Possible upgraded ignitor for TEC distributor [Archive] - 3geez.com

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ShiRen

05-24-2021, 07:52 AM

Edit: This ignitor requires a VR conditioner to work with our distributors. See this post: Replacing ignitor with a GM HEI unit (https://www.3geez.com/forum/3geez-accords/148451-replacing-ignitor-gm-hei-unit.html)

My heart goes out to all of you folks that deal with your TEC dizzys, specifically you cali spec cars and fuel injected guys, but I may have found your salvation. Behold: Bosch 0 227 100 124 ignitor.

Lets start off with the problems

I have not tested it
I have no clue what the hole spacing is
I don't know what its heat tolerance is, I can only assume it is probably fine
connecting it to the dizzy may be interesting to say the least (they ofc don't make the exact style ignitor with the pins that go into the dizzy body)

But the pros tho...

This part won't fade into obscurity
Off brand parts are probably reliable
Frequently used in aftermarket applications

This is a ubiquitous single channel external ignitor recommended for use with Megasquirt, Haltech, and Motec (I haven't looked for others I have just found their documentation.) Ofc it comes on Euro cars, so junk yarding might be a tad difficult, but they can be found on Saab 900/9000 B202, Volvo 200/700 B230F, Porsch 928/944 would be the most comon cars.

Motec documentation (https://www.dropbox.com/s/fo4c95s3rhvgalw/m12.pdf?dl=0)
Megasquirt documentation (http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/Bosch_124.htm)

Wiring should be pretty straightforward, the stock ignitor has an ignition positive, ground, coil output, and signal in from the pick up in the dizzy. If the bolt spacing is correct or close enough then one wire can be ran from the pickup to the ignitor and the rest can be tapped out of the original harness. There is a small possibility that this will require a different ignition coil, but being as it is a solid state component you should be able to run a more modern coil if they can handle being fired twice per rev. The stock ignitor may have some function in making the the distributor do its job, this is probably the biggest hurdle in throwing one in a distributor, but it may be as simple as putting a diode in or piggybacking off the stock ignitor.
like this coil (https://www.efihardware.com/products/377/connector-7-pin-igniter-plug-kit)
or this coil (https://www.aemelectronics.com/products/ignition-components/high-performance-coils/high-output-inductive-dumb-coil)

Ebay Volvo Saab Porsche oem (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313&_nkw=0227100124&_sacat=0)
Part from O'Reilly's (90 Saab 900 turbo) (https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/ignition---tune-up/ignition-module-control-unit-ignitor/9331d0e7f826/v/a/6525/automotive-car-1990-saab-900?q=ignition+module%2Fcontrol+unit%2Fignitor)
O'Reilly's (87 Volvo 740 GLE turbo) (https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/ignition---tune-up/ignition-module-control-unit-ignitor/9331d0e7f826/v/a/823/automotive-car-1987-volvo-740?q=ignition+module%2Fcontrol+unit%2Fignitor)
O'Reilly's (90 Porsche 944 S2) (https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/ignition---tune-up/ignition-module-control-unit-ignitor/9331d0e7f826/v/a/125/automotive-car-1990-porsche-944?q=ignition+module%2Fcontrol+unit%2Fignitor)
Part on Rockauto (https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/bosch,0227100124,ignition+control+module+(icm),717 2)
And the cheapest Rockauto part which for some reason does not cross reference (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4556877&cc=1265600&jsn=10930)

Connector part number is Bosch 1 278 013 005
AAFM Connector Bosch Ignition Module connector (https://www.efihardware.com/products/377/connector-7-pin-igniter-plug-kit)
https://www.haltech.com/product/ht-030314-plug-and-pins-only-bosch-7-pin/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pin-Female-Bosch-Style-AFM-Sensor-Connector-Quick-Connect-W-boot-Pigtail/232564861216
https://www.ebay.com/itm/142807037491
Module and connector (https://www.ebay.com/itm/164851056952)

If anyone is willing to work on this with me that would be great, I have no reason to spend money on this as I have a Hitachi dizzy.

Dr_Snooz

05-25-2021, 08:08 PM

Cool!

ShiRen

05-26-2021, 04:12 AM

You're gonna try this for me right?? :lol:

Oldblueaccord

05-26-2021, 06:36 PM

My original is running or I would. :)

For myself I would probably look at using the GM HEI mo dual. its pretty popular swap like on my older Chrysler setup and there alot of after market distributors that use it.

ShiRen

05-27-2021, 04:28 AM

HEI ignitors are a little bit more involved often times. I was thinking about it too, but there is so many ways to wire it up. I think the 4 wire would be best.

Here is the simplest diagram I have seen, which should work but I have seen every other configuration under the sun. A lot of configurations ground pin W and pull pin G high with the distributor pickup.

10826

Edit: Ugh, I keep digging deeper into this and learning a bit more. Its only a pain because you are right :rofl: The HEI is a better ignitor for our application because our distributor uses an internal VR sensor like the one in the diagram above. The Bosch 124 will work with a VR signal conditioner though... its just more work... or maybe it won't take the signal at all because it would rather have an advance signal. Which has lead me to another discovery... Some HEI and the Bosch 124 can add adjustment for coil dwell time if you add an ignition controller and don't want to go distributorless, which ofc could be done with an obd1 dizzy.

Oldblueaccord

05-27-2021, 04:41 AM

ShiRen

05-27-2021, 05:23 AM

Ok ok, you are right, I am just making realizations... I'm gonna have to rewrite this post :rofl:

The HEI does not care what waveform you give it. Our distributors have a 2 wire VR sensor, magnetic sine wave, it will need conditioned to use with the Bosch 124. On an HEI ignitor they just go to W and G. Irrelevant, but for a 3 wire square wave hall effect you just wire the 12v wire to pin B and ground to pin W and the signal will pull pin G high on the square wave pulse, same for points.

Oldblueaccord

05-27-2021, 09:01 AM

I dont think the Hall effect works...it has to be magnetic pickup. Its makes a little AC when you spin the distributor you can actually test with a regular DVM. I believe its a Sine wave where the Hall is Square.

Also to add you really need the matching coil that takes full 12 volts and has low resistance I think its .5 ohm or lower. Thats where the higher spark potential is.

ShiRen

05-27-2021, 09:36 AM

It does work with a hall effect sensor, the HEI ignitor, and probably even the stock one only need to see it go high, be it from magnetic induction from a VR sensor or your buddy poking the pin with a battery cable as fast as he can. here is an example (https://i0.wp.com/gardentractorpullingtips.com/animate/ignhei.gif) Most ecus don't even read a hall effect sensor going negative because they are referenced across ground, its just a very precise 12v pulse unlike a VR sensor. Like I said, it would be the exact same for points (https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/hei-jpg.2926295/) If you were thinking about the hall sensor going across W and G directly, then yeah no.

The stock coil should work... it leaves much to be desired though.

Oldblueaccord

05-28-2021, 05:53 PM

it needs a certain waveform from the pickup and I cant remember if its square wave or not.

How To Convert A Ford Or Chrysler Ignition To GM HEI - Car Craft (https://www.hotrod.com/articles/convert-a-ford-or-chrysler-ignition-to-gm-hei/)

HEI Distributor Block Mopar For Dodge Chrysler 318 340 360 Complete Electronic | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/273958418849?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAAAoItkCQHr4cteDNa9O%2BRP2R5glrW YQHIIb3oKTJnGEPkszGAlsPhcp8AGtQc57XMkSxiNF2WgO7p7D Oaoz6fHAwd1aL94ijUmzSTmfrBL1Y49Oy3xayeqDmYykQyiLXF 8dbwdyKm4JyOFml%2FHElwG3b3zT0TcHq1B%2BJt6effp29C7Y iz9gciz%2FCMaunTFZGJE2dmWVCKJJGOvzJDRSgg39Fo%3D&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=273958418849&targetid=1262407448340&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9013451&poi=&campaignid=12873831781&mkgroupid=120167280657&rlsatarget=pla-1262407448340&abcId=9300536&merchantid=114766349&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhr2FBhDbARIsACjwLo1_Xpz_RPVDiFfSFr1c IYpymAUFlONsY_abWVnmjq8IjX7whjT9RycaAqh3EALw_wcB)

Hall Effect or Reluctor? - Haltech (https://www.haltech.com/hall-effect-or-reluctor/)

pretty good explanation of the pick ups.

I think megasquirt uses the HEI module.

Distributor Pickups (http://www.useasydocs.com/theory/pickups.htm)

My understanding the 7,8 pin always gives you 10 degrees of advance unless one if the pins is active.

EDIT: MicroSquirt® Module by Bowling & Grippo ?2009 (http://www.microsquirtmodule.com/index.htm)