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View Full Version : Can't get the flat head screw out...help



wthramann
04-22-2003, 04:38 PM
Thought I would start the brake rotor replacement today. I knew the challenge would be removing the flat head screws which hold the disc to the hub. I got 3 out of 4 out using an impact tool. I got frustrated and took out my impact gun and put the phillips bit on it and it just spun on the screw. So now the head is rounded. Looking at the other screws the rust is limited to the very end of the screw but I do not see how I can access the back of the hub to oil it. Any suggestions?

Grant2k
04-22-2003, 05:32 PM
well if you've ruined the head then you're gonna need a screw extractor. i would start soking the others in WD-40 now.

shepherd79
04-22-2003, 05:35 PM
go to sears and get screw removal kit.
i don't know how much it cost.

PhydeauX
04-22-2003, 05:52 PM
Those sears screw out kits (the ones that fit the electric screw drivers) don't do much good on stuck in bolts. EZ-outs work a bit better, but they have a tendancy to break. Those screws are useless, they're only put there to keep the disks on the car as it goes down the assembly line at the factory (or so it's be rumored to me anyway). Just drill the head off it and forget about it.

andy

2old_honda
04-22-2003, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by PhydeauX
Those sears screw out kits (the ones that fit the electric screw drivers) don't do much good on stuck in bolts. EZ-outs work a bit better, but they have a tendancy to break. Those screws are useless, they're only put there to keep the disks on the car as it goes down the assembly line at the factory (or so it's be rumored to me anyway). Just drill the head off it and forget about it.

andy

Andy is right. A lot of cars dont have anything holding the rotors on.

AccordEpicenter
04-22-2003, 08:16 PM
i have a better idea. If you have a big enough hammer you can bust the fucking brake disk right off, they crack. Its easier then it sounds, trust me. Then you have like a 1/3" of screw sticking out the hole that you can get like a vise grip on or somthing to bust it out. Then get new screws...

Grant2k
04-22-2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by AccordEpicenter
i have a better idea. If you have a big enough hammer you can bust the fucking brake disk right off, they crack. Its easier then it sounds, trust me. Then you have like a 1/3" of screw sticking out the hole that you can get like a vise grip on or somthing to bust it out. Then get new screws...
i'd stick to drilling the heads off.

anchovies
04-22-2003, 10:41 PM
Same thing happened to me few years ago. I just stick an electric drill in there and grinded the screw off.
You might want to try an impact wrench first.

wthramann
04-23-2003, 05:30 AM
Thanks everyone. I'll wait until I get the discs to try again. I was able to get the other three screws out and loosen the brake caliper supports easily.

ACCORD EX
04-23-2003, 09:03 AM
listen to this one !
take a really flat screw driver ! point it at the end of the round head of the screw with an angle in the direction of the unscrewing ! and bang with a hammer !
look below for the pic ! ( not good at paint ! :D )

1- HAMMER
2- FLAT SCREW DRIVER
3- BOLT HEAD !

Be sure to make a groove for teh flat screw driver so you can turn with it !

good luck !


MIKE

markmdz89hatch
04-23-2003, 10:33 AM
Mike's right. That's a good trick. I used that very same technique on the break-off bolts that they use on the ignition switch. Worked like a charm.

But I gotta agree with Andy on this one too. I bought new (j/y) knuckles w/hubs, and one of the hubs had that screw broken off into it. I took it to the local mechanic that specializes in Honda, and he told me to go home and just slap the rotor on it, and not to worry about that screw anymore. I did, and have since put a few hundred miles on the car, and no problems to date with it.

markmdz89hatch
04-23-2003, 10:36 AM
What worked for me with removing those screws even better then the impact driver was a regular socket.

Just with the tools I had I concocted this little deal, a #3 Phillips bit, a 1/4" SAE socket, a 3/8-1/4 adapter, and a 3/8 ratchet. Put it all together, put a dumpload of pressure on the head of the ratchet and loosen/tighten away. No stripping of bolt heads, and less impact then the impact driver, and more leverage to boot.

wthramann
04-23-2003, 02:49 PM
Thanks for the pic Mike. I'd hate to ruin a screwdriver for this and I like the idea of drilling off the head.
I will remember Mark's idea next time but the dumpload of pressure is the difficulty. Now that the head is nearly stripped I doubt I could use the ratchet method.
BTW do those screws fit in the extra holes on the disc to help pop the disc off?

Grant2k
04-23-2003, 03:01 PM
you won't ruin the screwdriver doing that. if you are worried about that use a flathead punch. i've used a punch like that a thousand times and it works great and you only ruin the screw.

with Mark's idea you can get a ton of pressure really easy. putting a pipe on the end of your socket will give you lots of pressure with minimal effort. the draw back of that is you have to put pressure on it laterally to keep the flat head from popping out of the slot on the screw.

markmdz89hatch
04-23-2003, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by wthramann
Thanks for the pic Mike. I'd hate to ruin a screwdriver for this and I like the idea of drilling off the head.
I will remember Mark's idea next time but the dumpload of pressure is the difficulty. Now that the head is nearly stripped I doubt I could use the ratchet method.
BTW do those screws fit in the extra holes on the disc to help pop the disc off?

Yeah, I found that those other two threaded holes in the rotor work great to just screw in the screws that you just took off, and it'll pop the rotor off the hub if it's seized up on it. Yeah Grant is right, you don't really need to apply the ton of pressure (I was wrong with what I said earlier) Just make sure you have pressure on the head of the ratchet so you can get that straight-on pressure so as not to strip the threads. What I'm confused about is that you said it was a flat head screw. With all 4 3G's I own(ed), I've always had phillips head screws. Either way, the most important thing I've found is the right size screw driver head is the most important. A #2 will strip that screw faster then imaginable, a #3 will almost never strip it if you have that straight-on pressure.

wthramann
04-23-2003, 06:22 PM
It is the lateral pressure on the top of the ratchet that I am thinking about. I stripped the screw with the torque drill because I was unable to apply enough lateral pressure. I did use a #3 Phillips bit. While it certainly has a Phillips head the flat screw looks like a funnel from the side. Majestic has an obscure picture of it at http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=Accord&catcgry2=1988&catcgry3=2DR+LXI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=FRONT+KNUCKLE-BRAKE+DISK
item number 32

Grant2k
04-23-2003, 06:26 PM
just drill it.

ACCORD EX
04-24-2003, 03:41 AM
well i did it my way several times and i reused the same screw too ! :D it will be a little bit hard teh first time but then you will be a pro in doing it !

MIKE

wthramann
04-24-2003, 05:03 PM
I will give it a try Mike but I am not buying any tools. How do you make the slot for the screw driver in the flathead screw? It is a little recessed from the surface of the rotor so I cannot use a hacksaw. I do not own a metal chisel and I have learned the hard way that wood chisels are for wood only.

Grant2k
04-24-2003, 05:58 PM
i've made slots for screw drivers with a dremel. once you have a groove you can also use an impact driver, i forgot to mention that option. one you use with a hammer though, not an automatic imapact gun.

ACCORD EX
04-25-2003, 12:36 AM
a strong end flate screw driver ( not a very big one though ) , once you make a groove , you 've done the most difficult part in the process !

MIKE

ACCORD EX
04-25-2003, 12:37 AM
remember to create the groove as near to the edge of the screw head as possible !

good luck !

MIKE

wthramann
04-25-2003, 05:28 AM
Thanks Mike.
Grant, I was using an impact tool with a sledge hammer.

Grant2k
04-25-2003, 05:58 AM
Originally posted by wthramann
Thanks Mike.
Grant, I was using an impact tool with a sledge hammer.
hahaha oops, i forgot. i reread it and see that now. my bad.

wthramann
04-26-2003, 07:03 PM
Well Mike got to hand it to you. I was able to get the flat head screw off using your method. I think I will be able to file the pry bar back into shape and the old screwdriver is for opening paint cans, etc. BTW my masonary bit was ineffective at drilling the head off. According to the UPS tracking my discs should be here Monday so maybe Tuesday I'll be able to take a crack at it. The disc thickness at the outer edge was only 18 mm and I have never refinished them. Wow.

Question do I need to take the caliper off the bracket before taking the bracket off or can I just leave it on the bracket?

ACCORD EX
04-27-2003, 12:38 AM
well i am glad it went well ! ( you are PRO now ! :D )

well i don't exactly remember , but i don't think you need to get the caliper out to put teh discs in ! ( teh caliper is mounted to the hub ! )

i think all you need to do is remove the lower bolt and raise the caliper up ! ( JUST like changing brake pads )

i hope some one would confirm that ! :)

MIKE

markmdz89hatch
04-29-2003, 07:24 AM
Actually he's got the bigger brakes, with the differenct calipers. (Side note: Dude, I just realized that you are in CT also.) Anyway, you should be able to just pop the bracket along with the calipers all at the same time. (I also don't remember all that well, but I'm pretty sure you can.) Just break out that trusty 'ol 17mm socket and go to town on those two bracket bolts.

wthramann
04-29-2003, 11:54 AM
Any tips for getting the disc off the hub would be appreciated. I have tried using the two bolt holes (M8 X 1.25) which resulted in cracking the disc in a T pattern on both sides. I also tried using a pry bar on the inner lip and banging it with a slege hammer. I am now looking for a wheel puller that has a 11 inch grasp (the one I have is only 6 inches). Mark is correct I lifted up the caliper to get the pads out and then removed its support. The 17mm bolts were no problem.

ACCORD EX
04-30-2003, 11:16 AM
well thanks for correcting me Mark !
when disks are frozen the hit them at the side ( if i won't use them again ) and hit the at the edge of the hub of i am gonna use them again ! :D man i just LOVE working with a hammer don't i ! :D

MIKE

wthramann
04-30-2003, 11:51 AM
I wish I did. I am afraid of damaging the hub or bearing. Plus if I can only get it off part way only how am I supposed to drive to the dealership? I know, very slowly. Mike can you draw where you hit? If the rotor were a wide brim hat with an inner lip I have been hitting it outward on the lip/ledge.

ACCORD EX
04-30-2003, 12:16 PM
location 1 if you don't use the disc again , if you use it try location 2 first ( putting a piece of cloth where you hit ) hit strong one hit at a time ! ) , location 1 also using a cloth !

good luck !



MIKE

wthramann
05-01-2003, 05:24 AM
Luv the drawing. So I am to hit it on the side? What is the reason for the cloth? Thanks.

ACCORD EX
05-02-2003, 11:23 AM
luv the drawing ! ?? :D :D

anyway the cloth is to prevent damage to the discs ! ( if you gonno reuse them ) but i prefer to use it anyway, makes the hit more gentle ! :D

MIKE

wthramann
05-02-2003, 01:41 PM
Thanks. I will not reuse them, in fact, I am not willing to drive the car in its present state.

wthramann
05-03-2003, 06:58 PM
Eureka! Finally got the old brake disc off. I had to hit it from behind on the disc face. I tried to use a block of wood but did not have any luck so I resorted to the cloth as Mike suggested. Test drive with no shudder although the big test is on the local mountain. Yes I know about being gentle for the first 124 miles (200 Km). Now I have to get up the nerve to do the right side.

ACCORD EX
05-03-2003, 11:09 PM
well glad i could help ! and yes drive genlty in there break in period !

MIKE