Ls vtec Swap

[Kevin]

Ok, I want to do a swap to my hatch-but i want a fair amount of power for the money!!! I want to do the B18 so i have more power but I want something stronger than the b16!!! Has anyone done this swap with some mild internals and what is your best E.T.!!! I want to able run lower 14s with mild internals-cams, valves, retainers etc!!!:super:

[smufguy]

u cant hit 14s with just the motor swap and cams, though u have a intake and an exhaust with wt/reduction or what not. Juan (Oldschoolswap) hit 16s with is swap without nitrous. So go figure out what u can do with that motor swap of urs and what kinda tuning u need to do to get that low 14s. Turbo is ur better bet, but oh well. Lot of money invloved in a 14s.

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Well for one the swap is expensive.. I would do a cr/vtec better. But is still going to be expensive. Get 4-6k and then worry about it.

[Kevin]

You dont know what you are talking about!!! I have seen a stock Ls Vtec moter in an a integra run 14.6 all day!!! Our cars a lighter!!!SHIT-Im running like low 16s now!! Ther Ls vtec wood be like 170 horse!!! If anyone cant run a low 15 at least needs to learn how to drive!!!

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Originally posted by Kevin
You dont know what you are talking about!!! I have seen a stock Ls Vtec moter in an a integra run 14.6 all day!!! Our cars a lighter!!!SHIT-Im running like low 16s now!! Ther Ls vtec wood be like 170 horse!!! If anyone cant run a low 15 at least needs to learn how to drive!!!

Our cars are only lighter by 30 or so pounds. 170hp? I think you need a lil more research too do..Where did u reach this equation?

[Kevin]

Ok, Im not sure what the horse is but its gota be close if it running about the same as an GSR!!! If you up the compression to GSR specs and have intake header, exhaust, & you can drive than you can easily hit 14s!!! I have seen it!!! You cant tell me that it cant be done-People HAD been telling me that my car wood never be fast-BUt i proved them wrong-especially on the street!!!

[Morpheus]

Only 30 pounds? That's like nothing, are u comparing the first gen teg?

[88LXi68]

Originally posted by Kevin
Ok, Im not sure what the horse is but its gota be close if it running about the same as an GSR!!! If you up the compression to GSR specs and have intake header, exhaust, & you can drive than you can easily hit 14s!!! I have seen it!!! You cant tell me that it cant be done-People HAD been telling me that my car wood never be fast-BUt i proved them wrong-especially on the street!!!

I am doing an LS/Vtec swap as we speak. Read what you wrote again... "gotta be close if it running the same as an GSR". If I were you I would just get a GSR engine. I regret not doing that.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by Kevin
Ok, Im not sure what the horse is but its gota be close if it running about the same as an GSR!!! If you up the compression to GSR specs and have intake header, exhaust, & you can drive than you can easily hit 14s!!! I have seen it!!! You cant tell me that it cant be done-People HAD been telling me that my car wood never be fast-BUt i proved them wrong-especially on the street!!!

1994 Acura Integra GSR 0-60mph 7.1sec 1/4mile 15.5sec stock.

Question I have is how much power gain has to be made to drop 1 sec off the 1/4mile. I'm doubting H/I/E will drop it a second.

[wickedaccord]

LSVTEC alone WILL NOT give u 170 to the wheels. im making 185whp.. wat makes u think an lsvtec would even do 170. think about my 185whp with all the set up i have. lsvtec is a good set up.. but not for daily drivers who want to have a reliable motor. as of now my car isnt even running. im always burning stupid map sensors. and i suggest u guys do an obd1 map sensor conversion if ur gonna do a gsr swap or b16. yes, a gsr will do high 14's with i/h/e.. but that's with cheaters on (drag radials as we call it here in so cal) a gsr with i/h/e will run quickest 15.1 and keep it no lower than 15.4. hell ive even see gsr's with cai do 15.7. im speaking street cars, not motor trend drivers or any professional drivers. but my point is, an lsvtec ALONE WILL NOT do 170whp unless is somewat built internally.
PEACE

:bow: jon

[Coroncho80]

Originally posted by ‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›
170hp? I think you need a lil more research too do..Where did u reach this equation?


You told me the same thing Matt. Now, please tell us what is the accurate HP number for a LS/Vtec engine. It seems that you have done the "Research!", so please tell us. What is the right amount of HP that this engine will produce.


Also, it would be nice to know the right amount of Torque.


Thanks matt, you are so smart!

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Originally posted by Coroncho80
You told me the same thing Matt. Now, please tell us what is the accurate HP number for a LS/Vtec engine. It seems that you have done the "Research!", so please tell us. What is the right amount of HP that this engine will produce.


Also, it would be nice to know the right amount of Torque.


Thanks matt, you are so smart!

READ THIS:


Originally posted by wickedaccord
LSVTEC alone WILL NOT give u 170 to the wheels. im making 185whp.. wat makes u think an lsvtec would even do 170. think about my 185whp with all the set up i have. lsvtec is a good set up.. but not for daily drivers who want to have a reliable motor. as of now my car isnt even running. im always burning stupid map sensors. and i suggest u guys do an obd1 map sensor conversion if ur gonna do a gsr swap or b16. yes, a gsr will do high 14's with i/h/e.. but that's with cheaters on (drag radials as we call it here in so cal) a gsr with i/h/e will run quickest 15.1 and keep it no lower than 15.4. hell ive even see gsr's with cai do 15.7. im speaking street cars, not motor trend drivers or any professional drivers. but my point is, an lsvtec ALONE WILL NOT do 170whp unless is somewat built internally.
PEACE

jon[/b]

[Kevin]

I dont care about horse specs. All i know is what i have seen and continue to see!!! The driver make the biggest thing!! This kid has an civic hatch with a B16 and sum other and his best time he could get out of it was a 14.8-my friend ran a 14.3 with it!!! Dont tell that shit cant be done-especially when i have the proof that it actually did happen!!!

[wickedaccord]

dont tell me!! that a b16 with i/h/e will do 14.3. and u claim to have proof?? u know wat.. ill have my friend scan sport compacts cars article on that PROJECT CIVIC HATCHBACK and PROVE U WRONG that a b16 with "SUM" mods will NOT do 14.3. the only way i see a b16 hatch doing this is, stripped and gutted interior, and on nitto 555 drags. otherwise.. there's no way it will do this. ive seen too many civics with b16's at the track with i/h/e in a hatch doing only low 15's on street tires. ill try an get the article in as soon as i can find it.. from wat i see.. i/h/e on a b16 in a hatch only did 151hp and 107lbs tq from the pages of project civic. and if some of u guys read the page., it's the blue civic hatch

:bow: jon

[wickedaccord]

got it

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0204scc_civicengine/

read it.. ull see that their civic with a minimal of i/h/e did 14.8. very impressive yes! but ur not going to tell me some street guy is going to send that 14.8 to 14.3!? r u sure it wasnt on a red light??

:bow: jon

[BensAccordLxi]

I have a friend who builds drag Civics. He has a built Civic Type-R with a Turbo and only runs low 13's with 3lbs of boost.. My friend Aaron had a Del Sol with a B16a2. he had intake, header, exhaust, ACT clutch, light weight flywheel, GSR tranny, and adjustable cam gears and could only manage mid to low 14's. This guy here where I live had a completely built LS/Vtec and was only running mid to low 13's. The LS/Vtech doesn't make much power unless you build it up. If you use OEM parts it doesn't have much more than a b16a1. The benifit of the LS/Vtec is the torque from the 1.8lt block.

[Coroncho80]

Ok, here is what I found. Let me know what yall think!







LS/VTEC Conversion.

For the LS/VTEC you'll need the following:
1. b16a/b18c/b17 head, cams, head bolts, cam seals, and ECU.
Most people get the b16 head 'cause it's way cheaper and easier to find. the gsr combustion chamber is smaller yielding a higher CR and more hp (slightly). The best reason to use the b16a head is you can use Integra typeR (ITR) intake manifold with it, shown in figure1. As you can see, the TypeR manifold has much shorter/fatter runners than that of the b18a.






2. If you get a b16 head, you need a b16 intake manifold. Same goes for the other: you'll need the respective intake manifolds.
3. You'll also need a 92+ b16a fuel rail or 92+ Integra one if you use the ITR manifold.
4. You can use your (teg) distributor but you have to chop off one of the legs to make it fit (the one that gets in the way of the VTEC solenoid.).
5. You need to tap and seal an oil-line on the back distributor side of the head (shown below) and bore out two of the dowel pin holes on your new head. The dowel pins on the b18a/b are in the Back but the ones on the VTEC heads are on the Front so you need to enlarge the ones on the back of the head to 14mm to match your block.



6. You'll have to get a steel braided oil line, fittings, and a T joint to run the oil from the block (oil press. sender hole) to the VTEC Solenoid.
7. You need a B18a/b head gasket and an intake manifold gasket that corresponds to your manifold. not to mention a VTEC valve cover and VTEC sparkplug wires.
8. You can use your b18a/bTB, but a gsr/ITR one is recommended due to their superior flow characteristics.
9. Also, your upper radiator hose will be about 2" too short. You'll need to get a universal hose from pep boys ($10).
10. Since the most common b16a heads come from 89-91 b16a's, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND getting better/new Valve springs because after a decade or so they become soft and that's not good at all! trust me! :D



You should expect to pay the following:
b16a head: $300-350 USED
head bolts(10) $60 NEW
intake man $250 NEW
cams around $250 each NEW
Ecu $300
head gasket: $50 NEW
fuel rail $50 used
wires: $70
spark plugs: $10
valve cover $180 NEW or $50 USED
cam seals $15
steal braided oil line: $20-50
fittings: $10

I think that's it. this comes to $1300-1700 depending on what kinda deals you get. Expect not to rev more than 8K* without problems and 185-195hp. If you get b16a2 pistons, properly tuned you should have about 190-200 hp to the flywheel. This is more than enough to take out your local G3 GS-R! That's all I can think of.

*Disclaimer: REV AT YOUR OWN RISK!!! Although, if built properly, this can be a very reliable and powerful setup, you can serious jack-up your motor if you don't take the proper precautions. Examples of this would be assuming that 10yr old springs or rod bolts are as strong as new.

[Kevin]

YES!! Thank you for that wonderful information!!! Everyone is like that moter sux and that it is so expensive to do!!! RIGHT!!! You can all kiss my ass now!!!!!

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Originally posted by Kevin
YES!! Thank you for that wonderful information!!! Everyone is like that moter sux and that it is so expensive to do!!! RIGHT!!! You can all kiss my ass now!!!!!

Well That's about $1400 dollars.. Now you need the add money your going to need to buy to swap the engine into an Accord.. That's where it gets expensive.. So You can start kissing ass now.. Just not mine.. DO ur research first.. :wave:

[smufguy]

kevin, why that 'kiss my ass now' attitude bro??:huh:

[pric]

Originally posted by wickedaccord
LSVTEC alone WILL NOT give u 170 to the wheels. im making 185whp.. wat makes u think an lsvtec would even do 170. think about my 185whp with all the set up i have. lsvtec is a good set up.. but not for daily drivers who want to have a reliable motor. as of now my car isnt even running. im always burning stupid map sensors. and i suggest u guys do an obd1 map sensor conversion if ur gonna do a gsr swap or b16. yes, a gsr will do high 14's with i/h/e.. but that's with cheaters on (drag radials as we call it here in so cal) a gsr with i/h/e will run quickest 15.1 and keep it no lower than 15.4. hell ive even see gsr's with cai do 15.7. im speaking street cars, not motor trend drivers or any professional drivers. but my point is, an lsvtec ALONE WILL NOT do 170whp unless is somewat built internally.
PEACE

:bow: jon

Hmm.... I have seen many GSR's run high 14's in the 1/4 on street tires. Where are you racing at denver? My 1992 civic hb si with the stock motor D16Z6 125 hp with I/H/E and 260k miles on it ran a 15.55 @ 87.76 mph in the 1/4 with street tires and full interior. Road and Track got a 16.5 in the 1/4 when it was new. I work with a guy who own's a 94 4dr civic with a B18C I/H/E and full interior on street tires and he's about 280lbs. not to mention he has a system in it ran a 14.8 in the 1/4 mile.


Ok, I want to do a swap to my hatch-but i want a fair amount of power for the money!!! I want to do the B18 so i have more power but I want something stronger than the b16!!! Has anyone done this swap with some mild internals and what is your best E.T.!!! I want to able run lower 14s with mild internals-cams, valves, retainers etc!!!

If you want low 14's out of your accord instead of doing the swap and spending all that money for just mounts. Build the A20A up you could do 14's with a little work. Dhcarss has a 65 shot of N2O a I/H/E and he is running 9.7 in the 1/8 which should be close to 15 flat in the 1/4 with a little more work like head work cam and injectors TB bump up the N2O he will be in the 14's.

[smufguy]

or u could be like Jhonny-o running 11.9ss :D

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Originally posted by smufguy
or u could be like Jhonny-o running 11.9ss :D

Not the same.. Johnny's car is a full dragster!!... no fun..

[Coroncho80]

Originally posted by Coroncho80
Expect not to rev more than 8K* without problems and 185-195hp. If you get b16a2 pistons, properly tuned you should have about 190-200 hp to the flywheel. This is more than enough to take out your local G3 GS-R!



Did you read this matt!? what do you think about this? and lets be serious here for a min. ;)

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Originally posted by Coroncho80
Did you read this matt!? what do you think about this? and lets be serious here for a min. ;)

Sounds good! Wont be beat my engine.. I guess u have not taken a look at my last thread..

[Kevin]

Dude Bc last week everyone got in my face saying all this shit about how wrong i was and made it seem like i was an idiot for even thinking of doing this swap!!! Yes-you are right that is ONLY $1400 add another 1000 and you have a kick ass moter-the GSR setup is 3500!!! That is a hell of a lot more than the Ls vtec!!! Do the math-Its right there!!!!

[wickedaccord]

god damn it... i hate it when ppl change stories and the subjects... anyhow! nobody said u were wrong about an lsvtec motor being a good set up. i have friends that will do it, but wat i said was. u r WRONG about the lsvtec producing 170hp without internals. that's rediculous! that's all im saying., i have proof with my hp at the last 3geez meet also. and u can say i dont know wat im talking about.. hell ill take pics of the kinda shit i work on and post em up for u to see that i RAPE THE TAIL PIPES OF CIVICS ALL THE TIME! HAHA!!

jon

[Kevin]

All you hafta change is the pistons-or just stick a B16 head on which will bump the compression up more than the GSR head wood!!!!!

[wickedaccord]

wtf?? dude u dont know jack shit about the difference in the pr3 head and p72 heads at all?? do u even know wat ur talking about!? a stock typeR piston will do 11.1 compression on a GSR head.. a stock typeR piston on a b16 head will either stay stock or bump to 10.3 compression. lets jus say this, u dont have jack shit motor swap for ur own car. until then, stop talking about how this can do that an this is good about motor swaps until u get ur shit done. i spent 8k on my swap total.. imma have to spend another 1500 jus to redo the whole block with benson sleeves, rods, overbore, and pistons. wat makes u think half the guys here will even do that to an lsvtec motor?? i wouldnt! cuz i want reliability.. lsvtec isnt for everyone! stop saying stuff like ur friends done this with his hatch when ive seen no proof of it, that'll only confuse some people about lsvtec. ive already proven wat a civic does with a b16 motor off of sport compact themselves. and if hp dont mean shit, then how the hell does ur car run??

sure it's a good set up for power.. so wat, ive seen many of my friends crvtec motors make power up to 9k rpm! yea, it's impressive.. so.. r u going to have the money to maintain that motor?? or replace the rings everytime u fry em? r u going to take the time urself to replace the valves u fried for not noticing the pinging action that goes on when u rev to 9k? it's these kinds of things y a lot of ppl do not care cuz like myself, they want reliability. even with my set up, ill be honest. it's a pain to maintain it. i check it 4 times a week jus to make sure im not burning oil, nothing have blown, no sensors has fried, no leakage, no busted hoses, and especially if the mounts r holding up.

so when u get ur lsvtec to make 170whp at 8200rpm in ur car atleast.. come post in here and ill clap for u. otherwise, stop posting false statements about lsvtec., it will confuse a lot of ppl. atleast give the correct info. about these kinds of swap and not jus say watever from ur observations. imma qoute wat everyone here always says and have said to me before.. USE THE SEARCH!
PEACE!

:bow: jon

[Kevin]

If you have an Ls Block with a B16 head the compression will be higher than if you used a B18 Vtec head on a Ls block!! The B16 has a smaller compression chamber so compression is going to go up!!!!

[wickedaccord]

haha!! u r totally wrong about the b16 head! anyone here who knows about this will tell u the does not have a small combustion chamber. dude, im not even gonna waste my time with a fool who doesnt know wat he's talking about and still wont listen to reason. have fun with ur swap.. hahaha!!! and who's ever heard of using a field vtec controller on the a20 motor?? hahaha!! i shouldve read that from the beginning., that way i wouldnt have wasted so much time and wouldnt have posted so much... haha!

:bow: jon

[Kevin]

your a fucking moron!! You use to adjust the fucking fuel MAPS!!! Its more than a VTEC controller!!! Well hell ill give a call when my moter is done and we will see who is so much smarter!!!!

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Originally posted by Kevin
your a fucking moron!! You use to adjust the fucking fuel MAPS!!! Its more than a VTEC controller!!! Well hell ill give a call when my moter is done and we will see who is so much smarter!!!!

Just get it done ALREADY..

[wickedaccord]

wow! im a moron for not knowing that U r using a FIELD VTEC controller for an a20 motor! wow how smart was that.. i guess u mustve thought the vtec wording would add an extra 20hp right? gosh how stupid am i! i shouldve known! that u were using it for fuel mapping instead of jus buying an APEX SAFC! but yea, the vtec wording on it will add an extra 20hp so u r right.. yea, call me when u get ur motor done. i wanna see it break down haha! that's it for me, this is rediculous.. haha! talk is cheap....

"Just get it done ALREADY.. "

:bow: jon

[goldyaccord]

Kevin... just cool it man, You dont need to scream on here.

Vtec controllers are used mainly to change the Vtec points (yes in a way it's modding the fuel map) but honestly what are you goin to gain with that?

I also Suggest you listen to Jon. He knows quite abit here. If I were you, i'd shut my mouth and let the swap do the talking that is, if your trying to prove something. :)

truce guys?

[smufguy]

yo Kevin, Dont take this the wrong way buddy. BUt ppl like you have been here bad mouthed and accomplished nothing. IF u know what ur doing and wanna prove him wrong, get it done and then we will see how it goes. But instead, if u wanna call names and lead this thread nowhere, well u will be busted outta here for improper conduct my friend. Dont think mods dont have eyes on this thread. Its a waste of time just arguing about anything for that matter so ease up guys.

[89NinjaAccordLX]

The B18 ls motor that I have came stock with 143hp. It wouldn't be shocking to have more than 170hp with a VTEC head on there. If VTEC doesn't give you at LEAST 30hp then I wouldn't see the real benefit of having it. Although, I know some peeps here at the beach with LS motors in their civics that can definately give VTEC a run for their money. Yes, I am also doing an LS/VTEC swap but am building it considerably internally.
related but unrelated
My 89 manual carbureted LX Accord with an Accel coil, bodykit, and considerable blowby can beat an 89 manual fuel injected Accord SE-i. Ask jigga89Sei. Even if he actually had beaten me either of the times we raced, it wouldn't have been by that much. With a handicap of about 30hp from the factory via carburetion, you tell me why my busted ass oil leaking bad piston ringed Accord beats most other stock ones out there... LX, LX-i, SE-i... Engines are very particular... I don't think any mathematic equation should be the final test of a car's horsepower because not every engine will react the same.

[wickedaccord]

Originally posted by 89NinjaAccordLX
The B18 ls motor that I have came stock with 143hp. It wouldn't be shocking to have more than 170hp with a VTEC head on there. If VTEC doesn't give you at LEAST 30hp then I wouldn't see the real benefit of having it. Although, I know some peeps here at the beach with LS motors in their civics that can definately give VTEC a run for their money. Yes, I am also doing an LS/VTEC swap but am building it considerably internally.
related but unrelated
My 89 manual carbureted LX Accord with an Accel coil, bodykit, and considerable blowby can beat an 89 manual fuel injected Accord SE-i. Ask jigga89Sei. Even if he actually had beaten me either of the times we raced, it wouldn't have been by that much. With a handicap of about 30hp from the factory via carburetion, you tell me why my busted ass oil leaking bad piston ringed Accord beats most other stock ones out there... LX, LX-i, SE-i... Engines are very particular... I don't think any mathematic equation should be the final test of a car's horsepower because not every engine will react the same.

do not think a vtec head will add 30hp like it will on a block that is meant for vtec. u should already know, that u cannot alternate a block that isnt meant for vtec so it will not get the actual 30hp. even drilling and tapping the oil lines, u will not get 30hp. it's still not the same. those extra tapping and oil lines r only there to supply an extra supply of oil. compared to an actual vtec block, it will never be the same. anyone who works on motors and does lsvtec will say the same. and my point from the beginning was, AN LSVTEC ALONE WILL NOT GIVE U 170HP. it's not hard to think about it, everyone knows that cams r the one thing that will give u hp.. and ur gonna tell me STOCK cams will do 170hp? jus becuz it's lsvtec? mathematically?? dude it's only logic. im not shittin u, im jus saying wat i know and have seen. ofcourse in the end, when u FULLY build the lsvtec vs a fully built GSR motor.. the lsvtec will win.. but which motor will last longer?? that's wat u have to look at. and ive said this before, if ur gonna fully built ur lsvtec.. and u have money to whipe ur ass with. GO FOR IT! i never said dont do it. read my posts.. all i said was. lsvtec isnt for all ppl who want a reliable motor and it will not give u 170hp at the wheels in general. ive seen plenty of lsvtec motors blow becuz it wasnt built properly.. and reved waaay too high. and u r definately right about an engines hp. ive seen gsr's stock do 145 becuz it wasnt properly broken in. ok, to sum everything up..

IM NOT SHITTIN ON U, EVERYONE HAS THEIR FAVORITE FLAVORS. THAT'S Y BASKIN ROBINS HAS 31 FLAVORS
PEACE

:bow: jon

[Kevin]

Ok, Those of us building Ls/Vtec moters will just hafta prove what we know!! No body can anyone that it cant be done-Look @ my car-all of freinds tell me to get a civic or something because it wont fast!!! A ran against a few accords a civics and gave them a run for there money-Considering how many miles(235000) and how a have just afew bolt ons it is quick!!!! Nobody tells me it cant be fast anymore-cause they for an old ass accord it can hold it its own!!!!

[wickedaccord]

Originally posted by Kevin
You dont know what you are talking about!!! I have seen a stock Ls Vtec moter in an a integra run 14.6 all day!!! Our cars a lighter!!!SHIT-Im running like low 16s now!! Ther Ls vtec wood be like 170 horse!!! If anyone cant run a low 15 at least needs to learn how to drive!!!

who said ur car wont be fast!? dude ur jus totally going off topic there. the subject of the thread was wat u said.. U saying SOMEONE dont know wat they're talking about which was SMURFGUY.. wtf?? from wat i can see, u jus keep going off topic. serious guy.. u think i dont know wats up when im already running an 11.1 compression with stock typeR pistons right now.. how can u even say a b16 head will bump the compression higher when i already done it with a gsr head?? especially when i have the dyno to prove my set up and there were plenty at a SOCAL 3geez meet to see my dyno results at 185whp with all my setup. get it straight...

:bow: jon

[Jims 86LXI HB]

:werd: Jezz, can someone lock this thread

[wickedaccord]

SERIOUS!!