View Full Version : clutch's and what we need for big power
what needs to happen is act,clutch masters,ram etc need to start seeing a demand from us at 3g's for high strength clutches.ive talked with ram already it very possiable if our flywheels share similar dimensions with existing premade hard ware they might be able to easily make us a high strength revolution clutch. the revolution is the newest clutch its very very very strong. so thats whats up. what prompts this whole thing is that my turbo makes so much tq the clutch cant keep up.
Vinny
09-24-2003, 07:56 AM
Post a pic of the old clutch in your trunk Sean (or send me one and I'll host it), thats some wicked stuff
"this is your clutch, this is you clutch with a Turbo, see the difference???????"
Its getting old playing the lil support game, hopefully you can get the help we talked about to get some of this done. If anyone can I'm bettin you can. WE NEED PARTS
NXRacer
09-24-2003, 10:04 AM
hey sean, ACT already makes 4 and 6 puck race clutches, as well as heavy duty stock style clutches with heavy duty pressure plates.
Heavy Duty Pressure Plate / 4 Pad Race Disc (HDR4)
ACT HA2-HDR4 (86-89) Max Torque 256 ft-lbs, 40% stiffer pedal MSRP $331.30 HPFreaks - $251.71
Heavy Duty Pressure Plate / 6 Pad Race Disc (HDR6)
ACT HA2-HDR6 86-89 (Max torque 256 ft-lbs, 40% stiffer pedal) MSRP $350.30 HPFreaks $274.46
Heavy Duty Pressure Plate / ACT Performance Street Disc (HDSS)
ACT HA2-HDSS (86-89) (Max torque 243 ft-lbs, 55% stiffer pedal) MSRP $355.80 HPFreaks $270.33
Heavy Duty Pressure Plate / Stock Disc (HDOO)
ACT HA2-HD00 86-89 (Max torque 200 ft-lbs, 40% stiffer pedal) MSRP $285.80 HPFreaks $235.36
UNORTHODOX also offers high performance clutches for our cars as well:
Ultra Grip - Stage 1 Solid Hub, Full Face Kevlar
UNOR 070600200 (86-89) 2.0L MSRP $499.00 HPFreaks $449.10
Ultra Grip - Stage 1 Solid Hub, Windowed Kevlar
UNOR 070600201 (86-89) 2.0L MSRP $499.00 HPFreaks $449.10
Ultra Grip - Stage 2 Solid Hub, 4 Puck Ceramic
UNOR 070610204 (86-89) 2.0L MSRP $409.00 HPFreaks $368.10
For detailed info on all clutches listed go to www.horsepowerfeaks.com.
i already have the act 6 puck and heavy duty pressure plate. theres a great queen song: another one bites the dust.
NXRacer
09-24-2003, 10:35 AM
maybe upgrade to the 4puck? or maybe the unorthodox ceramic pad. Or do you think its the pressure plate thats not holding? ACT makes an Xtreme pressure plate, but i'm not sure if they make it for the 3rd gen.
4 puc would be less bite overall as it has reduced surface area.they will not make an extreme pressure plate. already beeged for that.
NXRacer
09-24-2003, 10:44 AM
have you talked to unorthodox about theirs? They say their stage 2 is for large turbo upgrades.......
AccordEpicenter
09-24-2003, 01:56 PM
hmmmm... they are very expensive
NXRacer
09-24-2003, 02:05 PM
They are expensive, but you gotta spend the money to handle the power. Look at it this way, that turbo kit is DIRT FUCKING CHEAP. at the price sean is asking for the kit, you can afford to spend a little money on a more expensive clutch. why have all that power if you cant go anywhere??
Originally posted by NXRacer
They are expensive, but you gotta spend the money to handle the power. Look at it this way, that turbo kit is DIRT FUCKING CHEAP. at the price sean is asking for the kit, you can afford to spend a little money on a more expensive clutch. why have all that power if you cant go anywhere??
amen brother. i think im gonna get ram to build a full metalic disc and mix it with an increased grip plate. after a phone conversation earlier they think itll hold 350ft tq.
NXRacer
09-24-2003, 04:04 PM
how much are they gonna want for it? And what exactly do you think your current clutch problems are related to? weak pressure plate or weak disc or both?
Also 4 pucs have less surface, but thats what they use for high power race applications. that would lead me to conclude there's something right about 4 pucks as apposed to a full disc.........
for real high power most are 6-8 puck. 4 puc is the smoothest engaging of the puc clutches
AccordEpicenter
09-24-2003, 07:27 PM
yea but dont they wear out faster than 6 or 8 puck clutches?
the 4 puc wears out faster and also doenst have as much grip
I found a local clutch builder here in detriot who thinks he can build my clutch both stronger and better then ram did. His price is hard to argue with so I'll give it a whirl. As always if anybody wants to contribute to r&d
Send 1,000,000 dollars to me and ill be glad to make all kind of kooky stuff !!
sean out
J/K
Vinny
09-26-2003, 12:37 PM
Check in the mail my brother, got it from selling a bridge to some guy. You know me, too much time on my hands now a days, and kooky stuff is always good
ill be waiting for that check.
Justin86
09-27-2003, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Sean
i already have the act 6 puck and heavy duty pressure plate. theres a great queen song: another one bites the dust.
Shit man, and all on stock internals. :D
89AccordLvr
09-27-2003, 02:11 PM
soooo.. so far whats the best clutch to get with a turbo application that can be daily driven easily
Justin86
09-28-2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by 89AccordLvr
soooo.. so far whats the best clutch to get with a turbo application that can be daily driven easily
Well Sean allready got the best clutch and it still didn't hold. :D
well the problem was getting a stronger pressure plate. i spent alot of time the past few days scaring up a few b series flywheels. it looks like with a tiny bit of machine work and some parts swapping it might be possiable to use like a b series flywheel. if thats the case then it opens the door for us to get the drag quality clutchs that all the riceboys can get.
NXRacer
10-01-2003, 11:16 AM
thats tight man. what keeps it from going on?
Justin86
10-01-2003, 08:05 PM
Pretty sweet. :)
the fact that theres gonna be machine work involved and the ring gear is a cunt hair bigger. ive got alot of homework to do on this before im saying shit but it looks doable.
AccordEpicenter
10-02-2003, 04:28 AM
is it possible to redrill and tap out new pressure plate bolts to adapt a b series clutch? It sounds like trying to adapt a b series flywheel is a pain. Id think youd need to worry about transmission clearance in either instance tho... what do u think
Justin86
10-02-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by AccordEpicenter
is it possible to redrill and tap out new pressure plate bolts to adapt a b series clutch? It sounds like trying to adapt a b series flywheel is a pain. Id think youd need to worry about transmission clearance in either instance tho... what do u think
Yea it sounds like it would be easier to redrill holes on the pressure plate.
AccordEpicenter
10-03-2003, 05:10 AM
that or redrilling the flywheel to accept new pressure plate bolts
Dionysis24bt
10-05-2003, 08:15 AM
Sean I think that the 6 Puck ACT clutch should be way more than enough to hold your Accord. I don't think your Accord running on low boost, makes more torque than my friends 425whp Twin Turbo 300ZX. This clutch held up to numerous 4000 to 4500rpm lanches at the track, I know cause I do the driving mostly. Plus of course you know you get more traction at the track than on the street. Tires will break traction before your cluch will loose grip on the street due to road dirt and etc., at the track I've seen axles and rear-ends break before the trans. and clutch. This clutch has lasted through it all. He tried Centerforce, Clutch Masters, Unorthodox, you name it he's had it. ACT are the best clutches on the market unless you start talking about Twin and Triple plate setups and other outrageous things that cost an arm and a leg. Seriously consider getting another 6 Puck and trying it out before you abandon them. The 300ZX clutch has been in and running for 2yrs. now.
AZmike
10-05-2003, 10:21 AM
The ACT clutch isn't enough.
Originally posted by Sean
i already have the act 6 puck and heavy duty pressure plate. theres a great queen song: another one bites the dust.
Obviously there are some differences between the 300ZX clutch design and the Accord clutch design from ACT. If one car makes ~120 hp stock and another makes ~300 hp stock, why would any of the clutch components be the same?
well the b16 b18 clutch are 8.5 not 8 inchs in diameter like the a20a so theres a beneifit. they also make extreme duty pressure plates for the b's but they wont for the a20. the a20 uses a really oddball flywheel its got a stepped design to it. if the b can be easily adapted then im all for it.
Justin86
10-05-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Dionysis24bt
Sean I think that the 6 Puck ACT clutch should be way more than enough to hold your Accord. I don't think your Accord running on low boost, makes more torque than my friends 425whp Twin Turbo 300ZX. This clutch held up to numerous 4000 to 4500rpm lanches at the track, I know cause I do the driving mostly. Plus of course you know you get more traction at the track than on the street. Tires will break traction before your cluch will loose grip on the street due to road dirt and etc., at the track I've seen axles and rear-ends break before the trans. and clutch. This clutch has lasted through it all. He tried Centerforce, Clutch Masters, Unorthodox, you name it he's had it. ACT are the best clutches on the market unless you start talking about Twin and Triple plate setups and other outrageous things that cost an arm and a leg. Seriously consider getting another 6 Puck and trying it out before you abandon them. The 300ZX clutch has been in and running for 2yrs. now.
Well the problem with the 6 puck is that ACT dosen't make a strong enough pressure plate. Really it is the pressure plate that does most of the work. Ask you friend and I bet you he has a pressure plate and clutch disc that is rated much higher then the 265 tq ACT that Sean had. I have a stock disc and ACT heavy duty pressure plate and it is rated at 200 tq. Sean probably will need one that can hold up to at leats 350 tq.
Dionysis24bt
10-07-2003, 04:01 AM
AZMIKE are you saying that the clutch for the 300ZX and Accord are made of two diffferent types of materials or that one clutch has more diameter than the other. I personally didn't see any difference between mine and his, besides size of course. Both of us have heavy-duty pressure plates and 6 puck disc, same number of splines in the pressure plate also. By the way how much torque is SEAN making on what 12 psi to 15psi. Should not be more that 256ft.-lbs. Hey if possible, SEAN could use the ACT disc with this company names SPEC's xtreme pressure plate if you can do that, I don't see why he couldn't. Pressure plate is said to hold up to 326ft.-lbs., tey also make a fly-wheel for our cars I think there like 8.5 to 9lbs. Web site is www.nipponpower.com!!!!!!!!!!
AZmike
10-08-2003, 07:02 PM
I meant that the diaphram springs may be different and the increased diameter of the 300ZX clutch disc gives it an advantage at torque handling (or reduces the clamping force required by the pressure plate). I'd agree that the ACT disc may be fine if the pressure plate is replaced with one that produces a greater clamping force.
4sillypwr
10-08-2003, 07:26 PM
Sean if you could figure out a way to get a b series flywheel and clutch onto the a20 I would bow to you. The a20 flywheel weighs a ton.
Justin86
10-09-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Dionysis24bt
AZMIKE are you saying that the clutch for the 300ZX and Accord are made of two diffferent types of materials or that one clutch has more diameter than the other. I personally didn't see any difference between mine and his, besides size of course. Both of us have heavy-duty pressure plates and 6 puck disc, same number of splines in the pressure plate also. By the way how much torque is SEAN making on what 12 psi to 15psi. Should not be more that 256ft.-lbs. Hey if possible, SEAN could use the ACT disc with this company names SPEC's xtreme pressure plate if you can do that, I don't see why he couldn't. Pressure plate is said to hold up to 326ft.-lbs., tey also make a fly-wheel for our cars I think there like 8.5 to 9lbs. Web site is www.nipponpower.com!!!!!!!!!!
Yea I don't know how Sean is making his clutch slip so bad. The ACT is rated at 256ft.-lbs??? and his hp figures were at 200hp. His tq can't too much higher then that. But if he wants to get an much better clutch so when he builds up the internals and is running +20 PSI then that is cool.
4sillypwr
10-09-2003, 07:10 PM
I think he said something about 250 tq. could explain the breaking the clutch. 250 is friggen close to 265
those clutch figure are rated at the flywheel. im making 215 + throughout the rev band at the wheels. figuring for a 15-20% loss i could be in the 270 tq at the flywheel i saw a peak of 250hp but i thionk it could have been compressor surge or the clutch began to slip when it started making 250 at the wheels. i dont know but theres a funny look to my tq curve that makes me belive its slipping during the pulls. not to mention that it does slip.
Vinny
10-10-2003, 04:46 AM
I'll attest to the slipping first hand and its still hella fast
Justin86
10-10-2003, 09:21 AM
Ok now I got some more numbers to understand what is going on. :)
Johnny O
10-13-2003, 06:45 PM
An Act 4-puck Heavy duty worked well for me,but not friendly for a street driven car,but a 6-puck has a little less engagement not harsh on the tranny and leg.The Act clutch is fine until you start making big hp.
bboipinoy112
10-13-2003, 09:28 PM
i herd ACT sucks .. EXCEDY is better .. i wouldnt know .. but im looking to by a clutch .. since my 3g is in the gerage auto trannied out .. and 5spd trannied in soon .. >? ?
the 4 puc is a joke. you keep forgettig my car with me in it wieghs like 2800lbs.as for the 6puc having less holding power. LOL. that ignores the must fundemental of mechanical engineering. by reducing surface area you increa grip. what actually happens is that the iron face on the pressure plate deforms around the clutch pucs.its doesnt actually hold better. it more or less deforms into a mechanical lock. id rather ge a high holding pressure plate and more aggrsive friction material.
sooner or later if you keep revving a deformed pressure plate it explodes. and that is one severly ugly scene
2old_honda
10-13-2003, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by bboipinoy112
i herd ACT sucks .. EXCEDY is better .. i wouldnt know .. but im looking to by a clutch .. since my 3g is in the gerage auto trannied out .. and 5spd trannied in soon .. >? ?
Exedy actually makes clutches for ACT
bboipinoy112
10-13-2003, 09:47 PM
oh .. sorry i didnt kno .. actually dont kno jack shit for clutches .. since im just starting to learn about it from doing this swap
2old_honda
10-13-2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by bboipinoy112
oh .. sorry i didnt kno .. actually dont kno jack shit for clutches .. since im just starting to learn about it from doing this swap
you are right tho. some people were having problems with pressure plates taking a crap on them with only a few thousand miles on it. it seems like ACT had a bad batch of pressure plates.
act was having issues with pressure plate eh ? i wonder if thats what up with mine ? never mind tha fact im damn sure im exceeding the rated capacity
2old_honda
10-13-2003, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Sean
act was having issues with pressure plate eh ? i wonder if thats what up with mine ? never mind tha fact im damn sure im exceeding the rated capacity
Do a search on http://www.honda-tech.com there were some people having problems.
here is a thread about it:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=581148
well after reading all that man im really wondering just how bad the quality there is. ive been hearing alot of grumbling about act. shame i wasted $435 dollars to find this out. anyways i think ive found a soudtion. im gonna let the local cltuch builders take a sot at it and see if they can beef the fucking thing up. i also forgot to mention that the 6 puc is about 1/2 inches smaller then the totaly avaiable diameter on the flywheel and pressure plate. i think im gonna look into getting a few disc's laser cut and friction'd up the way i want them since its not the exspnsive to do. maybe ill just build a cltuch and get a pressure plate modified. that seems like a better way to go on this. i cou also goto a 12 puc layout which should offer a much smoother engagment and even more holding power with a stock pressure plate. ill put some of the brain trust to work tommorow on this and see what we can come up with. for god sake 5 mechanical engineers and a few hardcore car builders should be able to figure this out. screw act, clutchmasters etc. if they wont build what i want ill build it myself.
jezzz its like everything else in 3geez world.
Scorpion88LX
10-14-2003, 10:42 AM
thats right MEs are the shit. Thats what i am studing for.
4sillypwr
10-14-2003, 12:18 PM
haha i'm studying to be a ME too. If you ever get that clutch figured out sean make one for me too. :)
jagojon3
10-14-2003, 12:22 PM
I would have to agree! Been studyin ME for 3 years now and hopefully I'll get a job with an auto company doin some crazy ass shit
well i started laying out the cad drawings tonight. i shod be able to get the discs laser cut soon.im gonna have to call act or one of them to buy a few hubs UGH. but at least i did find a much better friction material and a way to stresss relive the disc without such a hardsh engament. ill keep you posted.
Dibbs
10-15-2003, 04:18 AM
Originally posted by Scorpion88LX
thats right MEs are the shit.
:werd:
Degrees in Mechanical AND Chemical Eng. here :flip:
I think it's going to be hard to get a job for a car company. I just recently tried to get a job at Honda R&D as an underbody design engineer and I barely got a response with my credentials. Oh well, I'm not stopping now.
getting a job at a car company is all about the shizzle. its really who you know not how much you know. thats why i take engineers with a grain of salt.
Vinny
10-15-2003, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by Sean
getting a job at a car company is all about the shizzle. its really who you know not how much you know. thats why i take engineers with a grain of salt.
You knopw thats no lie there. I hate dealing with our eingineers, they are some clueless MF's
Justin86
10-15-2003, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Dibbie
:werd:
Degrees in Mechanical AND Chemical Eng. here :flip:
I think it's going to be hard to get a job for a car company. I just recently tried to get a job at Honda R&D as an underbody design engineer and I barely got a response with my credentials. Oh well, I'm not stopping now.
I'm working on my Forstery Engineering and probably getting ASE certified on the side. I need to learn more about the electrial in cars.
4sillypwr
10-15-2003, 06:45 PM
Hey sean I just talked to someone on the crx resource who is using a 87 prelude si clutch disc with a 90 crx si pressure plate and flywheel. This is in an 88 crx tranny wich has the oddball 21 spline input shaft. It seems possible that you could make a 88 crx clutch disc work in our clutches. There is a lot more support out there for that kind of clutch. I have a prelude clutch laying around but no crx one at the moment so i can't compare and confirm. it's sounds like it might be a possabilty though.
seriously im gonna get my 12 puc discs made. if anybodys interested they not gonna be cheap but they'll be 10x better then the shit out there now. and i mean that stuff out there is shit.
4sillypwr
10-16-2003, 05:09 AM
How much is a lot?
the disc are gonna be close to $200 id imagine
Justin86
10-16-2003, 10:16 AM
Yea $200 for the disc, then you still need a pressure plate.
yes youd still need a pressure plate. im not sure that the disc is gonna cost $200 yet. im waiting to here back on the cost of pucs and instilation. plus the laser cutting. i gotta buy the steel to have it cut. steel aint cheap you know.
Justin86
10-16-2003, 11:12 AM
Don't you wish money grew on trees.
well after lots of thought i decided on a type of spring steel. hopefully till help reduce chatter. the hubs im not sure if act will sell them to me directly but im gonna try
Dibbs
10-16-2003, 11:40 AM
A "type" of spring steel? Just curious...
Justin86
10-16-2003, 05:08 PM
Just wondering but what clutch/pressure plate do 88turboaccord and JonnyQ have. JonnyQ is running low 11's high 10's on some kind of great clutch/pressure plate.
2old_honda
10-16-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Justin86
JonnyQ is running low 11's high 10's on some kind of great clutch/pressure plate.
He wont say. I think he did mention that it was a custom ACT at one point tho.
im sure it slips like a bitch. this clutch will grab so hard itll break your head off. im hopping it doesnt break my trans apart.
Dibbs
10-17-2003, 05:35 AM
PM Sean.
Justin86
10-17-2003, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by Sean
im sure it slips like a bitch. this clutch will grab so hard itll break your head off. im hopping it doesnt break my trans apart.
Ouch:crying: Now we are back to the topic of building up the tranny to be strong enough. Just more $$$. Well hopefully you don't go through too many trannys.
NXRacer
10-17-2003, 09:10 AM
it seems to me that unless we're gonna run some crazy numbers like sean and johnny o we won't have much of a problem with our tranny's.
4sillypwr
10-17-2003, 06:19 PM
It would be intereseting to know where our trannies breaking point is. Sean- do you have an lsd? After you get the clutch holding good I bet money you break a couple axles:)
Justin86
10-17-2003, 06:42 PM
Well I now that 88turboaccord has gone through at least one tranny. With enough miles on it under boost that SOB will break.
Elijah
10-24-2003, 01:55 AM
Can someone tell me whats wrong with center force.It holds up nice for me.I run a 75 shot and no problems.
Elijah
10-24-2003, 01:56 AM
My biggest prob is hooking up.
im makinbg 3x the stock power.
Justin86
10-24-2003, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by Elijah
Can someone tell me whats wrong with center force.It holds up nice for me.I run a 75 shot and no problems.
Well what is the hold capacity of the CenterForce. My ACT is 200tq and I was going to add a 55 shot but I spent the money on other stuff higher on my priority list.
Elijah
10-27-2003, 05:07 PM
I don't even know what the capacity is of my cluch the shop put it in when they did my 5 speed swap.
Justin86
10-27-2003, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Elijah
I don't even know what the capacity is of my cluch the shop put it in when they did my 5 speed swap.
Well you might want to find out. Check online.
AccordEpicenter
11-03-2003, 07:02 PM
sean what about a stage 5 clutch? Harsh engagement but ive never seen anything thatll handle over 250lb ft then that... spec and act make them i think? Its a puck clutch with a solid hub...
Justin86
11-04-2003, 11:36 AM
I don't think they make them for the 3g. And i belive Sean whats a more streetable clutch. Then there is the twin clutch set ups for the serious power freaks.
AccordEpicenter
11-05-2003, 06:31 AM
yeah they do... like 2 or 3 companies do, and they all hold over 400lbft of torque... Probably not that streetable tho
AccordEpicenter
11-05-2003, 06:31 AM
yeah they do... like 2 or 3 companies do, and they all hold over 400lbft of torque... Probably not that streetable tho
4sillypwr
11-05-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by AccordEpicenter
yeah they do... like 2 or 3 companies do, and they all hold over 400lbft of torque... Probably not that streetable tho
Link please?
Justin86
11-05-2003, 12:06 PM
Clutch masters is one company.
Johnny O
11-05-2003, 06:42 PM
A 4 puck engages more harsh than a 6 or 8 puckwhich is more streetable.The 4 puck will hold a lot of power.It does not slip it grabs all the way though the run.I been lucky and not gone through trannys.
Illicit3rdgenRacer
11-05-2003, 08:20 PM
hey sean i wanna know what kind of axles are you using, did you have custom ones made or are you still using stock ones. ???
Justin86
11-05-2003, 09:45 PM
I'm sure he is using all stock. Maybe JonnyQ has custom axles???
Johnny O
11-06-2003, 06:46 PM
I still use a stock axles,I would like to use a half-shaft and get rid of the long driver side axle.Drive shaft shop makes a set,but also factory Honda axles are strong.
Justin86
11-06-2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by Johnny O
I still use a stock axles,I would like to use a half-shaft and get rid of the long driver side axle.Drive shaft shop makes a set,but also factory Honda axles are strong.
How much power are you putting through those special stock axles.
Johnny O
11-09-2003, 07:01 PM
Some where around 400 hp with the added tuning and change of intake and also turned up boost.
Justin86
11-09-2003, 10:17 PM
Sweet! :D
right now im using stock axles. i got intouch with some folks who can beef the pressure plate up a bunch. also looking into a shattered iron friction material but its longervity leaves alot to be questioned.
the shattered iron holds like crazy but it doesnt wear very well so ill be looking into how ot deal with that issue when i get home. i think some of my clutch problems might be wear related.
bobafett
11-12-2003, 11:54 AM
having a good vacation sean? u need to get your ass back. im starting to plan cam and CAI mods lol... thats a bad thing...
Justin86
11-12-2003, 12:54 PM
Just as bad as my intake swap. I'm pretty sure I have adressed all the issues and ready to try it out.
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