Fixed a/c!!!!!!!

[BigCook]

I would like to thank the people of 3geez for help fixing my a/c. I did not know that if you have no freon that the compressor will not come on. I thought that I needed a new compressor. I added that 134a stuff and now it works perfect. Thanks again.

[ACCORD EX]

do you have an upgrade ! ? that's while you are using 134a stuff ?? if you don't have an upgrade you can mess things up ! because as far as i know our systems ain't compatible with 134a !

MIKE

[shepherd79]

plus our systems use R12 stuff. i don't think you supposed to mix them.

[dj99]

Actually, incompatible and illegal. I know because I spent the $15 to become R12 certified! You can get R12 on ebay for about $20 a can.

[DBMaster]

DJ, wow, is it down to $20 a can? I knew it was starting to go down as fewer and fewer things use it. (Older refrigerators used R12 also)

Even with a "properly" done conversion (definitely NOT an "upgrade") our cars' A/C systems will not perform as well or as long with R134a. I would use Autocool refrigerant long before I would go to R134a.

Anyway, as a "quick and dirty" you can get cool air for a while by mixing refrigerants. Just don;t expect your system to hold up for very long.

[dj99]

$20 is the ebay price for 12 oz of R12. My local parts store wanted $35 or so. There is a big market bringing it over from Mexico (Dupont!) and other hot countries, where it is still manufactured.

[BigCook]

I did not get a upgrade. All I did was drain the system and fill with 134a. The auto store said that this was ok. Now I think I was misinformed. The a/c seems to work fine. Is there something else I should do to my a/c to run 134a? Or is it better to find r12? The repair shop wants $70 a can plus $120 to fill. 134a was only $5 a can. Thanks.

[AccordEpicenter]

Well that depends. You are supposed to change the ac lubricant because they are different with 12 and 134a and ive heard it done on these cars with differing results. The only thing i hear for sure is that the Keihin compressors dont take kindly to 134a and have serious longevity problems. On Nippondenso ive heard most cars hold up well depending on how long the ac was discharged for. My ac was shot so i just removed it.

[Grant2k]

R12 and R134a just have different cooling properties. you aren't supposed to mix them but i hear it won't (shouldn't) cause any big problems. and how did you just put 134 into your car? R12 and R134a use different fittings so did you get the retrofit fittings? that's the only way i can see you doing it. that's all the "upgrade" actually is.

[88Burner]

A lot of cars don't need a new compressor for a retrofit, but the Accord will. Also needed is a receiver/dryer, service valves, pag oil, and the refrigerant.

R12 is actually a better refrigerant, it's just more harmful to the environment than R134a.

[BigCook]

Yes I got the fittings. I also replaced the valve stem because the other one leaked. It does not get as cold as I would like, so I think I will drain some out and add maxicool. I heard this stuff works good.

[Grant2k]

Originally posted by BigCook
Yes I got the fittings. I also replaced the valve stem because the other one leaked. It does not get as cold as I would like, so I think I will drain some out and add maxicool. I heard this stuff works good.
actually you should have evacuated your whole system in the first place.

[wthramann]

How does one become R12 certified? For $15 plus $20 for a can of R12, it might be worthwhile.

[ACCORD EX]

what's the difference between a R134a compressor and R 12 !??

MIKE

[Grant2k]

Originally posted by ACCORD EX
what's the difference between a R134a compressor and R 12 !??

MIKE
pretty much just their cooling properties and R12 is worse for the enviroment like wthramann said. i have a big article that Car Craft did last summer i read where they explained it. i'll have to find it.

[DBMaster]

OK, here is what I know- for what it's worth.

The Keihin compressor is listed on several sites as being unsuitable for use with R134a because it has "Viton" seal material in it. basically this means that the higher pressure and smaller molecule size will end up leaking out of the compressor seals. There isn't really any difference between an R12 and
R134a compressor. It's just that SOME compressors made for use with R12 aren't well suited for R134a.

The next issue is the oil. The mineral oil that came in our systems is miscible (can be carried) by R12 throughout the A/C system. It DOES NOT mix with R134a. This is not in itself harmful as the oil will just settle to the low points in your system. Where this causes you problems is that you will not have enough oil running through the system to keep the compressor properly lubricated and it will eventually seize. Most R134a "retrofit" kits come with a can of PAG oil which will mix with the R134a. If you did not buy a kit at least put in a can of PAG oil.

The other issues all relate to system performance. The 3g Accords do not have the type of condenser that works optimally with R134a. Also, the expansion valve and drier are a bit different. Once again, this may not cause a system failure, but will definitely mean higher temperatures at the vent, especially during our 100 degree summer days in Texas.

As far as certification, just do a web search for "EPA section 608 certification." There are many places where you can study and take the test online (it's not hard). You pay your $15 and get your card in the mail. With that you can buy R12 at parts stores and off eBay.

[ACCORD EX]

thanx guys ! you guys rock ! :)

MIKE

[wthramann]

Thanks DBMaster, but I believe it is a 609 certificate.

[DBMaster]

I could be wrong on the certification number. I did my web search rather hastily. When I got mine it was 1994, just after the change in laws that required me to have one to buy R12. I was living in Corpus Christi and did business with an A/C guy who was the HVAC instructor at Del Mar College. We got to talking and he told me to come on in to watch a video and take the test so I could get a "license" to buy R12.

I can remember buying the stuff for 79 cents a can and using it for a BB machine gun!

I think now if I had to overhaul my system I might just try Autocool instead, but for now I have three cans of R12 on the shelf. I have to add about a half a can a year to my system. As more and more old cars come off the road demand for R12 declines and it will get cheaper. A lot of it was hoarded before the "ban" so it will be available for years to come.