Lowering it proper, have a few questions

[Project-LXi]

Im looking to have my car lowered in about a month from now, and I want to do it right. Here is what Im planning on doing:

Konis front
Tokicos Rear (or Konis depending on price)
Sprint 2.25 Drop Springs

So, here are the questions:

Is the difference between Tokicos and Konis in the rear very drastic? Ride Quality? Handling?

Ive heard that if you lower the car more than 1.5" you might need a camber kit. I would assume since I am going with a 2.25" drop, one would be nessesary. However, I dont like to assume, so can someone please explain.

I went to the Koni website, and noticed that according to their catalog, only Koni Reds are available for our cars. I just want to make sure that those are indeed the Konis everyone is talking about, since it appeared that the yellow sport line were Koni's adjustable ones. (didnt see anything about Reds being adjustable)

I have 16" Niche Bella Rims. The offset of which I believe is 42" (I could be wrong they may be 45", but lets say 42" to be on the safe side) The tires are Toyo FZ4 Proxies 205/45/16. I am planning on going with Sprint 2.25" drop springs. I dont forsee any problems from the information Ive read, but I am far from a suspension expert. Just want to make sure thats all good before I go ahead and order the springs.

Well, thats about all I can think of, feedback would be most helpful

[anchovies]

You're be fine with the offset/drop setup.
Yes on the camber kit. You can use the 83-87 prelude upper arms for camber adjustability.
Yes on the koni reds. Only adjustable for rebound.
I would say yes on the rear tokicos vs. konis. I'm riding on tokicos rear, a little bouncy. How drastic a difference, I'm not sure. If you have the $$, shoot for the konis all around.

[jigga225]

yah fo sho you gonna need a camber kit.

I got tokicos all the way around.
I would say NO for tokicos on the front... but for the rear yah thats cool. I dont have any bounce in the rear... cuz think about it, theres no weight back there.

niche bellas hmmm

[IWLSF]

The rule of thumb is every 1" you lower a car, generally the camber goes out 1 degree of negativity. For any of the alignment machines, +- 0.8 is considered green as far as camber goes. For example, my car was lowered about 4", and the camber in the front is ::cough3.8cough::. It sucks. The rear is fine, just do a homemade camber kit, nothing special. And dont worry too much about the adjustability, unless you are wanting the bragging rights, or plan on SCCA racing. The extra money for a feature you dont really need is worthless.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by IWLSF
And dont worry too much about the adjustability, unless you are wanting the bragging rights, or plan on SCCA racing. The extra money for a feature you dont really need is worthless.

Stop justify wasting money on struts that can't do the job with "only spend the money if you want to race" story. It has ZERO to do with that and EVERTHING to do with facts. Now some people do not care how their car rides and drives once it's been lowered. And some people do not know that their lowered ride SHOULD not be run on weak sturts, like the tokico H.P.'s, Kyb GR-2's or stock Bilstein H.D.'s and like I said some people don't care. Anyone using those on a lowered car is violating proper car dynamics by using a strut that does not have the dampning power for stiffer lowering springs. If a honda suspension designer produced a production honda that made it to market with struts that weak on stiffer springs, I guarantee he'd be fired.

No other strut should be used on a lowered 3rd gen except Koni Specials up to the stiffness of ground controls if you want your car to ride and drive right,..............that has NOTHING to do with wanting to be a racer and everything to do with getting the car right. Better handling is the side benefit of getting the suspension right, better responce and better control of the suspension. I rushed into my first suspension setup, I got it wrong. I spent a enormous abount of time researching things, I know most of the suspension techs on a first name basis. I vowed to not waste my money twice and to not let anyone else do the same or to spread misinformation.

I've got a pm inbox filled with people that want to know how to fix they lowered suspension problems, most of that centers around running weak struts.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by Project-LXi
Im looking to have my car lowered in about a month from now, and I want to do it right. Here is what Im planning on doing:

Konis front
Tokicos Rear (or Konis depending on price)
Sprint 2.25 Drop Springs

So, here are the questions:

Is the difference between Tokicos and Konis in the rear very drastic? Ride Quality? Handling?

Ive heard that if you lower the car more than 1.5" you might need a camber kit. I would assume since I am going with a 2.25" drop, one would be nessesary. However, I dont like to assume, so can someone please explain.

I went to the Koni website, and noticed that according to their catalog, only Koni Reds are available for our cars. I just want to make sure that those are indeed the Konis everyone is talking about, since it appeared that the yellow sport line were Koni's adjustable ones. (didnt see anything about Reds being adjustable)

I have 16" Niche Bella Rims. The offset of which I believe is 42" (I could be wrong they may be 45", but lets say 42" to be on the safe side) The tires are Toyo FZ4 Proxies 205/45/16. I am planning on going with Sprint 2.25" drop springs. I dont forsee any problems from the information Ive read, but I am far from a suspension expert. Just want to make sure thats all good before I go ahead and order the springs.

Well, thats about all I can think of, feedback would be most helpful

I would recommend getting rear koni's as well, but certainly do get them for the front. As mentioned, you'll be fine with tire size/offset that you mention, same thing for the camber.

P.S. set the koni's rebound adjustment to 1 1/2 turns away from full soft. When you get them pm me and I will walk you threw adjusting them, the factory directions stink. If you wanted a even better sturt choice, like koni yellow, buy a front pair of Bilstien H.D.'s from www.shox.com for $170 or so and have them sent back to Bilstien for revalveing, which would cost $130 extra.

[Project-LXi]

Thanks Jim! I have one question about Revalved Bilstiens. Many of the roads around my house are very bumpy, and that is a huge understatement. I live in "the cuts" so to speak and many of the roads have gaping potholes, or in some cases only partially paved from years of abuse. So would the Bilstiens be able to handle those kinds of roads on a regular basis safely? Or for that matter not unbearably uncomfortable?

[IWLSF]

I know this is kind of out of the blue, but Bilstein makes some pretty heavy duty shit. Not quite the "racer" setup brand, but they sure do specialize with trucks and other big vehicles of the sort. Just based off their name, I'm sure the heavy duty would kick some ass.

[86AccordLxi]

The Bilstein H.D.s only kick ass if you have them revavled. Otherwise, just get Koni.

Alex

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by IWLSF
I know this is kind of out of the blue, but Bilstein makes some pretty heavy duty shit. Not quite the "racer" setup brand, but they sure do specialize with trucks and other big vehicles of the sort. Just based off their name, I'm sure the heavy duty would kick some ass.

Guess what, when I said I rushing into my lowered suspension and got it wrong, guess what sturts I was running:sadwave: You guess it BILSTEIN H.D.'s. And that's with the softest lowering spring made for the 3rd gen accord. I got a full set of Koni's and transformed how the car rode and drove, night and day better. Their's no way, Tokico H.P's are going to be any stiffer than those Bilstiens, most all the complaints I get are over them (and GR-2's).

Now, NOTICE my sig. I decided that I wanted to get really stiff springs, much stiffer than my H&R's. But that ment that I had to get something stiffer than the Koni's. I shipped the Bilsteins I had laying around to be revalved to work with the stiffer springs I was planning on getting. I tested them with the H&R's to see if they had the right stiff. My idea of testing is living with them for 30 days and running them on my foot hill road test, which is 35 miles long. During that 35 miles I is rarely smooth, lots of corners, but with several places where you can get it up to over 100mph.
My car was wrecked before I ever had the chance to get the stiffer springs on the car. Revalved Bilsteins are better than standard Koni's.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by Project-LXi
Thanks Jim! I have one question about Revalved Bilstiens. Many of the roads around my house are very bumpy, and that is a huge understatement. I live in "the cuts" so to speak and many of the roads have gaping potholes, or in some cases only partially paved from years of abuse. So would the Bilstiens be able to handle those kinds of roads on a regular basis safely? Or for that matter not unbearably uncomfortable?

Your welcome, and I'll bet you big money my road are worse then yours:D (I'm serious!)

Well, I'm sure you realize that a lowered car is going to ride stiffer, some more than others. Be very weary of people that talk about their lowered car like this, "yeah, it rides great, just like stock or better than stock". When I talk about my lowered car, I always say it rode like it had a factory honda sport suspension, sorry a lowered car does NOT ride like stock, especially if your running weak struts. Anyways, your looking at springs that are much stiffer than stock. Since your roads are bad, your going to notice this more than the average joe. You will also notice the effects of heavier rims (if running heavier than stock wheels and tires) more and you will notice the bad things weak struts do more. The Koni's should do a good job for you. However my experience with the revalved bilstiens showed me 2 things. Yes the ride was made stiffer (makes sense since they were revalved for really stiff springs). But the other thing I noticed was something I did not exspect. It was as if I was running a better engineered strut, one that did a better job in handling bumps and illregularities(ms). I mean it was like I could feel a differance other than handling, that made them worth the premium price. If you have the money, I whole heartly recommend revalved Bilsteins.

[crwa]

I have orange Koni's on my car... and they work amazingly.... are you guys sure only the reds work???

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by crwa
I have orange Koni's on my car... and they work amazingly.... are you guys sure only the reds work???

Yes.

Only the reds will work. No yellows. Anyways, it's pulling teeth to get them to buy reds, no way they'd spring for yellows.

BTW, orange is the real color of koni reds or the koni special.

Believe me, if I had my way you'd be able to get AGX's and Koni yellows,.......oh well:crying:

[goldyaccord]

Originally posted by Jims 86LXI HB
Your welcome, and I'll bet you big money my road are worse then yours:D (I'm serious!)

Well, I'm sure you realize that a lowered car is going to ride stiffer, some more than others. Be very weary of people that talk about their lowered car like this, "yeah, it rides great, just like stock or better than stock". When I talk about my lowered car, I always say it rode like it had a factory honda sport suspension, sorry a lowered car does NOT ride like stock, especially if your running weak struts. Anyways, your looking at springs that are much stiffer than stock. Since your roads are bad, your going to notice this more than the average joe. You will also notice the effects of heavier rims (if running heavier than stock wheels and tires) more and you will notice the bad things weak struts do more. The Koni's should do a good job for you. However my experience with the revalved bilstiens showed me 2 things. Yes the ride was made stiffer (makes sense since they were revalved for really stiff springs). But the other thing I noticed was something I did not exspect. It was as if I was running a better engineered strut, one that did a better job in handling bumps and illregularities(ms). I mean it was like I could feel a differance other than handling, that made them worth the premium price. If you have the money, I whole heartly recommend revalved Bilsteins.


Bravo! Bravo! *stands up and claps*

Exactly my thoughts Jim.

[Neuspeed007]

:lol u dont need a camber kit.......be nice, but its not needed.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by Neuspeed007
:lol u dont need a camber kit.......be nice, but its not needed.

You missed the bit of info that pointed out that he wants to run a 2.25" drop. If he said 1.5", I'd agree with you. But a 2.25" drop does need camber correction. Now if anyone wants to ignor that fact, so be it, thats his choice. But to say it's not needed, like its fact, that is wrong.