas I did see it did spray gas with the dribbing gas. Car didn't stumble when revving. I can't tell you anything about the accelerator pump I counldn't get in a good angle to see. What does this mean?

[Dr_Snooz]

It doesn't sound like your mechanic did proper tuning on the carb. If so, he should refund about 80% of what he charged you. Anyone can swap out a carb, but you have to know what you're doing to tune it. That's what people are paying you for when they have you replace it.

The base tuning involves setting the most basic and important adjustments on the carb. They'll be things like float level adjustment, metering rod and spring sizes, jet sizes, idle mixture and accelerator pump adjustment. If you don't do base tuning first, you'll have all kinds of issues that you will never fix. You'll simply chase them around the carb, adjusting one thing to fix one symptom and creating another symptom in the process. The very first and most important thing in a base tune is your float level adjustment. Do this before doing anything else. While I'm not certain what issues a low float level might cause, some of your runnability problems, rough idle, stuttering and the like are most likely because of that.

Because it wasn't done, you should spend some time in the manual (link is in my signature) verifying that the other base tuning items are correct as well. I haven't done much tuning on these Keihin carbs, and it's been a loooong time since I worked on one, so you'll have do some reading on general carb tuning, then look through the manual to see how much of it applies to you. Carbs can get built a lot of different ways and include some tuning items that other carbs don't. It's complicated.

Here is a basic guide on carb tuning (https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/how-to-adjust-your-carburetor-by-ed-ruelas). It's generic, but you get the jist. Edelbrock has an excellent carb tuning guide for their carbs (https://www.edelbrock.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/documents/carb-owners-manual.pdf). Most of it won't be applicable to you, BUT you should definitely read the theory of operation portion to understand what's happening with all your adjustments and what the various symptoms tell you. This is vital, IMHO. You shouldn't have to make any dramatic changes because the car is generally running well, but these adjustments are so important, it's worth making sure they are 100% perfect. You only have to do them once and you won't have to worry about them again.

Once that is done, I suspect you'll still have the low idle at stops. My guess is it's a vacuum leak, like others have already said. Don't rule out a gasket, even if it's new. New gaskets can still get damaged during installation. Goodness knows I've done. You can learn to find vacuum leaks with a Google search.

I somewhat alarmed that the fuel level rose when you raised the fuel filter. That shouldn't happen, but if the car is running well, then whatever.

Good luck on your adventure and keep us posted on your progress/questions.

[lx 1986]

Hi Dr_Snooze

The last adjustments he did was to just bumped the idle up so it wouldn't die when I drove it home. The timing is correct. I didn't find any vacuum leaks around the base gasket or anywhere on Fri but I'll check again.

If I still don't find any leaks I'll set the float level 1st. Then I'll lower the idle. Just to be sure the idle is lowered with the throttle stop screw in the back of the carb (black knob in the back) right? Are there any other screws that adjust the warm idle?

The car runs well lots of power, only problems the car is running hot because of the higher idle and the problem of the car trying to stall when I come to a stop.

Would using the brakes make the car use more or less gas.?

[ShiRen]

It doesn't sound like your mechanic did proper tuning on the carb. If so, he should refund about 80% of what he charged you. Anyone can swap out a carb, but you have to know what you're doing to tune it. That's what people are paying you for when they have you replace it.

The base tuning involves setting the most basic and important adjustments on the carb. They'll be things like float level adjustment, metering rod and spring sizes, jet sizes, idle mixture and accelerator pump adjustment. If you don't do base tuning first, you'll have all kinds of issues that you will never fix. You'll simply chase them around the carb, adjusting one thing to fix one symptom and creating another symptom in the process. The very first and most important thing in a base tune is your float level adjustment. Do this before doing anything else. While I'm not certain what issues a low float level might cause, some of your runnability problems, rough idle, stuttering and the like are most likely because of that.

Because it wasn't done, you should spend some time in the manual (link is in my signature) verifying that the other base tuning items are correct as well. I haven't done much tuning on these Keihin carbs, and it's been a loooong time since I worked on one, so you'll have do some reading on general carb tuning, then look through the manual to see how much of it applies to you. Carbs can get built a lot of different ways and include some tuning items that other carbs don't. It's complicated.

Here is a basic guide on carb tuning (https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/how-to-adjust-your-carburetor-by-ed-ruelas). It's generic, but you get the jist. Edelbrock has an excellent carb tuning guide for their carbs (https://www.edelbrock.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/documents/carb-owners-manual.pdf). Most of it won't be applicable to you, BUT you should definitely read the theory of operation portion to understand what's happening with all your adjustments and what the various symptoms tell you. This is vital, IMHO. You shouldn't have to make any dramatic changes because the car is generally running well, but these adjustments are so important, it's worth making sure they are 100% perfect. You only have to do them once and you won't have to worry about them again.

Once that is done, I suspect you'll still have the low idle at stops. My guess is it's a vacuum leak, like others have already said. Don't rule out a gasket, even if it's new. New gaskets can still get damaged during installation. Goodness knows I've done. You can learn to find vacuum leaks with a Google search.

I somewhat alarmed that the fuel level rose when you raised the fuel filter. That shouldn't happen, but if the car is running well, then whatever.

Good luck on your adventure and keep us posted on your progress/questions.

Thing is, these keihins are locked down. As long as its in normal working order all you have to adjust is that float, there is the mixture screw, but he shouldn't have to touch it, if he did I would imagine it would sputter if he idled it down to under 1000rpm even in park. Easy carb for a beginner if they can crawl through the jungle of vacuum lines.

[lx 1986]

I guess after I check the vacuum lines again ( I didn't have the air cleaner off) Now I feel like I didn't really check everything for a leak. I'll see if I missed any leaks. Then I'll adjust the float and idle. The black knob in the back of the carb is for the idle isn't it? Then I'll see what happens.

It's going to be hot for the next several days so I didn't want to work on it now until it gets cooler. The car is running hot right now as it is. I'll be happy if it's a vacuum leak that I can get to easily. I'll post back in a few days. Thanks guys for the help for now.

[lx 1986]

UPDATE ON PROGESS

I rechecked for vacuum leaks couldn't find any. I turned gas level counter clockwise about a 1/8 of a turn. Made the gas go up alittle. My rpms went up and made the car get real hot and the fan didn't come on. Well I turn the throttle stop screw back to lower rpms that helped but when I revved the car it would die. So I adjusted everything back to where it was except the gas level I got the car to idle and temp was at 1/2.

I decided to check the primary fuel-cut off solenoid located on the back of the carb to see if was working. I 1st tested the ones on my old carbs to see if my test would work with my spare battery. I have 2 solenoids. I hooked up both of them and they worked. But I found one had the tip broken in 1/2. Apparently because it still worked this company decided to use it. This was on the old carb before I replaced it. Since the test worked I tested the new one on the car. When I pulled it out it had some white residue on it. It looked like what you see from having hard water. It was the consistency of chalk. I pressed on the plunger and it was frozen. I pressed on it again and it broke loose. I cleaned it with carb cleaner and made sure the plunger moved freely and sanded the mating surface. I used my test and could hear and see the plunger was working. I reinstalled it. I haven't started the car yet because it was getting dark outside. I will update again to see the results and I'm hoping this will fix the problem.

[lx 1986]

I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS CAN ANYONE HELP ME?

After fixing the fuel cut off solenoid I did set the gas level back 1/8 of a turn when the car was warm to see what raising it would do. I didn't see any difference. Maybe I didn't run it long enough. I gave up and decided to see if there would be a difference the next day when I started it.

The following afternoon was hot outside so when I went to start it up I didn't give it any gas. I just turned the key to the on position and looked at the site glass and the level was at the minimum now, of what the level should be. Then I started the car and looked at the site glass again. It appeared the gas had filled the bowl to the upper level of the glass.

1. Am I mistaken in thinking the level is low and it is actually to high?
2. Could this also be why the gas is coming out of the primary venturi in a strong stream?
3. Is the venturi supposed to have a strong stream of gas coming out of it all the time and then when I rev it there is a spray of gas
that comes out above the stream of gas?
4. So if the float is set to high could that also be a reason why when I step on the brake when coming to a stop the car wants to stall
5. Is the carb flooding?

[ShiRen]

If it is at the top level it does, need to go down, but I don't think it actually makes problems.
If you are off throttle there should be no gas coming out of the primary, as you give it throttle a stream will shoot out of the orifice on the firewall side and vapor will start to be pulled from the venturi.
The only thing I would say is too much gas is if its pouring out one of the orifices off throttle.

[lx 1986]

ShiRen

So you don't think lowering the gas level will stop or slow down the flow of gas to the venturi?

I just thought if I lowered the gas level in the center of the site glass there would be less or no gas streaming out of the venturi.

When I rev it there is a spray of gas that comes out over the top of the strong stream of gas but the stream never stops.

Do you know how the gas goes from the bowl to the venturi? Do you know what the problem is or how to fix this?

I didn't want to mess to much with the gas level screw and have it start to leak because I don't know how to fix it.

I've looked at this and other forums but haven't found a fix.

[lx 1986]

I adjusted the float level down turned the screw clockwise, ran the car for a bit I didn't see anything happen.
Does anyone know how long it takes for the gas level to change?

[Oldblueaccord]

Usually with carbs the fuel levels out pretty quick engine running.

[lx 1986]

Thanks for the response Oldblueaccord.

Any ideas why mines didn't seem to do anything? I turned it 1/8 twice and I didn't see anything happen.

[Oldblueaccord]

No not off hand. Im by far not a Honda carb xpert but I do still have two carbed vehicles.

But rereading your thread you mention going to the brakes and the car stalling. That could be an issue with the vacuum to the brake booster,either a leak or the check valve is bad.

With the engine running,warmed up,idling what does the rpms do when you pump the brake pedal a few times?

[lx 1986]

The brakes are fine I checked them out earlier because someone suggested it might a brake booster problem. I wish it were it would be easier to solve.
I didn't find out about the venturi gushing out gas until later. What was bothering me was the gas level in the site glass then I thought the 2 might be related. From what I researched so far it was saying the high level in the glass might be the problem. That's why I was trying to lower it yesterday. I looked at it today and it filled up again when I started it this morning. Not sure if it's a stuck float or something else.

[Oldblueaccord]

Are you using the stock carb fuel pump? Carbs dont need much pressure maybe 4 psi at most. If the pressure gets high it can push past the needle and seat.

[ShiRen]

If the pump isn't stock or is wired to run constantly it def might be shooting out of the main venturi in a stream like he said earlier

[lx 1986]

I bought the pump at autozone It's a:

Delphi Gasoline Fuel Pump DHP10202

WEIGHT 1.84lbs
WARRANTY Limited-Lifetime

Note: Fuel Pump and Sender Assembly.

ITEM GRADE Standard Replacement
OUTLET SIZE: 5/16 in.
RELIEF PRESSURE: (psi) 94.0
MAXIMUM AMPERAGE: (A) 10.0
MAXIMUM FREE FLOW RATE: (gph) 30.0
WORKING PRESSURE: (psi) 3.0

What would make the pressure high? Would that stop the gas level from being adjusted?
Now I'm assuming since there's so much gas pouring out of the venturi when I rev the motor that it's not starving for gas it's flooding.

[Dr_Snooz]

Thing is, these keihins are locked down. As long as its in normal working order all you have to adjust is that float, there is the mixture screw, but he shouldn't have to touch it, if he did I would imagine it would sputter if he idled it down to under 1000rpm even in park. Easy carb for a beginner if they can crawl through the jungle of vacuum lines.

There's the float adjustment inside the bowl, right? That's vital. There's also idle mixture, idle speed and throttle cable tension. In addition, the accelerator pump arm can get bent and about 7 billion little vacuum pots, electric solenoids and other little bits can make your life very interesting.


I adjusted the float level down turned the screw clockwise, ran the car for a bit I didn't see anything happen.
Does anyone know how long it takes for the gas level to change?

At idle, I would proceed 1/8 turn at a time and wait 15 seconds after each turn like you were doing. There should be a mark on the sight glass that indicates where the gas level should be. On level ground, of course. Hit the mark and stop messing with it. Your problem is elsewhere. If you can't hit the mark, then you have a problem with your needle valves.

[lx 1986]

Thanks again Dr snooze

I tried turning it clockwise 1/8 every 15 seconds about 3 times and ran the car about 20 mins nothing happened. From what old blue accord said it should have gone down by then. I was thinking needle was stuck. I tried hitting the carb hoping it would knock it loose. No such luck. I noticed not only doesn't the gas level go down the float looks like it's not moving either. Could a stuck float be causing my problem instead of the needle or are they connected? How do you fix this?

[Dr_Snooz]

Yeah, the needle valve sits on top of the float. I think you can pull the top off the carb to inspect it. The only think I can't figure out is how the car runs at all if the needle valve is leaking. Or how you haven't succumbed to gas fumes while working on it.

[lx 1986]

Dr Snooze

So if the valve is leaking that would explain why when the car sits overnight the gas level goes from full to almost empty. Then when I start it in the morning & pump the gas it fills up to the top of the glass & never goes down. As far as how the car keeps running I'm guessing because the glass stays full & the over flow is being forced out the venturi. At least that's what appears to be happening. Everything I've researched about gas pouring out the venturi says adjust the gas level 1st & then make other adjustments accordingly. Well I tried & nothing happens. I don't know how to fix the problem so I'm thinking of having my old carb put back on. The problem with the other carb was hard starting in the morning. If I did get it running I could drive it when it was warmed up. Since I changed the dizzy never had that problem again.

I found another problem today my heater core is leaking. Have you ever had to change this or had a mechanic fix it? If so was it hard to do or was it expensive to have someone do it. Any advice would help.

[Dr_Snooz]

l can't really advise. l haven't worked on these carbs. Theoretically, it's pretty easy. The float, needle and seat are small parts at the top of the carb. If you're familiar with carbs and how to tune them, it should be pretty easy to fix. If you aren't, you could render the car inoperable and spend a lot of money convincing someone to fix it for you.

[ShiRen]

If you want to get your hands dirty, you can remove the screws from the top of the carb, its really not a big deal unless your top gasket it in really bad shape, just dont tear it while removing the lid. The float assembly will be attached to the lid, you will be able to see the operation of the needle and seat. You can pour gas or liquid (not water) through the fuel line and see if it stops the flow when the needle is seated.