where is the balance in this 3gee world? [Archive] - 3geez.com

dr_dohc

09-08-2003, 07:17 AM

alright guys here's the story...i just aquired a 88 lxi, 5 speed from a impound place in MN, gonna go pick it up wendsday...donno if it even works...got it for $500 with just two specs of rust...

I have money right now, about $5000 or so saved up...going to school full time and working part time at a auto parts store...the thing is, i'm gonna be graduating in about two years max...

I DONT want to spend my $5000 on the lxi cus if i was to do that, i might as well spend it on some GSX or something if i wanted speed...I'm planning on using most of that cash for a better car when i graduate in a few years...All I want is the best way/cheapest way to get my car to maybe get in the low 15's/high 14's range...

I dont under stand why some people here are talking about putting a B18c5 or even B18C in their 3 geez when thats gonna cost them up to $10,000 putting everything in...thats just stupid cus then why dont you just get a 5th gen for $3500 and drop in a H22A for a total of $6,000 or so...

Dont get me wrong, i do like the 3 geez thats why i bought one...but c'mon people...we gotta get back to earth cus I bet maybe only 5% of the 3geez population even has the funds or even wants to put a B18C in their car and spend a total of extra $5000 or so total when they got their cars for under $2000...

I do like the idea of the B20A, but daym, can't find any of those anywhere...I've looked all over google already...NOTHING...and even with the B20A, everything's gonna cost over $2,000...well, that might be my only choice if my motor's not gonna run...

So do you guys think that maybe a intake, header, exhaust and a 40 shot of nitrous is gonna get a 88lxi in the low 15's?

Immeraufdemhund

09-08-2003, 07:21 AM

ok, look in the Market place and talk to those guys seriously. YOu have the funds so get the engine and tranny from them. They are selling it for about 500 -1000. Do all the work your self to the b20a. and with some performance things added on: ie headers, exhaust, intake, cams, clean up the engine etc. etc. You'll be looking at about 2k-3k. MAYBE... could be even cheaper if you start getting connections. You work at an autoparts store ask some of the dudes their if they would put the motor in and other things too. Some of these honda people would for a reasonable price. But i'd just do it your self. Get you a buddy and hopefully between you and your buddies you have enough tools to get everything out. Check the how to on getting the engine out quickly. That's my 2 cents

shepherd79

09-08-2003, 07:35 AM

Get: 2.25" cat back, high flow cat., headers, CAI, new cams, adjustible cam gear, B16 intake manifold with bigger TB, 40-50 shot of NOS. i think that should make it low 15s.

dr_dohc

09-08-2003, 07:40 AM

I do like the idea of the motor swap...I do like N/A motors...and if the motor on my new car does't work, looks like i'll be getting a B20A and tranny for hopefully under $600 or so...anyone PLEASE HOLLAR if you know where to get one...

What are the major easy to distinct physical stuff between the right B20A and the wrong prelude B20A? That why i can ask these engine providers to see if they got the right one...

or maybe a stock used a20a for hopefully under $300...I would like f/I but daym guys...like, if you want to run like 10psi, you gotta get everything including internals and all that stuff which will total to at least $4000...CRAZY! I'm not saying thats too much for me, but thats alot to invest into a car thats over 15 years old...

like i said, if i wanted to go crazy fast, I'd just get a 240 and swap in a s14 sr20 and be under $5000 and do 13's with bolt ons...I just want a reliable nice accord that will get me rollin for the next few years...

I'm still thinking of the idea of keeping things simple for a simple car without investing more then twice what i paid for it...anyone still have any other ideas???

thanks for reading...

AccordEpicenter

09-08-2003, 03:58 PM

have you seen the amount of work it is to change over to a JDM spec engine in a 240? Everything is different... Everything from hoses to the harnesses etc its a pain in the ass. Itd be way easier to run a built turbocharged accord... and probably cheaper when its all said and done.

Immeraufdemhund

09-08-2003, 04:32 PM

read up on seans turbo and his getup. It's not like his is some sloppy thing put together in the last second. He's put a bunch of work and is making it available to us. Which is so awesome. I'm glad to see someone with both money and ideas was able to start producing affordable options of us. Read around in the FAQ's about the b20a. You'll learn all that interesting stuff about slant and numbers on the block. Check it out.

A20A1

09-08-2003, 05:22 PM

Go quad TB's like Openloop motorsports did and some sort of engine management with DIS.

The quad TB is off the B16 or B18c5 I think. then you just work on alligning the bolts and drilling new holes for the studs.

- ECU w/ DIS
- QUAD TB's
- FUEL RAIL for TB manifold
- Other???

dr_dohc

09-08-2003, 05:31 PM

are you kidding me dude...the sr is the missing link in the 240...basicly the same thing except for that its not in our 240s but in japan...dude there are people I mean by the dozen who will do all your wireing for you for a plug and play for $200 or less...the sr is a drop in affair...I had buddies who had a s14 sr in their 240 and they got 280hp at the wheels just from bolt ons and a stock turbo at 13psi...the t28 is not all that bad...

anways, I have seen what sean has done and do appreciate his work...it is a very nice kit...not bad at all...but, the whole thing is about $3,000 with a nice intercooler and everything AND if you're not gonna do your internals like for a extra grand or so and for parts to do the whole rebuilt, there seems to be not that much of a point to get that turbo...so a total of $4,000 or so...I dont see how you can call this affordable..??

well, for four grand, and you get say like close to 300 ponies or more, is gonna be great but then thats still $4,000...hmmm hmmm hmmm i donno...............hmm --> no...

I'll have to wait and see if i'll need a new motor first...and yes, now that i'm spending more time here, its becoming a home for me and I have to say, this is the most informational pact forum I've ever been to...nice work everyone...right now its T minus 36 hours till i take that ride to go pick it up...wish me luck...

A20A1

09-08-2003, 05:46 PM

Please save the nissan talk for off-topic or instant messaging. We've had enough proplems with threads being close when people start fighting over swaps and hp and how much it all costs.

dr_dohc

09-08-2003, 05:53 PM

no problem...just saying that I bought my accord cus:

1.) It was cheap
2.) Its reliable
3.) It looks good

Not because I want to run 11's and 12's...but i just want alittle bit more power in case I run into a ricey civic or some little neon or something...or if i wanted some passing power...

Not something i want to stick $4,000 into also...

pric

09-08-2003, 06:03 PM

CAI/H/E/coil/colder plugs/n2o/and a good clutch and you will be in the low 15's easy. All that for under $900 or less if you shop around. If you want a little more power with out the juice you could get a reground cam for around $160 that plus the juice you will be in the 14's. You would be amazed out how much abuse the A20A can handle. If it's in good shape.

Sean

09-08-2003, 09:41 PM

im running 12 ( i uped the boost again) psi on my daily driver on stock internals id run more if the motor was a bit younger. its been like this for well over a month of run after run after run. shit i overheated the motor to 250f at the dragstrip and never even saw knock. the thing that kills the stoke interanls( namely pistons ring lands) is detonation. now that ive got a very tight clamp on it. i actually started running 87 octane on 12psi of boost. geuss what no knock but the tempature is fairly low tonight. we will se how things look tommorow afternoon when the heat is up.

Justin86

09-08-2003, 09:47 PM

It might be cheaper to turbo it with Sean's set up then build up an all motor 15sec 3G. The turbo setup might be around $2K while the all motor might be around $3K. With the turbo don't plan on having all brand new parts and having some one do it for you. Sean's is all nice and new parts for 3K. It cost onpenloop around 2K then adding some nitrious will cost more.

A20A1

09-08-2003, 09:57 PM

I don't think you will need nitrous to get 15's

Quad tbs and an ECU setup for that will work fine... A cam, header and exhaust will need to go into the package as well... but Openloop only had a modded chip or a chip from a 4th gen... they did not have DIS. I could be wrong though.
Anyways you're still involving parts from seans ECU you're just not going turbo. And wasn't the ECU only around $600, hopefully less but I don't remember.

Openloops problem was that they couldn't ditch the rev limiter yet on the dyno's they still made power up to the limiter and were confident they could make more power past the limit. So engine management will be key, turbo or not.

Justin86

09-09-2003, 09:32 AM

Any way you do it will be bad ass. The all motor option I would trust more then a turbo set up. With the turbo you are more like to be breaking stuff.

NXRacer

09-09-2003, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by dr_dohc
alright guys here's the story...i just aquired a 88 lxi, 5 speed from a impound place in MN, gonna go pick it up wendsday...donno if it even works...got it for $500 with just two specs of rust...

I have money right now, about $5000 or so saved up...going to school full time and working part time at a auto parts store...the thing is, i'm gonna be graduating in about two years max...

I DONT want to spend my $5000 on the lxi cus if i was to do that, i might as well spend it on some GSX or something if i wanted speed...I'm planning on using most of that cash for a better car when i graduate in a few years...All I want is the best way/cheapest way to get my car to maybe get in the low 15's/high 14's range...

You're gonna be hard pressed to get into the 14's w/out some serious mods. You MIGHT be able to get there with NOS but you better have a strong motor.

I dont under stand why some people here are talking about putting a B18c5 or even B18C in their 3 geez when thats gonna cost them up to $10,000 putting everything in...thats just stupid cus then why dont you just get a 5th gen for $3500 and drop in a H22A for a total of $6,000 or so...

$10,000 for a b motor swap? HAH. You MIGHT spend half that.

Where the hell are you gonna find a 5th gen for 3500 bucks? You better plan on spending almost twice that just for the car. Then another 2K at least for a motor swap.

Dont get me wrong, i do like the 3 geez thats why i bought one...but c'mon people...we gotta get back to earth cus I bet maybe only 5% of the 3geez population even has the funds or even wants to put a B18C in their car and spend a total of extra $5000 or so total when they got their cars for under $2000...

I do like the idea of the B20A, but daym, can't find any of those anywhere...I've looked all over google already...NOTHING...and even with the B20A, everything's gonna cost over $2,000...well, that might be my only choice if my motor's not gonna run...

you can find em. You just have to call to the JDM engine importers. This motor is in such low demand that 99% of the importers won't put it on their web site. There are a few places that have em. Openloop, GSpeed and a few others. Just have to call around.

So do you guys think that maybe a intake, header, exhaust and a 40 shot of nitrous is gonna get a 88lxi in the low 15's?

you'll have to do more then I/H/E to get there with N2O. Better plan on upgrading your ignition (MSD etc) at least. And plan on using a higher shot of N2O too. If you're motor is running strong and doesnt have an assload of miles on it, you could go as high as 75 shot if you use a wet kit (like Nitrous Express).

dr_dohc

09-09-2003, 11:05 AM

$10,000 for a b motor swap? HAH. You MIGHT spend half that.Where the hell are you gonna find a 5th gen for 3500 bucks? You better plan on spending almost twice that just for the car. Then another 2K at least for a motor swap.

my apoligies...when i said $10,000, I ment for the B18C5...

$4500 for a nice motor
$400 to ship
$600 for custom mounts
probably an extra $2,000 or so to make everything work and add on some bolt ons...thats like in the $7,000 to $10000 grand range already...

dude, maybe i'm mistaken for my accord gens but isn't a 94-97 the fifth gen? if its not then sorry...but TRUST ME, i've seen plenty of higher milage accords with bodies in still good condition for $3000 to $4000...EASY...another $2500 and whoala...nice accord with H22A for $6500 or less...

there is a difference between high and low 14's by the way...like i said, high 14's and low 15's is good enough for me...a 40 shot shouldn't be that bad should it? a couple degree's of retard timing, colder plugs, ??? but no, i didn't know our a20a could take a 75 shot if its still strong...i was guessing maybe 60 tops...40 to be safe...???

only wish that our motor was as supported as the freakin B series motors....daym you can find a turbo manifold for those things for $250 or less brand new! jeez...if that was the case, we all could put together our own little small turbo kit for under $1500 i bet...

NXRacer

09-09-2003, 11:11 AM

You could easily run a 75 shot of NX on a low mileage a20. Hell, my buddy is running a 55 shot on a HYUNDAI accent with over 120k. He's run 6 bottles through it and no problems so far.

You obviously havent done much looking around in the forum. Sean has been working on a turbo setup for the a20 for a while now. He's got a basic setup going for around 1600 and a full-blown-all-you-need setup for around 2500. A LOT of his blood sweat and tears has gone into that project and its been showing some pretty nice numbers. Of course if you had somethings made yourself (like manifold and charge pipes) and already had a turbo you could get it for cheaper.

dr_dohc

09-09-2003, 11:53 AM

well you're right I haven't been looking around all everywhere yet but I have done alot of looking around here already...much more to come...and i'm not dissin sean's turbo kit...i'm sure its a nice turbo set up...but i'm just tryin to get back to the basics of how much is really needed to spend?

$2500 is not just a small pocket change my friend...and yes i understand turbo's are not cheap and it takes money to go fast but i'm not asking to go fast here...just some pick up...

just asking the question, what does it take to get alittle speed from our 3geez...anyways, i'll let u all know how it goes when i pick her up tomorrow...

NXRacer

09-09-2003, 12:07 PM

You'll notice a HUGE difference in speed when you upgrade its breathing ability. Put a cold air intake on it (home made version is like 30 bucks) and either or both exhaust/header. You'll notice quite a difference just doing that.

3rd GEN

09-09-2003, 10:03 PM

the reason why some of us ( liek me) want to drop in a b18c in our cars instead of gettin a newer car for the same amount of cash.. is cuz...

why have a car that everyone else and their dog has...
i mean.. have you seen how many god damn civics there is out there..or tegs for that matter...

for someof us...like me, it's for the uniqness of our cars.. like how many times do you see a really nice slammed 3g... like never...
and for me.. i like to be different.. and have a car that no one else has... that will spank the shit outta some Sir, or some Teg or some shit...then everyone will be like " whoa damn!!!"

thats just my perspective,...

88accordhatchdx

09-09-2003, 10:04 PM

:werd: Very well said

deadlight

09-09-2003, 11:05 PM

Look at it this way, You keep talking about an Accord with an H22A swap, a 3G could still smoke it, read Sean's racing story post and he ran dead even with a Civic running an H22A, now, a 4th/5th gen Accord will weigh more than a Civic, so you're taking, 3K range for the Accord at a good price, and 2500-3000 for H22A, how does that outweigh the cost of A turboed 3G, Sean is still running stock internals at that if I'm right. Plus, 3rd gen made a good point, look at the styling of the 3g, it's a beautiful car, I don't care what anybody says, and wouldn't it be nice to stand out from the crowd of 92+ Civics?

dr_dohc

09-10-2003, 06:24 PM

Ofcourse there's always the "being orginal" statement, i can respect that...But i still can't see the fact of putting $5000+ grand into a car thats quite old...well, maybe down south where you guys live, 3 gens are still in pretty good shape...daym up north, 95% are rusted to the point where you dont want to waste your time fixing up rust anymore...

well like I said, I bought one today cus I DO like the way it looks, especially the coupe...

The reason why I'd rather put $6500 into a 5th gen with a H22A instead of a full turbo with fully built A20A for the same price is the ride and the new car and N/A power of the H22A my friends...Even if it only does mid 14's with bolt ons...c'mon, SERIOUSLY, the reason why I'm bringing up this thread about balance for some of us is that do you guys really see any point in putting so much money in a old car? Anyways, like i said, maybe I just dont value older cars that much cus i live up north and they're all rusted up...

I went to pick up my 88LXI coupe today...took me 5 hours to dive back from metatonka MN to central WI...we jump started it and it started but seems like the clutch wont disengage...meaning when the car is off, it will go in all gears, but then when we have it at one...we then pressed the clutch to start the motor, its still at one...then when we try to put it to nuetral, it wont go to nuetral when its started...:mad: any ideas? Probably work on it this weekend...

a few buddies said that maybe the pressure plate is bad??? or is it just that the cable needs to be adjusted???

Sean

09-10-2003, 06:44 PM

cable could be broken. also the diagphram on the pressure plate could be colapsed

zero.counter

09-10-2003, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by dr_dohc
Ofcourse there's always the "being orginal" statement, i can respect that...But i still can't see the fact of putting $5000+ grand into a car thats quite old...
Oh, so that explains the hobbies of hot rodders and car restorers right?????
Maybe they love their old cars so much, that rebuilding to their pristine condition or even throwing some extra goodies in their might be on their minds.

BTW, a 240 swap with car and (s14 motor) will cost you more than $5k. Unless you have a hookup for parts and do the work yourself, but if you go mainstream market, it will be higher.

A lot of reasons why some like to mod the 3geez, is to get that "double take" effect from people when the old rust bucket does something unexpected. It's strictly a matter of opinion on what they want to do.

As for your thoughts, that's great. If you don't want to drop wads of cash and have other ideas then good for you. Just perform the regular interval maintenance on it and you have yourself a reliable car. Leave the passions and dreams of others here on the board out of your equation, because you would not like anyone doing that to you. We are here to help each other and give ideas so lets keep it that way.

Have a nice day! :)

deadlight

09-10-2003, 08:15 PM

dr_dohc

09-11-2003, 04:48 AM

I don't get where you come up with a 3g being an "old car", and the 4th gen not being one was there really that much of a difference in a car's age between 89 and 90? and my old car is still MY old car, if I want to make it fast I can, because it's MINE, and if I want to wrap my car around a telephone pole, I will because it's MINE, and I love my car, that's what it all comes down to, just because I drive an "old car" by some peoples standards, does not make it a waste of time to mod it out, look at this site, do you think an old, pointless, car devoid of any possibility of being nice would garner a following like this? C'mon man, I don't see Nissan sites like this.

Dude are you kiddin me? Honda's on their 7th gen accord and you still think the 3rd gen is still pretty new? well comparing to 69 mustangs and stuff their still pretty new but c'mon man...we're talking about something being 15 years old...

Dude I never said you couldn't make YOUR old car go fast...be my guest...I was just asking why you guys wanted to put so much money into these cars and you guys answered my question quite clearly...I on the other hand, just sayin I'd rather get something else if I was gonna spend $5000+ or so money on a car...so am the only guy here that feels this way???

I'm just suprize that many of you talk as if your car runs 12's when theres only a hand full and when most people say they dont got money...then i'm here gettin people tellin me they'd put that much money in this car...

and like I said, maybe If I lived down south where cars dont rust all the time or if I have my own house with a two car garage where I can store a 3gee over winter, then maybe I'd value the cars more, not saying that I dont....but up north, if you dont garage your car over winter, i'm tellin ya, they get pretty messed up...

I bet you've never been to freshalloy.com before...Well, I've had two prelude Vtecs, a 240, I've been to plenty of forums and this is the best small community I've been to but dude, I bet you have no idea how devoted nissan fans are to their cars...

dr_dohc

09-11-2003, 04:57 AM

As for your thoughts, that's great. If you don't want to drop wads of cash and have other ideas then good for you. Just perform the regular interval maintenance on it and you have yourself a reliable car. Leave the passions and dreams of others here on the board out of your equation, because you would not like anyone doing that to you. We are here to help each other and give ideas so lets keep it that way.

Well i just came in here (with this thread) wondering why you guys are doin so much mad mods to your cars and i got the answers load and clear...

...like i said like 4 times now, I dont know where you guys are from but I'm glad your cars are still in good conditions...I dare anyone to find a car in 3gee in MN or WI for sale that is not rusted up...and I'm sure you know that the only true way to fix up rust is to cut and weld...if you bodo things up, up north, it only takes one winter to make everything fall off again...

now to think of it, and after I've been around my new coupe, if i'd just get my hands on a nice 3gee coupe without any rust or anything, I think i'd just go nutz too...

pric

09-11-2003, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by dr_dohc
Well i just came in here (with this thread) wondering why you guys are doin so much mad mods to your cars and i got the answers load and clear...

...like i said like 4 times now, I dont know where you guys are from but I'm glad your cars are still in good conditions...I dare anyone to find a car in 3gee in MN or WI for sale that is not rusted up...and I'm sure you know that the only true way to fix up rust is to cut and weld...if you bodo things up, up north, it only takes one winter to make everything fall off again...

now to think of it, and after I've been around my new coupe, if i'd just get my hands on a nice 3gee coupe without any rust or anything, I think i'd just go nutz too...

Drive south there are tons of 3rd gen accords down here with no rust and cheap.

Immeraufdemhund

09-11-2003, 08:09 PM

i'll vouch for the up north thing. I lived in Hibbing MN for 13 years. I'm still wondering why in the world my dad got the 99 trans am and drive it in winter... first winter he did that he put that thing in a tree.... oh well. Yah the salt and sand and snow just kills your car. You'd have to wash the thing daily in the winter to keep the rust off. I understand your concernes about the car being up north and all. Fact is i'd rather NOT have a honda up north because it would get turned into garbage within a couple of months. I'd rather get somethign that doesn't matter if it's in a junk yard or not..... I guess i feel that the only way i'll get a car that i'm going to keep and fix up is if i stay down south, but i'm still a yankee at heart... hmm now i'm just off.... i miss the snow

deadlight

09-11-2003, 08:46 PM

dr_dohc

09-12-2003, 04:19 AM

I didn't say the 3G wasn't that old, I asked you what made the 3g an old car and what made the 4g not, 89-90, Is that the cut off dates for an old/new car and I wasn't aware of it? And yes, I'm sure nissan does have a good following, actually I know it does, it's one of few other manufacturers that I like, but you're making it sound like a 3g is pointless, who is anyone to judge what car isn't worth time or money. And the real reason we're broke and say we put money into our cars, is because we already put all of our money into our cars, therefore, there is none left for anything else, making us all broke.

Well, now a days, with so much new stuff comin out, to me, an 15 year old car is kinda on the "older" side to me...about the 3rd gen being pointless, I never ment it to be that way...why do u think i bought just a few days ago? I gave my 3 reasons why I bought it...maybe from me being bias from living up north, I just dont think they're worth putting $5,000 into if they're already mostly junked up and they only way to fix rust is costing $300+ for each little section...

I actually got to drive my car yesterday...its at my buddies house right now, he's been a machanic for like 20 years since he was like 15...anyways, we're pretty sure the pressure plate and the clutch is shot...it wasn't to the point where you couldn't drive it AT ALL, so i took it for alittle drive around the block, I have to admit, that A20A is pretty quick, even for a stock motor with 180K on it...

deadlight

09-12-2003, 09:14 AM

Well if you didn't think it's worth putting money like that into it, that's fine then. You can do whatever you want to whatever car you want, but this is OUR car. I'm glad you appreciate it and all but you need to realize some of us want to put money into these cars because these are the cars we like and that we want to put money into. I don't see why you'd want to put all that money into a 240 sx and you don't see why I'd want to put all my money into my 3g, but who cares? We can't all think alike man. We'll do our thing and you do yours. Plain and simple.

zero.counter

09-13-2003, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by dr_dohc
I bet you've never been to freshalloy.com before...Well, I've had two prelude Vtecs, a 240, I've been to plenty of forums and this is the best small community I've been to but dude, I bet you have no idea how devoted nissan fans are to their cars...
HaHa :lol , I post there and on Zilvia.net as well. The only thing I am devoted to is my family. I do however have hobbies, one being that I love working on cars in my spare time. But you are right, rust is pretty scarce around here.

1988_5spd_lxi

09-15-2003, 07:16 PM

I love my accord more that any body on this site But, rus mess it up. i live in new york i have a 88 lxi i love it but the (L and r) back finder is rust out. my uncle cut the rust out and is taken for ever to fix it. because of that i want to buy a 92 civic. i will not till the car can't drive any more. I have pic of the rust will make a new post on it. i will paint the car black. If i had the money i would do a b20a swap with turbo and ram air scoop. I thick our car is hot, is look great, it can beat a 92 civic dx cx any day. but some times i want something up to date, were i can put tons of money and don't have to worry about rust messing it all up.