How to beef up tranny?

[toastyghost]

How do you make a tranny handle more punishment? I have yet to find information about "performance" tranny internals of this type for any import, which is odd considering the amount of info out there for making the engine abuse the tranny more. There is obviously clutch and limited slip but those are more about making better shifts than improving the longevity of the tranny.

[k-roy]

Good luck.
You could rebuild it with genuine honda parts.
If it is an auto you can add an external cooler.
And be sure to use synthetic fluids, that should make it last longer. Beyond that is the great unkonown for our cars.

[Scorpion88LX]

thermal cycling

[leadfoot88lx]

Anyone have a link for rebuild kit on our auto tranny? I can't seem to find anyone who supplies them on the net anyways...

[NXRacer]

or if you want to have a custom tranny built i know of a guy who builds 6 speeds out of 5speeds and can build all new internals. Perhaps that is what you're looking for?

[toastyghost]

Kroy: Why no external cooler for manual? Probably sounding like a n00b but I'll be the first to admit I know very little about trannies. You bolt it on and it has gears in it and it works yay...

Scorpion: Thermal cycling... neat phrase but wtf does it mean? This looks like a job for Google. :)

Leadfoot: Looking for link, will PM to you if I find anything. <update>linkage (http://www.drivetrain.com/autotransoverhaulkits.html#HONDA)</update>

NX: That rules. It's just for research at this point but I'd really like to know more.

[Scorpion88LX]

http://www.diversifiedcryogenics.com/index.html
http://www.onecryo.com/onecryo/
http://www.percryo.com/

hope these work

[88 Accord DX]

Originally posted by NXRacer
or if you want to have a custom tranny built i know of a guy who builds 6 speeds out of 5speeds and can build all new internals. Perhaps that is what you're looking for?

most of the time when then is done the overdrive gear is used for the 6th gear but maybe it can be done on our trannys

[toastyghost]

If the gears are all custom-made, I would assume you could specify the ratios you want. Otherwise it's probably a tighter 3rd or 4th, then each one after the new one is numbered higher but the same as stock. Just speculating though...

[smufguy]

if anyone could make a custom tranny that could handle 500+ hp i think its pretty good enough for the abuse from our driving. but it should also be able to withstand the higher revs and duration of the tranny being in a certain gear and high revs.

First material i can think of is Titanium which can withstand higher temperatures and wear.

Im liking ur new thoughts Toasty :cool: :smokin:

[NXRacer]

I'm wondering if you guys are worrying about nothing. Sean and Justin havent complained of tranny problems yet. I doubt we'll be putting out HP numbers that will threaten our tranny's. Until somebody blows a transmission due to high horsepower numbers, i doubt its really something we should worry about.

My $.02

As for the custom tranny, he can supposedly make a 6 speed out of any tranny. He can customize the ratios as well. And its a true 6 speed. I've personally seen one of his tranny's in a Jetta. The only prolem with the jetta 6speed is that its over under reverse, which if you know how a VW tranny is layed out, R is next to 1st, so 6th would be next to 2nd. But that wouldnt be the case with ours since R is next to 4th.

[BootMachine]

Take the tranni apart and take out all the internal gears....replace the syncros and then go to a machine shop with the rest of the internals and say

"here...build me these out of the strongest forged steel you can"

then put the tranni back together.

Castrol 10W oil with Lucas Oil Stabalizer!

boo-yeah!

[pric]

Originally posted by NXRacer
I'm wondering if you guys are worrying about nothing. Sean and Justin havent complained of tranny problems yet. I doubt we'll be putting out HP numbers that will threaten our tranny's. Until somebody blows a transmission due to high horsepower numbers, i doubt its really something we should worry about.

My $.02

As for the custom tranny, he can supposedly make a 6 speed out of any tranny. He can customize the ratios as well. And its a true 6 speed. I've personally seen one of his tranny's in a Jetta. The only prolem with the jetta 6speed is that its over under reverse, which if you know how a VW tranny is layed out, R is next to 1st, so 6th would be next to 2nd. But that wouldnt be the case with ours since R is next to 4th.

How much does your friend charge to do this? 6 speed with the gears closer together sounds promising for the right price that is. I would be assuming since he can add a gear he can also custom make a lower FD. With the higher 6th gear you could go with a much lower FD and still mantian the same overall ratio in high gear and be much quicker off the line. It would be nice if you could do this with honda's like you can with domestics. You can change out the diff in a ford for under 200 and go from a 3.23 to a 4.10. That would be nice if you could do that to a honda.

[NXRacer]

i believe the 6speed i saw in the VW was about $1200.

[toastyghost]

Smuf: Funny you should mention that, I just found a thing today for Fieros and W-bodys that is about this mass production project to make a 500+ tranny for standard GM V6 bolt pattern, as well as high-flow 3.4 DOHC heads and a Z34 turbo kit. :)
Also the first thing I was thinking when I posted this thread was having a shop take stock gears for spec then cut custom titanium gears. I didn't want to sound like a total n00b if that was an outlandish idea, though.

NXR: Good point, this did not occur to me that the most powerful cars on the board don't seem to give a flying fuck about tranny strength. Maybe Honda knew they were severely under-engineering their motors for the amount of power they could produce, so they also over-engineered their trannies to handle more? I've driven my friend's Jetta TDi and that shit is fucking awesome. As a result, I know what you mean about the non-conventional way they do their reverse gears. If you know your domestic shit, it's kind of similar to the T56 shifter, no? The $1200 figure is nice since the high-torque custom GM tranny I mentioned above is expected to run $1800. They have test cars running turbo 3.4 DOHC at over 500hp/550tq driven hard in shitty conditions, and the trannies are holding up beautifully. I can't wait until those things are on the market.

BootMachine: I like the straightforwardness of your approach, but based on what I've seen, Mr. J. Random Machine Shop in Virginia wouldn't know what the fuck you were talking about.

[Justin86]

Originally posted by BootMachine
Take the tranni apart and take out all the internal gears....replace the syncros and then go to a machine shop with the rest of the internals and say

"here...build me these out of the strongest forged steel you can"

then put the tranni back together.

Castrol 10W oil with Lucas Oil Stabalizer!

boo-yeah!
That what I was going to say. Sounds like a good idea.

[PhydeauX]

If I were to guess what the weakest part of the tranny was I would say the case. Something like this bearing support plate would problaby be a good idea to try. http://www.relentlessracing.com/transmission.html. Thats for a dodge but the layout looks alot like a honda trans. I think I remeber justin smoking his trans a while ago. It was on one of the old boards so I'm not going to look for the post. I can't remember how it let go though. You can also open up the drainage holes for 5th gear to make it last a bit longer too. Not that that's going to help if you're beating on it.

andy

[dhcarss]

I think oldschool blew his trans up also on the old motor... Seems like I remmember seeing his pictures. wasnt pretty

[A20A1]

http://www.levelten.com/ <---That is for auto trannies... I would get that for sure if I had the $$$, mainly for the higher stall speed TC. :D

[modu03]

Originally posted by A20A1
http://www.levelten.com/ <---That is for auto trannies... I would get that for sure if I had the $$$, mainly for the higher stall speed TC. :D

know anybody that does the 6 speed tranny for a manual tranny... I would be very interested in that... I have been saving up money, now that I'm working so much overtime, and am planning on having a six speed tranny built, if I can find someone who does it.

any suggestions would be appreciated

[A20A1]

Best thing i can think of is a tranny adapter and cstom axles to match

[NXRacer]

Originally posted by modu03
know anybody that does the 6 speed tranny for a manual tranny... I would be very interested in that... I have been saving up money, now that I'm working so much overtime, and am planning on having a six speed tranny built, if I can find someone who does it.

any suggestions would be appreciated

i'm trying to get the name and number of the guy in portland that does 6 speed conversions. As soon as i find out, i'll post up info about price, and if its possible with the honda trannys.

[‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›]

Originally posted by NXRacer
i'm trying to get the name and number of the guy in portland that does 6 speed conversions. As soon as i find out, i'll post up info about price, and if its possible with the honda trannys.

I don't think it's going to be Possible with B-series tranny. Those casing are tight as hell.. Even the K-series casing is tight. Those are 6 Speed Trannies. Having 6 speeds is pretty useless for racing..Hopefully it will work!! Good Luck with that!

[AccordEpicenter]

As far as ive heard, there were a handful of people that were breaking trannies, like Justin etc... I bet it has more to do with clutch engagement shock loads then actually making power, but i could be wrong.

[smufguy]

This is my question, THe reason to have a 6spd tranny is to boost up ur acceleration and in the same manner boost ur gas milage with a lower top gear ratio. So why not just upgrade the first three or four gears and keep either the 4th or the 5th kinda stock? I mean if its for racing, we aint gonna use all 5 gears. But this is strictly speaking for a quarter mile race, But for autocross i think it would be different and advisable to change all gears and add one up. Well im just thinking weird :)

[PhydeauX]

I don't think its going to be possible to convert the accord trans to a 6 speed. Not with a rediculous amount of fabrication. In the VW 02A trans, the one with the W patten that some have termed "non-conventional", reverse is on a diferent fork then 5th. The leaves the other side of the 5th gear for open for the addition of a 6th gear. In the accord the 5th gear for engages reverse. If you were to add another gear on to it you would then either loose revers, or have to add another fork to engage it. You would also have to modify the selector to be able to manupilate said fork. Its quite a tight fit in there I might add. Its probalby alot easier and cheaper to get a 6 speed tranny and weld an accord bell housing on to it. As for your friend with the jetta nxr, why didn't he just import a factory 6 speed from europe? cheaper and easier.

andy

[Sean]

the first thing that comes to midn is re enforcing the end of the case where fith gear is. a bit of tig welding would suffice. then adding a few tig wleded strengthning ribs for sure. then having the gears and all internals heat treated then cryo treated and stree relived. id also look into a stonger input shaft. the stock one leaves me wondering how long it will last.

anyways thats what i would do

[toastyghost]

Haha Phydeaux.. "some" meaning me. By non-conventional I meant not what I'm used to. Not that I drive decent cars very often or anything...

Great ideas from everyone and I will be adding a lot of stuff from this thread to my topics for research. I love this board...

[AZmike]

Does anyone know which steel alloy and process Honda uses to manufacture our gears? I assumed that they were already heat treated from the factory.

[bobafett]

yeah justin smoked trannies all teh time if i remember properly, he said he was on like his 5th. i mean when your pumping out over 300hp on a tranny meant for 120, something is going to give. :D

[NXRacer]

Originally posted by PhydeauX
I don't think its going to be possible to convert the accord trans to a 6 speed. Not with a rediculous amount of fabrication. In the VW 02A trans, the one with the W patten that some have termed "non-conventional", reverse is on a diferent fork then 5th. The leaves the other side of the 5th gear for open for the addition of a 6th gear. In the accord the 5th gear for engages reverse. If you were to add another gear on to it you would then either loose revers, or have to add another fork to engage it. You would also have to modify the selector to be able to manupilate said fork. Its quite a tight fit in there I might add. Its probalby alot easier and cheaper to get a 6 speed tranny and weld an accord bell housing on to it. As for your friend with the jetta nxr, why didn't he just import a factory 6 speed from europe? cheaper and easier.

andy

His 6th gear isnt above 5th. Its under reverse. It must use the same fork as reverse because you have to push down to engage the gear. (like you do with reverse). I dont know if this still fits your theory, but i thought i'd point that out.

This guy i know with the 6speed has that tranny on a MkII Jetta and i dont think they made OEM 6 speeds for those Jettas.

[PhydeauX]

Getting way off topic here. I under stand what you mean with the 6th gear being under reverse and the implications that has on which shaft is actuating. I don't understand why the guy built the kit that way, but hey he designed it not me. The quaife kits put 6 under 5th where it would usually be, but they also cost upwards of $3000. I think the 6 speed was only offered in the mk4, at least on the tdi anyway. I don't know if there was a mk3 gas 6 speed, audi may have had one. The 1 2 and 3 all use the same basic trans, the 4 is a little diferent. It will bolt to the older engines, but requires 1 custom mount and some axle modifications if I am to believe that all the research I did was correct. I never did the swap because I can't afford the down time, and the gains wouldn't quite offset the cost. As much as I would like to beable to barrel down I-95 at 80mph and still get close to 50mpg I'll have to settle for 70mph or 42mpg.

andy

[toastyghost]

Talking VW trannies isn't too off-topic, after all the reason I even brought this up to begin with was that I found out about a new GM tranny option.

[Justin86]

Originally posted by bobafett
yeah justin smoked trannies all teh time if i remember properly, he said he was on like his 5th. i mean when your pumping out over 300hp on a tranny meant for 120, something is going to give. :D Another good reason to do a engine/tranny swap. B18C :D

[Sean]

well my tranny is holding up fine. shock loading has alot to do with how much power you can feed a tranny. if you rev the engine to 4000rpm and dump the clutch with 6-8 psi of boost up and on the motor yes youll shred trannys all day long. right now im looking into re enforcing the case to cut down on gear deflection and going to larger end case bearing. along with that ill be looking into stronger striagth cut gears and stronger vasco main and counter shafts. all this stuff will fit in the teg case which means theres a market for it out there.

[smufguy]

Originally posted by Sean
well my tranny is holding up fine. shock loading has alot to do with how much power you can feed a tranny. if you rev the engine to 4000rpm and dump the clutch with 6-8 psi of boost up and on the motor yes youll shred trannys all day long. right now im looking into re enforcing the case to cut down on gear deflection and going to larger end case bearing. along with that ill be looking into stronger striagth cut gears and stronger vasco main and counter shafts. all this stuff will fit in the teg case which means theres a market for it out there.

Amen to that :bow:. Atleast someone knows what he is talkin about and not be like 'oh time for a B18 swap'. man.......... one more time i hear that line again, im pretty sure, i will kick myself in the head :mad:

[toastyghost]

You must be quite flexible. Thanks for the insight, Sean.

[Justin86]

I'm sorry man you should kick me in the head since I said it. Speaking of that I need to kick myself in the head for some stupid ass stuff I did last night.
Ran from the cops and lost them. Then get caught 4hrs later for something, it went something like this, "I swear officer I didn't know she was 16yrs old. That could have got ugly for me. Then I had to go bail her fine little ass out jail this morning since she got bussted for breaking curfew.

[PogiLXI]

Advantages of a 6 speed Is a Wider Gear Setup, Like Lower 1st gear for more Torque. Higher 4-5 for top end, Wouldnt that be Ideal Set up????

[Sean]

Advantages of a 6 speed Is a Wider Gear Setup, Like Lower 1st gear for more Torque. Higher 4-5 for top end, Wouldnt that be Ideal Set up????

6 speed would be nice but i can barely keep my tires on the road as it is lol.

[toastyghost]

Originally posted by Justin86
it went something like this, "I swear officer I didn't know she was 16yrs old.
Story of my fucking life. :lol

[Scorpion88LX]

i would just like to go over 200 mph