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View Full Version : Axle question (read before flaming) H22A->88LX



rick_spiff
04-30-2003, 01:02 PM
H22A JDM into 1988 Accord LX.

The engine comparment has been modified and engine mounts fabricated. I'm away from the car for at least a week and didn't measure the axle stuff. I called driveshaftshop.com and they quoted 400~700 bucks depending on what they would have to build in order to make a working pair of axles for this beast.

Question: Is there anyplace cheaper/closer?

Everything else is coming together just fine (even the EFI conversion), I just don't wanna pay 600 damn bucks for axles. Any help U can give would be appreciated.

p.s. Questions about the swap welcome, but on e-mail only... no need to crowd the thread.

p.p.s. Picks when I decide to plug in my scanner and fight with it's drivers!

rick_spiffNOSPAMMING,BABYyahoo.com

carotman
04-30-2003, 02:21 PM
Well, I'm glad you worked out the engine mount problem!!!!

You'd better show us pictures of everything :)

As for axles, you need 2 identical axles (if the engine is positioned correctly, which it should be) The H22A uses equal length axles.

The axles could even be similar to a H22A swap in a Civic. I would really check that first.

rick_spiff
04-30-2003, 02:43 PM
I know there's a guy in town who's done the H22A swap into a '95 Civic, but he swears up and down the hubs use larger nuts than my car. I will check with him again.

The engine mount problem is relatively easy to take care of if you're an engineer and have a certified welder around with a full shop and plenty of time and will work for practically nothing. :D

I know that the '88 axles will physically fit with the engine in there properly, but they will last... maybe one day? I need a more permanent solution.

Someone suggested getting a pair of right hand axles for my car and splicing one onto the intermed. shaft and use the other in place of the Prelude shaft.

I have both pairs of axles just laying on the shop floor right now. The right side one I have is worn to dust, but....

And those pics, ah yes. :)

carotman
04-30-2003, 02:57 PM
The Accord Axles will last long enough. People use Integra or Civic axles for 200Hp swaps so the Accords one would fit.

If the Civic uses a larger spline to go in the hub, you could have one custom made with a different outer joint (it shouldn't cost 600$)

and you're right, use 2 right side axles to have equal length ones.
(just like the B20A swap)

If the stock axles work (like you mentionned), I would just use them for now and see how long they last... they are really cheap at the boneyard :)

rick_spiff
05-01-2003, 07:06 AM
Well, I just bought an '89 SE-i for my fiance. She had this p.o.s. Grand Am... long story. So, it looks like I'll trying the 'frankenaxle' route whether I like it or not.

Once I get that squared away and she's running good, then I've gotta hunt down a 300ZX Turbo and nab it's T3....

bobafett
05-01-2003, 07:26 AM
nice. i do want proof but i want to belive this guy!

Coroncho80
05-01-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by bobafett
nice. i do want proof but i want to belive this guy!


Same here ............ What to think, what to think ............. Shit my head hurts now! :mad:

Tref_LXI
05-01-2003, 03:04 PM
well when its done, take a few pictures with you holding banana. That way we all know your not a bs'er.

goldyaccord
05-01-2003, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by Tref_LXI
well when its done, take a few pictures with you holding banana. That way we all know your not a bs'er.

only a banana? how about afew oranges and some hotties :D

Vanilla Sky
05-10-2003, 11:11 AM
hmm... no reply... you guys wanna call this another fake?

rick_spiff
05-12-2003, 06:51 AM
Away for a bit fixing the gf's car and taking on a long trip.

UPDATE: I checked the axles. I wish to measure them again, so don't consider this written in stone, but the Accord axles WILL mate up to the Prelude axles at the inner CV joint.

Once you pull off the boot, just slide the long axle piece out and put in the Accord axle. Now, I still need to find one of the right length and hope it mates up properly too.

Pics aren't back from the developers yet. The pics waiting to be scanned in show the H22A while it's in the front clip, and a crappy picture of the dash (right hand drive, baby...). The next roll has the Accord, stripped, including the motor, and the axles.

And no, I don't have a digital camera--not yet.

rick_spiff
05-12-2003, 06:57 AM
btw, the SE-i has a curious whining noise in 5th gear. Kinda like metal grinding, but pretty high piched. Reverse also seems a little shakey. Nothing else is wrong with the car. Anyone have an idea of what this might be? I guessing a shifting fork gone awry.

In any case, I have a spare tranny from the A20A1 engine off of my '88 LX. This should swap right into an '89 SE-i, right?

88LXi68
05-12-2003, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by rick_spiff
btw, the SE-i has a curious whining noise in 5th gear. Kinda like metal grinding, but pretty high piched. Reverse also seems a little shakey. Nothing else is wrong with the car. Anyone have an idea of what this might be? I guessing a shifting fork gone awry.

In any case, I have a spare tranny from the A20A1 engine off of my '88 LX. This should swap right into an '89 SE-i, right?

first check and replace the fluid in the tranny. 5th gear sits higher than the rest so if there isnt enough fluid it will burn right up. Secondly, the A20A1 carbed trannies do fit but they have different gearing (better highway gearing). Just letting you know that, but it will fit no problem.

OldSchoolSwap
05-12-2003, 10:19 AM
Couple questions :)

-What are you planing on doing for the Hydro tranny on the H22? (remember, we have cable)

-What are you planing with wiring and OBD compatability?

I'd hate to be you in this situation :D
let me know.

rick_spiff
05-12-2003, 01:25 PM
[Begin Rediculously Long Post]

Haven't checked the transmission fluid. We may have killed it (highway cruising, about 1,000 miles since we bought the car).

I _thought_ that the SE-i had lower gearing. It really felt like it, and the tach/speedo showed it, but I was witholding judgement... My A20A1 tranny should be in good shape--it was two busted engine mounts that were making a mockery of smooth clutch engagements in my ride.

so, fuild check and possible tranny swap. Not bad.


No, I did happen to notice that the H22A uses that damn hydrualic clutch (kinda hard to miss after I sprayed the garage wall with hydraulic fluid five times). The 4G Accords also use a hydraulic clutch, so that's an option, but there's no visible room to mount the master cylinder in a 3G. There's just some metal in the way, so possible cutting/painting to make a new weatherproof hole will work, but... we'll see. Now, since I got a JDM front clip, practically ALL of the hose/hard pipe is useless. The good news is that the clutch lines from a 4G Accord should work, even if I have to cut up the unibody to mount the clutch master cylinder.

btw, I have the entire pedal set / cables and such from the Prelude as well... may have to use that throttle cable, but it's awfully long. At least I have the controls for reference.

The 93 JDM Prelude VTEC motor is rumored to be OBD-I compatible (or OBD-I, whatever). I got the computer, the cruise control, and most everything under the dash, EXCEPT for the Master Relay (controls fuel pump, ties in a bunch of sensors). It's a little $70 relay box I had to dig up from the dealership. There's one of these under the dash (driver's side) in the '89 SE-i. I'm guessing a boneyard would be MUCH cheaper, but then again, these things have a history of failures, so At Your Own Risk.

The 88 LX has a large computer box underneath the driver's seat (I have totally stripped the interior of my car to do this wiring, maybe some pics soon). I don't know what this box does, but I'm hoping I can dump it soon. The Prelude computer (P13 I think) will physically mount in that location, but the wiring harness needs to be modified.

Re-wiring that harness is not for the faint of heart. I've been re-wiring electronics for over ten years. I have excellent soldering skills and this is only moderately complex compared to past projects. Not a big deal to me as such. If anyone else wants to do an H22A swap, I could probably duplicate my wiring work, but I would charge money. We're talking 30+ hours of testing, pulling, testing, cutting, testing, cursing, testing, praying, and cheering (if it works when I'm done).

I have lit a vehicle on fire due to electrical wiring mishaps. I am not eager to do it again. :)

in related notes, I can't find a distributor that will mate up to the contained coil type JDM. The '96 Integra is close enough I can make it fit by re-drilling two of the mounting holes, but I want to know what is a bolt-in swap. I'd hate to sell this car with a note that says you have to drill the distributor with a drill press every time the car needs a tune-up.

I put an Optima sealed battery in the trunk and ran (way to F*ing big) wire to the engine comparment, which gives me some breathing room. Oddly enough, my biggest worry is where the P/S & AC piping will go.

Does that answer your question? :)

The Prelude uses an electronic speedometer and not a cable type (as the 3G does). There's no tranny hanger mount on the passenger side of the engine compartment. The firewall on the 'lude is rolled back at the very top (instead of bulging outward like the 3G), and the heater pipe are in a different location. The clutch and wiring aren't my biggest problems (yet). ;)

Fuel pump? Fuel filter mount? Air filter? The list goes on and on...

88LXi68
05-12-2003, 01:48 PM
Maybe this will help??

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/349000-349999/349572_7_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/349000-349999/349572_8_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/349000-349999/349572_9_full.jpg

rick_spiff
05-13-2003, 06:20 AM
Those are some pretty trick mods. I like the pressure guage at the end of the injector rail. It also looks like he's running standalone engine management. The wrapped exhaust manifold is probably a good idea, too.

But where's the intake manifold? I don't even see it on the engine, and I know mine is going to be right up next to the firewall (it was in the same position on the Prelude).

The local speed shop quoted me $8/ft for high pressure fuel line that I can run under the hood. I need a bit at the back end to connect the fuel pump to the hard pipe and that will finish %50 of the fuel system.

I know this is going a little off-topic, but I've been looking at the car and I swear that the fuel supply line (all metal tubing) goes INTO the passenger compartment, down the driver's side of the car, and up to the firewall. I didn't know it was even legal to run gas lines inside the car. I figured they were routed along the frame behind some kind of shield...

Can someone shed some light on this? (also double-checking the EFI conversion FAQ)

95AccordEXR
05-18-2003, 02:54 AM
use the prelude axles but fabricate new suspension and a wide body kit. :)

3G Jester
05-18-2003, 11:39 AM
mmm i wanna see pics of you next to the engine bay "modified' and the engine....i like the banana idea. or tear a peice of paper into a triangle and hold it up. in case you dont have bananas. and for your sake i pray you do have a working scanner and such. your still a noob so i dont know if you are aware of this boards flaming techniques.....

...but if people on here even SEE the phrase 'my scanner is in the shop' or....'i dont know why..' or....anything along those lines. you best have a full on firemans jump suit cause your ass is going to get FLAMED

rick_spiff
05-19-2003, 06:44 AM
My scanner is HOOKED UP to my computer! (yay!)

The pics are SITTING on TOP of it! (yay!)

I'm just too damn lazy to scan, crop, adjust, edit.... er, I mean post. (heh heh heh...) ;)


So, an update:

I don't have a pic of the intake manifold next to the firewall, but was so close that the reinforcement that holds the A20's torque bar had to be cut off--ugly.

The metal of the inner fender well on the driver's side (you know, that stuff near the serpentine belts at the front of the engine?) will probably have to be 'pushed' back with a sledgehammer to allow the H22A belts in there.

The clutch will be a work of art... stay tunned.

With the AC core and front cross-members gone, installation will be simpler. :) Got a pic of this one, should be back from the developers Wednesday.

The rear engine mount is almost 2" too long. The front engine mount lines up pretty close, but the cross-member will have to be cut since the mount needs to come down about 3/4" Don't know about the transmission mount yet, haven't got the tranny into the car. The driver's side mount will have to be moved back and the bracket on the H22A will have to be shaved (I'm using the A20 front mount, that 'lude P.O.S. silicone mount is damaged, expensive, and too large to physically fit in it's assigned space).

A new AC compressor bracket must be fabricated - AC unit hits the front cross-member well before the engine is in the right place. While I'm at it, I want to put large bolts through the compressor--it's not terribly secure right now.

So, I'm gonna see Matrix Reloaded a few more times and finish my wedding invitations, THEN I'll scan those pics. ;)

Oh, and while I'm here, does anyone know what a 'electronic load detector' looks like?

accordlx-i2
05-19-2003, 06:11 PM
I know this might be off the topic a little but this the most recent edition of "h22a swap" that is posted. I've read almost all the posts on the h22a swap and im alittle turned off about some of the responses granted some of the posts have valid arguements but like someone said were all here for help and for the intrest of the 3gen cars. before deciding to modify this 89 accord lx-i coup that by the way was given to me for work on another one of a customers cars i did alot of work and customizing on all mustangs and still do. i have a 86 mustang that i put a 96 gt motor in when everyone thought would diff but anyway my point is if someone has the desire and drive to do this swap i say more power to ya and i think all of us here (some with more exp than others) should do all we can to help for the greater good of the cars and hobby. to end i think some people are very helpful and patient and or the reason others would want to come here for info thanks and sorry so long

3G Jester
05-19-2003, 08:14 PM
NO you raise a good point.

we should be more supportive. HOWEVER...it is one of the most challenging things to do..andmost expensive. and people talk a lot about it but never do it. So we jsut like to make sure they are honest.

ie: 'too lazy to scan cut paste crop ect"....if he was honestly doing it.....i would ASSUME he would be excited enough to share it to actualy do that. plus its not that much work. im sure the engine mounts took a little longer then the time it would take to scan a pic. the least he can do is offer us proof that hes doing this.

anchovies
05-19-2003, 10:03 PM
accordlx-i2, i vote u for president :D

we need more bad ass motors in our bad ass 3g. A20 is one bad ass motor if correctly mod also.

rick_spiff
05-20-2003, 06:35 AM
1. Never, EVER get your broadband internet service through the phone company.

2. Never, never, NEVER EVER get your broadband internet service through the phone company.

3. Repeat 1 and 2 until your ears bleed.


Now that I've got some pics scanned, the 'net connection at my house has gone down. It is an understatement of epic porportions to say that I am very angry about this. If Verizon can't keep a net connection up for more than six hours at a time, they can take their goddamn 'service' and shove it where the sun don't shine.

I'll run home this afternoon and try to get them up. Say, six hours? So far I just have the ones of the engine coming out of the Prelude clip...

pric
05-20-2003, 08:08 AM
4 Hours 30 min. and counting

goldyaccord
05-20-2003, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by pric
4 Hours 30 min. and counting

where did you get that number? it's more like 2 hrs and counting... I THINK.

pimp86LX
05-20-2003, 08:51 AM
~sniff sniff~

do you smell that

(someone had to start the flaming)

Althought...shit like this CAN happen, (ie net gone down, havn't scan'd em yet ;)) its happened so many times before. :) I wonder where this thread will go :D

rick_spiff
05-20-2003, 04:08 PM
Mmm... flames....

Well, net was FINALLY up when I got home.

http://www.geocities.com/rick_spiff/car/index.html

The other rolls haven't come back yet. They show more engine details and the tear-down of my car. Maybe Saturday?

accordlx-i2
05-20-2003, 06:30 PM
looks like your off to a good start hope u can get the rest of the pics up to give some encouragment for everyone to get on board and help with some of their insight. after this is all said and done it would be great to have a thread (that works) with all the tech stuff and related articeles.

3G Jester
05-20-2003, 09:31 PM
*turns off flame thrower*

:D looking good m'boy...loookin good....

still wanna see those banana pics when you get it in!!!
[hahah wow that sounds gross...]

Vanilla Sky
05-21-2003, 03:01 AM
you know, if you get this down to a science, you should go and make mounts for our cars... i know several people would be seriously interested in mounts, even if the rest still had to be custom

rick_spiff
05-21-2003, 06:25 AM
Once the engine mounts are finished and they work, I will make some fabrication drawings (already started). By the time this swap is done, I should be able to distribute a full set of plans for the various mods necessary to get this beast in our 3G cars. My sig may be amusing, but it's no joke. I'm typing this work, where I (gasp! shock!) engineer things! ;)

It's a living. :)

pric
05-21-2003, 08:39 AM
Well that's an H22A all right. Now I can't wait to see it in the 3gee. Mad props to you rick you sound like you know what you are doing. Can't wait to see the pic's and Appreciate the sharing of the knowledge that you are willing to give up; some people are not willing to share that type of info.

pimp86LX
05-21-2003, 08:48 AM
heh heh leave it to a full blown engineer to get the h22a swap done ;)

Yes definitly get pics asap! with the bananna , lol

nice work

-peace

Vanilla Sky
05-21-2003, 10:56 AM
well, the banana isn't 3really needed... them guys that have been here for a while know pretty much what the few known 3geez with an h22 swap look like, so IMO, progress pics are plenty enough (yeah, we do need to see one with the motor at least looking like it's about to be dropped into the 3gee), but they guys here that are truly willing to put the money into the motor and all will be the ones asking all the real questions...

i thought seriously about having the mounts fabbed up for me and using as much of the 'lude harness as possible and get it in my car, running, then perfect it... but as with most things, money is a BIG problem, especially when the cheapest i could get a lude with a decent motor was as much as a lude i could drive, it kinda turned me off

rick_spiff
05-22-2003, 09:43 AM
Yeah, this swap isn't exactly cheap. Right now it's running about $4000, and I expect to cap $4500 by the time it's over. The front clip alone was $2700 plus $240 for delivery to the house.

The upside of this is the the engine is in WAY better shape than any Prelude you can buy here for $4500, and my car has four doors and room for five. To each his own though.

Here's the short list of 'build it yourself' parts:

Axles - we're on topic, yay! Still haven't found that perfect axle. I'll be boneyard diving this weekend and maybe pull something together. (Current thoughts: 88/89 Accord passenger axle for passenger side, 88/89 Accord passenger axle mated to 93 Prelude intermed. shaft for driver's side; may be too long - use similar year Civic/Integra axle?)

mounts - Totally new tranny hanger, major mods to the front engine hanger (maybe new altogether). Crossmembers have to be cut, beat on, and welded, and the mounts over them heavily modified with more cutting and welding.

fuel - Unless you have an LXi/SEi, prepare to spend $$ on a pump (maybe a tank too) and tubing.

wiring - Tear apart the Accord's wiring and lay the Prelude wiring in place of it. Details are too extensive to list here, so you'll have to wait for the write-up.

Vacuum hoses - Cake. There's like fifteen you really need.

Clutch - A bit of cutting, drilling, and bending is necessary.

Throttle - Not sure yet, but I think the LXi/SEi cable will mate up to the H22A throttle body (which is an astounding 62mm in size). However, the cable travel is long on the Prelude. Not by much though...

Shifter - Cake. Follow the common instructions for doing an H22A/Civic swap.

Exhaust - All custom or mate the Prelude manifold and down pipe to your catalytic converter. Pretty simple and any decent muffler shop should do it w/o much complaint.

Oh, and I'm not sure if I can get pics of the engine physically sitting in the engine bay. I had to take some snaps of the tranny and that used up the last roll of film. Keep in touch this weekend. :)



If anyone has serious technical questions, don't hesitate to ask.

1989 DX R
05-22-2003, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by rick_spiff
Once the engine mounts are finished and they work, I will make some fabrication drawings (already started). By the time this swap is done, I should be able to distribute a full set of plans for the various mods necessary to get this beast in our 3G cars. My sig may be amusing, but it's no joke. I'm typing this work, where I (gasp! shock!) engineer things! ;)

It's a living. :)

What kind of engineer? I'm going to be attending Texas A&M this fall and I'm majoring in Mechanical Engineering. I was wondering if any of us 3Geezers were engineers.

rick_spiff
05-23-2003, 08:07 PM
I have a 2-year in "Engineering Technology" :P

My degree actually says "Welding Technology"

Most of my work is in HVAC and mechanical, supporting nuclear and heavy industrial projects. There's quite a few car guys on my current project, so who's to say a lot of 3Gr's aren't engineers?

Vanilla Sky
06-04-2003, 12:30 AM
you still around, man?

rick_spiff
06-04-2003, 06:44 AM
Sick. Very sick. But I'm still working! :(

The important pics have been scanned and posted, but I haven't linked them up to the page. If this headache abates, I'll try to do that today.

No work on the project until this weekend at least. Bleah.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to crawl into a corner and cough myself to death....

1988starter
06-05-2003, 05:37 PM
cool looks good and I am glad you did not take offense to the skeptics.

‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›
06-05-2003, 05:41 PM
Any pics of the Engine in the Accord?

pimp86LX
06-05-2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by ‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›
Any pics of the Engine in the Accord?

:werd:

3G Jester
06-05-2003, 09:49 PM
i second that 'werd'ing

accordlx-i2
06-06-2003, 02:37 PM
hey here's a suggestion did you ever try backing into this. what i mean is to use two good size floor jacks one on either side of the car,unbolt the front memberand support it with some cynder blocks get the engine to sit right on the factory spots then raise and lower the car to get the rest to fit.

rick_spiff
06-06-2003, 04:44 PM
I quote (sort of):

---
hey here's a suggestion did you ever try backing into this. what i mean is to use two good size floor jacks one on either side of the car,unbolt the front memberand support it with some cynder blocks get the engine to sit right on the factory spots then raise and lower the car to get the rest to fit.
---

Dude, that's kind of what I'm doing.

I don't have a pic of the engine physically sitting in the engine bay... although that's exactly where it is right now. I do have pics of my car and the engine on it's way in.

To update: the motorcycle I'm riding it being a witch with a capital B, and I'm stuck workin' on that tonight. Tomorrow I'll be measuring / cutting / welding on that sucker again.

Fits great, btw.

PICS:

http://www.geocities.com/rick_spiff/car/index.html

‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›
06-06-2003, 06:27 PM
Dude that looks like a JDM Lude.. Good Luck!

1988starter
06-06-2003, 07:10 PM
good luck

3G Jester
06-06-2003, 09:35 PM
i like the web site...'close but no banana' lol

looking good man. may the shwartz be with you

rick_spiff
06-17-2003, 09:53 AM
My welding looks like @ss, but if it's structurally sound @ss, who cares?

I'm down to finishing the seam welding, finishing the rear engine mount and transmission mount. After that, just drop in the new fuel line, zip the wires back into place and put all of the accessories and crap back on. (i.e. pretty much everything)

With any luck, she'll be on the road before the month is out.


Q:

While I'm on the subject, does anyone have a relocated battery? I have mine in the trunk and I'm trying to find a good place to mount the power cable under the hood. Haven't found anything i like yet. Suggestions?

Which wire drives the stock tach? I can't seem to find it.

Well, back to fixing broken wiring harnesses.

rick_spiff
11-01-2003, 09:18 AM
update, check the earlier posted address for some shots of the in-cars stuff.

Lt99
11-01-2003, 12:19 PM
Dude ... goto ebay and buy a cheap 1 megapixel camera for $50 .......

3G Jester
11-01-2003, 09:55 PM
w00t! that gives me a boner.

way to go man! hellllll ya! i wanna see this shit in real life.