Cam regrind , need suggestions ?

[gr3k0sLaV]

ok im looking for a cam with a good all round performance, but im looking for something with a good Low end, and a decent high end : a good all rounder ... would you say these specs would fit what I wanted?

Intake
LIFT - 0.434
DURATION - 242

Exhaust
LIFT - 0.434
DURATION - 242

I preferably want a quicker take off. Suggestions are really welcome

Chris

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Sounds like a mild grind to me. I've noticed that their's a difference between mild grinds from different source's. The question is which one is better, but how and why, thats the question.

[gr3k0sLaV]

No one here locally does them , i need to send 'em to melbourne or interstate! damn!

[ryansaccord]

i want to get a cam regrind and i was thinking maby i should go with delta. They seem pretty cheap. Any body know what the exact prices of everybody is, i wasnt looking to spend more than like 150. And any idea of what ill be running 1/4 mile. my best right now is a 16.9 And how do i get ahold of anybody to get it going pretty quick. I have a core out of an 89 accord lxi head, but it was used on my carbed engine before i took it out, would that one work? Or do you guys think that the company i got the head from switched cams? its a complete rebuilt head.

[1988starter]

If you are looking to spend extra get a colt cam triflow grind about 150 or you can get a delta 272 for about 70 look around in the peformance section for more info. I don't kow what power increase the 272 is soposto give ut the triflow is around 10%

[pip]

i'm looking into this cam stuff because i'm deciding what cam i'm puttin in my dx hatch but if u go delta get the 272 its the best street profile they have colt cams is good to though i havn't heard anything bad about colt i dunno about power increase though for delta hopefully its good lol cuz i'm probably gonna get it i think its just easier i'm goin to college in august so i don't have tons of money to blow but its seems to me the question is for everyone, how much r u willing to spend?

[1988starter]

Well jagojon seems to not like his delta 272 all that much but I don't know here is the link
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=228764#post228764

Here is a mega thread on oppinions for cams
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17660

[pip]

wut kind of accord did this guy have? i can get my neihbor to help me install mine i think he just fucked up on the install... and did he have any mods?

[pip]

i still have no idea if ur lx-i cam will work in my dx

[1988starter]

Originally posted by pip
i still have no idea if ur lx-i cam will work in my dx

A20A1 says it will work I asked in the technical section

[ryansaccord]

yeah, i was thinking the delta 272 or maby even the 282, whats the biggest i can go and still drive around everyday but have a big notice in power?

[A20A1]

Originally posted by ryansaccord
yeah, i was thinking the delta 272 or maby even the 282, whats the biggest i can go and still drive around everyday but have a big notice in power?

It really depends what you can live with... some of the more wilder grinds will have poor idle... or a powerband not suited for low end torque. But I don't know that much about the Delta grinds.

[Nate2310]

will a 5 speed cam work on an auto?

[1988starter]

Originally posted by pip
wut kind of accord did this guy have? i can get my neihbor to help me install mine i think he just fucked up on the install... and did he have any mods? \

He has a short ram, tokico struts and a strut bar

thats it it is an LXi

[pip]

it will work eh... hmm well i got found a carb 5 spd core out of a scrap yard so i think i'm gonna pick it up, theres nothing wrong with that if i'm gonna get it reprofiled right?

[A20A1]

right a 5-speed cam will work on an auto after its reground... just make sure you mention that you have and Auto... and tell him the stall speed is 1,500.
Maybe higher if you have really good brakes. :D

[pip]

umm...i have a 5psd :)
lol thanks for the reply though

[pip]

spd*

[A20A1]

oh that was in partial reply to nate2310

[pip]

oops didn't see that lol

[pip]

well i picked up my cam today from a scrap yard looks pretty good
i've obviously decided to send it to colt

[1988starter]

Originally posted by pip
well i picked up my cam today from a scrap yard looks pretty good
i've obviously decided to send it to colt

are you going to get their triflow or regular grind.

[pip]

i told them i want the tri-flow grind, but wut r the differences anyway?

[1988starter]

Triflow= More expensive offset intake lobes more power and a special gring only colt can do.

[pip]

this better be worth 300 dollars lol

[1988starter]

300 canadian right because mine was about 200 but it was 25 to ship each way but it was worth every penny probably more

[pip]

it will be worth it if i can haul ass through 1st to 3rd and smoke the shit out of these stupid new civics i see with a muffler and those gay wings i hate people with new civics they think theyre so good same with neons... aghh

[ryansaccord]

yeah, i just want to haul ass but still keep it at a fairly descent idle. So im thinkin on going as big as a grind as i can. Plus in like 5 weeks im driving from Oregon, to arizona for school, so i might wait until after that

[1988starter]

Triflow give me the same idle as stock

[pip]

i just talked to geoff at colt cams for the tri-flow grind it is going to cost me 187.25$ including tax to get my baby regrinded then i'll get raped on the shipping but... oh well... now all i need is my intake and i'll be set

[ZigenBallz]

I'm just curious if people that are running regrinds are all still on OEM valve-springs in their A20's? and what do you usually rev to?

I recently got my 272 Delta regrind put in my 4thGen but I wanted to rev up to at least the 6800 fuel cut... so I was looking into Ferrea valve srpings...that's a whole nother story...

Anyways, I know I'm a 4thGenner blah blah blah... but I found some pretty useful info here when it came to regrinds and Delta in particular...
and since it seems like this board has the highest concentration of regrind owners out of any other Honda board I've found I thought I'd ask you guys what your valvetrain setups are...

I'm not asking about the cam.. I know firsthand about it...:D It's the valve-spring setups, problems, upgrades... that I'm curious about...

[1988starter]

My head is stock with my colt cam

[A20A1]

Same here... stock; valves / retainers / valve springs

I was looking for a higher duration race grind... The only problem I got was the valve guides / seals wearing out.

My regrind was from colt and i would rev to 7,500 rpm regularly.
Old vid of me reving 7.5k - 8k (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21026)

The torque is way up there, I needed to get a biggere carb and a header, too many choke points. But the power band is right where the grind said it would be.

[1988starter]

Originally posted by A20A1
Same here... stock; valves / retainers / valve springs

I was looking for a higher duration race grind... The only problem I got was the valve guides / seals wearing out.

My regrind was from colt and i would rev to 7,500 rpm regularly.
Old vid of me reving 7.5k - 8k (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21026)

The torque is way up there, I needed to get a biggere carb and a header, too many choke points. But the power band is right where the grind said it would be.


No offense man but that is almost how quick mine gets up their in third time for a bigger carb

[A20A1]

I know it's slow. :lol I listed the mods I had then
There was no way I can make power with a stock carb, exhaust manifold, and stuffed cat.

But you're right I do need a bigger carb and I was planning on the 38. But my custom header comes first... since it's really the only place I haven't moded yet.

[sandman3467]

I have the option to buy one of 2 different types of cams.....Which is better?


1. Intake: lift- .413 , duration- .274
Exhaust: lift- .390 , duration- .260


2. Intake: lift- .434 , duration- .242
Exhaust: lift .434 , duration- .242

[A20A1]

what are you looking for?

Bottom or top end?

[1988starter]

If you want a good midrange cam with a fair amout of power gain go for this

Duration/lift:
Intake 1 260/384
Intake 2 270/384
Exhaust 274/402

[Darkside]

Delta cam will to a re-grind for 65-75 buck 272 deg. 264 duration. I have tis cam and it works well with the weber Powerband from 3400-6500 RPMs

[A20A1]

Starter... is that a colt tri flow?

[1988starter]

Originally posted by A20A1
Starter... is that a colt tri flow?

Oh yea

[funkytuqe]

Duration/lift:
Intake 1 260/384
Intake 2 270/384
Exhaust 274/402

WTF my Colt tri flow is more agressive than that
INT: 280° .392 Lift
INT: 268° .383 Lift
EX: 288° .394 lift
I did not know Colt did more than one tri flow.

[Sabz5150]

Duration/Lift

Intake: 258/420
Exhaust: 270/420

That's for the Openloop cam

[my86dx4dr]

not for a 3g but for my friends vw, he has a 1.8 8v and i was looking at neuspeed and they have 3 diff ones, 260 duration 268 duration and 276 duration........ whats the differance and what would be best?

[k-roy]

The duration is how long the valve is open. So the higher duration the longer the valve is open.
What is best is a tough question. It all depends on how his car is setup.

[A20A1]

What is he going for, I'd get the 268 or the 276 if he's going for more top end.

[BootMachine]

well.....if the duration is TOO LONG its gonna do a few things.

- kill bottom end torque. Air needs to build velocity for the cam to work properly

- kill the engine idle. If you have a lot of duration the valves can overlap while closing and opening. This is good at high RPM and will give you gains but will hurt the bottom end...also...the idle is gonna suck. You may have to keep stabbing the gas to keep the engine from sputtering out or the engine may not idle AT ALL. THEN you gotta set your butterfly stop screw to idle your engine at like 1500 RPM or worse 2500 RPM. Everyone is gonna look at you at a red light and think you have some sort of problem!

Get a mild street cam...not a race cam.

[A20A1]

I can get a 500 rpm idle sometimes in gear... I just have to run with an excessively rich mixture. If there was a way to bump vacuum to the distributor advance... or get some kind of DIS then idle will be a lot smoother at low rpms even with a race cam.

I have 280i 288e duration... and I have a hard time keeping 10" of vacuum.
22" is the norm I believe.

268 is still pretty mild.

[my86dx4dr]

he bought the ccar with a few performance upgrades, i/h/e and he runs on a german distributer(sp?) and somehow because of that he was told to only fillup with premium, with a large intake manifold, (5" inlet hole) and i think theyrs more he would have to look at the papers, its all neuspeed thats why i went to neuspeed.com to see about cams, .... so 268 sounds like a good one? (a20a1) since you have one, is 299$ to much??

[1988starter]

here are the specs on mine I am a huge fan

Duration/lift:
Intake 1 260/384
Intake 2 270/384
Exhaust 274/402

[A20A1]

is it a regrind or a new cam?
For a New cam 300 is okay.

[1988starter]

I paid about 150 for my grind but I used an old cam

[Bioforge]

If you have a lot of duration the valves can overlap while closing and opening.

Actually if you want to get technical, the exhust valve is slighly open when the intake opens..and its quite healthy for the engine....I dont remember the site, but its the racer brown datsun manual he created, and is very in-depth on the head, if you have the time its a good read.

[86AccordLxi]

I have a 1.8 8 valve in my gti and it has a TT cam with a 268 grind as well as a TT catback. It rips, plain and simple. However, there's still some lope at idle with only that grind. I"d say don't go much bigger than that just so it can cold start and whatnot. If that's not an issue, get a 276. Enjoy!!

Alex

[johnwc723]

well of you guys that have gotten cam grinds by the various companies which ones would you reccomend? most importantly what were the gains like on getting a grind? (im deciding wheter to get one done or not?)

[Sabz5150]

I've praised 'em before and I'll praise 'em again. I have an Openloop mild grind and it flat out rocks. The gains were quite noticable from about 3700 all the way to redline (and beyond but Openloop hasn't been able to figure out how far because they can't defeat the LXi revlimiter). It idles smoothly as well.

[johnwc723]

hmm im looking for one that is better at the lowerend (i want better preformance at the lower end, i dont race my car everytime i drive it)

[Volitech]

I've got a gude cam that I'm installing hopfully next weekend but I still don't have an adjustable cam gear so I don't how well I'll be able to tune it! But I'll let ya know how it runs when it's done!

[johnwc723]

kool, yeah i want better preformance!

[gekko]

I've praised 'em before and I'll praise 'em again. I have an Openloop mild grind and it flat out rocks. The gains were quite noticable from about 3700 all the way to redline (and beyond but Openloop hasn't been able to figure out how far because they can't defeat the LXi revlimiter). It idles smoothly as well.

what did u have to pay for that , would u recomend openloop instead of colt ?

[shepherd79]

i talk to sean a few days ago, and i was asked him which cam is the best for low power, and he said to stay with stock LXI cam, and get TB bored and matched to Intake manifold and port the head.

[1988starter]

I am all about the colt triflow man from 2800 on it is great and I noticed very little loss in low end.

[A20A1]

If I didn't get the stage II? grind from Colt I would have went with the Stage II Tri-Flo grind.

[ET2]

I have the delta 272 installed from about 2500rpm to redline it pulls real strong and for $60 bucks it's a good deal

[Nate2310]

what do you think the gains you got on the delta cam were?

[ET2]

Thats hard to say because at the same time I installed the cam I also ported and polished the head if I had to guess I would say between 10 & 15% it made a very noticable difference tho, top end came alive

[smufguy]

i talk to sean a few days ago, and i was asked him which cam is the best for low power, and he said to stay with stock LXI cam, and get TB bored and matched to Intake manifold and port the head.

Alex, this might be a dumb question, but does the carb and the efi block use two different head and cams??? I knwo the dist holder is different on the efi head, but is the cam different? Also, if i get an after market cam, would i still be street legal? Im in NJ and the regulations are pretty much getting close to those of california. Dickheads would fail u for anything if they can.

[A20A1]

Yeah the cams are different... on a side note I was reading somewhere that the cam profile can effect the actual CR... hmm.

[riced_roach]

when you swap a stock cam to a mild grind you will always effect the low end performance. As the duration and lift become larger it will obviously move the power band up the rpm scale. If anything a nontypical solution would be to get a custom grind that will increase the cam lift of a stock duration cam to increase the valve lift which will allow more flow. As I said not a typical procedure. Majority will always put a larger duration and larger lift cam.

Mid to top end rpm is where you will usually see improvements in a mild to wild camshaft. Going with a mild cam will give you a different low end grunt but more than likely minimal compared to what you'll see in the mid rpm range.

[ET2]

The cam control's how long the valve's stays open and at what height, the bigger the cam the more air fuel mixture the engine will pull in with the incressed volume of mixture your static c.r. will go up when it's compressed between the piston and the cyclinder head then when the spark plug ignites it cause's a greater explosion wich sends the piston down even faster, thats why a good exhaust system is important when the piston is pushing out the burnt mixture with more volume and there's to much back pressure you get nasty stuff like fouled plugs and carbon build up incressed cyclinder temp ect, your cam shaft need's to match your engine mod's it's allway's better to be under camed then over camed if your engine can't handle the flow whats the point your just wasting gas I would suggest starting with the exhaust system & header then fuel and air flow a good ignition system then go for the cam, and if you realy want to go nutz higher c.r. pistons oversize valve's port & polish the head and so on good luck

[smufguy]

Yeah the cams are different... on a side note I was reading somewhere that the cam profile can effect the actual CR... hmm.

I believe thats the notion derived from the high volume of gas going into the combustion chamber compared to the stock one. Volumetric efficiency baby. ooooooo, I need an Lxi Cam sometime soon. Dang. Wait, dont u have a LXI parts pile ? can i have the cam?

[A20A1]

I sold my se-i cam to someone on here... I still have a LX cam...

[smufguy]

nah, dont worry about it, i got the lx cam too. cause its the A20A1 block, i was just hoping i could use the Efi cam and still be emission legal. I can get a cam grind, but i just dont wanna change the cam every two years when i go to emissions and be scared tthat it might fail emissions.

[ET2]

Delta has a mild cam I think its like 258 dur / 390 lift its not going to make a lot of power but it should'ent effect your emissions at all

[riced_roach]

The cam control's how long the valve's stays open and at what height, the bigger the cam the more air fuel mixture the engine will pull in with the incressed volume of mixture your static c.r. will go up when it's compressed between the piston and the cyclinder head then when the spark plug ignites it cause's a greater explosion wich sends the piston down even faster, thats why a good exhaust system is important when the piston is pushing out the burnt mixture with more volume and there's to much back pressure you get nasty stuff like fouled plugs and carbon build up incressed cyclinder temp ect, your cam shaft need's to match your engine mod's it's allway's better to be under camed then over camed if your engine can't handle the flow whats the point your just wasting gas I would suggest starting with the exhaust system & header then fuel and air flow a good ignition system then go for the cam, and if you realy want to go nutz higher c.r. pistons oversize valve's port & polish the head and so on good luck


huh??? installing a cam will effect compression ratio. Putting a larger duration cam WILL NOT increase static compression. OPPOSITE a bigger cam will reduce static compression BUT increase dynamic c/r in the higher rpms. A big cam has crappy volumetric efficienct at low rpms (static c/r period) but at high rpms it will have by far more volume of a/f mixture at higher rpms in the combustion chamber.

Back pressure has nothing to do with fouled plugs. If you have the right a/f mixture and correct heat range of the plugs you WONT get fouled plugs.

[ET2]

your right roach its dynamic not static the point I was trying to make is matching the right cam to your engine quote A mild cam with an early intake valve closing point will work well at low RPM. But at high RPM the intake valve will close before the maximum amount of air/fuel mixture has been drawn into the cylinder. As a result performance at high RPM will suffer. If a high static compression ratio is used with a mild cam (i.e. and early intake valve closing point) then the mixture may end up being "over-compressed". This will lead to excessive compression losses, detonation and could even lead to head gasket or piston failure.

On the other hand, an aggressive cam with a late intake valve closing point will work well at high RPM. But at low RPM the intake valve will close too late for sufficient compression of the intake charge to occur. As a result torque and performance will suffer. If a low static compression ratio is used with an aggressive cam (i.e. a late intake valve closing point) then the mixture may end up being "under-compressed". Thus a high performance cam with long duration should ideally be combined with a higher static compression ratio. That way the engine can benefit at high RPM from the maximized amount of intake charge afforded by the late intake valve closing, and still achieve sufficient compression of the mixture as a by-product of the dynamic compression ratio.

[riced_roach]

Its all about give and take. A mild cam will have more static compression than a larger duration cam but there is no such thing as "over compressed". Yes since the overlap in a mild cam is smaller you'll get good low end performance but the problem is that in the higher rpms you'll close the exhaust port too soon and the intake isn't open long enough to take advantage of the momentum of the a/f charge. So basically you'll have great volumetric efficiency at low rpms but crap at the top.

You can have a high static compression with an extremely large cam since the large cam will "bleed" the compression at low rpms. BUT you'll have alot of negative reversion of the air fuel charge since the intake valve is open longer and the piston at bottom dead center (BDC) will start to travel upwards while the intake valve is still open.

people always talk about duration but advertised duration is meaningless. You want to know what the duration is at .050. This is where actual effective flow happens (theoretically) advertised is at the absolute beggining of the ramp where the valve hasn't even opened yet.

[skull1441]

what is meant by reground cam ?? ... is it something u do to the cam or is it a stock cam replacement ooor woot???? :dunno:

[k-roy]

Its when you take a stock camshaft and have the lobes reshaped.
This is the only option for us since there are no aftermarket camshafts available for the A20.

[racerx]

there are 2 things involved when regrinding:

1. raising the lift of the lobe. This means letting your valves open wider, thus allowing more air in/out.

2. increasing the duration of the lobe. This means (obviously) giving the valve more time to be open, and consequently allowing more air in/out.

if you want, I have a cam for sale now (click on link in sig) and you can see a picture of the cam and its lobes.

[skull1441]

ok thnx .........

[riced_roach]

Pray the the company that does the regrind hardens it well after the process. Too big a duration is meaningless unless the intake port cannot accomidate more cfm. Otherwise negative reversion will be more apparent while gaining minimal benefit from a larger duration cam that wont flow alot more due to head port limitations.

As far as cam lift is concerned I am not certain a regrind will add material to the stock camshaft to achieve higher cam lift. I was always under the impression that a regrind only increase duration and NOT cam lift.

[k-roy]

As far as cam lift is concerned I am not certain a regrind will add material to the stock camshaft to achieve higher cam lift. I was always under the impression that a regrind only increase duration and NOT cam lift.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. How exactly can you reliably add lift? You would need to add material to the lobes, I don't think you can do that and have it last for long.

[ET2]

I asked the same question when I ordered my cam from delta and they told me they dont add anything to the cam, imagine looking at the end of the cam shaft and say the diameter is 1 inch with out the lobe's and they grind down the size of the diameter to 3/4 inch with out removing material from the lobe's so now the cam has 1/4 inch more lift, hope that make's sense

[Robs89LXi]

I still don't understand that though. Reducing the radius of the cam journals would necessitate using "thicker" cam bearings to make up the difference, thus negating the raising of the cam. Seems the only way to increase lift would be to:
a) add material to the lobes- don't think I like that idea, or
b) raising the cam in the cam towers, thus bringing the cam closer to the rockers (lift).
I guess this could be done by building up the bottom half of the cam tower, and machining out the top half (bearing caps). By doing this, you could retain the original bearings, and would not need to reduce the journal radius. Can someone find out for sure from one of the reputable cam builders?

[riced_roach]

I asked the same question when I ordered my cam from delta and they told me they dont add anything to the cam, imagine looking at the end of the cam shaft and say the diameter is 1 inch with out the lobe's and they grind down the size of the diameter to 3/4 inch with out removing material from the lobe's so now the cam has 1/4 inch more lift, hope that make's sense

1/4 inch more cam lift sound like BS to me. Look at the cam profile sheet that shoud have come with the cam. try to get a spec sheet on the stock cam profile. it'd be interesting to see what duration they get supposedly.

[ACE_14]

[ACE_14]

If you grind it down, doesn't it loose it's surface. With less surface to lift the lifters, won't it be less of a lift. I'm confused.

[A20A1]

to a point yes... but I think they grind the entire lobe smaller and then use the valve lash adjustment to take up the slack, so it almost acts as if you just added a different cam instead of grinding in one spot and losing lift in that area. I'm not sure if valve timing is thrown off any... you can always get a new cam or get a hard weld.

I wonder if lowering the rocker arm assembly some would make up for the decrease in the lobe material?

[ACE_14]

Where can i get a naw cam? What exactly does hard welding do?

[smufguy]

i think it does change the valve timing, Not only the duration of the lift is increased, but also the valve lash time is longer too. But i am not sure about them.

U can get regrind from crane, crower and some other companies like Delta and such.

[Gregg86DX]

A simple way to imagine a re-grind is just think about taking material off of the back side of the lobe (base circle). Then you have to reset the valve lash and the net effect is more lift (and possibly duration)

[ACE_14]

The change in valve timming, is this a good thing or bad? And would i need an ajustable camgear?

[ACE_14]

Who does the best "Reginds"? Would i need to modify anything else if i got one?

[smufguy]

The change in valve timming, is this a good thing or bad? And would i need an ajustable camgear?

it could be considered good for ur performance, bad for your emissions. But an adjustable cam gear would boost ur performance even more, and when tiem comes to go to inspection, it would save ur butt too.

[300700'88lx-i]

On single cam engines like ours, an adjustable cam gear mostly allows for moving the power band. You can change it to favor the low end, or move the power band up more towards the top end, but on SOHC engines, an adjustable cam gear doesn't really allow for one to "build" on the power band. I'm also not sure how much it would help with emmisions inspections, you might be able to adjust it to a point where it would lower emmisions, but it would be a long process of trial and error. Actually, in Cali, you can't pass smog inspection with an adjustable cam gear unless it's set to zero degrees. They won't let it pass the visual inspection.

[smufguy]

Its not only to move the power band, its also has the ability ot use EVC (early valve closing) to improve volumetric efficiency, Its more of a manual v-tech u could say. Thats why the moving the power band is named as such. Having the intake valves stay open for a longer time, gives u more power at the top end, and having them close early, gives u more power at the lower end of the band. also matched with a reground cam, u can do some serious magic with it.

[ACE_14]

I'm kind of a dumbass when it comes to these things, negative degrees on the cam, would it give me low end or top end power? Does anything else need to be done when I get my regrind?

[smufguy]

I'm kind of a dumbass when it comes to these things, negative degrees on the cam, would it give me low end or top end power? Does anything else need to be done when I get my regrind?

I think negative degrees, makes the valves (intake valves) close early, which then would boost ur low end.

If the negative degrees makes the intake valves close late, then it boosts ur high end.

When u get ur regrind, its best to get a cam gear too. But its not needed. Changing your timing belt would be a best bed if u have to change it or wanna. Besides that its all good. I woudl say inspect all ur springs and rockers and see if they are all good and go on from there. nothing major has to be done to em, but always adjusting the valves and the lifters are always a good thing to do while u got the cam off.

[ACE_14]

Still looking for the best way to go. Let me know What kind of Cams you guys use, so that I can get a better idea. Also, do you use a Camgears? How many degrees is it set at?

[pervasto]

if i were to get a performance cam on a scale from 1-10 how hard would it be to install?

[dXsquared]

took me 5 minutes to take the cam out... but that was with no timing belt to worry about, and i didnt put the engine back.. so like maybe 30 minutes to install and 15 to uninstall...

i am very mechanically inclined.. so an amature may take longer

Travis

[pervasto]

is it as easy as taking off my valve cover unscrewing a few bolts and that's it or do i have to worry about timing and such?

[86LXItooFAST4me]

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=15450

[mr eff]

i'm a car newbie and i did my own cam installation using the 3geez howto (linked above) and the online shop manual hosted by one of our members.

i would say it took me about an hour. we did, however, fuck up in reinstalling the camgear (oops woodruff key). when i went to readjust my valves, i snapped the bolt trying to turn the crank with a breaker bar. long story short, i ended up taking the belt off, marking it with chalk so i could reattach it without messing things up, and reinstalling the gear properly. that being said, give yourself 2 hours to install the thing :)

btw. i installed a mild performance colt cam, and i love it. won a quick race against my friend's 2003 accord and i would say that the new camshaft had some serious influence!

chris

[pervasto]

sweet thanks guys i think i will go out and buy a new cam but now the decision is what cam to get? any suggestions

[bobafett]

2 hours is ok estimate. im not that mechanically inclined, but u have to remove your valve cover, valvetrain, distributor, and cam gear, which were all firsts for me (except the valve cover)... so it took a while. getting the valves adjusted is critical :)

mr eff, i did the same damn thing not using the woodruff key the first time! lol

[1988starter]

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=15450
ahh one of my finest works ha ha actually it is not too bad just make sure you hve all the tools you need. Also it took me about 3 hrs with a long break in the middle when the GF came over including valve ajustment and idle ajustment, also dont forget I spent some good time setting up and taking pictures

[Ludi Mali]

what else is good to change/upgrage while you already have everything apart?

[1988starter]

what else is good to change/upgrage while you already have everything apart?
Cam seal valve cover gasket and grommits

[Nate2310]

which grommits?

[1988starter]

which grommits?


the ones under the bolts that hold the valve cover on

[mr eff]

colt cams recommended that you do the timing belt and check the rocker arms for wear... my rocker arms were just fine, but the timing belt is expensive if you take it to a shop, and a HUGE pain to do yourself. do a search on timing belt replacements if you want to see how intensive it is.

i would also take a look at your distributor O ring, since you've got the thing off anyways. sometimes they'll get worn down and leak oil, it's like 37 cents at a dealership

[myaccord7]

i have an openloop right now, iamnot sure which one i have but i didnt notice that much gain. just wondering which one of these have the best overall power gain???

Colt Cams
Company based in Canada, Prices fluctuate due to exchange rate.
$115 - $131.25 ( Standard )
$132 - $150.00 ( Tri-flow )
$25.00 ( Fully insured return shipping )
- Mild grind
-- 3500 – 6500 rpm power band
- Wild Grind
-- 4000 – 7500 rpm power band
Openloop Motorsports
- Mild grind $155 ( Including return shipping )
-- 258/270
-- 3500 - 6500 rpm power band
- Wild grind $155 ( Including return shipping )
-- ???/???
-- 4500 - 8000 rpm power band
Delta
- Grind $75.00
-- 260
-- ???/???
- Mild grind $75.00
-- 272
-- ???/???
- Wild grind $75.00
-- 282
-- 4000 – 7500 rpm power band
Gude
- Mild grind ( Call for Pricing )
-- 434/242
-- 3500 – 6500 rpm power band
Crower
Web Cams
Comp Cams
JG Engine Dynamics ( Used to Make a New Cam )



zach

[shepherd79]

you won't get direct answer since no one has dynoed all those cams. so we don't know what do expect.
i have delta 272 and i felt big diff.

[myaccord7]

why didnt you go with the 282?



zach

[86LXItooFAST4me]

why dont you call the companies that make them. im sure they have dynos and spec on the cams they produce.

[myaccord7]

yeah iam sure they do, but i dont believe companies, like in magazines how it says cold air intake's add "20" hp! yeah, i want to know what "the customers" think are best.




zach

[Vanilla Sky]

myaccord7 has a very valid point here... i, too would like to know this... the problem that i see is that i don't think too many people have different cams... most have went with the openloop mild or the delta tri-flow... i guess all you can do is ask in this case... ask anybody and everybody...

[smufguy]

we all know that with more lift you get more power. and depending on how ur motor is worked up and how many mods you got, going with higher lift is better. i think the idle will suffer a lil with radical grinds, but it should be good for making tons of power with a nice complete head job.

[Sabz5150]

i have an openloop right now, iamnot sure which one i have but i didnt notice that much gain. just wondering which one of these have the best overall power gain???

What mods do you have and how high did you rev it? I've got the same Openloop cam (Mild 256/270) and it's a world of difference. If nothing else, dial it in with a gear and a dyno. I have the cam advanced three degrees and it helps the bottom end a decent amount. Sounds mean as hell at WOT too ;)

[AccordAddict]

ok when you talkl about the cams, did you buy the cams or did you take yours out and they "regrind" it??? im confused... and do you think the cams have a better effect than a new header? because im not sure if i should get my header next or cam..

[Vanilla Sky]

go for the cam then the header, and have the header tuned to the cam

[AccordAddict]

oh... well i really need a header right now, i just got a 2.25" cat back exhaust and i want a header to open up some more power, i think ill go for the header, but if im desperate i might go for a cam first cuz the header costs alot, (with installation, shipping, ect..) ya know? so when yall are talking about these cams, do you send your existing cam in, and get a regrind, or do you buy a new cam and install it???????

[Justanothermike]

i'm guessing he has a stock carb. don't expect too much with that carb. u'll need a bigger one. On the FI engines u should feel a noticable difference, definately if u have I/H/E

[A20A1]

He can't get the header tuned to the cam... unless it's custom. He has a pacesetter.

Looks like you've got exhaust... work on fuel and air, get rid of the stock fuel pump and carb, unless you plan to modify the stock carb.

[shepherd79]

why didnt you go with the 282?



zach
the reason i went with 272 was because i wanted to keep my daily driver. 282 grind is for race only.

[myaccord7]

would it be bad to drive with the 282 as an "almost daily driver"?

iam do have a stock carb right now. iam making a dcoe manifold right now but i have to put my 5speed in first because of the kickdown cable on the carb. i do have a header with no cat and 2.25 inch all the way back. it does rev faster now but i dont think its because of the cam. iam getting a cam gear and a p&p head in alittle while, so i might get a wild cam, not sure, i'll see how my openloop one does first.

what kind of fuel pump should i get when i get all of that finished??




zach

[eightyfivelude]

hey,

I went from a stock cam to a COLT CAMS 280/288 split duratio .390 lift cam and dropped a second off my quarter mile on a stock motor.

I have now added dual 40mm webers, msd ignition, bigger fuel pump, 2.0L over bore (used to be 1.8L), 3 angle valve job, decked head and block... and a bunch of other stuff. With the 280/288 duration my car hauls ass and is easily a daily driver capable of 14 second passes.

As I type Geoff at COLT CAMS is grinding me up a 308/312 split duration .392 lift. His extreme grind. I will let you know how it runs.

When I pulled out my 280 cam he did for me, it looked like the day I got it from him. His regrinds are more durable than the stock cam.

Matt

[myaccord7]

wow a .392 lift? damn, let us all know. what kind of fuel pump are you using? what are you doing with your old 280/288 cam?


zach

[eightyfivelude]

hey,


I'm running a carter 72gph 4-6 psi pump.. and as for the old cam I am selling it for $150 canadian. Geoff sells that grind for $225

matt

[AccordAddict]

Does your old cam work on Fuel Injected engines?

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Carb cams and FI cams can't be interchanged.

[smufguy]

Carb cams and FI cams can't be interchanged.

yeah they can be interchanged.

[gekko]

does Colt got anything between Mild and wild (tri flow) or is mild a good grind for daily driver ?
i'm sending my cam next week , can't wait to install it and the cam gear ..

[smufguy]

the cam gear looks really nice.

[Luis 89LXi]

Carb cams and FI cams can't be interchanged.


Hey Mike why they can't be interchanged ???
im using a whole (86-87) A20A3 engine on my carbed LX. A20A3 block, head, valves and cam.


*Pistons came from original A1 same as 89 Carbed intake
the engine is fully built just waiting to have some time to install on car.

[eightyfivelude]

they only difference between the fuel injected cars and the carburated is that the valves open and close at different times on each engine. You can swap cams but I don't know what it would do on the performance end. Geoff makes sure before he grinds that he knows what kind of motor it came out of as the valve timing is slightly different.

The other thing that I must mention is that I am running a Prelude ET-2 motor. It is almost identical to the A20. Just uses different coolant passages and stuff. exhuast manifolds are interchangeable. intake manifolds are different though. Cam gears are identical, cams are slightly different.

Matt

[A20A1]

would it be bad to drive with the 282 as an "almost daily driver"?

iam do have a stock carb right now. iam making a dcoe manifold right now but i have to put my 5speed in first because of the kickdown cable on the carb. i do have a header with no cat and 2.25 inch all the way back. it does rev faster now but i dont think its because of the cam. iam getting a cam gear and a p&p head in alittle while, so i might get a wild cam, not sure, i'll see how my openloop one does first.
what kind of fuel pump should i get when i get all of that finished??
zach

So you saw the cable connected to the carb? Cause some accords came with the cable connected to the pedal, so you may be lucky.

I just stuck the kickdown in my hand... lots of fun there. :)

[keruhas184]

edit... I had trouble reinstalling the woodruff key... Ended up putting it into the cam, and holding the key with a screwdriver while tapping the gear in place.

[A20A1]

thats odd... what I do is stick the cam into the gear then lay the cam on the head.

[keruhas184]

I had the gear attached to the belt, and there wasn't much clearance to get the key aligned in place... I'd think if both the cam and the gear were out, they'd attach quite easily...

[myaccord7]

yeah i saw it. damn thing. does anyone have a colt cam? whice one? is it a good overall cam? i want something with a lot of power, im not sure which one i should get. i have a header,adj. cam gear, p&p head with a 3angle value job and some other stuff. i have an openloop cam right now but i want something with more power. anyone have any ideas of which cam i should go with????? thanks

zach

[myaccord7]

anyone?????

zach

[smufguy]

yeah i saw it. damn thing. does anyone have a colt cam? whice one? is it a good overall cam? i want something with a lot of power, im not sure which one i should get. i have a header,adj. cam gear, p&p head with a 3angle value job and some other stuff. i have an openloop cam right now but i want something with more power. anyone have any ideas of which cam i should go with????? thanks

zach

okay how much power are you looking for? I laymens rule of thumb is, if you are gonna be na and wanna make, lets say 150hp, your head should flow 150 cfm. Its a ball park number, not accurate so check on that. For our heads to flow amazingly wonderful, they need to cams with crazy lift. But again, to make power, u need to have that. I know Sean made the head flow 340 or 360 cfm with 550 lift. and also, cross check with someone about the durations too. I would suggest that you get an adj fuel press reg, fuel press gauge and a 195 lbs/hr fuel pump. running a lil more fuel pressure would give u some power too.

NOTE: I do not have cams, dont know much about em, but know enough to understand the concept behind it and why and how they work. If i was you, i would pm sean and see what he did in more detail.

[A20A1]

Power wont come from the cam alone...

Anyways keeping the exhaust valve open for a long time or giving it higher lift should help kick out a little more exhaust so the intake can take in more... in most cases you'll have to know where you want to make the power... up high or down low.

I got a colt cam with fairly long duration to make power up high... my powerband is 4,000 - 7,500 ... now I dunno if you want to chance reving as high as I do... so you can stick with a lower rpm range and probably get something with more lift than mine and a little less duration which will also help with idle. not to say you can't get a high overlap cam to idle good

[Sabz5150]

Power wont come from the cam alone...

Anyways keeping the exhaust valve open for a long time or giving it higher lift should help kick out a little more exhaust so the intake can take in more... in most cases you'll have to know where you want to make the power... up high or down low.

I got a colt cam with fairly long duration to make power up high... my powerband is 4,000 - 7,500 ... now I dunno if you want to chance reving as high as I do... so you can stick with a lower rpm range and probably get something with more lift than mine and a little less duration which will also help with idle. not to say you can't get a high overlap cam to idle good

He can always tune the Colt to lower RPMs with a bit of help from a gear. Advance it a few degrees and that should help. And since they are available for the A20s now... :cool:

[myaccord7]

thanks



zach

[1987HondaAccord]

I was supposed to get a cam from a guy off ebay. I was gonna get it reground with like a mild grind for my hatch. But the guy said one lobe has a pretty bad scratch on it, and the distributor notch was somehow chipped up. Would i still be able to use this to have the cam reground? or should i just look for a different cam?

thanks in advance.

[NXRacer]

i'd look into one thats in good condition. you never know how messed up it really is.

[1987HondaAccord]

the cam would only be 11 bucks including shipping. don't they add metal to the lobes anyway when the regrind them? if they do, how does the scratch change anything?

[AccordEpicenter]

you need to look at the cam journals too, if theyre scarred then the cam is fuxored

[A20A1]

umm, it's fairly difficult to scratch up the cam outside the engine from just handeling it... if the cam distributor knotch is messed up I'd be careful.

Ask for pics if he has them

[Justin86]

just get one from a j/y

[A20A1]

Get 3 pics of the cam... one main shot and the rest of the damage.
http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3780
http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3781
http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3782

[pendejo]

I wouldn't buy a damaged cam, even if they are resurfaced and what-not, they are still going to lose strength in the damaged area. Just wait, there will be more on Ebay, and when I get my new motor in, I'll sell ya my stock cam, which should be in good condition, just may take a few weeks/months/years/decades :sad2: before I get-r-done!!!!

[Oyvind Ryeng]

It might also be "out-of-stick", in other words, not straight. And that would be a real pain when measuring bearing clearances and installing it.

[A20A1]

I just poped mine in I doubt there is ever any problems with the clearance... if there was you'd have to replace the head and rocker assembly to replace the bearings.

[HC_LXi]

Is the camshaft of an automatic A20a3 engine different from one the manual a20a3?

[Magny]

yup, i've seen it somewhere in the forums stating this.

[SteveDX89]

yup, i've seen it somewhere in the forums stating this.

I haven't so I'd like to see some links.

[mag_pbg]

I could be wrong, but i think you are thinking of the carb and EFI being different.

[Strugglebucket]

there is no difference that i know of between the manual and automatic camshafts.
however, the camshafts from 86-87 a20a3 are a different part# from that of the 88-89 a20a3.

[A20A1]

could that be because of the dual stage vs single stage manifold...
Having different cam specs between the 86-87 and 88-89?

[gekko]

would the a20a3 cam fit the a20a4 ?

[SteveDX89]

would the a20a3 cam fit the a20a4 ?

They're basically the same engine. I think the A4 just has less emission control stuff.

[phoenxislayer15]

My 1987 Hatchback is single stage intake, so it would probably make a difference vs. the newer models.

[McNick]

would the a20a3 cam fit the a20a4 ?

Yes. It will.
The difference is only shorter open time for one intake valve for better emission. IMHO it will decrease some hp...

[AccordNut]

just wondering what this is exactly, ive heard you guys talking about it but not sure what it is, id like some details on it

[A20A1]

Here is a link
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37583

[A20A1]

:lol: I almost had you confused with AccordAddict

[Ace]

I was speaking with my father after reading the faq on cam regrinds he was a mechanic and I was mentioing a cam regrind and that I was interested in it. He said that this can soften the camshaft not literally but over time is this true or is he just a old man with hate for foreign cars P.S he owns a 1970 chevy chevelle :lol:

[keruhas184]

Our OEM Honda cams are supposed to be made of bulletproof quality... This is the first time I've heard anyone worrying about the grind actually hurting the cam, at least the cam for our engine...

[danronian]

With flat tappet style cams in old v8s the cams would eventually get worn down from use and performance would slowly degrade, he is probably mentioning something to that extent.

[Ace]

What members have had this done?

[Strugglebucket]

me.

[SQ is the SQUAD]

ask you dad if he has an extra small block chevy distributor that i can have, it has to be non ecu

[Ace]

struggle bugget to you was it worth the upgrade and sorry no distrubutor

[keruhas184]

If you don't have any other mods, it is not worth getting a performance cam. Cam should be one of the last "bolt on" mods to get. If you have intake/exhaust and at least an upgraded fuel pump installed, then get a cam. This is because all the components work together, so if just slap a new cam into a bone stock engine, you could hurt your performance.

[Ace]

Thank you I apreciate the the response that was what i was wondering for a fuel pump what do you suggest

[AccordEpicenter]

the regrinds dont really soften the cam unless it was spray welded and reground like that, then it can if they dont treat it right

[Strugglebucket]

even if you don't have any other mods, i think a mild grind is one of the most cost effective and noticable upgrades you can do. i don't agree with those that say you won't notice an improvement without upgrading the intake and exhaust. you won't be maximizing your gains but there will still be a good improvement.

[Slipknotcraig133]

Well i just got my pacesetter header and full cat back exhaust put up over the weekend. There are some things that i liked and i didnt like. For starters, for the price i payed i got some more power out of my car and the install was not to difficult just removing the egr tube was a pain. One of the things that i dont like is the muffler and tip combo. It gave my car a real raspy sound. Another thing is with no flex pipe anymore it rattles kind of bad at idle up to around 2 grand. Now that i have that done and an intake and plug wires the next thing i was wanting to do was a cam regrind. I was wondering if i should upgrade my fuel pump and other parts like that. Also what companies did you guys get your cams from.

[HostileJava]

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37583

[Slipknotcraig133]

I have the money right now to get a cam regrind. I want some numbers thrown out to me. Its going to be all motor with no forced induction at all. Its going to be a high compression motor.

[FyreDaug]

Colt Cams does regrinds, and is the best price ive gotten so far.

Regrind FAQ (http://3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37583)

[Slipknotcraig133]

yea i know of the companies but i am wanting some opinions on some numbers duration and lift

[FyreDaug]

To Dallas,



Thank-you, for contacting us.
Our most popular grinds for the 12V SOHC Honda's are known as the "TRI FLOW".
The principal behind the design is to open the intake valves progressively.
We find opening both valves at the same time causes more bottom end loss than necessary.
By opening one valve first allows the fuel to travel across the chamber at a greater velocity and then helps pull in the second charge.
These profiles also help cut down on overlap and work great in Turbo's and N.O.S.
applications.
STAGE 1 - PRIM INT 270° .384 LIFT
SEC INT 260° .384 LIFT
EX 274° .402 LIFT
Best all around wake up grind works with F.I. as well. No mods are required.
Power band is 2800 - 6500 R.P.M. approximately.
The cost for this one is $175.00 Canadian or $ 140.00 US
Customer supplies cam core.
STAGE 2 - PRIM INT 280° .392 LIFT
SEC INT 268° .383 LIFT
EX 288° .394 LIFT
Carb. only. Strong mid range. No mods are required
Power band is 3500 - 7500 R.P.M.
The cost for this one is $225.00 Canadian or $180.00 US.
Customer supplies cam core.
STAGE 3 - PRIM INT 292° .413 LIFT
SEC. INT 272° .402 LIFT
EX. 302° .428 LIFT
Carb. only. Race Only.
The power band is from 4500 + R.P.M.
The cost for this one is $325.00 Canadian or $260.00 US.
Customer supplies cam core.
PLEASE NOTE : US DESTINATIONS PLEASE ADD AN ADDITIONAL $25.00 US FOR RETURN SHIPPING. WE WILL SHIP FREIGHT COLLECT RETURN FOR CANADA
If you are interested please let us know a convenient time to reach you or give us a call at your convenience.
Thank-you,
Geoff Bardal
FOR OUR U.S. CUSTOMERS REGARDING SHIPPING
When sending in your cams, via any courier service or the post office.
Please put as the value of the cams to be under $10.00.
This falls under NAFTA and no duty charges will be inflicted on you.
Please put on the waybill as well as on the package.
"Damaged Camshaft for Repair and Return"
PAYMENT
We only accept International Money Orders in US funds made out to Colt Cams Inc.
COLT CAMS INC.
#54 - 3347 262 nd Street
Langley, BC
Canada
V4W 3V9
TEL: (604) 856-3571
FAX: (604) 856-3572
www.coltcams.com
[email protected]

Theres some numbers for you

[Slipknotcraig133]

I just got the delta 272 grind be here in a few days.

[shepherd79]

i had Delta 272, it was nice power gain for daily driver car, but for a race car, you want something bigger.

[AccordEpicenter]

probably bigger than the colt
triflow too. I bet a 282 would be nice

[Sabz5150]

Openloop's mild cam:

Intake: Duration - 256, Lift - .420
Exhaust: Duration - 270, Lift - .420

If you can find one, get it.

[AccordEpicenter]

have delta make that grind

[Slipknotcraig133]

I got a 282 .430". It helped out quite a bit its real noticeable but my gas milage is going to drop down a bit i bet.

[86 LX POS]

Does anybody know of any machine shops that will regrind cams around virginia? I would like to get the cam reground in my 86 LX A20A1. How much coast am I looking at also?

[keruhas184]

:welcome: to the board. Try to search next time.

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37583

[LXi_tuner]

ok i want to get new camgears and get my camshaft reground for a higher exahsut lift....
first off, i cant find anyone online who sells camgears for the a20a3, so any help with a retailer would be great...
second i want to get a higher exhaust lift on my camshaft but i dont really know much about boring and shit like that..so what measurements should i tell the machine-shop...and also does anyone know about how much this would cost?
any info would be great, thanks...

[bobafett]

Contact Delta Cams
Toll Free: 1.800.562.5500
[email protected]

if you want a decent streetable cam have them build you a 272. if you are going for a more aggressive setup, a 282 would do. also, if you are planning for boost, i would stick with stock cam. these are cheap too, shouldnt run more than $120 shipped, and $30 less if you get them a core! and about 1-day turnaround time. i love delta cam, i have bought 2 cams through them...

as for adjustable cam gears, its a long story, but the bottom line is, you will have to pm the member 'justanothermike' and see if you can nag him to reinstate the golden eagle cam gear groupbuy. it is literally the only choice, short of finding a good machinist and doing it yourself. :(

[w00tw00t111]

Hey boba, what about a 292? I remember in another thread it said that there is a pretty good chance that it wouldn't alow for enough vacuum draw to operate the brake booster. Plus would it locate usuable horspower so high up that it's pretty unusable? I'm getting a majorely worked over head so I know I can use the full 282 power band. So would 292 just be to "wild" for a car that needs to, I don't know idle and not die at stop lights =p

[rjudgey]

cam gear you can make adjustable from the original pulley, camshaft i would stick with 270 with stock A20 valve springs as they are quite weak, unless you can rob some springs from a 2G accord or 2G prelude which are bizzarely stronger than A20. With stronger valve springs a 280 would be fine 10mm lift is safe 11mm with stronger springs you can do 12mm but you will have to have Prelude exhaust valve springs and platforms fitted and reduce the height of the platforms they sit on although it is possible to fit uprated springs with more clearance but will be hard to source and cost a few $$$'s

[LXi_tuner]

the 272 and 280 and stuff, is that the hieghts i tell the shop or what...

[AccordEpicenter]

hey rich are you saying A18 valvesprings are stronger? Do they work as an upgrade for the a20?

['A20A3']

www.openloopmotorsports.com

$130 Cam gear by Golden Eagle

[rjudgey]

Hell yeah teh A18 and ET valve springs are well tough the exhausts are really hard and are doubles the inlets are single but are really strong their made from thicker coils all the platforms etc will fit but you don't want a BT or A20 2G Lude though their the same as Accords, but ET1 has good springs and platforms i use ET1's with shimmed platforms to add a little more strength and take up the slack, on the big valve head i used Accord exhaust valve springs all round on the outers and then A18 inner springs all round, seemed to work nicely not too stiff but stiff enough to cope with 285 degree camshaft with 10mm lift if i was to go anymore than that i would switch to A18 exhaust springs all round although you would loose a little power from the extra friction created from the stronger springs, you have to match it carefully only use whats needed to get the job done otherwise your wasting energy and power and you'll wear out the cam bearings quicker with stiffer springs too. With the exhaust valve platforms if you were to get custom springs you would have more clearance for higher valve lifts as the platforms sit higher than the intake side.

[LXi_tuner]

alright i'll look into getting a18 exhaust springs, probally go junkyard scanvenging..lol...
with that $130 cam from openloop do u think u would have to get new springs??

[b8er]

very interesting info on those A18 springs, i never knew that and will be trying to do some reasearch later on, thanks rjudgey

[w00tw00t111]

So Rich are you saying that the A18 and ET1*which car is that again?* exhaust valves are a good upgrade for most heads but, to not upgrade to a18 intake springs until you need it? I.e. high lift cam or revving higher? At least that's what I understood from your post. Is that about right?

[gfrg88]

a18 and et1 came in the preludes, and thats some good info there, im going to be trying that when i start working on my head :rockon:

[AccordEpicenter]

so how were you shimming them and how much? You were using the a18 spring perches and shimming them as well as using the a18 retainers too?

[rjudgey]

If you look on my cardomain site the picutre of the A18 head has double springs all round from the exhaust platforms and retainers, but i've used ET1 platformsa nd retainers in the past but these have less clearance for really high valve lift.
A18/ET is from 2G lude
ET2 is from 2G Accord 1.8 JDM and European market maybe availbale in U.S. not sure it's a non CVCC head this is also on my cardomain site too.
The A18 and ET heads all have really strong exhaust valve springs and the inlets are just really strong singles which are still much better than A20 inlet springs, if i were tight for choice then just get carbed 2G Lude valve springs and platform retainers, as for shims i bought big metal washers the smae OD as the original and drilled out the hole in the middle to fit over the guide job done, use one or two washers depending howmuch stiffer you want it but you have to make sure you have enough clearance when valves are fully down as you don't want to be coil bound or it will wreck the rocker pads after a few hundred miles.
And yes you need to use the right strength spring for the right application otherwise your creating extra friction for no reason and wasting power and creating more wear on the cam bearings and rocker pads.
Ideal setup for 265-275 degree camshaft A18/ET/ET1 springs and retainers with a little shimming, 275-285 Mid spec would be ET1 platforms with A20 exhaust springs all round with minimal shimming maybe using A18 inner exhaust springs all round if you want it a bit stiffer for continual high rpm use, 285 and above hi spec would be complete exhaust valve inlet conversion from A18/ET heads using all exhaust springs and platforms on all valves shimming not normally needed with these but will wear out rocker pads and cam bearings quicker race only or someone who likes to tinker a lot!!
Hope this helps the only way i can safely rev to 7.5-8k without bending valves all i need now is rod bolts that don't break ;0)

[LXi_tuner]

what about pushrods...havent seen anything on changing those yet...

[rjudgey]

ha ha very funny!!
( I take it your pulling our leg right? Just in case A20 is a SOHC so doesn't use pushrods!!)

[LXi_tuner]

ok then, what the hell are those little things called that the valve spring glides on...

[rjudgey]

what the rods inside the valve springs or the rockers that push them down on top??
push rods are long vertical rods that make contact with the camshaft that are fitted in the block the rods then connect to the rockers, with a Overhead cam the rockers connect directly to the camshaft and valves.
Their you go learn something everyday. Overhead cams are more desireable as they can be swapped without neediung major heart surgery and also give you the means to run twin cam or even Quad cam if it's a V engine.

[shepherd79]

if you just get 272 grind from Delta cams, you won't have to get stiffer valve springs.

[white ricer]

what about pushrods...havent seen anything on changing those yet...

lmao i know thats not what you meant but i laughed for five minutes over that!:Owned:

[speedpenguin]

Haven't you guys heard? It's called "cam in block" now. :)

[rjudgey]

depends really if it's all stock then yes as the top end power band will only be upto 6500rpm but if you have header, and exhaust, headwork, etc. the engine will rev higher due to increased efficiency peak power will increase from 6500rpm to 7000 and in my case a 272 cam will pull all the way upto 7500rpm and from what i've seen on A20 heads most the inlet springs are way to light for continual heavy rpm revving.
It's all done to what your doing and what your planning for the future.

[LXi_tuner]

i know how rockers, cams and everything works, i just got the name of something mixed up....i didnt need an explanation..just a name...
but anyway, so with a 272 and no high-high reving, you shouldnt need new valve springs...

[bobafett]

yeah i ran a 272 and drove agressively and raced the car several times, but i didnt take the rpms above 6300 (redline ish area)... i had the car like this for well over a year with no ill effects.

[LXi_tuner]

thats good info...how much did you pay for your cams..

[bobafett]

they are around $114 each shipped if you DONT give them a core. but as long as you keep your recepit, you can send in a core later on and get $30 refund. I have at least 2 stock cams, so I can get $60 back from delta since I have purchased a couple cams from them over the years.

oh also this 272 was used on a motor between 250k and 280k... so its not like im using a low mileage motor either.

[LXi_tuner]

that mileage quote makes me feel a little safer because i only have about 176k...

[bobafett]

yeah thats true. this motor has been driven pretty hard for most of its life. but it has also been maintained really really well. :)

[sinisterfuzzy]

has anyone gotten any wild grinds? if so which kind? and i was lookin at a diff thread and the open loop wild grind has a power band of 4500-8000 does that mean you'll be able to rev up to 8 or 9 grand?

[gfrg88]

:stupid:

did you search??? ill just answer that for you, NO you will not be able to rev past the rev limiter in an efi, in a carb'd car youll be able to rev as high as you want but youll most likely break something. next time please search.

[snoopyloopy]

:werd: all you'll do is kill your powerband until 4500-6200 or so. whenever the redline is. unless you rebuild your bottom end and valve train, going past 6500 will put your car out of business. especially since it's definitely not new and so probably isn't in tip top shape.

[A20A1]

Yep, the cam isn't going to let you rev higher... it just shifts the powerband higher.

Also if you are manual you may want to lighten the flywheel and get everything rebuilt and balanced. Plus any new wild grind like that will need new valve springs

Plus on the stock carb reving to 7,500 everything seems pretty flat... cause the carb is too small.
You should look into getting a bigger exhaust valve and valve job. as well as open up your exhaust end, not just the intake side.

[bobafett]

$$$ :)

[sinisterfuzzy]

my plan so far is (no particular order)

light flywheel
cam regrind (can't decide which)
weber 32/36 carb
pacesetter header
2.25" pipe
magnaflow muffler
port and polish

anything else i should add to it?

[MessyHonda]

im going the same way also...but i have a auto(dont care) i can eat and drive at the same time...lol

my set up is going to be:
Pacestter headers
K&N air filter(maybe going to do civic air box mod)
2.25'' pipe with manderal bends
high flow magnaflow CAT 2.25pipe
magnaflow muffler 2.25''
cam regrind(also can deside but narrowed it down to Colt or Delta)
also i got a lil bit wider tires so it can handle better(195-55-15)
i want to port and polish but i dont have time or money since its a beater car

[sinisterfuzzy]

if i went this route should i get a new clutch? if so why? sorry im a noob

[snoopyloopy]

bc the stock one might not handle that kind of power

[sinisterfuzzy]

if i'm running 32/36 weber carb can i hook up a cold air intake to it? if so where? and since im planning on putting another spacer with it and a hoodscoop would i even need to?

[AccordEpicenter]

what kind of power level are you guys shooting for? yeah revving over 7k is hard on stock engines plus there is no power up there.

[A20A1]

If you have the stock cam or maybe a stage 1 or stage 2 colt grind and a 32/36... don't bother getting a cold air intake, just get a RAMFLO filter 600cfm, will be plenty.

Stay away from the stage 3 for now.

[3gn86lxi]

On my a20a3 with 250,000 plus miles I have a Delta 272 cam, I,E,H, 4th gen map.
I rev to 6500 and up everyday. There is lots of power higher in the rpms, you just have to tune for it.

[rjudgey]

Don't get a wild cam grinds unless you are fully re-building the engine to race spec or your just going to screw it up that and it would never rev that high with a Weber 32/36 wou would need at least 38/38 or better two Weber DCOE 45's, stick with a 270-280 grind with a 38/38 should be plenty for you, then exhaust, header which should give you around 140-150bhp,then later use some A20A3/A4 pistons in a rebuild, some headwork maybe bigger valves then Weber DCOE's and you'll be looking at 170-180bhp a lot more can be had but you need to knwo what your doing off and more improtantly finding a engine builder sho know what he's doing off otherwise your just flushing money down the toilet and you'll just end up with a badly running ,miss firing gas guzzling 4 pot wiht a weber strapped to it!! If done right with aboyut $10-15K dollars spent you should end up with a 4 pot that humm's like a humming bird and kicks like a mule with a about 220-250bhp if you want this then better get saving all off us who have hit the 200bhp mark whether turbo or NA have all spent serious amounts of cash but realisticly 150bhp is acievable with a re-built stock bottom end and the right parts and more importantly someone who can tune webers or FI.

[sinisterfuzzy]

if i then go with a Weber 38 and the rest of my original plan, what else will i need to prep my engine for if i want to run nitrous?

[sinisterfuzzy]

If you have the stock cam or maybe a stage 1 or stage 2 colt grind and a 32/36... don't bother getting a cold air intake, just get a RAMFLO filter 600cfm, will be plenty.

Stay away from the stage 3 for now.

would i see any performance gains if i put a 1000cfm filter on my 38?

[A20A1]

I think you'll need a wet shot which means an extra fuel pump and means of injection... otherwise for a dry shot you'll need to run a bit rich at wide open throttle and have the nitrous use a throttle switch to activate at wide open throttle.

[maxsideburn]

I've searched and searched and cannot find where you guys are actually getting performance cams. What's the best place to find some at a decent price? And what prices do they usually run?

[MessyHonda]

im going to get a Colt Cam tri-flow grind 1st stage... they emailed me the price.

Thank-you, for contacting us.
Our most popular grinds for the 12V SOHC Honda's are known as the "TRI FLOW".
The principal behind the design is to open the intake valves progressively.
We find opening both valves at the same time causes more bottom end loss than necessary.
By opening one valve first allows the fuel to travel across the chamber at a greater velocity and then helps pull in the second charge.
These profiles also help cut down on overlap and work great in Turbo's and N.O.S.
applications.
STAGE 1 - PRIM INT 270° .384 LIFT
SEC INT 260° .384 LIFT
EX 274° .402 LIFT
Best all around wake up grind works with F.I. as well. No mods are required.
Power band is 2800 - 6500 R.P.M. approximately.
The cost for this one is $175.00 Canadian or $ 140.00 US
Customer supplies cam core.
STAGE 2 - PRIM INT 280° .392 LIFT
SEC INT 268° .383 LIFT
EX 288° .394 LIFT
Recommended for carburetor engine. However, it will work on F.I. with a noticeable idle
and possibly a slight surge. Strong mid range. No mods are required
Power band is 3500 - 7500 R.P.M.
The cost for this one is $225.00 Canadian or $180.00 US.
Customer supplies cam core.
STAGE 3 - PRIM INT 292° .413 LIFT
SEC. INT 272° .402 LIFT
EX. 302° .428 LIFT
Carb. only. Race Only.
The power band is from 4500 + R.P.M.
The cost for this one is $325.00 Canadian or $260.00 US.
Customer supplies cam core.
PLEASE NOTE : US DESTINATIONS PLEASE ADD AN ADDITIONAL $25.00 US FOR RETURN SHIPPING. WE WILL SHIP FREIGHT COLLECT RETURN FOR CANADA
If you are interested please let us know a convenient time to reach you or give us a call at your convenience.
Thank-you,
Geoff Bardal
FOR OUR U.S. CUSTOMERS REGARDING SHIPPING
When sending in your cams, via any courier service or the post office.
Please put as the value of the cams to be under $10.00.
This falls under NAFTA and no duty charges will be inflicted on you.
Please put on the waybill as well as on the package.
"Damaged Camshaft for Repair and Return"
PAYMENT
We only accept International Money Orders in US funds made out to Colt Cams Inc.
COLT CAMS INC.
#54 - 3347 262 nd Street
Langley, BC
V4W 3V9
TEL: (604) 856-3571
FAX: (604) 856-3572
www.coltcams.com
[email protected]

[maxsideburn]

ok, is there anywhere to just buy one?

I can't have my car apart for weeks while they're grinding it.

[MessyHonda]

ok, is there anywhere to just buy one?

I can't have my car apart for weeks while they're grinding it.

go to the junk yard or see if anyone is selling one. im going to pick a head with everything for 55 bucks. im going to install that head and then going to send mine since my engine has less than 60k on it

[maxsideburn]

duh, I didn't think of that, lol. I can just grab one from the yard.

[Kabuki]

I also have a couple of cams from cracked and probably unrepairable A20 heads, if anyone wants one. Let me know. Shoot, if you are willing to pay the extra freight, you can have the whole head for the same price.

[89accordex4dr]

Hiya, I have a carby powered 5spd A20A3 in my car and could I take my A20A2 cam in for a grind (stage 1 triflow) and put it in without hurting anything? And what mod's do I need to accomadate the cam grind? and does the A3 have more c/r than the A2, will that be an advantage to me? Cheers.

[snoopyloopy]

yes, i think the a3 has a slightly high c/r than the a2 or a1. and a carb cam is slightly different from an efi cam, but getting a grind shouldn't make it unusable any more.

[89accordex4dr]

Sorry to sound like dumbass but how do you mean "unusable"? Cheers.