Anyone near Denver who can help me with transmission removal?

[Jinnai]

I'm in the Denver area and my manual transmission needs replacement in my 3g Accord. It looks like it takes a lot of tools that I'm not familiar with. Is there anyone in the area who might be able to help me? I can pay you, though not the full $100/hr a mechanic normally gets.

[ShiRen]

It doesn't take any special tools at all, unbolt it and lower it out the bottom of the car. You just need a friend (hopefully he likes to bench press) or a trans jack to get it in/out. What tools are you not sure about? I'd say the most specialized tools are for separating the ball joints and the socket for the axles... I think its a 32mm and I didn't have one and I still got it off, I would invest in a pickle fork to remove ball joints though.

[Jinnai]

You mention the two main things in worried about - first, I'm a weak 135 pound 6 foot person, and second I'm not sure what a pickle form is. So I should also invest in a trans jack to take to the junkyard?
I just learned that the manual transmissions are rarer than the autos and am frustrated that the local junkyard crushed two of them. They have a high turnover rate and rareness won't slow them down. Next time they have one, I will try to retrieve it.

[conozo]

I laid a 2x4 across my engine bay from side to side and wrapped a rope around the board and transmission so when I lowered it I just let the rope slip in a controlled way down. After it was off I realized how light it actually is. 60-70lbs, to put it back on I did the same trick so I wouldn't drop it but really I just lifted it into place from the top and slid it on.

[ShiRen]

I was seriously hoping you already had a trans... I would honestly advise against grabbing any old one from the junk yard, whatever problems yours has they probably also have. It sickens me to see how many times Ive seen "manual trans replacement" recently.
I am no bigger than you, I got it out of the car when I replaced my clutch no problem. I had a friend push it up in the car because I couldn't keep it steady enough on my floor jack, it is possible, but a trans jack has a bigger foot so the trans can't wobble off. But yeah, the trans only weighs 70lbs, eat your wheaties and you can handle it. Idk how youd get it in from the top though, if I did that Id get cock blocked by the frame rail. If you aren't worried about your alignment I do know this trans will fit through the wheel well though.

https://www.amazon.com/ARES-12016-15-16-inch-Pickle-Separator/dp/B07WFC7K6J/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=pickle+fork&qid=1602173385&sr=8-2 This is a pickle fork, you stick it in the ball joint to make it come loose, just be careful not to break the boot or you are going to be pressing a new ball joint in. Get a big hammer and hit the end of the lower control arm and hopefully it breaks loose without too much effort.

What is the issue with your current trans, I really hope you can save that one.

[conozo]

Let me clarify, I slid the tranny under the car then reached through the top of engine bay to grab the tranny from the floor and lifted into place on the engine. There are dowel pins and the shaft you slide it on to align so it will stay there till you get all the bolts on or at least a few.

[ShiRen]

Let me clarify, I slid the tranny under the car then reached through the top of engine bay to grab the tranny from the floor and lifted into place on the engine. There are dowel pins and the shaft you slide it on to align so it will stay there till you get all the bolts on or at least a few.

That makes more sense. I did not have a fun time getting the damn thing to go on the dowels last time, so I cant imagine doing that. Maybe with the help of a cherry picker, that does sound easier than a floor jack.

[Jinnai]

Ah no, I don't have one. It sticks in 1st and reverse and 5th is nonexistent. It also hemorrhages oil and shakes around 45 mph or higher, but I don't know if those are related. How else could I fix it?

[ShiRen]

Ugh sounds like its been starved of oil. Can you actually not get it into 5th? Have you changed/filled it with oil? It just takes engine oil, but I think I had less stiff 1-2 and vibrated less with a regular tranny oil like Honda green. The shift shaft seal is the bitch that has a high chance of leaking and the trans has to be disassembled to fix it. Not hard to disassemble the trans if you follow the manual, but it might be a bit much if youre new to wrenching.

[Oldblueaccord]

You mention the two main things in worried about - first, I'm a weak 135 pound 6 foot person, and second I'm not sure what a pickle form is. So I should also invest in a trans jack to take to the junkyard?
I just learned that the manual transmissions are rarer than the autos and am frustrated that the local junkyard crushed two of them. They have a high turnover rate and rareness won't slow them down. Next time they have one, I will try to retrieve it.

I would hunt around for a good shop and have them do the work. They may be able to get a reman 5 speed through connections that we dont have.

[Jinnai]

Hmm, no I have not put oil/fluid into it yet, though I'm guessing the damage is done (before I got it, I got it this way). 5th does nothing at all, it feels as if it doesn't exist, no grinding, no popping, just neutral flopping.
Alright, there's a place that did work on my 84 Prelude years ago called Hondamotive, now called Japan Automotive, that I could try.

[Oldblueaccord]

Chat them up a little bring in a box of donuts.

You can drive around on 1-4 5th is just overdrive for the highway.

[Jinnai]

I totally agree! I'm more concerned about the shaking and the sticking in lower gears (sometimes I can't get it *out* of 1st when parking). 5th isn't as much fun as the lower gears in an A20 anyway.

[Oldblueaccord]

its the clutch...shut the motor off real quick and pull it out of gear and restart it. The clutch can be adjusted with the cable but Id say you got more going on then that.

[Jinnai]

I mean, I do have a new Luk clutch to put in, at least, whenever I get around to fixing the trans.

[ShiRen]

Ok, you definitely ought to drain the oil and put something else in it. I think I used Delo 10w-30, thats cheap and is full of additive, Rotella too. Fill it with the fill hole slightly uphill and try to overfill it a tad, its leaking anyway.

[Dr_Snooz]

You're going to have a devil of a time finding a working trans. They are rare as hen's teeth. I went through 5 or so trying to find even enough parts to cobble together into a working one. I went through every salvage trans in California and never did get anything remotely close to rebuildable. I finally found a rebuilt unit through mantrans.com, but it still had some minor issues. That was maybe 50k miles ago and now it doesn't want to go into 1st and crunches with every shift into 5th. I'm not sure what I'll do when it fails. All that to say, do everything you can to save what you have because you aren't likely to find anything better.

When I installed the rebuilt, I had to buy a trans jack because it simply would not slide into place. I assume the input shaft was jamming in the clutch plate somehow. The trans jack allowed me to align the trans perfectly prior to sliding it into place. Then it worked. Yours might go on easily, but it might not. Be prepared for the worst.

A pickle fork will destroy your ball joint boots, which will eventually destroy your ball joints. You can buy proper tools (https://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-forged-ball-joint-separator-99849.html) to separate ball joints, which I'd recommend. On the other hand, you might consider replacing your ball joints anyway, as a preventive measure, but that will involve more tools, more cost and more learning. Here's a tip, new ball joints come apart with great difficulty. Old ball joints come apart easily and the worn out ones fall apart on their own.

I'm pretty sure you DON'T have to remove the axles from the hubs to pull the trans, which saves you the struggle of loosening the spindle nuts. Check the manual for more details.

Fifth gear failure is a common issue that you can fix easily without pulling the trans. Just search around the site for info on how to do it. The first gear issue is probably clutch-related like someone else mentioned, so check your clutch adjustment. Note, you probably don't need a new clutch to fix it, but you might need a new clutch cable. Vibration is a very uncommon issue with these transmissions, so check your tire balance and suspension components before assuming it's the trans.

I think the consensus on the site a few years ago was that Honda's Manual Transmission Fluid (from the dealership) yields the smoothest transmission operation.

Good luck and keep us posted on what you learn.

[ShiRen]

Snooz, all my years wrenching and I have legitimately never seen a separator like that. Im going to buy one right now. You can still get away with a pickle fork but if you havent used it hundreds of times I think it comes down to whether the Gods are feeling generous that day in order to not rip the boots.

[Dr_Snooz]

Happy to help!

[Jinnai]

Thank you very much for the information! I really don't like the prospect of a working trans being rare. I have two of these, one with a working trans that I'm selling cause it has no title and a lot of rust, and one with a broken trans. This all makes me feel like I would be better served by swapping the trans I already have in.

I would like to be sure the issue is actually not the clutch though, since yes the gear engagement/disengagement issues do actually have a very clutch feel to them, though I don't know about 5th. You push it towards fifth as far as you can and there is *nothing*, like one big L shaped neutral. I could live without it, but why should I if I have a perfectly good trans in my driveway already in an untitled car?

[ShiRen]

Yeah I don't really see the point in selling a junk car with no title, strip that thing of its good parts and find a scrap yard that will take it.

As for the clutch, I had a lot of trouble with mine too. You should replace the cable because my original was stretched too long to properly adjust it anymore, I got around it for a while by essentially moving the metal ball on the end up the cable about an inch and a half by cutting a 1/4" steel tube lengthwise and squeezing it back together on the cable. You can see some pics on my cars thread https://www.3geez.com/forum/3geez-accords/141416-87-dx-sedan-project-log.html Tighten the plastic nut on the top of the bracket until the clutch arm has no play but not tight enough that its pulling on the arm and putting pressure against the clutch. Now go in the car and see how far you can press the pedal down, you might have to remove everything from behind the clutch pedal like I did, I can't explain why but at some point my car gained several inches of clutch pedal travel.

[Jinnai]

I feel pressure on the pedal close to the top of it's range of movement, but in actual driving, I notice that it's fully engaged very close to the end of it's movement. I'm not sure what it's doing in the middle, but it's nothing useful. I pulled the car out today:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/484526318839660545/765350153993191424/20201012_170750.jpg
I noted that it made a grinding sound every time I attempted to put it in reverse. I found that interesting. I spent a few hours searching for data on the forums and here is what I found:

How to fix 5th gear if it is simply worn away:
1. Remove intake plumbing, battery and tray (for access), drain transmission (remove fill plug first*), remove the fifth gear cover (8 6mm bolts I think)
2. Unstake both shaft nuts, remove the fifth gear fork spring pin (with punch)
3. Shift transmission into 1st or reverse, also engage fifth gear by hand. If your fifth gearset has bad splines you may need to jam a rag in the gear or something else creative to remove the shaft nuts. The idea is to get the shafts not to rotate freely.
4. Remove the shaft nuts with 30 mm socket. ONE OF THEM IS LEFT HANDED, but I forget which one. Check before you start. The Helm manual is posted on 3geez somewhere.
5. Pull everything off both shafts: fifth gearset, needle bearings, spares, shim(s), synchronizer assembly
6. Reassemble in reverse order. Use new shaft nuts and STAKE THEM HARD (don't ask). RTV alone is fine for the fifth gear cover.

And:
You’re not getting into anything too deep. You’re just removing the outer housing that you’ll see on the right end of your tranny. About a dozen 10mm bolts, then some big nuts to remove to get the gears off. Just be aware that one of those big nuts are left handed threads, (lefty tightly, righty loosey)

Here is a picture (not mine) of what a worn away 5th gear might look like:
https://i.imgur.com/wuuub1s.png

I will first check the trans fluid on a level surface, as I would hate to never know if it was ran oil-deprived. Then I will attempt to get to the 5th gear and see if it's torn up, which I hope it is, as it seems like the easiest fix here. Somewhere in there I will try tightening the clutch cable.

Lastly, this looks like the right gear to me, brand new, what do you think? HONDA A2 & ACURA CG TRANSMISSION 5TH GEAR KIT 36T/25T FITS '85-'89 (HON-5) - Transmission Parts Distributors (https://www.transmissionpartsdistributors.com/honda-a2-acura-cg-transmission-5th-gear-kit-36t-25t-fits-85-89-hon-5/)
And are these the right parts to rebuild the trans if needed? https://www.transmissionpartsdistributors.com/honda-a2-acura-cg-transmission-rebuild-kit-with-synchro-rings-fits-85-89-bk238ws/

[ShiRen]

Don't care about the pedal, its got a relief spring in it and the clutch itself feels dead and lifeless, the pressure plate is hardly strong enough to give you any pedal feedback over this. Check the clutch arm play.

Problem with 5th being torn up is the metal, look at all the sludge in that pic, thats all metal and its going to get into everything else.

That does look like the parts you need though

[Jinnai]

So if 5th is ground up, and metal is all over the trans, then all the gears will grind up too unless I take it apart, or can I flush it out?

[ShiRen]

You might be able to flush it out, but the trans probably needs to stay relatively upright. You can use a cheap engine oil, easiest way would be jack the right wheel up so the fill hole is higher than normal, fill it til it runs out, move the jack to the other wheel and you might let it sit in that position for a few minutes before draining it, let the sludge run to the lowest point. Problem is there is a trough in the bottom of the trans where the shifter goes, its going to want to sit in there because theres a magnet there to catch it too. I reckon you should be able to flush out all the loose sludge though. I wouldn't go through the trouble if you plan on opening the trans though, which is actually pretty straightforward if you feel up for it.

[Jinnai]

Well, I am up for it, but if I can get it running without damaging itself, I'll let it be. It leaks oil very, very heavily, as in, it looked like it was slowly draining while at rest, so I can't use it at a minimum til I fix that leak, the grinding while shifting, and the severe shaking. I mean, it also was blowing something out the exhaust, don't know what but it smelled like a barbecue, and has some rust holes, so it has all sort of issues I could go after, given time :)

[Jinnai]

Uh what will be the most practical way to accurately check the trans fluid level if I can't reach under the car without jacking it up and I can't jack it up straight?

[Oldblueaccord]

Manual trans its the fill bolt, you check it from the top level ground. Its a 17mm head I think and a huge washer on it. The bolt faces the passenger side tire.

Fill till it runs out.

[Jinnai]

Alright, so today was kind of rough for the Accord. First, I was unable to get the filler bolt off, it began rounding off (used a walmart 17mm crescent wrench) and I stopped trying:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/484526318839660545/765765398825271316/unknown.png
Then I didn't have a tool to remove the oil drain plug. I read that it's 10mm not 3/8th and I sure don't have a 10mm implement of that shape. Then, I noticed the passenger boot is torn and grease got flung everywhere:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/484526318839660545/765745372068839434/IMG_20201013_185429723.jpg
I don't know if it's the cause of the shaking, and I only have y'all's opinions to go off of. All I know from what I've read online is that I can't leave it like this or it'll damage itself.
Lastly, here's the oil it leaked after only one day:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/484526318839660545/765807133161553980/IMG_20201013_190438700.png
It's all under the oil pan. I suppose that's good. I don't know what all might be leaking, but I know only the oil pan is leaking this incredibly.

[ShiRen]

Its more likely you have a main seal leak or an oil filter housing gasket leak than the oil pan, in fact highly likely even if the oil pan is leaking. A bad axle is definitely liable to cause a vibration, yes

Try a 6 point 17mm 3/8 socket on the fill plug, should be able to get it off no problem. Is the drain plug a square? I've slept since the last time I change the oil, but I know I did not use a 10mm square, I don't even think I have a 10mm allen.

[Oldblueaccord]

hate to say it it might be pipe wrench time on that one. it always seams to tighten up over time. Gearboxs are weird that way. yes the fill is 3/8 square,ratchet size.

[Jinnai]

Its more likely you have a main seal leak or an oil filter housing gasket leak than the oil pan, in fact highly likely even if the oil pan is leaking. A bad axle is definitely liable to cause a vibration, yes

Try a 6 point 17mm 3/8 socket on the fill plug, should be able to get it off no problem. Is the drain plug a square? I've slept since the last time I change the oil, but I know I did not use a 10mm square, I don't even think I have a 10mm allen.

That... doesn't sound good, how do I check the main seal? Do I need to remove the trans for that too?


Try a 6 point 17mm 3/8 socket on the fill plug, should be able to get it off no problem. Is the drain plug a square? I've slept since the last time I change the oil, but I know I did not use a 10mm square, I don't even think I have a 10mm allen.

Alright, will do. If it rounds off, I'll drain it and fill it without checking it.

Thanks oldblue, I'll have to just get a longer 3/8 then!

[Oldblueaccord]

Well the 3/8" is the square drive of your 3/8 ratchet. It fits in the drain plug on the lowest point of the trans.

https://www.universalmedicalinc.com/media/catalog/product/cache/b434b261ff0d53154b8182da6df3b316/7/1/71784_titanium-socket-wrenches-and-ratchet-handle.jpg

Sorry about the huge picture best i could find a work.

If you cant get the fill plug out I wouldnt mess with draining it yet. Some people do fill it thru the speedometer housing hole but taking off the speedo adapter is just adding complication you dont need.

...and yes your CV joint i bad and needs replacing.

[ShiRen]

That... doesn't sound good, how do I check the main seal? Do I need to remove the trans for that too?

The front main seal is behind the timing cover, it is probably a little more hidden than the rear, but look to see if oil is in or coming from the timing cover. The rear main seal is a little more visible, there will be oil behind the flywheel. You do have to remove the trans to replace it, but it should be done every time you change the clutch. Pay attention to which side of the engine it leave a pool of oil on. Driver side is probably from behind the timing cover, middle is probably from the oil filter housing, passenger side is probably rear main seal. Also look under the distributor and behind the cam gear for oil, and ofc if the valve cover was incorrectly installed or the gasket is bad that will leak, probably from the back corners where you can't normally see.

[Dr_Snooz]

It leaks oil very, very heavily, as in, it looked like it was slowly draining while at rest, so I can't use it at a minimum til I fix that leak, the grinding while shifting, and the severe shaking. I mean, it also was blowing something out the exhaust, don't know what but it smelled like a barbecue, and has some rust holes, so it has all sort of issues I could go after, given time :)

Is the car you're selling in better shape than this one? Parts are rare and parts cars are almost non-existent. If the trans works, keep the car around and grab everything else off of it you can think of. You won't find another working trans again and it doesn't sound like your engine is doing any better. Plan ahead now.

Hate to say it, but you aren't looking at one oil leak. You're probably closer to a dozen. I find it easiest to start replacing seals at the top of the leak. Leaking oil leaves a shiny trail that almost always points straight up at your leak. If it points all the way up to the valve cover, then replace that gasket first. A fixed oil leak will stop being shiny after a couple weeks. Go back again and replace the next highest seal until you've gotten them all. That's the easiest way I've found to manage leaks.

A CV axle isn't bad until it's been clicking around corners for awhile. Yes, according to Honda, you should stop what you're doing and run to the dealer to have that boot replaced, but a boot replacement is only slightly cheaper than new axles and 10x the mess. If the joint isn't clicking when you go around corners, you can ignore it. Unless you're looking for more work to do. I admit that I would replace that axle right now, but only because I hate all the messy goop being splattered over the underside of my car.

The bolts on the trans like to seize in the aluminum housing and create all kinds of fun. On mine, I remove some of the clutter above the trans, then use my breaker bar to bust the bolt loose. The drain bolt is the same way. It's a guaranteed smashed finger if you use anything less than a breaker bar because it will suddenly let go without warning. I've done profoundly grievous damage to my thumb on 2 different occasions by not using a breaker bar. In fact, my last black thumbnail only recently grew out. The breaker bar gets your fingers out from under the car, gives more leverage and more control. If you don't have a breaker bar, buy one. It will save you several weeks nursing a smashed finger.

[Jinnai]

It's been a while since I posted, but life is pretty busy, with work and school and cars and housing... I sold the second car; keeping a parts car was impossible while living at an apartment, even having two is inconvenient.

A shame about the oil leak, I really need it to not leak so profusely, being at an apartment and all. I'll start at the oil pan gasket, but I'm not in a position to replace any too close to the engine right now like a oil pump gasket for example.

I did succeed in getting the oil bolts off and draining it. The oil didn't look that bad. I also got off the steering knuckle and cv axle. Regrettably I used the pickle for and broke the boots, but it is what it is.
The new axle I have:
https://i.imgur.com/z1ppVUa.jpg

old wheel bearing:
https://i.imgur.com/nU5z018.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/VOmirON.jpg

New wheel hub assembly installed by a shop for $75:
https://i.imgur.com/sTaKySt.jpg

I managed to get the 5th gear out, at least from the mainshaft. Haven't yet gotten the nut off the countershaft. Here is how awful the gear was, compared to a new one:
https://i.imgur.com/Qf5c2za.jpg

Where do I source a new nut for the A2Q5 transmission? I'm guessing I should replace them, as they're crushed on one end.

Here's a video showing the sound it made before I tore it apart:

https://youtu.be/QqIQBhz6mzY

[ShiRen]

I didn't replace mine lol... Just peened it back in place

[Jinnai]

I didn't replace mine lol... Just peened it back in place

That was my backup plan, I just hope it's not a horrible idea, not knowing what exactly I'm doing here.

[ShiRen]

Its fine unless that nut splits where you peened it

[Dr_Snooz]

You won't find a replacement nut, so that's your next best option. Looks like your fixing some seriously bad stuff. Good job!

[conozo]

I reused mine also, its been fine.

[Jinnai]

Both 5th gears out, looking flattened:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/440600468776026154/812963564771999764/IMG_20210201_184831975.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/440600468776026154/812963565299695626/IMG_20210201_184913613.jpg

New gears in, looking great:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/440600468776026154/812963420198010921/IMG_20210206_190419131.jpg

Everything taken apart:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/440600468776026154/812963924831633418/IMG_20210116_115220480.jpg

Everything put back together, doesn't look very exciting:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/417414177297006640/812869830256361472/IMG_20210220_185100774.jpg

My brother and I replaced the control arm, CV axle, 5th gear set, steering knuckle ball joint (via a shop that did it for $65), and added new Synchromesh. So far it's working! No more loud noise and 5th gear is working fine. Thanks guys! If that job holds together, I just have to worry about the massive leak, and it'll be non-critical or cosmetic stuff from there.

[Oldblueaccord]

Very cool job on that.

[Dr_Snooz]

Nice work!

[Oldblueaccord]

Keep that's Trans full of oil and stay outta 5th gear under 45 mph and you'll be fine. It will whine in the higher gears if your oil is low in the trans.

[ShiRen]

Brings a tear to my eye watching all the young driveway mechanics grow up! Goes from asking for help to replacing the whole 5th gear, good job!

[Jinnai]

Hey fellas. After a while of being fine, it started having problems again. I thought mostly problems with first - it's sometimes popping out of gear, which is pretty disconcerting, but then it started getting stuck in reverse. I freed it from reverse by dropping the clutch, but ever since then, fifth hasn't worked. I don't know what broke there, but I'm guessing they're related, since they happened at the same time. I looked in the engine bay - actually while replacing a coolant hose - and noticed that the last person who worked on it decided not to bolt the top rear engine brace in place. Either they figured it was better off without it, or the bolts were hard to reach it and they said "eh fuck it, too much work".

Anyways, fixing that stopped the engine from flopping around forward and back, but 1st still pops itself out sometimes, and 5th is still completely dead, like one big neutral. It worked on the way to school that day, so it didn't wear out it's teeth again like last time. Think it is connected to reverse, and any ideas how to fix it?

[Oldblueaccord]

Hey fellas. After a while of being fine, it started having problems again. I thought mostly problems with first - it's sometimes popping out of gear, which is pretty disconcerting, but then it started getting stuck in reverse. I freed it from reverse by dropping the clutch, but ever since then, fifth hasn't worked. I don't know what broke there, but I'm guessing they're related, since they happened at the same time. I looked in the engine bay - actually while replacing a coolant hose - and noticed that the last person who worked on it decided not to bolt the top rear engine brace in place. Either they figured it was better off without it, or the bolts were hard to reach it and they said "eh fuck it, too much work".

Anyways, fixing that stopped the engine from flopping around forward and back, but 1st still pops itself out sometimes, and 5th is still completely dead, like one big neutral. It worked on the way to school that day, so it didn't wear out it's teeth again like last time. Think it is connected to reverse, and any ideas how to fix it?

All that flopping around I would give the shift linkage a good look over. That second "torque" rod, that round rod that mounts to the trans bell housing with a bushing, is very very important if its not hooked up ...as in you wont be able to get it in gear.