Why Is Everyone So Down On...

[Zero]

... VTEC swaps into early Accords? I have a 94 SOHC VTEC from a 94 Accord EX and it fit into my 90 with no issues.

Trans matched, and at least two of the mounts matched... not sure about the one at the front of the engine on the right side of the engine compartment. Its a two piece mount, and the side that bolt directly to the motor has different spacing than the stock mount that connects to the chassis. The piece from the old engine might mount directly to the new one... but if it doesn't a fabricated piece need not be terribly complicated, nor should it cost alot of time to fabricate.

Is it the Prelude swap that no one wants to talk about? Far as I have always heard, just pull the driveline out of the Prelude and install it into the Accord... trans, axles, engine, hubs, spindles... everything. I never tried it, so I only know what I have read.

I do know that a SOHC VTEC from a 94 or 95 Accord will go right in.

Will let you all know as soon as the engine gets fired.

[PhydeauX]

Shall I be the first to flame or shall I resist. You should look to see where you are before you start talking though.

andy

[bobafett]

yeah fucking newb

*sheesh. that h22 almost fell into my 1990 accord, why cant you guys get them in your early accords? :rolleyes: *

i guess i will be the first. :)

[carotman]

the 94 sohc engine sucks anyway... Not worth trying in any car.... unless you get paid to do it.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by Zero
... VTEC swaps into early Accords? I have a 94 SOHC VTEC from a 94 Accord EX and it fit into my 90 with no issues.



Cause all the things that make it such a easy swap for you in your 4th gen or 5th gen, flat out do not apply to the 3rd gen. Pretty much might as well be another make of car. Yes it can be done, but with the amount of custom parts and custom work, drives any sane person to forget about it and move on to a powerplant that makes more sense, even knowing how nice the H22's power curve is in comparision. Cost's are simply way way to high to justify. You can buy a 4th gen and do the swap for less.

Discussing the issue anymore is totally pointless and another case of rehashing, been their done that.

[Zero]

Jims 86 LXI HB....

Thank you for your thoughtful and well put together response. Each is entitled to his or her own opinion, and yours is appreciated. Perhaps the swap is harder going into a late 80's car than it is to go into a 90-93. Never attempted the late eighties cars, so I don't know. Dropping into my car has been cheddar, and no major fabrication has been necessary. Obviously, I confused everyones dislike of the swap. I thought no one liked swapping VTECs into ANY early Accord, and your response made it clear that the dislike is in swapping into the late 80's cars. Thanks again for the insight.

Carotman...

Once again, each is entitled to their own views. To me, for my car, I needed a motor anyway cause cylinder 3 was not firing. It had fuel, it had spark, but no fire. (rings, piston, valves... something)
Either I could get it rebuilt, get another one like it rebuilt, or see if a VTEC from a later EX would fit. I opted for the VTEC for obvious reasons.(30 horsepower difference from the factory between the two motors) To me, 30 horses is worth it, seen as how I don't have to go through a whole lot to get it. If you think the motor is trash, feel free. But think... why would I rebuild a motor that is 30 horses less from Honda than another engine that basically fits right in... and comes from the factory rated at 150 horsepower?
Doesn't make sense to me, and like you, I am entitled to my opinion.

Bobafett...

Yes, I am new to your board. Thanks for the warm welcome, and thank you for noticing!!!!! (not) I would think that a long time poster like yourself, with years and years of auto performance experience could come up with something better than "fucking newbie." That was truly original, and very well thought out. (yeah)
Thats like calling a person with a big head, "big head." Do me a favor "fellow Honda driver," come at me with something better than this bunk the next time you want to attack one of my posts.
And you know what... think of something better than "fucking newbie" cause that is unoriginal, not well thought out, and simply ignorant.

PhydeauX...

Thanks for the heads up. I was under the impression I could come here and talk to other intelligent Honda tuners who actually had some hands on experience. Last I looked, we all drive the same make of cars. Didn't know there was a line drawn between this gen and that gen Accord. Will be sure to remember that next time I have a question or comment. After all, I wouldn't want to get any of your feathers ruffled. (see Bobafett for feathers ruffled)

[PhydeauX]

When talking about H and F series motor swaps there is a very definite line drawn between the 76-89 modles and the 90 and up, none of which I would concider early modles. You come in and ask an absolutly rediculous question with out doing any backgorund reasearch. Then just assuming since the swap went like "cheddar" for your accord that it must be so for all "early" accords and wonder why you get flamed. If you want to talk shop thats fine but remember there were many major changes to the accord for 90.

andy

[blazin3gen]

yea just remember u are in a 3rd gen accord board NOT a 4th gen board, thats one of the reasons y u got flamed

[Zero]

PhydeauX...

I call my Accord early. Its 13 years, and three body styles old. My post for my car was not ridiculus at all... at thirteen years old, the car can hardly be considered recent or new. Simply pointing out that the swap goes easier for the 90-93's would have been sufficient. Acting as if someone talked about your mothers, or pissed in your pools is just ignorant. Like I said to you before, thanks for the heads up and I will strive not to "piss in your pools" again.

Blazin2gen...

like I said to PhydeauX, thanks for the heads up. If guy want to drink "Hatorade" cause the car they CHOOSE to modify don't accept certain swaps, fine. Its just ignorant to be upset at someone else for pointing out the ease with which the car they CHOOSE to modify accepts certain swaps.

None of us can drop V-6's into our Accords. Do we get hot at a 5 Gen owner that is in the midst of an upgrade to a V-6 that comes here and, perhaps unknowingly, posts something based upon his knowledge of his car? I guess some would.

Like I said, last time I checked, we all drove Accords. Just seems to me we serve each other better by helping each other out than by flaming someone for posting about what they can do with their cars that we can't do with ours.

But, that just my opinion.

[wprocomp]

you say that everyone is afraid of doing it?well shit not eveyone has the money to drop for an h22a,axles,ecu,mounts etc.,its a extensive project and is not even worth it considering you can put a jdm b20 in with liitle work for half if not less the cost of an h22 and you come on here acting like you know what your talking about,a 94 accord motor WILL not just drop in nor does just taking the axles,trans,hub,and ecu out of any prelude make it possible to put it in any other honda if thats the case I'll go find me an h22 and just throw it in my car since they are all the same,sounds like you just wanted to brag to someone about swaping an h22 into your car.weird.and some of the people your flaming know more than you could ever hope aka phydeaux,carotman,they are frickin awsome tuners,you should be a little more respectful.

[Zero]

Wprocomp...

Never called anyone affraid. And, for your info, the engine will just drop into MY car. My whole post was about MY car. I can't and didn't speak about anyone elses cars. As I explained previously, I call my car an "early" Accord. I never said swap into 3rd Gen, I said early, again with early for me being my 1990 Accord. And dude, I was not talking about a Prelude motor at all. I said a ($ VTEC from an Accord, not Prelude.

As far as disrespecting Phydeaux or Carot, I said nothing to disrespect them or their vehicles. Don't know them, don't know their cars. My original post was not directed at anyone, but was open to anyone it applied to... I directed it to no one specifically.
My observance is that apparently no one here wants to talk or hear anything about dropping VTEC's into what I called "early" Accords.

If someone felt slighted or disrespected because I

a) mentioned the ease with which I swapped a particular motor into my car

or

b) stood up for my post and did not back down to those that felt offended

then perhaps that is their bad, not mine. And me, brag? You know me not, so I don't expect you would know this. I am far from a person who brags. I questioned, yes. If it came across as bragging that was far from my intention at all.

[OldSchoolSwap]

Ok, we are getting nowhere.

Zero, i apologize for the miscomunication(s) that you are having but frankly, that swap is not to common in your generation Accord that i know of.

We mostly dedicate on 86-89 Accords and give some opinions on other cars (as other boards will do) but most people here won't be able to pin point or walk you through any information on your car due to its diffrent generation.

I wish i could help ya, but there's only a few things i can tell you. Compare the following and see if its woth your time and money for the results that you may want to accomplish:

-Horse Power
-Torque
-Wiring
-OBD compatability
-Hydro tranny vs. Cable tranny complications
-Hardware modifications such as axles, mounts hubs ect...
-and most importantly "Money"
-Check other boards for such similar swaps to guide you, or perhaps find a board that dedicates to your generations only.

Once you've figured all this out, you'd be on a good start.

Thanks again for your time and sorry we couldn't be of much help.

[xbi0s]

Stop flaming the fucking guy, he didn't know.

Just like many of us, do we know shit of a later model Accord? General thinking would believe that one body style of a Honda would match up with a previous, his mistake.

He appologized and didn't know. We all drive Honda in the end.

[Zero]

OldSchoolSwap....

Friendliest post I have read since I been here. Thanks for the info and the advice/heads up. I came here under the advice of a poster at another board who said 3geez discusses mostly 86 thru 90 Accords. That was obviously incorrect. Never meant to dis anyones ride nor anyones tuning ability.

As for the swap...

Trans matched...

HP increases from 120 with my original motor to 150 ACCORDing to Honda... someone feel free to correct me if that is wrong....

Wiring... would at least have to use the ECU from the car the VTEC came from, and its harnesses. The harnesses are the biggest pain. Madhavi Motorsports in GA says the wires match, but from what I see they don't. The original ECU and the ECU from the VTEC APPEAR to have the same connection (even counted the number of pins between the two... the same...16), but this is kinda pointless cause the connectors in the engine compartment that go to the engine harness are different.
No one that I have found makes anything to facilitate this, so you either have to get all the wiring from the later vehicle, or go standalone.

I chose standalone. (might decide that the car "needs" a blower down the road... standalone allows any mods I might come up with without having to do ECU work)

Axles, mounts, hubs...
Trans stayed, so driveline stuff is still stock 90. Two mounts are the same. The front (of the engine) mount is kinda in two pieces... one on the chassis of the car, and the other bolting to the front of the block. The 90 front engine chassis mount does not line up correctly with the block side of the mount from the 94. One of the things I am trying to find out without having to go into the timing cover of the 94 is if the block mounts bolt to the engines the same way. My bet is that they do, but I am taking the lazy way out and trying to find out over the internet!!!!
Push comes to shove, I fabricate an adapter.

Truth is, from what I can tell at least, these engines share a number of similarities. My hunch is that once Honda decided to put a VTEC into an ACCORD, they did so using the base 2.2 that was already in production. Makes sense not to have to cast an entirely new engine based on funky cam tricks.

I know you guys don't really care to hear any of this stuff. Maybe the next 90-93 owner who reads that post on the other site will come here and read this stuff before they post. Hopefully, they will be received as graciously as you received my OldSchool. Thanks again.

xbiOs...

Thanks!!!! Cats were saying I dissed other peoples cars, and dissed other peoples tuning ability and that was way off. I know MY car. Not versed in earlier (late eighties) ACCORDs at all. I always liked the late 80's cars, I just happened to end up with a 90. I would have bought it if it was an 89 anyway. What you said is true, and that is the way I look at it anyway... We all drive a Honda in the end.

Let me ask you all this...

When did Honda put VTECs into the Acura's? Did the late 80's Integra's get VTEC motors, and if so are these the ones that you guys swap into your Accords? Acura got the VTECs in production cars before Honda did as far as I know... (technically... the NSX was the first production car with VTEC from Honda wasn't it?)

If Acura got them first, wouldn't the 86-90 two and four door Integra's have gotten them before they trickled their way into the Civics and later the Accords?

[pimp86LX]

Zero. Don't let all the raggin on ya get to you or anything. You sound like a die hard Honda fan and thats all that really matters. Hell you can be like myself and others and play for both teams (look under my avatar..GO buick power!:D).

It has been my experience that the import "tuners" i meet locally don't have the same attitude as yourself. They're all about the "social status" and the cars that mommy and daddy buy for them. Its kind of refreshing to see new ideas. and hey, you gotta find stuff like this out sometime right?

[OldSchoolSwap]

Here is a Honda site that will allow you to compare OEM part numbers and should help you solve alot of headaches. http://www.slhondaparts.com/

As far as motors are concerned.
These are pretty much all the Bseries motors available, VTEC and not.

6G ’99-’00 Civic Si USA B16A 10.2:1 160hp @ 7600/111lb-ft @ 7000
6G ’97+ Civic Type R Japan B16B 10.8:1 184hp @ 8200/118lb-ft @ 7500
6G ’96+ Civic SiR II Japan B16A 10.4:1 168hp @ 7800/116lb-ft @ 7300
6G ’96+ Civic Vti Europe B16A 10.4:1 168hp @ 7800/116lb-ft @ 7300
5G ’92-’95 Civic SiR Japan B16A 10.4:1 168hp @ 7800/116lb-ft @ 7300
5G ’94-’97 DelSol USA B16A 10.2:1 158ps @ 7600/112lb-ft @ 7000
5G ’92-’96 DelSol Japan B16A 10.4:1 168hp @ 7800/116lb-ft @ 7300
4G ’89-’92 Civic 1.6i/VTi Europe B16A1 10.2:1 158hp @ 7600/111lb-ft @ 7000
4G ’89-’92 Civic SiR Japan B16A 10.2:1 158hp @ 7600/112lb-ft @ 7000
4G ’90-’91 Civic SiR Japan B16A1 10.4:1 160hp @ 7600/111lb-ft @ 7000
4G ’89-’92 CR-X 1.6i/VTi Europe B16A1 10.2:1 158hp @ 7600/111lb-ft @ 7000
4G ’90-’91 CR-X SiR Japan B16A1 10.4:1 160hp @ 7600/111lb-ft @ 7000
4G ’89-’92 CR-X SiR Japan B16A 10.2:1 158ps @ 7600/112lb-ft @ 7000

INTEGRA
3G ’94-’00 GS-R USA B18C1 10.0:1 170hp @ 7600/128lb-ft @ 6200
3G ’94-’00 LS/RS/GS USA B18B1 9.2:1 142hp @ 6300/127lb-ft @ 5200
3G ’97-’00 Integra Type R USA B18C5 10.6:1 195hp @ 8000/130lb-ft @ 7500
3G ’95-’97 Integra SiR Japan B18C 10.6:1 178hp @ 7600/129lb-ft @ 6200
3G ’95-’00 Integra Type R Japan B18C 11.0:1 197hp @ 8000/134lb-ft @ 7500
2G ’90-’91 Integra GS USA B18A1 9.2:1 130hp @ 6000/121lb-ft @ 5000
2G ’92-’93 Integra GS USA B18A1 9.2:1 140hp @ 6300/121lb-ft @ 5200
2G ’92-’93 Integra GS-R USA B17A1 10.0:1 160hp @ 7600/117lb-ft @ 7000
2G ’90-’91 Integra XSi/RSi Japan B16A 10.2:1 158hp @ 7600/112lb-ft @ 7000
2G ’92-’93 Integra XSi/RSi Japan B16A 10.2:1 158hp @ 7600/112lb-ft @ 7000

CR-V
’99+ SMX Japan B20Z 9.6:1 146hp @ 6200/133lb-ft @ 4500
'99+ CR-V USA B20Z 9.6:1 146hp @ 6200/133lb-ft @ 4500
’97-’98 CR-V USA B20B 8.8:1 126hp @ 5400/133lb-ft @ 4300

Technically you can fit these motors in our 3rd gens, however.... wiring can be a big issue on some of these motors. The simplest motors to swap in our vehicles is the B16 first generation (pre OBD) motor (made only in Japan). Followed with the B18 witch can run into small OBD compatabilities (do to OBD1) but doable.


The NSX was the prototype for VTEC in japan and then passed on to alot of the Honda line as you can see from the list above. I don't recall what year the NSX first came out with VTEC. Anyhow, Acura does not exist in japan, Honda just calls it "Honda NSX" unlike the State's Acura NSX. Same with tegs and so forth.

[Zero]

pimp86LX...

Thanks!!!!! And as far as playing two sides goes... for American cars I am a die hard Ford fan!!!!! Fords are my first love. After the Honda is all done, I am gonna track down a 94 Mustang, or either an old Fairlane. If I end up with the Mustang (easier to find) then I am gonna drop a built 302 in with a 5spd manual. The engine is done, just needs to be assembled. Ultradyne custom cam (.494 by .517 lift... 280 by 288 degrees duration cut on a 108 lobe center) 10:1 Keith Black Hypereutectic pistons, Blackjack Headers, Weiand Intake, Comp Cams roller Rockers, Hi Press Oil Pump, double roller timing chain, and a Holley 650. Not sure what heads to run, have two sets. The Fairlane would get a 351... the Mustang might too if I happen to get a block before then.

Double duty indeed!!!!!!

Not one of those "mommy and daddy bought it" types at all. What I have, I bought it. No one gave, or will give me anything. So, if one of my cars is running and looking good, its cause I spent the loot and time to get it that way. Thanks for noticing Pimp... definitely not affraid to get my hands dirty.

OldSchool....

Thanks for the references and the website. I actually got an answer at the local wrecking yard yesterday. Found a couple wrecked Integra's with DOHC VTEC's in them. (had to raid another ACCORD for odds and ends... interior plastics, seat belt cartridge... hurt me to see my cars twin wrecked up like that... I felt bad leaving it in their like that, all tore apart and raped.... sick right?)

Thanks for the info!!!!!

[95AccordEXR]

jezuz guys... the 90-97 accord and 92+ prelude engine bays are all the same!!! all the f-series and h-series motors are higly related, and their mounts are identical... why? cause in japan, accords (5th gen) and preludes can be had with either H's or F's. The 4th gen accord engine bay will accept the h22 and f22 vtec etc... with no problem because it came with a non vtec f22 which is practically identical to the 5th gen f22 (vetc and non). That is why it is so easy. the 89 is way different than a 90 with respect to engine mounts etc... stop bickering!

http://www.mosesgoat.com/photos/misc/bickering.jpg

[95AccordEXR]

and no, the prelude was the first with vtec

and no, 5th genners cannot upgrade to v6's. the v6 will not physically fit in the I4's bay.

[A20A1]

Tis an odd thread...

...

...

and they wonder why I keep my faithful A20.

Happy Swapping... :D

[Zero]

Accord95EXR....

Are you sure aboout the Prelude being first? I don't think so, but you might be right. The flagship sports car (the NSX) I thought was first, with the technology trickling down to lesser models in subsequest years.

As far as all the swapping goes...

The engine bays might all be the same, but from what I hear from different tuners, the Prelude driveline is not the same as the Accords. The engine will fit, sure, but I am told all the rest of the Prelude front end (minus the uni-body and suspension) must be used as well. Not sure, cause I have never done it, but I am told hubs, rotors, transmission, axles, etc etc must be used.

My cars base 2.2 shares alot with todays 2.3 VTECS. Let a shop that claims to do these swaps tell it, the newer the motor is, the more things have to be done to facilitate such a swap. That is my car. This board is for pre 90 cars, and these guys all sound like they know their stuff. If they say they can't swap a mid 90's 2.2 VTEC into their cars without alot of headaches, I take their word for it.

First rule of hot rodding is that there is no substitute for cubic inches. Why swap a small motor when a bigger one is available? Only when the power gained by the larger engine is offset by the amount of money that must be spent making it work in your car.

I could drop a ford 460 into a Mustang, but I wold HAVE to do frame upgrades, and suspension upgrades just for the car to drive well with all the heavy extra iron planted on the fron nose.
Why do that, unless I am gonna drag race alot?

I get a 351, have it stroked to 415, and have a smallblock with big block cubic inches.

The 2.2 VTECS might fit, but it might not be financially advantageous to do so for the amount of gains you will yield in return for the money spent. Do you spend $15 per extra horsepower, or do you spend $30 per extra horsepwoer?