Sub Box Material...

[2Fast_Fiero]

I am tearing apart the rear of the interior in the Fiero right now to build the sub enclosure. BUT Since this car is soo small and I'm about to lose some space behind the seats for this enclosure, I need to figure out what to use.
I'm planing on having 2 Seperate Enclosures, 1 behind each seat with a 500W/Nominal Pioneer Premier 12" in each enclosure. The sub will be closer to the ground of the car, and the enclosure will be from there, to the begining of the window, so all I'm doing is expanding the size of that firewall for an enclosure. What Material or wood should I use? What will be the best for bass quality and bass travel? My friend tells me to use MPF, which is what I used on my box for the Accord.

I'm making a specialized drawing on MS Paint on what the enclosure will look like.

[dXsquared]

its MDF... medium density fibreboard... if your gonna be only giving each sub around 300 watts or so.. u can use 5/8 MDF... or Birch Plywood... with the thinner board, you will have a bit more internal volume with the same exterior size...

Travis

[2Fast_Fiero]

300W? Its going to be 500 Watts NOMINAL, Not Maximum. 1000Watts Maximum.

[2Fast_Fiero]

Should this be an Enclosed box? Or should I have a port on the top of the enclosure right behind the head rest? I've heard a ported box with around 600 Watts pouring into it and I heard alot of air being forced through it, I heard 2 500W subs bump in a sealed enclosure. and it just bumped.

[2Fast_Fiero]

http://www.fierosound.com/images/subb2.JPG http://www.fierosound.com/images/subb1.JPG

[wikkedv15]

ahhhaaa.. thats really gonna make ur butty shake ey? lmao..

[TJ89Accord]

Put the sub under the hood :). Thats what I did to my MR2. Sounded WAY better than stock. But I had a crappy amp. Some pics. I used MDF, not sure what thickness, and sealed it off with fiberglass. I used to love it when people would be like WTF, the hood is rattling...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid36/p092c4c6b1e83c4d2a9d23cc623301ca9/fd26d521.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid36/p14bc54da5bf8dab124a02e445b73c241/fd26d522.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid36/p9bb354e387deff9dc329e3d0b19fce09/fd26d520.jpg

tim

[2Fast_Fiero]

Nah, thats where my Amp Rack is going to be, and my friends self recharging system. My power station is going to be up front. Custom Amp rack will cover the entire hole, have the amps flush, the wires flush, even tho the wires will be exposed so you can see most of them (Not the speaker wires, just power), they will be in a grove I'm going to make. The fuse boxes will be flush, the 2 Autometer Batt guages will be flush on each side of the amp rack to tell the power of both Interstate batteries underneeth. I'll have 2 Battery trays under the amp rack with 2 interstate batteries in them. The wires will all be covered under the amp rack with casing and set aside clean like so I can open the rack from hinges I'll install to expose the inside. There will be alot of cooling under the amp rack in that area to keep the amps cool. Having 2 500W Pioneer Premier 12" subs behind you bumping 1000Watts CONTINUOUS...RAWR! Then aftermarket speakers in the stock seat speaker locations. I have my system planed out, I just need to start working on stuff while I can, I have some extra MDF in the garage that can help me make the frame. I'm wondering if I should make custom chambers to the enclosure, like bose does, will it enhance the sound of the bass comming out of the sub? even when its not ported...

[87DXHatch]

Ok, I'll be the first to break this to you, but Bose sucks, big time.

Anyway, on to your questions:

You have 3 main choices for sub enclosure materials:
1) MDF: Medium Density Fiberboard, this is the mainstay of the car audio industry, more enclosures are built from this than anything else. It's strong, easy to cut, easy to work with, all around good stuff. If you do use this, get 3/4" board, should run you ~$20 for a 4' X 8' sheet of it
2) Baltic Birch Plywood, use this if you want the enclosures to be a lot lighter. This stuff weighs about 70% of what MDF weighs, so the enclosures are lighter. It is twice as expensive as MDF, though, so if weight isn't a concern, or your boxes are small, I'd go with MDF.
3) fiberglass... if you really want to go custom do your boxes in fiberglass. If you'll scroll down the topic list in this Audio section, and find the one that says "Tons of information" I put about 5-6 fiberglass tutorials in there... I've worked with it, and, well, it sucks to work with, but the finished product is pure badass.

As for your enclosure design, I don't think you know how to design a ported box correctly (I'm just jumping to conclusions based on what you posted) so I'd suggest you just go sealed. Put each of those Pioneers in 1-1.25 cubic feet boxes and it'll sound very nice.

Any other questions?

[2Fast_Fiero]

Originally posted by 87DXHatch

As for your enclosure design, I don't think you know how to design a ported box correctly (I'm just jumping to conclusions based on what you posted) so I'd suggest you just go sealed. Put each of those Pioneers in 1-1.25 cubic feet boxes and it'll sound very nice.

Any other questions?

WTF do you mean I don't know how to design a ported box correctly...How on earth could you make that asumption? You haven't seen any of my previous system. You haven't seen any of my work.

[A Dawg Jr]

Probably because you don't know what materials to use.... just a guess, I 'm not making any assumtions

[87DXHatch]

Originally posted by 2Fast_Fiero
WTF do you mean I don't know how to design a ported box correctly...How on earth could you make that asumption? You haven't seen any of my previous system. You haven't seen any of my work.


Originally posted by 87DXHatch
(I'm just jumping to conclusions based on what you posted)

If you had read what I posted, I said I was jumping to conclusions. :rolleyes:

I jumped to that conclusion because you didn't know what materials to build your enclosure out of... I'd think you'd know that if you had designed and built previous systems. And you made it seem like porting was as easy as just adding a tube to a box.

[catalin]

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but 2 12"s in a Fiero is just not going to to happen without major structural modification to the vehicle, and properly designed enclosure.

I say don't bother with the 12's and go with 10's or even 8's. It's a tiny car to begin with so, you'll have big bass whichever way you go.

[catalin]

I would say use 3/4" MDf to build yourself a skeleton or frame of the enclosure. After that use fiberglass to take an impression of the back firewall and attach it to the frame.
When that's done, then build a baffle, mount your speaker to it and away you go. :)

[87DXHatch]

Originally posted by catalin
I would say use 3/4" MDf to build yourself a skeleton or frame of the enclosure. After that use fiberglass to take an impression of the back firewall and attach it to the frame.
When that's done, then build a baffle, mount your speaker to it and away you go. :)

Most work, probably, but best idea... if you want tips on 'glassing, hit up the second link in my profile.

http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb2/images/thumbup.gif

[2Fast_Fiero]

Originally posted by catalin
Not to throw fuel on the fire, but 2 12"s in a Fiero is just not going to to happen without major structural modification to the vehicle, and properly designed enclosure.

I say don't bother with the 12's and go with 10's or even 8's. It's a tiny car to begin with so, you'll have big bass whichever way you go.

Too Late. I allready have a 10" Square cut out of the firewall on both sides. And its not structural Modification. That 10" Square Channel on both sides of the firewall is just for the magnet. I was allready using MDF for the Frame of the enclosure, but why I asked what material to use, is just because the subs are behind each seat, the enclosure takes up the entire firewall, the enclosure sticks out about....5"s, And I wanted to know if anyone knew of something that will project the sound waves of bass better. I just need to get another sheet of MDF for the face of the enclosure, I've been running off of scraps from my previous sub enclosure that rattled my trunk apart 2 times, and broke the seals on my rear window in my Accord with 1 150WN Pioneer Sub!

The 12's are going to be done, DON'T underestimate the Fiero's!
There are soo many things I'm about to start doing to my Fiero, that will blow your mind. I've converted 3 3Geezers into Fiero lovers allready. ONE just sold his Accord for a Fiero. Just wait till I pull up in my Fiero, and all of your mouths drop! Ok well thats the end of my shit talking. BTW, look at this picture, His enclosure is different compared to mine, I'm only having 2 12's tho. Not the Aditional 2 10" subs above the 12's.
http://www.angelfire.com/ab4/fierostereo/00004.jpg

[A Dawg Jr]

:eek:

That looks like it would hurt listening to that....

[2Fast_Fiero]

LOL, Thats what I'm saying.
"WARNING: Person(s) using a PaceMaker must listen to music in this vehicle with strict caution of the volume control. Bass may and will effect rythm of heart beats and can be fatel!"

[catalin]

Originally posted by 2Fast_Fiero
Too Late. I allready have a 10" Square cut out of the firewall on both sides. And its not structural Modification.

Cutting into the firewall is structural modifications.. If you use fiberglass in your enclosure you'll be able to maximize the amount of air space that your subs can use.

Good luck, I look forward to seeing some pictures as you work on it.

[87DXHatch]

Looks very impressive...

You should get it metered when you're done too, see what you can pull ;)

[2Fast_Fiero]

Originally posted by catalin
Cutting into the firewall is structural modifications.. If you use fiberglass in your enclosure you'll be able to maximize the amount of air space that your subs can use.

Good luck, I look forward to seeing some pictures as you work on it.

On the Fiero it isn't Structural Modification exactly. On the Fiero's firewall, there are 8-10" Channels, beyond those chanels CANNOT BE CUT, if you cut those area's, you will weaken the Structure. What I did was the safe, and right way. People have said using Fiberglass to seal off the Channels from the Sub Enclosure is the easiest way to go. But I'm trying to figure out if the price is easier also. Its going to be fun to meter the 2 1000W Clarion 12" DVC Subs that are going to be powered by a 1000W 1ohm stable @ 0.8THD when get them installed.

Before I finish my system, I need to swap the interior with the 94 Pontiac F-Body interior so I can use the Clarion Components in the door, replacing the 4x6's in the dash. I'm selling my Pioneer Head Unit right now so I can purchace the 4x6 Clarion Plate Speakers for the Rear Pillars.

<EDIT> BTW, I'll try to take pictures either tomorow, or the day after. Depending on the weather. Its hard as hell working in a black car, in 110degree weather.

[87DXHatch]

I wouldn't worry about swapping interiors to try and get the speakers to fit in the door... if you're going to be using other fiberglass, might as well make kickpanels. Should overall have better imaging and a higher soundstage than door mounted speakers.

Unless there isn't any room for them... I've never been in a Fiero.

[2Fast_Fiero]

I'm swaping the interior anyways! The interior in the Fiero's are UGLY! And I can swap the interior from the 94 Pontiac F-Body for a few hundred bucks, depending on what kind of deal the junk yard gives me. And the door panels I'm going to use, are practicly the same as the Kick Panels for Speakers. They have a mount for Tweeters and the midrange. I'll show you pictures of my Interior how it is NOW. And I'll show you what my interior will look like $500 down the road, and a few cans of Krylon Fusion!
STOCK Interior:
http://www.chronopulse.com/ferrari/diary_hw/images/stage_1.jpg
Pontiac F-Body Interior in a Fiero:
http://www.chronopulse.com/ferrari/diary_hw/images/FloorMats1.JPG
That F-Body interior was detailed, I love doing that, so I plan mine will look quite the same, a lil different tho.

[87DXHatch]

Yes, that is pretty damn ugly

[2Fast_Fiero]

One more thing. Just because I know you all think I'm some loser. I'm learning to think ahead of you. You don't think I will be able to afford the mods for my Fiero. Well The most expencive thing that will be done to my Fiero, will be a Chevy 350 Swap, that will cost me around $2500. That interior I just previewed, cost the guy $320 TOTAL to do. All the mods I do to my car, will be made and done by me and me alone. Thats the joy of owning a mid engine, lightweight, fiberglass car. To get my car to look like a new aged, high powered sports car, it wont take much. The car will look and perform like its 15+grand, but it will be less then 5grand!

I have a request, Why can't the 3geez board just hear me out on things, help me with what questions I may have, and stop harassing me?!?!?!

The question wasn't meant because I didn't know what I was doing, IT was ment for difference in opinion.

[A Dawg Jr]

Probably because we've heard it from a lot of different people, and nothing they ever plan to do ever gets done. And the most expensive thing you have to do is hella expensive..... just thought I'd point that out. I don' t know your finacial abilities, so I'm not saying it can't be done.

And if I were you, I wouldn't bother doing all that interior stuff. I think it looks a lot better stock. I mean, switch the stearing wheel and that part that goes around the gauges on the dash, and it'll look pretty good. Just my opinion. The red shit is just too much

[2Fast_Fiero]

A Dawg Jr, Its happening anyways, thats what people like to do to show cars. Right now my Financial Capabilities are limited, but that will end by the end of this month. One more thing:

A Dawg Jr, Joined 3geez in: May 2003, DX User with 270 Posts...You don't know CRAP on what is going on with 3Geez and Me. This has been my spotlight since August 2002 when I joined 3Geez. I do admit I was a Nieve lil punk kid then. But since then, I have learned alot, and alot from members on the 3Geez Board (OSS, 88LXIHB, YASU, Carrotman, Ect...). I have been harassed for one hell of a misunderstanding ever since then.

Financial Capabilities, in the past 2 months, I droped 2grand into my Accord and Eclipse. I spend every penny on my car. The $2500 engine swap is not expencive at all. You go and try to put an engine capable of producing 400hp STOCK in your car for that price. Ehh, you can do a B20 for that price. While your doing B20's, I'll be doing a Chevy 350 V8! The $2500 Price Tag I displayed is a rough estimate, the kit is $1500, I'm getting the interior and engine and ecu and harness from a friend, so I'm sure that will be cheap. All my nice ass mods like the Window kit on my deck lid to display the engine? 15 bucks, The Cool Cathode neons to display the engine in the window? 10 bucks with Pep Boys Discount.....What else...Ohh yea, Scowel Hood? 100 Bucks...MR2 Side Vents....25bucks....Pisa GT Ferrari TAil Lights? 125 bucks! Marlboro Red Paint Job done by a friend, 50 bucks and a Giant T Bone Steak! Wow, now I have a show car for....325! WOW!

[A Dawg Jr]

Wow, dude settle the hell down... I was just saying I've seen a lot of people have huge ass plans for there cars without the kinda $$$$ to back it up. I don't know what kinda money you have, so w/e do what you want.

[2Fast_Fiero]

Dude, I'm not trying to start anything with you, there's nothing to settle down. I'm just saying that its kinda fucked up holding a grudge for a year now! Every post I make, there's going to be someone thats going to say something.

[catalin]

Fast Fiero, I think the reason why you're feeling some friction is because of the 'show off' type attitude. I'm not dissing you man, just adding my two cents in.

I really do look forward to have a look at your achievements with the car in the future. All the best.:)

[2Fast_Fiero]

I'm not trying to be a show off on anything. Catalin, its been going on for the past year. Because of a misunderstanding.

If you think that the things I'm wanting to do to my Fiero is trying to show off, Me saying, "Ohh hey check out what I have and you don't" is not me. But trying to get bass in the Fiero, Is something that is HARD to do. There is an enclosure made for the center console, but I hear its nothing to jump through hoops about. My Accord had great pounding bass, My eclipse had stock sound, I do wanna show off in the Fiero, but only at car shows. In this post, I just wanted a difference of opinion on what reflects bass more in a small environment (Fiero Cockpit). I allready knew how I was doing it, a few people have done it before and have won awards for it, I wanna do it because Fiero's are steped on where I live.

I think its kinda messed up for the people on here that I look up to, look to me as a cockroach. It needs to stop allready. I just want help, and because I want help doesn't mean I'm stupid!

[A Dawg Jr]

Sorry man, just a missunderstanding. But can I see some exterior pics of your fiero?? :D

[dXsquared]

you dont have that body style do you? the one in the sig???

Travis

[2Fast_Fiero]

Yes, Its a Notchback Unfortunatly. I'm converting it to a Fastback here pretty soon. Thats another joy of owning a Panel car. If you wanna see pictures of my car, click the signature.
I'm not that big of a fan of the Notchback, there are some nice Notchbacks, but there are a total of 3 fixed up Notchbacks and no Fastbacks in new mexico, that I know of.

Thank you DX and A Dawg JR for listning, its about time someone does.