View Full Version : Real cylinder head packages
ok folks i talked with manely for weeks and we finally got it together on how to make this motor even a bit more bad ass.
a fully built head with 1mm oversized intake 2mm oversized exhuast stainless valves. completely ported with special valve springs, titanium retianers,titanium keepers.
Ill be selling these for a whopping price of ouch $1400 dollars. there alot of machine work involved. ill try to get some dyno test on a stock motor and see what its worth. but from the flow bench work ive been doing it should be good for almost 60hp with a colt triflow. hwoever the stock ECU will not support this.
if interested please conatc me via email. in fact ill be dealig with colt and comp cams to see who can come up with the better grind here shortly.
lift shoud be ok to .600 inches and the revs should be ok to almost 8000rpm.
Gregg86DX
10-16-2003, 11:23 AM
Wow Sean, you're getting everyone all hot and bothered today! :eek:
I'm having a vision of a NA A20 build up with this head, the Diamond 10.5-1 pistons, a DC header and bigger exhaust and the stock FI manifold with your ECU and ignition setup. Any thoughts on how much HP this setup should make? Do you think a different intake manifold would work better? Do you take credit cards?:smokin:
Gregg
gregg im working on the manifold thing as we speak,. the JG b16 intake is far better then the stock a20 peice. so id think a JG intake port matched ot the head with a big 65 or 70mm TB should make between 200-220whp pretty easily with the right cam. i actually am planning alot of this for my turbo motor so i can make 450whp.
Dustin Imports
10-16-2003, 11:39 AM
Id he happy w/ 250-260whp n/a
Vinny
10-16-2003, 11:45 AM
Gregg, if your talking about going with a package like this it'sgoing to be a balls to the wall kind of motor. My opinion is you're better bet would be the 12.1:1's. I just got off the phone with Sean and of course the mad scientist is at work and the wheels are turning. It definitely isn't going to be a just slap the head on, do the pistons and you're done kind of deal. Personally I doubt that the DC's would be a good bet on a motor like this. They are fine on a stock or slightly modified A20 but with the kinda of breathing you'll need I don't think they will cut it. I know Sean doesn't go off half cocked and not think about the whole picture before he starts letting the cat outta the bag so there will probably be more to come, as I know there always is. Like Sean says, sspeed cost $$$$$$$ how fast you go depends on how much you spend
250-260whp n/a is a stretch itll be primarily a race engine at that point. not very streetable
Gregg86DX
10-16-2003, 11:59 AM
Vinny,
You make some good points. For me personally, I would like to get a more moderate setup that could run comfortably on 92 octane and would maintain reasonable fuel economy and reliability. My target would be 160 - 180 flywheel horsepower, NA.
The big comparison I see here is between a built A20 and a B20A swap. If we could build the A20 to make 160+ HP for less than a typical B20A swap, then I think we have a winner.
Would it be possible to get a lower cost A20 head that maybe did not include the high lift springs and had less extensive porting? This could be matched up with one of the milder Cam grinds to make a package that would work well with the DC header/2.25 exhaust and a stock fuel injection setup. Also the 10.5-1 pistons would probably work well here. I wonder if it's realistic to achieve the 160+ HP with that combination?
This would make a cool Stage 1, Stage 2, etc... package setup.
Gregg
Dustin Imports
10-16-2003, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Sean
250-260whp n/a is a stretch itll be primarily a race engine at that point. not very streetable
okee ;)
the real factor is camshaft selection. did you notice theres not one listed in with the head. once the flow #'s are repeatable on every head ( looking into cnc) the itll just be a matter of cam selection. i dont have the time or money to develop 2 cylinder heads.
NXRacer
10-16-2003, 12:21 PM
will we be able to use the better springs and retainers on a boosted motor with a primarily stock head? what kind of head work are you looking into for streetable boosted applications?
same head for turbo. same springs. different cam.although all stianless vavles makes the price of admision worth it alone.
toastyghost
10-16-2003, 01:12 PM
i'm going to write a script that automatically replies with "drool" every time sean puts a new thread in the performance section... it'll save me a lot of time :)
LOL at toasty ghost. whats up want a head ?
toastyghost
10-16-2003, 01:35 PM
maybe SOME head, but not from you. sorry sexy, better luck next time
anyway keep up the good work! find me someone that wants to buy this damn camry and i'll use the money for another 3g and as much of your performance shit as i can afford.
bobafett
10-16-2003, 07:41 PM
i need to get a better job!
Vinny
10-16-2003, 08:00 PM
I have a better job, I need another one LOL
Eric89Carb.
10-16-2003, 08:03 PM
OK wassup i need to know more information on the head job let me know sign on aim and i will talk to you one on one
guaynabo89
10-16-2003, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Sean
gregg im working on the manifold thing as we speak,. the JG b16 intake is far better then the stock a20 peice. so id think a JG intake port matched ot the head with a big 65 or 70mm TB should make between 200-220whp pretty easily with the right cam. i actually am planning alot of this for my turbo motor so i can make 450whp.
They actually have a new manifold out with longer runners than the Victor X ones.
I think its called the Performer X. Its for better flow throughout the whole rev range rather than just top end.
How about a price and maybe just the springs keepers and retainers and the cam.
Originally posted by guaynabo89
How about a price and maybe just the springs keepers and retainers and the cam.
theres a ton of specialized maching i wouldnt trust to somebody else. less explianing it. its either the whole head or no go.
funkytuqe
10-17-2003, 11:20 AM
So is that 60hp estimated for a boosted motor or NA??? I also assume that we ship you our own head, where are you located.
guaynabo89
10-17-2003, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by Gregg86DX
My target would be 160 - 180 flywheel horsepower, NA.
Thats not much. It will be nice and peppy but you'll probably want more.
4sillypwr
10-17-2003, 07:02 PM
THese dreams of 250 whp N/A are just that dreams. remember the 10 sec all motor crx? That thing only made 250 the the wheel out of a h22 running something like 15.1 comp. Guys spend thousands upon thouhsands of dollers to get a b18c5 to 220 whp. I highly doubt it is realistic to expect over 180 at the wheel with our engines. And that motor would be barely streetable. I doubt it would even be able to run on pump gas at that point.
guaynabo89
10-17-2003, 07:04 PM
Thats my point exactly.
You either have to go with an all out race motor n/a or go turbo anything else will just be peppy.
Gregg86DX
10-17-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by guaynabo89
Thats not much. It will be nice and peppy but you'll probably want more.
That's almost guaranteed! But this car needs to commute 50+ miles a day and not cost a fortune to feed so I am trying to keep my goals reasonable.
If it was purely a pleasure car, then I'd be aiming higher!:cool:
Gregg
Ok, just for grins here is my definition of peppy:
16 second car = peppy
15 = quick
14 = strong
13 = wow
12 = Holy Chit!
11 = Oh my f***ing GOD!
10 or lower = I have no idea, but it's gotta be good!
funkytuqe
10-19-2003, 09:53 AM
Can we order just the valves and seats??? Will they work with my stock springs?? I have a 2g lude not an accord.
AccordEpicenter
10-19-2003, 11:58 AM
who knows... what kind of flow #s are we talking about here sean?
well im looking into a few low lift stall issues. figure in the 200+ cfm range with more to come.
3rd GEN
10-19-2003, 05:13 PM
damn sean.. your workin on too much good shit..
now i dunno what i want to do..cuz of course i wanna go with b18c1 fully built with turbo swap...
but i also wanna build the shit outta my a20 and turbo it..damn......
what to do
im doing all of this becuase i hate swaps. i think there a waste of time moeny and reasources. by the time you get the engine in the car and running you could have one completely wicked ass 3g accord running the engine that came in it.
As for people asking for parts from the head kits. Dont. im not selling them in pieces. if you want the head great ill sell you one. but i doubt youll get the machine work done at the $ i pay and i also dobut youll be able to get it ported properly to get the power your after. ive been porting this head now for 4yrs and ive got it down to a science.
If you want a head id be glad to help. but dont come begging for custom parts. these are all custom parts. there are no part numbers becuase each head is a custom job. the guides have to be changed. the seat have to be changed. the springs lock retianers etc have to be changed. the valve seals have to be changed. the valvue guide boss has to be modified for the smaller stem diameter. its not a simple 20 minute job. they cost $1400 becuase i have to spend alot of money to make this all work.
wprocomp
10-19-2003, 07:24 PM
sean how are you porting these? I mean how much cfm are you flowing compared to a stock A20 head....damn sean what the hell do you do for a living,I mean shit you have been busting your ass to get this all done and how did you get access to a dyno so easily...I mean the guy I am going to work for needs a week advance to make time to dyno cars...sorry just curious man:D
guaynabo89
10-19-2003, 07:30 PM
Just for all or you to know 1400 is a fair and better that average price for all the parts listed.
You go to JG Egine dynamics or DPR and expect to pay around this price, and thats with less parts then what Sean is offering.
It all comes down to if you want to go fast............. you have to spend the money to go fast. There is no way around it. Its either you want it or you don't.
If all these things were being offred to me about 4-6 yrs ago when I built my engine I would have jumped on it n a heartbeat.
Originally posted by wprocomp
sean how are you porting these? I mean how much cfm are you flowing compared to a stock A20 head....damn sean what the hell do you do for a living,I mean shit you have been busting your ass to get this all done and how did you get access to a dyno so easily...I mean the guy I am going to work for needs a week advance to make time to dyno cars...sorry just curious man:D
stock the heads flow 135 cfm at 500 lift. going toi a thinner vavle stem brings it up to 140cfm. with the larger vavle head it jumps to 160 cfm. with porting it gets into the low 200's with ease.this exceeds the b16 ports by far. becuase the a20a is larger then a b16 we can run a bit more port and valve then a b16 and keep that good low end grunt.
AccordEpicenter
10-20-2003, 04:33 AM
omg our stock heads suck!
PortugalFocus
10-20-2003, 02:08 PM
i want my A20 back damnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
funkytuqe
10-20-2003, 03:12 PM
these are all custom parts
Oh, ok i didn't realise that. I read over sised valves and jumped out of my seat beacuse they are not available (well now they are... sort of). Props to you man.:bow:
i popped in over there on the 2g lude board. the dude talking shit about valve sizes obviously has no idea that these valves would be a good pick for a 1.8 l engine but are just to small on a 2.0. ive got the head flowing alot better then 200cfm but i havent quite managed to gian back my low lift fow loss yet. but im getting there quicly now that my new flow benchs is up and running. !!!
Justin86
10-20-2003, 09:31 PM
Shit I need to get a job. $$$
AccordEpicenter
10-21-2003, 08:02 AM
can you keep the stock valves and just port the mofo to kingdom come? I bet itd save alot of $$$$
Dibbs
10-21-2003, 08:31 AM
Sean, I did a very rough calculation and with 215 cfm over 4 cylinders, you have a potential of near 220 HP just with the head alone. Keep in mind it's a rough estimate, but I'm sure your flow bench will answer all your questions.
im getting 200+cfm per port for each cylinder
Justin86
10-21-2003, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by Sean
im getting 200+cfm per port for each cylinder
Pretty bad ass. I would love to get one but I need to save money for a project like that on a C1.
a c1 b18c1 ?? whats with that ?
Justin86
10-21-2003, 10:37 AM
Yea I now but my goal is to push hp number higher then what the A20 can do and still be streetable. If I can throw down a 11 on the track and then drive home I will be happy. If more stuff is figured out about the A20 so I can do it and keep it a 3geez I will.
NXRacer
10-21-2003, 10:49 AM
your gonna get so flamed for saying you want more HP with the b18 then you can get with the a20..... :D
markmdz89hatch
10-21-2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Dustin Imports
Id he happy w/ 250-260whp n/a
As Sean said, those numbers will bring the car more into a race setup then a streetable car. It's VERY possible to pull those hp/tq. numbers out of an N/A A20, but it's not cheap. There's a few carbureted n/a A20's that I know of that have run 300+ hp. numbers, but again, not very streetable. However, still VERY reliable.
Sean this is a great price for this work. If only I was in a better position financially, I'd snap this up in a sec. Now if I'm not mistaken, I would not need the ECU upgrade if I stay carb'd. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Hopefully in about 6 months you'll still have this.
NXRacer
10-21-2003, 11:17 AM
is the cam the reason why its not a very streetable head? I think i can speak for the majority of the 3geez population that we're looking for street performance, not drag only. I really appreciate your work here, but is it possible to have a less 'wild' setup? Is the cam the only thing that makes it non-streetable? if so, are there other cam options? or is the whole head job what makes it not too good for street/daily driver use........and what i mean by daily driver is something that i dont have to have the motor revved out all the time like drag only setups.
AccordEpicenter
10-21-2003, 04:55 PM
i think youd lose alot of port velocity at low speeds and it might harm your torque curve with sooooo much flow... im not sure how much of a gain itd be turboed... Sean i need help in this department buddy
im working on port velocity. its not that bad really. its gonna drop some low en tq for sure but not alot. im gonna be using this head with turbo and a specially ground cam.
Justin86
10-21-2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by NXRacer
your gonna get so flamed for saying you want more HP with the b18 then you can get with the a20..... :D
Well as far as I have seen this is the way it works. If Sean can find a way to make the A20 pump out close to 500hp and be cappable of throwing down 11's on the track and still be street legal. That is all I want. If it can be done with the A20 then I will do it but I know it can be done with the C1. So please prove me wrong cause this C1 project will cost up to $15K.
bobafett
10-21-2003, 10:17 PM
dude from what i understand u could run high 11's for way less than $15. and have a more reliable setup. as for being street legal, just throw on some cheaters at the track/ and some drag radials on the street. :D
Justin86
10-22-2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by bobafett
dude from what i understand u could run high 11's for way less than $15. and have a more reliable setup. as for being street legal, just throw on some cheaters at the track/ and some drag radials on the street. :D
Well at the rate we are ablr to improve the A20 it would be cheaper then doing the same with the C1. Maybe two years down the road when I really start dumping money into this project the A20 will be what I'm looking for, as of now the C1 is a little spendy but all the parts are there and it is quite possible. I'm going to give it time and see what happens.
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