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View Full Version : engine swaps are a waste of time and $



Sean
06-02-2002, 09:43 PM
the average swap costs $5000 in a typical honda by the time you get it sorted. then the perfomance end sux as well i mean yr talking what a b16 with around 100lbs of tq why bother???

look there are 2 good options and they booth cost the same but at least you can get axles anywhere. you can force the air in via supercharger of turbo or beef up the a20a it responds to most mods like ported headsand will cost much less to keep alive than a high strung b16 that needs customs axles.

swaps suck. either get a reality smack or give up. no support hardware makes for a very difficult time. as siad before

all engines like air. so improve thsi in one of 2 ways

SHOVE IT IN WITH A BLOWER TURBO NO2 or some other means.

or CAM, COMPRESION,INTAKE, HEAD PORTING AND EXHUAST. stop wasting yr time on other engines they are to large don;t fit well and ruin the geometery and balcne of yr vehicle.

see ya later.

carotman
06-03-2002, 08:22 AM
I like my A20A alright...

I raced with a B18A Integra today and we were quite close to each other.... and I got an A20A1 :)

OldSchoolSwap
06-03-2002, 09:18 AM
I have to object on your "theory"!

First of all, as soon as I got my swap done without tuning or anything, I went to the track to check on my improvments. I ran 16's!! Came back home, did a nice tune up and adjusted a few things here and there and took it back to the track a few weeks later.... I ran 15's.
No improvments huh!?!?!
When was the last time you saw a stock 3rd gen pulling 15's with a stock motor?

When I was bone stock I was pulling freaking 17's!:huh:

Then I added N2O (only 60 shot) and I dropped to high 13's.

Then if I wanted to run a better time, all I had to do then was take it to the dyno, up the Nitrous shot to about 80, tune it a bit and that's it! No internal mods would be needed! Now do you think a 3rd gen accord motor will take 80 shot stock? The answer is NO!

Not to mention all the aftermartket support the B16A has. The B16 has no limit as apposed to the A20. There's only so much power you can get out of it, even if you turbo it you will never have the tunability of a B16 or B18.

Sorry if I got a little carried away, I just didn't understand the hole negative conlution you had :D and I also need therapy :bh: :help: :banghead: :beer: :stupid:

HondaSi88
06-03-2002, 05:12 PM
a20 vs b16 round 1............waiting for more comments!!!! wheres the guy with the h22 swap? I wanna hear his point!

Jerren
06-03-2002, 05:53 PM
what exactly is cam compression or head porting. and what kind of performance gain will i recieve? and I do know you probably know what you are talking about. i do believe you are the one who has a turbo installed in your car. right?

Sean
06-03-2002, 06:45 PM
ok oldschoolswap its on i can build a a20a to run 14's without a turbo and still drive it everyday for half of what yr efi cost and have more torque to boot ??? up for the challenge i have a dx thats all stock just waiting for me to find and exscuse to excresise some know how. god i am a horriable speller
LOL. anyways yeah i can do it for less than 3000 and still have most of the engine be stock as for NO2 won;t need it. i gonna do it all motor.

Jerren
06-03-2002, 06:50 PM
wth? so tell us!!! how will you do that?

88LXi68
06-03-2002, 06:52 PM
Guyanaboy emailed me what he did to his car and he did A LOT. he said he spent around 5k and he dynoed 140 to wheels with a stock cam and cam gear. he also said if he could do it again he would just do a swap. The things your doing to the A20 are building the internals where as that B16 has stock internals! Sorry but I think it is comparing apples and oranges.

Sean
06-03-2002, 07:16 PM
my plan revolves around stock pistons and inmproving the head. gonna work on cam and airflow with a new efi computer. also got a short ram intake on the drawing board i gonna at least try it. im sure the bottom end is gonna suck under 3000rpm but i can get it there. the stock pistons are plenty strong until they detonation get to them.


my plan of attack.


work on head flow i have a tig welder at my disposale now so i can change the port alot. also i have plans for larger valves.


gonna work on cam specs with my local cam grinder try a few and see what works best.

as for the short block pretty much stock just gonna balance everything for good measure and replace the pistons with new stock ones.the only real beffing up to be done is replacing the rod bolts with some good arp units.

might be bringing compresion up to around 11.5:1 to get more TQ out of the engine. the only real downside is that the combustion chanber sahpe is very ineeficent. so detonation could be a problem but the aluminum head with its superb heat rejection and some careful programming it should be aviodable.

will definately get the HP i want and i might even be able to get more TQ down low than i think. the a20a is one of the longest stroke motors hondas built and with a better head it could run with the vtecs no problem.

se ya later is oldschool up for the challenge ???

A20A1
06-03-2002, 08:29 PM
Bigger vlaves sounds nice... would the length of the valve stems be the same???

How much would it cost to get bigger valves fitted if I sent a head in (minus the rocker assembly and cam)

RobT5580
06-03-2002, 08:33 PM
I have been stuck on what to do and i would probably do a B16 or bigger swap if this deal doesnt close soon on a B20A. I am against the A20A because of limited parts and i would say weak transmissions. Although if you have money they can be well improved buy my theory is that i can get parts easily for a B16A and have stock LSD. I do however like the B20A a lot but again limited parts availability but it has relatively high torque and a decent starting hp. It can be a pain having everything custom made and become expensive fast. I do think the A20A can be built to be strong as Justin has proved and i know Funstick knows his stuff but it comes down to your pocket and resources...

flyngtomato
06-04-2002, 12:33 AM
why not buy an import 3G with a B20a already in it lol i just picked a stock car up complete for $500 the doors r a bit rusty and it has no bodykit but its gunna be gr8 when its done the B20a in the 3Gs isnt the VTEC though

Jims 86LXI HB
06-04-2002, 12:42 AM
Posts like this, should draw a extra dose of caution from all readers. Just be carefull that you don't fall victim to a self promotion that may not benefit from telling you all the facts. Or one that plays the music they think you wanna hear

Justanothermike
06-04-2002, 01:03 AM
This engine in a gutted out hatch at max tune should be worth some 14 second passes:)

CARBurn
06-04-2002, 11:16 AM
Gotta agree with Funstick. The A20 has some good potential even though it doesn't have the aftermarket support like the b16. You just need the time and money to put into a project like that, but that is with any engine you have.

3rd GEN
06-04-2002, 12:10 PM
yup.. I have also been concidering tuning up my a20.. only thing is.. mine is carb.. so i don't know in the end how much power I am gonna get outa carb.. I ultimately wanna do an efi swap... but I am still contiplating

OldSchoolSwap
06-04-2002, 12:28 PM
Here's the main point and what i'm trying to get accross. Everything else will always have its "if's" and "but's"

A stock B16A 160 HP 111 tq psi (1.6 DOHC 16 Valve) will always have more power than a Stock A20 (2.0 SOHC 12 Valve) ecxept torque, a few more psi on the A20 side or about the same.

Head to head
Stock on stock
Same body and wait
The B16 will take it

If you start Striping interior parts and or moding the engine, then that's a whole diffrent world.
Even then, the B16 will be a much better foundation and a start for hardcore builders. As apposed to the A20 where you will run out of mods to do and the B16 will keep "going" and "going" and "going" :D
To me, running 13's on a full interior 4dr Grand'ma 3rd gen is pretty darn impressive.

As JustAnotherMike stated on his post with the A20 "if that engine is slaped in a hatch and strip the interior" it should run 14's. Again, this is considered major moding of a car.
If I had my engine (B16) in Justin's ride, striped and the hole 9, how much faster do you think I would be able to run?

You guys dig what I'm trying to say?

It all begines with your goals. Where would you like to go tomorrow? light speed or Blitz speed? Both sound fast don't they? But one should be faster than the other.

One engine will always take more stress and power adders than the other... You make the choice of what road to pick.
I know i'm in for the long run! And I was forced to start is all over.

Nuff said!
;)

CARBurn
06-04-2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by 3rd GEN
yup.. I have also been concidering tuning up my a20.. only thing is.. mine is carb.. so i don't know in the end how much power I am gonna get outa carb.. I ultimately wanna do an efi swap... but I am still contiplating

Start with a weber carb, I got one any you will definitely see a power increase, greatly improve torque. Then do the other work, P&P head, headers, etc.

Justanothermike
06-04-2002, 02:21 PM
well the difference between th 14 second A20 and the B16 is $$$$$$$$$. about $1500 in the A20 and about $3000 in a B16 swap

carotman
06-04-2002, 02:33 PM
Hey, the B16A swap isn't free.... that costs money. Of course you are left with a stock engine but that swap costs money...


Oh.. and how are you going to put bigger valves in the A20A... those are pretty tigh fitted there!!!

Lockleaf
06-04-2002, 02:35 PM
ok so we all agree that the A20A has some good potential. But if you do all of the stuff that funstick listed, then you can't go any farther, at least Naturally aspirated. But what if I take that B16, do the same mods, and then tag on a couple of the super lightweight components that have been developed. I did just as much work plus a couple of bolt ons and again the B16 leads. Or what about an H22. They come stock 195 horse and about 165 lbs. torque. Then I take that and do the same mods, the same lightweight components for the engine. There is no way an A20A can match that power OR torque. Your point hasn't made anyone believe that swapping is stupid. It's just proved that the A20A has some really good untapped potential in it. But once it's been pushed to the max, it's to the max. Then you need a different engine, one with a higher max, to keep going if you want to stay NA. Then comes the swap. The power to be dredged out of the A20A is enough for some of us. And add to just the sense of accomplishment for dropping a 2.2 liter engine into a compartment originally built for a 1.6 liter. A good part of the reason I want to swap in an H22 is simply for the ability to say "I made this." I agree, you can take the A20A far, but everything shows, you can take a different engine farther. Thank you and goodnight. Lockleaf

PhydeauX
06-04-2002, 02:43 PM
Well here is the real question, do you guys (mike, funstick) think you can build an A20 that will perform on par with a stock b16 in a gen3 for the same or less then the cost of a swap? Just to make it fun, can you keep the motor smog legal? I know you say the b16 can keep going and going as far as hp oss, but lets keep this all motor. You wont get much more then 200hp out of a b16 na, do you guys think you can top that with an all out a20? I'm not going to knock swaping, a b16 in a gen3 will smoke me right now. But I don't want people to think that the a20 is just a shitty engine that has no potential and should be tossed to the curb if you really want the car to perform. When nitrous or a big turbo start to figure into the equation then I definitely think a b series swap is the way to go, availibilty of good strong parts that can take that kind of abuse is a real benifit that the b series has over the a20.

andy

Justanothermike
06-04-2002, 09:05 PM
ok this is where i stand on this B16 vs. A20 issue. The B16 is 1595ccs and the A20 is 1955ccs. How can an engine with such a smaller displacement make so much more power?!? After all the engine that moves the most air will make the most power right? The B16 is a very effiecient engine. after all how do u make 100 hp per liter?! The A20 is not that effecinet compared to the B16. If u where to some how make the A20 more efficient in air flow it will not have a problem making more power. Things like completely custom cams, port and polishes, upgraded intake systems, and larger valves would increase the efficiency level of the A20. the only thing that hurts the A20 in efficiency is the single exhaust valve and the single cam(can't rev as high). The extra displacement should over come that disadvantage tho. Also the B16 has a higher compression to start with. And VTEC does not give any engine an advantage. VTEC is only for streetablity. After all the VTEC lobe is just a lobe which can be created in a nonVTEC cam as well. So I think it all comes down to how much air can u move. The engine that can move the most air will make the most power.

This is also why i say the JDM B20a would be the best solution. i wanna see someone try and compare the B16 and the B20!!ha

Engines in the 3rd Gen Accord(from best to worst)
H22a
B20A
B18A and A20 are tied
B17
B16

Remember its just my opinion:)

Jims 86LXI HB
06-05-2002, 06:47 AM
Mike I agree with your opinion. I'd only put a heightned emphisis on the "streetability" issue, as I hate high strung motors with a passion. I hate driving motors with torque black holes.;), that have to be abused to get any real power.

A20A1
06-05-2002, 08:00 PM
...

guaynabo89
06-06-2002, 10:52 AM
I've come to the conclusion that one of the major drawbacks with the a20 is lack of tuneabillity. If someone has the knowhow to get a stand alone efi system and tune it correctly then the a20 has alot of potential.

Also if your going to go n/a with the a20 anything less than an 11 to 1 comp ratio won't cut it. If I could get a stand alone efi sys tem I'd swap in some hifher comp pistons real quick:D ( I have 10 to 1 now)

88llxi68 You really chopped my name man.:lol



This is a really good topic keep the replies coming.

Inabj2
06-06-2002, 12:03 PM
I dont know. I have a fetish of working with the engine that the car came with. I mean A supra that does 8 second quarter miles with a super tuned but original engine that it came from the dealer with. turns me on a lot more then the Funny Car That was molded in the shape of a mustang with some strange concoction V8 that was designed for the event. Even tho the V8 runs the quarter in 4 seconds. Why? The "Mustang" Never camed outta the dealer. The supra did.

Well I feel the same way for the engine. I mean i want to be more on the original side. Thats why im routing for the A20. 250 hp with a turbo A 20 aint bad. I originally wanted 350 hp. But I dont see any B16s running that. If anyone runs 350 hp outta a 3 gee id be very interested in knowing how that was pulled that off.

3_GENCYCO
06-06-2002, 12:20 PM
:pimp: gotta go with funstick on this one. a20a's are gr8:super:

pric
06-06-2002, 12:42 PM
Where did you get your pistons ( 10:1 comp ratio) from and how much?

guaynabo89
06-06-2002, 01:43 PM
Wiseco- 10 to 1 , 40 over for $350

Sean
06-06-2002, 01:58 PM
ok as for getting larger valves in the head. not really a tough challenge. remachine the guide over a few thousands of and inch and now you have room. as for the exhaust valve don;t think its a handicap its actully pretty efficent. as so what its a single cam that means less friction that a dual overhead cam. the a20a cam has a very large basecircle allowing it to be reground pretty radically. i am trying to get some cam blanks very doubtful i can but i will look nonethless. there are alot of parts out there they can be modified to work just no one has just yet so i geuss i will be the first. i am sick of the swaping topics its really to exspnsive.
the a20a can perform and the stock tranny can handle some abuse. lets try to make the a20a go insdtead of giving up on it if we make a large stand at a import drag event and that will get attention. we need to create a market then manufacturers will come to us. also we really need to get the membership up and prove that the accord can be pumped up alot. some much potential.

TeKKnoTeKK
06-06-2002, 02:11 PM
right on funstick, I'm with ya bud

OldSchoolSwap
06-06-2002, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by funstick
ok as for getting larger valves in the head. not really a tough challenge. remachine the guide over a few thousands of and inch and now you have room. as for the exhaust valve don;t think its a handicap its actully pretty efficent. as so what its a single cam that means less friction that a dual overhead cam. the a20a cam has a very large basecircle allowing it to be reground pretty radically. i am trying to get some cam blanks very doubtful i can but i will look nonethless. there are alot of parts out there they can be modified to work just no one has just yet so i geuss i will be the first. i am sick of the swaping topics its really to exspnsive.
the a20a can perform and the stock tranny can handle some abuse. lets try to make the a20a go insdtead of giving up on it if we make a large stand at a import drag event and that will get attention. we need to create a market then manufacturers will come to us. also we really need to get the membership up and prove that the accord can be pumped up alot. some much potential.
I like your motivation on keeping the A20 alive to the world of performance manufactures, that right there i'm all the way with you! I think more aftermarket support would be great for our engines. It can wake up a hole new world.

One of the disadvatages that these motors have over B series, is R&D.
B series have been the #1 choice for 99.9% of aftermarket performance industries (why?). Do you know how many shops have performed everything and anything possible on these engines? ALOT of time, tunning, development & reaserch have been performed in the "racing world" and has proven to be one of the BEST and most reliable engines out there!

One of the key factors that convinced me in getting this "expensive" swap done, was RELIABILITY! I will have great power without modding anything! Completely stock!
As I start modding my engine, I will always be 1 step ahead of you in "reliability" I won't have to worry about the additional wear & tear due to performance mods. Won't have to worry about breaking down and or fixing engine parts due to over stressing the motor with aftermarket components just to get the additional power.

If you don't mind working and tuning a motor verry freakwently, then an engine swap might not be for you. But if you like working on engines but can't afford to work on them 24/7 then a better more reliable engine might be a good idea.

The more performance you push an engine to produce, the more wear and tear it will create (that is a general rule) known as "take some, loose some"! wich in return you will have a shorter life span on your engine. Unless you start with a powerfull engine to begin with!

Let this be one of the key factors to your decission of an engine swap.

Oooff! I don't usually type this much:rolleyes: sorry:D

A20A1
06-06-2002, 10:15 PM
Holy Horsepower Batman!! $350 for the bore and larger pistons :eek:

3_GENCYCO
06-07-2002, 08:27 AM
squeez all the hp's out of that thing you can. i'm with you. i just purchased a motor for building up. you are motivational.:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Vanilla Sky
06-07-2002, 08:47 AM
i'm goin for a JDM H22... why not go with the best??? 220 horses, that almost beats anything the A20 can do... and that's with a bone stock engine

Derick

guaynabo89
06-07-2002, 09:11 AM
I think you guys should put up some prices for what would make an a20 go. That way you can compare it with the price of a swap.:D


The way I see it it would probably be around $3,000 for a good head job,(doen't sound to nice:lol ) and all the possible bolt ons you can trhow ar it.

This includes i/h/e, t.b., pulleys, clutch, ignition, coil, regulator and a couple more misc things.

Take into consideration that this is without rebuilding the block! If your block insn't up to spec and you have to rebuild it will run you about 800 for a stock rebuild. More with pistons, rods and such.

Even with all this I think you will only get about 130 at the wheels. :cool:

Sean
06-07-2002, 11:27 AM
well ive already had sevral cammed up a20a and my new idea is to improve the overall flow of air into the engine. i am going to build a shorter intake work on intake valve flow and rework the ports. the biggest issue with making the intake ports flow more air is the valve angle in relation to the piston and the low entrance for the intake port. it has crossed my mind sevral time to see if there were a way to move the port opening up the head to improve the intake port angle in relation to the valve.

as it is now the short side radious is a 90 dgree turn and for reall perfomance it needs to be more like 60 degrees to get the kind of low lift airflow needed for lots of TQ. so while you are planning swaps i am going to figure out a way to improve this head and when i do things are gonna change. the b16a and most of the other honda engines all have this layout with the sharp hard turn to the intake valve and it needs to be adressed.

as for the a20a taking power it can as long as you don't have detonation but the other honda motors are just a weak in this area as well. stock pistons are a sore spot but as far as i know the a20a bottom end is signifacntly stronger. see ya later.

3rd GEN
06-07-2002, 10:11 PM
yup.. I gotta be on the original side too. I am stickin with my A20..

I mean, my baby is still young.. she's only got 169,00, km's... for an 87 thats nothin!!!

but I also agree.. the a20 has some serious potential..strictly because it already has that torque advantage over the b16 and b18s...if ya just boost the horses... it's all in the torque... thats where you get your power from..not only that.. but it's also a lrger engine compaired to the 1.6L b16..

but still.. even doing up the a20 to it's max..will still be pretty damn quick...enough to start turning heads...

enough to blow away any other 3rd gen stock out there..or some others such as 3rd gen ludes, civics ( which I can already beat)...

so you see.... they still have some great potential... they just need more aftermarket support..

damackz
06-07-2002, 11:59 PM
B16a all tha way gots to agree with OSS on this one. A b16a swap will cost roughly 3 geez (haha 3geez) and u will have 160hp stock, if u can get that with an A20 all tha power to u. With tha b series u got unlimited potential to go further with forced induction and nitrous. Tha a20 will need a serious rebuild to get it done. When i do or if i do tha b16 swap i am going to rebuild tha motor with JE pistons, Crower Cams, Bore and stroke the engine to 1.8 displacement i mean therez so many things u can do. :pimp: whatever u do tho u gotta spend alot of $$$ and sometimes its just better to buy a faster car

YK86
06-08-2002, 12:25 AM
I respect both options. I would rather keep the A20 just because I would like to see how far you can take it (especially N/A) but a swap is sweet too. And about buying a faster car, since most of us have "mod disease", we will always want to make a car faster and look better no matter how new or fast it is. LOL

Jims 86LXI HB
06-08-2002, 06:27 AM
the a20 has some serious potential..strictly because it already has that torque advantage over the b16 and b18s.

Well hopefully as modding the a20 moves forward. We have the knowhow to maintain it's lowend torque and not end up creating a engine that has the same lowend weakness as the b16. Intake flow increases usually lend themselves to promoting power increases at the higher end at the expence of the low end. Which is why you see things like the vtecs and dual stage intake manifolds.

OldSchoolSwap
06-10-2002, 04:55 AM
Buiding the A20 can be fun, but NOT for the street if your planing on going crazy!

I had hopes on my stock motor as well back in the days.

I had:

JG Throttle Body
JG Radical Cam
Ported & Polished Head
Headers
Intake
Exaust
External Coil Blaster
MSD
External Fuel pump
External Fuel regulator
Centerforce Clutch w/ pressure plate
NGK wires & Plugs
Nitrous (50 shot)

So as you can see, I had my fun with the A20 as well! One thing I found out was that once the A20 was modified, the engine had such a radical idle that I couldn't stand it!
I like a mild engine good enough for the street and powerfull enough for the track, that's where the B16 came into play :) Nice, smooth idle and lots of punch!

Oh! lets not forget the transmission (our trannies suck) as soon as you "up" the power, the trannies take a shit! That is what caused my hole swap to begin. My tranny took a dump and I had the B16 sitting in my garage looking at me saying "yeah baby" "its my turn now" "look my tranny is good"
:D

guaynabo89
06-10-2002, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by OldSchoolSwap
Buiding the A20 can be fun, but NOT for the street if your planing on going crazy!

I had hopes on my stock motor as well back in the days.

I had:

JG Throttle Body
JG Radical Cam
Ported & Polished Head
Headers
Intake
Exaust
External Coil Blaster
MSD
External Fuel pump
External Fuel regulator
Centerforce Clutch w/ pressure plate
NGK wires & Plugs
Nitrous (50 shot)

So as you can see, I had my fun with the A20 as well! One thing I found out was that once the A20 was modified, the engine had such a radical idle that I couldn't stand it!
I like a mild engine good enough for the street and powerfull enough for the track, that's where the B16 came into play :) Nice, smooth idle and lots of punch!

Oh! lets not forget the transmission (our trannies suck) as soon as you "up" the power, the trannies take a shit! That is what caused my hole swap to begin. My tranny took a dump and I had the B16 sitting in my garage looking at me saying "yeah baby" "its my turn now" "look my tranny is good"
:D


Hey Oldschool:

What happened to the cam still got it?

Remember any of the specs for it?

Was it premade or did you have them grind one for you?

OldSchoolSwap
06-10-2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by guaynabo89



Hey Oldschool:

What happened to the cam still got it?

Remember any of the specs for it?

Was it premade or did you have them grind one for you?
Sold it a while ago. It was a swap (premade) they sent the biggest wildest cam for my engine specs and i had to send in my core.

guaynabo89
06-10-2002, 01:44 PM
How did your car idle when you had it in?

Did you have to raise the idle speed at all?

Did you have any problems with stalling?

How much of an increase in hp was it and how did it perform?:D

3rd GEN
06-11-2002, 10:46 AM
ya... I could go either way... like I wanna build up my A20 and see what it's got... and at the same time.. i wanna do a swap..

like a b16, b18 or maybe an h22..

but off course.. that will cost the $$$

OldSchoolSwap
06-12-2002, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by guaynabo89
How did your car idle when you had it in?

Did you have to raise the idle speed at all?

Did you have any problems with stalling?

How much of an increase in hp was it and how did it perform?:D
The idle was always a headache and it would stall several times. The performance gain was O.K. but not worth it for the trouble.

YK86
06-12-2002, 11:22 AM
Wasn't the cam the cause of the idling problem? Maybe if it was toned down a tiny bit, it would have been a better daily driver?? Just curious because I remember Geoff at Colt Cams saying people ask for the wildest cam, then complain it idles funny and doesn't pass emissions testing.

OldSchoolSwap
06-12-2002, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by YK86
Wasn't the cam the cause of the idling problem? Maybe if it was toned down a tiny bit, it would have been a better daily driver?? Just curious because I remember Geoff at Colt Cams saying people ask for the wildest cam, then complain it idles funny and doesn't pass emissions testing.

Yes. The Cam was the one responsible for the rough idle :mad: I hated that cam with all my heart! It performed good but it will always either over rev or under rev to the point that it would stall. I adjusted the valves and idle screw multiple times and it would barely fell better. While I was still tuning it (within a few weeks) my tranny took a dump and that's when the SWAP plans came into play.

A20A1
06-12-2002, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by YK86
Wasn't the cam the cause of the idling problem? Maybe if it was toned down a tiny bit, it would have been a better daily driver?? Just curious because I remember Geoff at Colt Cams saying people ask for the wildest cam, then complain it idles funny and doesn't pass emissions testing.


I never comlained... It idles great once you get the fuel mixture right... and advance the timing because the low vaccum can't pull the advancing diaphragm open enough.

haha about the emissions testing though... I mean if they are going all out racer and excpect to pass emissions too... sheesh.
You can still pass if you have a carb cause you just lean the mixture out and get new plugs and away you go... I would warm the car up first but no heavy driving with a lean mixture...

A20A1
06-12-2002, 06:01 PM
Oh and OLD SCHOOL... how come you don't like the idle...
Maybe it was just the EFI computer not able to handle the low vaccum signal???

I purposely drop it to 500rpm or so just to get that low rumble the domestic race cars get when you hear them idle at the line.
:)

Sean
06-17-2002, 07:53 PM
ok to close this topic.this topic was not to incite a riot but to make you think of less exspnsive way to mod yr cars. engine swaps are always popular ask any bodys whos swapped a v6 for a v8 or a small block v8 for a big block v8. its always about power.but for those of you who don;t have the expertise time or money for a swap you need to stop thinking about it and get on with modding yr exsiting engine. good luck.

happy to see you thinking.

fromerly89Exi
06-17-2002, 08:19 PM
:( if there were more aftermarket stuff for our cars we would never have to have this conversation at all. Everyone underestimates the power of these cars. Where I live its all Civics and newer Accords. When I pull up beside someone, and then blow their ass off, they get so insulted(of course my car is UGLY). They think that a car like that shouldnt go that quick(but it does). I have yet to see any car mags or car shows actually show off one of our cars and not say anything bad about it. Thats what I truly love about my car, its quick enough to upset some people.:flip:

3rd GEN
06-17-2002, 10:14 PM
hey formerly89exi

ya I am with ya there..I wish our cars had more aftermarket support. But ya know, some people say our cars are ugly.. and others don't mind.. when I look at my car.. i think it looks sweet.. like looking at it from the side from a distance away.. it has that long sleek look to it..esp cuz I lowered mine and put my wing on.. and now that I just recently had my exhaust done.. it looks sweet..

but ya.. I can blow away many cars.. and it leaves the drivers thinkin :wtf: ??

kinda funny I think... I love blowin people away..
but my next step is gettin efi swap done..

then my ultimate plan.. to get a Gs-R or Integra Type-R engine put in..

tyne89
06-18-2002, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by OldSchoolSwap
I have to object on your "theory"!
Now do you think a 3rd gen accord motor will take 80 shot stock? The answer is NO!


if someone is willing to come help me and fund the project i am willing to sacrafice my car to test this :stick:

OldSchoolSwap
06-24-2002, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by tyne89


if someone is willing to come help me and fund the project i am willing to sacrafice my car to test this :stick:
:lol
Good luck! Make sure you get a nice strong hood or your pistons might fly through your windshield as well :D

Oh and by the way, I don't remember if I talked about gear ratios, Honda did admit the lack of low end torque on the B16's thats why they fine tuned the tranny, to give it the perfect spice to the equation. In my experience it revs throughout the rpm's power band like there's no tomorrow! Fast shifting and nice pull.
I'll never go back to the A20a1 ;)

Don't get me wrong, the A20 is a verry good start compared to SOHC Civics and those crapy engines.

Funstick is right, if you are in the low budget area and looking for performance, our engines can deliver a good rush to your veins! Like I said, it all depends what your goals are and how fast do you really want to go in the future.
:)

gr3k0sLaV
06-24-2002, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by 3rd GEN
hey formerly89exi

ya I am with ya there..I wish our cars had more aftermarket support. But ya know, some people say our cars are ugly.. and others don't mind.. when I look at my car.. i think it looks sweet.. like looking at it from the side from a distance away.. it has that long sleek look to it..esp cuz I lowered mine and put my wing on.. and now that I just recently had my exhaust done.. it looks sweet..

but ya.. I can blow away many cars.. and it leaves the drivers thinkin :wtf: ??

kinda funny I think... I love blowin people away..
but my next step is gettin efi swap done..

then my ultimate plan.. to get a Gs-R or Integra Type-R engine put in..

I get complimented on my car quite often actually. A few people ask me if it's a prelude Lol!

and people around here seem to love 3rd gen Preludes, there are heaps around.
ANd hell they are the only nice ones!

‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›
06-28-2002, 05:57 PM
...

XBLCanterX
07-01-2002, 01:09 PM
Personally I think some of you aren't seeing the real point of doing major mods like engine swaps.

Of course you could buy a newer "faster" car with the $ it takes to do a good swap. But Id do it just to say that I have one of the fastest 3Gs out there... I mean...like oldschool said earlier

possible 13's in the 1/4!! unbelievable...and thats probably the main reason (I think) why these guys do these swaps. Its a pride thing...something you built thats very rare...you cant get that feeling by going out and buying a newer "faster" stock car...youd just be another stock prelude, civic, camaro, (or whatever) driver.

By the way...noone seems to be talking much about the B18C5...it seems to always be H22's or B16's...hmm....just wondering.

‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›
07-01-2002, 07:14 PM
...

89LXiR-acer
07-08-2002, 03:35 PM
I believe this subject is very VERY incorrect.....
with just 4000 $ you can swap a type R (b18c) engine with nitrous dipped transmission, and everything else, and clock 13'z
(high) when i boosted my engine with the garret t-71 monster turbo kit .it improved my time to low 11'z (which some peeps say that it supposed to be at 10'z) no stock accord with just know how can clock 13'z , regardless of porting out the head /intake manifold, etc.....if u do ...... then I made a WASTED investment

89LXiR-acer
07-08-2002, 03:39 PM
Open intersate? a 3g with mods? can u catch me at 195 MPH?
a soon as i get my pr3 JDM ecu ...I'll reach 205 MPH =)

89NinjaAccordLX
08-03-2002, 09:08 PM
The fact that anyone is arguing over these things only means that the underdog hasn't yet been able to prove themselves. By that, I mean that if it makes SO MUCH SENSE to just build the A20 to stronger, better, faster, then why hasn't it been done yet and why would EVERYONE be misled to believe that engine swaps are good. They are. I'm gonna side with funstick and crew on this only because I believe it can be done. The fact that it HASNT been so far doesn't inspire much confidence... but I plan to begin working on the same things they're talking about in about a month. Guess I'll see myself.

Inabj2
08-03-2002, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by 89LXiR-acer
Open intersate? a 3g with mods? can u catch me at 195 MPH?
a soon as i get my pr3 JDM ecu ...I'll reach 205 MPH =)

That soundlike bs. 195 mph on a 3geez? please....

toastyghost
08-03-2002, 11:41 PM
I notice you didn't quote his mod list. If he's got what he says he's got, I wouldn't call it impossible for him to get to 195. How the hell he KNOWS he's going 195 when the speedo tops at 130 is up for debate... But yeah I'm sure it's feasible for a T71-boosted type R to do shit like that.

accord88_2002
08-04-2002, 08:29 PM
well i am still mixed on the situation...the main thing that is holding me back from a engine swap is my car only has 90k original miles on it but the thing that makes me want to have a new engine is because it is carbed...so i am still thinking.

Joe

MoonScryer
08-05-2002, 07:07 PM
He could do it....but thing is, would he want to in a 17 yr old car? Unless you have got that thing on a completely brand new suspension/body mount kit - I mean EVERYTHING replaced - then I say you are suicidal. The car has absolutely no control at that speed.

Oh, nice engine by the way. How in the hell did you fit that in there, and we still haven't seen pics of it.

pric
08-05-2002, 07:09 PM
Open intersate? a 3g with mods? can u catch me at 195 MPH?

I would have to agree with Inabj2.


That soundlike bs. 195 mph on a 3geez? please....

With the type R trany in 5th gear at redline forgetting drag resistance and depending on the tire hieght you will only be able to go 180mph.

MoonScryer
08-05-2002, 07:16 PM
Oh, and to ‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^› thinking about the supercharger. Unless you are thinking on a Vortech side mount unit, forget it.

The Eaton/Jackson Racing ones won't fit as they come from Jackson Racing, as all the motors they are fit for lean back, not forward.

I went to the NOPI warehouse down here, and borrowed their JRSC unit in the case, took it out to my car, and plopped it on the top of the engine. It won't clear with the lean the engine has forward. You need to come up with a custom intake manifold setup to make it work, or modify the mount plate for the intake manifold portion on the JRSC unit. THAT I am still working on....

pric
08-05-2002, 08:02 PM
JRSC makes them for the D16Z, ZC D16A, B18C, B16A all of these motors lean forward. Maybe I'm misinturpeting your post. well just thought you might want to know.

88LXi68
08-05-2002, 08:31 PM
Just like the G2 Integras the master cylinder is in the way of the JRSC. I wanted to go that route as well but it wont work w/o a lot of custom fabrication. The money you spend on the fabrication you might as well go turbo.