Aftermarket , B16 , B18 , B18C5 Manifold + Pics + Install Advice + Dyno

[modu03]

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Installing B16 B18 Manifold

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49453






ok... people say that the b16a manifold can be adapted to fit our cars... I am looking at an aftermarket intake manifold.

what I need to know, is exactly what I need to do to the manifold to make it fit my car, and if all the vacuum lines and such will be able to be attached to this manifold.

if this helps, or is just interesting to you... here is the manifold I plan on buying:

http://www.jcw.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101&storeId=10101&langId=-1&productId=276546&mediaCode=ZX&appId=455620

let me know if that link didn't work

[Johnny O]

I made a b18 intake fit on our cars,need to drill two holes.Vacunm lines need to be tapped into the manifold or t-ed off.Throttle body needs to be from that car.

[BMS]

How much does the b18 manifold add to your power/performance?

[k-roy]

Check this out, its cheaper.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36474&item=2439388110
$125 buy it now. From a Civic Si B16. Cheaper and better quality.
I was talking to a guy at the Jegs store with a 5th gen Civic with a B18C1 swap (Nice ride) and he was buying a Edelbrock one because he could not stand the power plus one. The satin finish was peeling off and he wanted something of better quality so he was buying an Edelbrock one.

[2old_honda]

Originally posted by kroy
Check this out, its cheaper.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36474&item=2439388110
$125 buy it now. From a Civic Si B16. Cheaper and better quality.
I was talking to a guy at the Jegs store with a 5th gen Civic with a B18C1 swap (Nice ride) and he was buying a Edelbrock one because he could not stand the power plus one. The satin finish was peeling off and he wanted something of better quality so he was buying an Edelbrock one.

Woah there! that is waaaayyyy too much for that manifold! You can get a ITR manifold for that price. I paid $35 for a b16 manifold from a '00 civic si. Most people want $40- $60.

[modu03]

Originally posted by Johnny O
I made a b18 intake fit on our cars,need to drill two holes.

really... well, what about all the vaccum hoses? did they all fit right on the b18 manifold, or did you have to modify it???

also, does our cars throttle body fit or do you have to use the b18 throttle body? any mods needed for that???

I am not good at remembering what cars the b16,b18,etc engines are in.

[k-roy]

Originally posted by 2old_honda
Woah there! that is waaaayyyy too much for that manifold! You can get a ITR manifold for that price. I paid $35 for a b16 manifold from a '00 civic si. Most people want $40- $60.

Thats a good price. Still $125 for a Honda one is better than an off brand with a crappy finish.

[MoonScryer]

JohnnyO ditched the vaccuum lines, and the whole sensor "black box". If you are not turbo'ing like he did and putting a Greddy E-manage on it (I think that is what he has), stick with your stock manifold.

[Justin86]

I think it is better to go with the B16 manifold. Don't expected it to pass emissions though. It could be possible with Seans ECU to still pass.

[mugenprelude86]

has anyone tried to mate any of the b or d series intake manifolds to the a20 head? man if we could get one of these to work, dammn i know i'd be down for an edelbrock JG series intake manifold

[Sean]

search its been discussed to death short answer yes. long answer look.

[dillirk]

since aftermarket B16 intakes fit a20s with little modification I'm guessing stock ones would too. My question is would the stock B16 intake be an improvement over ours or should I just save my pennies and get the edelbrock.

Thanks in advance

[k-roy]

I would take a OEM B16 manifold over the LXi one any day. The B16 is built to flow more air than the A20 is, so therefore the manifold should flow more.

[AZmike]

The B16 intake is built to produce torque at higher rpm than the A20 intake. Expect to trade some low-mid range torque for maximum power.

[shepherd79]

i hope you have a solution to some how block the EGR valve without producing ECU code.

[dillirk]

Sean's efi kit should fix the egr code problem.

The idea of using the b16 intake is to be able to have a bigger throttle body so the stock one doesnt choke the turbo I plan to put on.

I looked at the edelbrock b16 victor x...
not for us it has short runners that are great for high end but our motor cant turn 7-10k
I think most of the B series intakes are designed this way so if we use them we will have to realy wind our motors up to see the advantage.
the performer x has longer runners and would be great but its only made for the D16 so it wont fit the a20

since I haven't seen a stock B series intake I dont know how long the runners are. If any one has a pic or a link to one that woould be great.

[k-roy]

If any one has a pic or a link to one that woould be great.

These are kinda big, but its all I got for now. I can take some more pics and measurements next weekend if you want.

http://monolith.projectgamma.com/~kroy/3geez/integra/april/100_3955.jpg
http://monolith.projectgamma.com/~kroy/3geez/integra/april/100_3963.jpg

It has longer runners than the B16 one, but I believe it flows less air. I was tossing around the idea of throwing it on the Accord, but I am too damn lazy to do a PGMFI conversion first.

[dillirk]

Cool. Thanks Kroy.
Pics are good for now I dont need any measurements yet just trying to see whats out there as far as options we have.
What engine is that one from? the runners are pritty long and sould provide good low end if it will fit.

[k-roy]

Thats from a USDM 90 Integra LS. The engine code is B18A1 non vtec.
I don't think there would be any clearance problems on an Accord, I held it up to my engine and eyeballed it.

[Justin86]

This is the aftermarket B16 that you want to get........ :D
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2479413015&category=36474&sspagename=WDVW

[smufguy]

This is the aftermarket B16 that you want to get........ :D
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2479413015&category=36474&sspagename=WDVW

That would be a good manifold for a Turbo A20 or a built up all motor A20.

If i remember correctly, when justin had his turbo hatchie, he said that the actual lenght of the Edlebrock manifold, the one simlar to the one u posted, was smaller than that of the A20, and since they dont have secondaries, its a loss on the low end.

[Sean]

lossing low end on the a20a s really not an issue. this motor make good low end power even with a hugely ported out head. go figure. more airflow to the port will certinly help.

[dillirk]

Thanks justin, I didn't know that company existed. I was looking into building one but for that price I'll save myself the headache.

Thanks Sean, does your ecm controle N2O and boost, if not could it?

[smufguy]

lossing low end on the a20a s really not an issue. this motor make good low end power even with a hugely ported out head. go figure. more airflow to the port will certinly help.

It might not be an issue if ur on a roll, but from a standstill and a heavy ass bottom end, the car still feels like its standing still and takes forever to move. This is why a forced induction comes as a help, cause it helps it move a lil faster. shit takes forever to rev up in stock bottom end NA.

[Justin86]

that why it help to have a blocked EGR, aluminum flywheel, and aluminum pulley, that shit will rev faster then you know.

[dillirk]

A blocked EGR improves low end?

[k-roy]

A blocked EGR improves low end?
Yup, Top end too.

[dillirk]

Now that I think about it that makes sense. The EGR dilutes the oxygen with exhaust gasses to reduce detonation. It also does something with emissions but im not sure what. Without it your getting more oxygen per volume.

[Accordtheory]

The egr adds an inert gas, exhaust, to the intake air to reduce peak combustion temperatures which reduces the formation of oxides of nitrogen. What are oxides of nitrogen? Oxides of nitrogen bake in the sun and result in the air you breathe looking like it does over L.A. Blocking the egr doesn't really do anything for performance, because it only operates under relatively high manifold vacuum anyway, (not under acceleration). And if you guys want to see the perfect intake, the AEBS typhoon, check out my "in progress pic". I painted it blue to match my charge air pipe. If you want to use an intake manifold that does not have a provision for the egr and keep your computer from showing a code, you could leave the whole egr valve connected to the lift sensor, vacuum line and stock computer but not connected to anything else. This way the egr wouldn't do anything, but the valve would still move and the lift sensor would indicate that to the computer, and you wouldn't have any trouble.

[Justin86]

Yea the EGR isn't going to give you big gains casue of how it operates, but I brought up that stuff for that it helps a lot with throttle responce. :)

[mag_pbg]

Sorry to take over the thread but this has to do with a B16, would it be worth it to switch out stock fuels and injectors¿

[k-roy]

Sorry to take over the thread but this has to do with a B16, would it be worth it to switch out stock fuels and injectors¿
Its not worth doing unless your injectors are bad or you have allready done some modifications. I would reccomend upgrading them only if you have an intake, full new exaughst including a header and an ignition upgrade. There is no point in slamming more fuel into the cylinder if you are not flowing more air than stock.

[HostileJava]

This is the aftermarket B16 that you want to get........ :D
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2479413015&category=36474&sspagename=WDVW


Has anyone used this yet? What are the mods that need to be made to get it to fit?

[Justin86]

Matt told me about the mani and he swears up and down about it being the best intake for the money, good hp and tq increase. He just wishes he could use it on his GSR head but he used in on a B20 swap in his friends civic I belive.

[smufguy]

*edit*

[joker2]

Well, the modification is going to be just like installing any other b16 mani. to a A20 head, which means that it takes some time to get everything all cut up and grinded correctly.... Listen to me when I tell you that this is not a one day job.... There are How-to's floating around here from Justin and myself that explain everything you'll need to know and do.... :cool:

[carotman]

Well, I just wanted to whou you a quick picture of a stock upper plenum from an 88-89 Accord intake compared to the JG Edelbrock intake manifold.

http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/cimg2362.jpg

As you can see, the Edelbrock plenum is longer than the A20A plenum WITH the tb attached to it.

I will take mode pictures but all I can say is that it will be one of the best engine upgrades I did.

[88accordalltheway]

wow that thing looks huge, how much power do you expect to gain?

[A20A1]

Hey take a look at induction tuning... http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeApeRacing/tech/index.cfm

It's in PDF format, but it gives info on tuning the length of you intake after the TB.

[AccordEpicenter]

yeah did you get some good power gains?

[RobT5580]

His car is stored so i doubt he tried it yet. I want to get mine soon with the TB and sensors to complete everything.

[Oldblueaccord]

Well, I just wanted to whou you a quick picture of a stock upper plenum from an 88-89 Accord intake compared to the JG Edelbrock intake manifold.

http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/cimg2362.jpg

As you can see, the Edelbrock plenum is longer than the A20A plenum WITH the tb attached to it.

I will take mode pictures but all I can say is that it will be one of the best engine upgrades I did.


Because?





wp

[A20A1]

Larger plenum... more upper rpm power... straighter runners...
???

[carotman]

Yup that's it!

The A20A intake sucks balls. It was designes to give the largest amount of low end torque. Especially for the 88-89 model since it has IAB. The IAB also helps top end power butthe small plenum isn't up to par with a performance engine. The OEM intake is fine with a Stock A20A but like I said a few times, that intake just chokes my B20A. I don't know why did Honda install those intakes.

On a rolling start in 1st gear, the tires lose traction as soon as my IAB opens until I reach the rev limit (7200).

Some experiences were made with a B20A5 which is similar to the B20A construction wise. A ported B20A5 intake manifold, mated with a TB spacer and a 60mm TB gave an increase of 24 hp on the dyno..... and that was just with a stock ported intake. You keep the same plenum and runner shape.

So, I'm confident I will get at least 10 hp.... I'm very conservative when it comes into HP numbers. Once I get the car dyno tuned, we'll see if it is really worth it. Oh, I'll also need a header I guess. Better breating means you also got to the exhaust out of the engine fast.

[Oldblueaccord]

Yup that's it!

The A20A intake sucks balls. It was designes to give the largest amount of low end torque. Especially for the 88-89 model since it has IAB. The IAB also helps top end power butthe small plenum isn't up to par with a performance engine. The OEM intake is fine with a Stock A20A but like I said a few times, that intake just chokes my B20A. I don't know why did Honda install those intakes.

On a rolling start in 1st gear, the tires lose traction as soon as my IAB opens until I reach the rev limit (7200).

Some experiences were made with a B20A5 which is similar to the B20A construction wise. A ported B20A5 intake manifold, mated with a TB spacer and a 60mm TB gave an increase of 24 hp on the dyno..... and that was just with a stock ported intake. You keep the same plenum and runner shape.

So, I'm confident I will get at least 10 hp.... I'm very conservative when it comes into HP numbers. Once I get the car dyno tuned, we'll see if it is really worth it. Oh, I'll also need a header I guess. Better breating means you also got to the exhaust out of the engine fast.


I was kinda looking for 1/4 mile times or maybe dyno runs. I'm kinda picky that way. So 10 more hp burns the tires huh. I figure we needed more than that.


wp

[motoracer]

honda overcompensated for the increased weight of our accord chassis, building it for low end torque :sad2: oh well i like burning the tires in the rain goin into 2nd gear and being able to mash the throttle at 2500rpm and not bog...my 15psi turbocoupe has a harder time going up hills and taking off...

[BlueBead]

Damn you and your B20! I'm so jealous..... :mad:
damn the shitty aftermarket on our biatches' stock A20s :rocket:
By the way, I love the way that thing looks... you'd better get it on there and get some pics up for us to drool over.... :bowrofl:

[A20A1]

So is that justins manifold or you bought a new one?

[Elijah]

Sorry cant find it the answer. Are B16 and b18a intake manis the same?

[RobT5580]

I think they have some differences because im looking at the BBK B18C1 and it dont have the water jacket port like the B16A does. Im gonna check the bolt patter when im at the parts store to verify the ports line up before i order mine.

[Elijah]

I think the B18A would be different then the C1. Mabey not but for some reason I keep thinking B16A and B18A are the same. Its just someone is selling one here for $75 canadian so I would like to get it if it is the same.

[AccordEpicenter]

I believe the a/b is different than the C1 and C5. The C5 is the same as B16a

[NXRacer]

i im pretty sure the bolt pattern is the same. i think the differences between them are runner lengths and secondaries.

[RobT5580]

88Lxi68 has a ITR intake on a b16 head but he thinks the b18a is different. But im still curious about the water power shown on the B16 thread here in the pic section. And the BBK on ebay is the GSR one and i double checked with the seller. The GSR BBK one does not have the water port which is what i want for bolting it up. Im going to the parts store though to double check to be sure.

[shepherd79]

here is the picture of B series manifold.
as you can see it has red and blue dots. that is the diff you have to make to fit.
I believe the blue one is for B16 and red ones are for B18. or other way around, can't remember.

[PhydeauX]

Heh, thats my old pic. Nice to see someone saved them, my server crashed long ago and I lost most of that stuff. That is actually an a20a3 manifold, but the gasket on top of it is from a b18a. The bolt patterns are slightly diferent, and the water jackets are diferent, but from the standpoint of attaching it to an a20a they are pretty much the same.

andy

[AccordArizona89]

ok so with a lil work u can get a b16 intake mani on my a20a3?

[guaynabo89]

The difference is in the top 5 bolt hole positions, and I think the water jacket changes a bit.

The type R (b18c5)and Civic (B16**) have the same setup as where the top three bolts make a small arch.

The gsr (b18c1) has the top five bolts straight across.

THe ls (b18b1) Has the two outre bolts position very high and the middle one dips down.

At least this is the only differnce I have noticed as far as how they bolt up.
The factory manifolds might have different pitch angles and runner lengths, but Im pretty sure the aftermarket ones are all basicly the same except the flange where they bolt up.


This is a ls gasket.
http://3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4016

[hondamanlxi]

the gsr is way different. On my mani box it says b16a/b18c5 not GSR

[RobT5580]

I wanted the BBK which only fits the GSR so i bought the gasket and found all the bottom studs line up great. But the port where the injector sprays overlaps the head and leaves a small gap so the GSR manifold wont work unless you have that gap filled and of course re-drill the top studs.

[mykwikcoupe]

so since this is a intake manifold thread. Which is best of the aftermarkets. Im going to be starting this also here pretty quick. I was going to go with the jdm b16a but was looking at some of the ebay models. It seems as though the edelbrock is only better in the high RPM which Im not spending much time in. the others are about the same but the one on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7951178310&category=36474 has its little refinements so maybe give this one a shot. Im looking at the straightest, shortest runners but the largest plenum to hold for the turbo quench. Im thinking maybe this one and Ill have some stuff addded to it for looks.

Has anyone actually talked to the civic guys and found out which is best

[carotman]

Hmmm, the Intake I got is from a B18C1 I think.... I will REALLY have to check into this!

[RobT5580]

I will get a picture next week because my camera is in my accord so i can take pictures of the fluidyne mod.

[hondamanlxi]

mykwikcoupe, thats the exact manifold i have

[carotman]

Ok it seems I have the B18a B18C5 manifold.. never mind :Owned2:

Anywaym, I hate the 3rd gen Accord Intake manifolds.

[Civvy]

I feel a bit of a newb asking this but hey, bollox :sad2:
I've got the B20
I'm a believer of the long stroke being good for launching and low-end torque.
I'm thinking serious bout all the work to fit the b16 manifold i.e. removing the head and having it port matched and bolted on properly.
But, i've got a few concerns, am i going to lose the low-end torque that gives me good launching? i want to increase the torque not loose it.
Surely out of the two manifolds I would get more torque from the B18 manifold?

[RobT5580]

The B16 has the same ports you just have to redrill the top mounting holes. I have the edelbrock victor x which probably is the hardest to fit. I had to redrill the top holes, try to make the holes flush since the manifold does not have a completely flat flange, and modify the rear upper mount brackets.

[Civvy]

o.k. but it wont effect ure torque so much since uve got possitive pressure?

[RobT5580]

I wouldnt use the victor x on a N/A setup if i was in that situation i would use the Skunk2 manifold which is similar to the ITR manifold.

Carotman has the victor x so if you wait a little im sure he will be putting it on when the weather breaks. Its experimental for us since were on our own finding and trying parts so we should see how things work out soon.

[2dsei]

Is there any other thing that needs to be done beside redrill the upper hole i just got one for my 89 accord

[2drSE-i]

the top mounting holes........nice to see another SE-i coupe on the board, as there are only a couple of us

[Versanick]

Vacuum lines... I had considered such a swap, but most b16/b18 manifolds don't have nearly the available places to take vacuum from as our engine controls require.

If you have the vacuum line crisis solved, then drive thru....

[carotman]

I did lose a bit of low-end torque with the Victor-X. The top end is awesome tough. Maybe a TB spacer would help the low end a bit.

[bobafett]

do you guys have any b series throttle bodies or fuel rails laying around? i need to snag some.. :)

[AccordEpicenter]

youre gonna lose some bottom end going from an a20 mani to a B16/B18 mani, their runners are a bit shorter and bigger, which is great for top end power, but for torque, the a20 intake will win

[2dsei]

is there any way to remove the vacuum control box and line and fool the computer that there working

[mag_pbg]

I removed my vacume control box but I ended up keeping the controls for the vacume advance and there was one more sensor I kept, I just went through discounected it turned the car on and listened to how it ran, if it ran the same with the sensor taken off, I left it off and vise versa.

[Versanick]

I would think that if there's any good way to convert to obd-1, a good foundation to have is starting with a b16 or b18 manifold. I doubt you'd lose much or any low-end torque. Remember, these manifolds aren't skunk2's or edelbrocks... they're honda manifolds that are meant to flow a very similar (to scale) amount of air as your own stock a20.

I'd think that the top end gain would be well worth any minor low end tradeoff.

[Civvy]

How can you expect a manifold from a lesser dispacment motor to flow the needed amount for a larger motor?
If you want a better manifold its got to be yes, bigger for top end but the 'run' has to be long enough. i.e. K20 or bigger H22 flow specs

[Civvy]

I still havent done this because i'm not convinced, especially with our R/S
Anyone compared the B20B gasket/im?

[carotman]

The B20B intake manifold is designed for low end torque. It was made to move a small truck so it needs torque. The manifold gasket is the same as any B18A/B.

People run B20/Vtec engines with a B16 or Type-R manifold without problem. All I can say is that if those manifolds can supply enough air for a 7000 rpm Vtec engine, it will be able to supply the air for an A20A.

The low end loss I experienced (before 3k rpm) comes from the fact that the Victor X runners are so huge and short that it's almost the closest thing to an ITB setup. The top end gain was awesome and was worth the trouble. I compensated the low end loss with a DC header.

[2dsei]

if we can fit the b16 intake on our engines we should beable to fit the jackson b16 super chager on to

[carotman]

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking for the past few months :D

however, I wonder if the master cyl/brake booster would interfere. I don't think it would but measurements must be taken to make sure nothing interferes. Also, the supercharger pulley must line up with the crank pulley in order to work. I guess that the pulley will have to be changed anyway so if it doesn't line up perfectly, a different offset pulley would just work fine.

The only problem with the S/C is that it costs around $2500... Well, that's a problem for me hehe.

[rjudgey]

If i fitted a B16/B18 inlet manifold aftermarket or stock would it be easier to convert to a newer aftermarket ECU as these seem to be more geared up for working with TPS and sensors from these engines??? Just a thought as my stock PGMFI is still having problems idling properly!! And it's driving me nuts!! I can get ti to run properly with minimal hunting on idle at about 1000rpm, but then if i go for a quick blat down the road it then starts stubbling and stalling!!! I have removed the anti stall device as it's broken, and also have modded TB inside to make it more aerodynamic when the butterfly is fully open as well as knife edging the outside of the TB mouth, also have a 3" CAI pipe with a large metal cone filter where the batter is, this goes to a reduction silicon pipe from 76mm to 64mm to the TB. I've also removed the A/C belt and it's bit's that attach to the inlet manifold. I also have a FSE power boost valve and have upped the pressure to 45psi. The Car is really quick right up to red line untill rev limiter kicks in but i just can't get it to idle properly!! i've tried other TB's other TPS's and ATS, although not new ones just spares i had could it be one of these of the WTS?? Just that Honda sensors in U.K are like £100 each new and if i need two or more of these it would be cheaper to upgrade to Aftermarket where the sensors are only like £15-20 each!! (good old Ford parts!!) P.S it's been like this even before i started modding the engine, also i removed the Fast idle valve as that was broken as well idle went mental jumping from 1500-2000 all the time when hot!! No longer does this but having a nice steady idle at 800rpm with all the electrics on would be nice!!! Could it be an injector, or valve clearnace problem would it be worthwhile doing a compression test?? last time i checked about 15k miles ago it was over 200lb with 115Kmiles on clock.

[Civvy]

Yes it would make it easier to convert to another ECU as there are less vacuum pipes to worry about.
If you have got a bad injector you will sure soon find out after raising the fuel pressure above stock.

[Oldblueaccord]

if we can fit the b16 intake on our engines we should beable to fit the jackson b16 super chager on to


http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=31003&page=2&pp=20


I mentioned this in this link above but it was shot down ( #21 I think), Unless a mod thinks its a good idea I dont think it will work but I would call JSC and see what they say the b16 SC manifold is about 200$ I think separate on there website. :welcome:


wp

[hot-87-hatch]

has anyone experimented with a b18 manifold on an a20a? New to the forum. Went to faq didn't see anything. The inlets appear the same shape. Will it bolt-up?

[A20A1]

Yes it will

B18C5

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=8069

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..

[86hatch]

I dont know about the c5 or type R manifold because of vtec. But I just finished putting a ls mani and a p&p head on before nopi and I love it. Of course I'am sprying so my timing is way retarded and I still noticed a difference Without spray and a huge diff with spray. I belive my mani came off a 92 ls teg. If you need anything else just ask. I'll see if my friend can help me get some pics up (I kinda computer illiterate).

86Hatch

[snoopyloopy]

what a20a1 said. only the b18c5 (b16a) manifold will more or less be a direct fit. only redrilling of 3-4 holes.

[86hatch]

Whew man you need to do some research. B-series vtec and nonvtec motors might have a little diff port configuration. B18C5 is a (Correct me if im wrong) USDM teg type R. And a B16 would be a civic Si or a del sol si Either way all 3 are vtec and not the same as a gsr and might not be the same as B18a or B18b (LS) Witch has the same port configuration and almost the same bolt pattern as the a20. Meaning all but the top stud numbers 2 and 4 line up. Get an ls manifold and gasket but save your old intake gasket to mark the holes in the ls mani. Drill, port match or take this opportunity to port and polish like I did and bolt the ls mani up with the ls gasket and go raise hell! How do I know this? I finished it last week, went to nopi sprayed the hell out of it and laid the hurt down!!!

[A20A1]

It should fit cause someone adapted the Edelbrock Victor X that fits the B16A & Type-R(B18C5)

[carotman]

Yeah the B16A abd B18C5 manifolds will fit (they're the same anyway)

If you don't beleive me... check this picture.

http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/album/aout2005_5.jpg

Of course, this is a B20A but it shares the exact same port configuration as the A20A engines.

[86hatch]

As long as what your saying is true than a B16 will work with the same mods to the mani (just redrilling the two holes). I didnt try a vtec mani but they deffinatly flow better than an ls and B16 also has a larger throttle body than a ls.

[A20A1]

For the A20 install, I think justin shaved some of the flange up top cause it hit the valve cover.

[1hot89accord]

ok ok... so just straight up if i go to a junkyard or through a jegs or some shit i can just buy a B18c5 or B16 and just take my old manifold off and bolt this new one on? which manifold can i get that i wont have to modify? i dont want to drill or anything i just want a simple take this off unplug a few things then put the new one where the old one was? are any of these manifolds that simple? or am i gonna HAVE to tap/drill something no matter what?

[A20A1]

Youre going to have to drill no matter what.

[newaccorddriver]

right now i have cheap access to a B16A2 manifold, will this manifold fit in our accords with little effort thats required? im not completely sure if this is the same intake manifold as the B16A

[gfrg88]

i think it should fit, you just have to drill two new holes on the bottom right?? not sure if thats the right one though :dunno:

[newaccorddriver]

not sure if thats the right one though :dunno:


thats what i was curious about, they have all these parts like a B16A2 intake manifold, and a D16y2 head and such, i dont even know what the last number means or if it makes a real difference. ive searched it, but didnt come up with much useful information

[snoopyloopy]

yes, they fit.
http://3geez.com/showthread.php?t=45846&highlight=b16a2
and here's a whole discussion on it
http://3geez.com/showthread.php?t=9833&page=2&highlight=b16a2

[Civvy]

yes they will bolt up. then you will have to port match the head because we have much smaller ports.
Removing all that metal from the ports will result in a very noticable loss of low-end torque and will shorten then powerband, making the car miserable to drive normally.
Yes Vtec manifolds have fatter runners, narrow runners are better for velocity.
Vtec manifold runners are also shorter which further adds to powerband. shifting.

[newaccorddriver]

i thought the less restriction it has the more power it would make. how can letting it breathe easier by porting out all the metal hurt low end power? it would burn a bit more air/fuel in the low end wouldnt it?

[gfrg88]

but having a 2" exhaust, and a short ram intake would i still lose a lot of low end power??

[carotman]

Well, I didn't notice a low end power loss that was enough to make the car annoy to drive on a daily basis. I'm using the edelbrock manifold which is even bigger and shorter than the OEM B16A manifold. The Top end is awesome tough.

[thegreatdane]

Unfortunately I was unable to get a measuring with the stock intake manifold. Well not excactly true but I had problems with the crossmember supporting the tranny hitting the rollers of the dyno, so I'm not sure if the results was correct, although the dyno is supposed to compensate for that the same way as it compensates for loss of power in the transmission. It peaked at 128hp on that run.. But I'll be referring to the dynorun I did on my Accord last year instead with a completely stock B20A2 engine (same specs as B20A1) and they were both dynoed at the same dyno.
look here if you want to see my other dyno thread: Accord dyno thread (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44128)

One thing to notice though is that when the Accord was dynoed it only had around 31.000 miles on it, and the Prelude I dynoed today has around 142.000 miles on it.


B20A1 engine with B16A2 intake manifold, I was a bit surprised too see the tourqe this high: (I corrected the Rpm scale a bit, it was way off..)

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7379/dyno8206korigeret7wu.jpg

for you lazy yanks the peak torque translates to 144.4 lbs/ft.

B20A2 engine completely stock:

http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4317&stc=1
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4318&stc=1

here torque translates to 135.5 lbs/ft.


So, worn out B20A1 engine with B16A2 manifold produces almost 10 lbs/ft more torque than a stock low miles B20A2 and the same hp. Pretty good I'd say.

B20A1 with B16A2 manifold:

143.6hp / 6453rpm
144.4lbs/ft / 3548rpm

B20A2 stock:

144.7hp / 6200rpm
135.5lbs/ft / 3000rpm

Cheers


oh, and if a mod would be so kind an add a link to this thread in my B16 manifold howto that'd be nice.

[carotman]

Sweet!

Can't wait to dyno mine with the Edelbrock manifold. I wonder if that thing is too big or not. It sure feels nice tough.

Finally, we have a proof that the B16 manifold is the way to go with these engines.

[SteveDX89]

Sweet!

Can't wait to dyno mine with the Edelbrock manifold. I wonder if that thing is too big or not. It sure feels nice tough.

Finally, we have a proof that the B16 manifold is the way to go with these engines.

I'm willing to bet it's gonna be a bit too big. I'm sure you'll see a gain over the stock manifold but OEM B16 manifolds are the best way to go on light builds.

[thegreatdane]

Sweet!

Can't wait to dyno mine with the Edelbrock manifold. I wonder if that thing is too big or not. It sure feels nice tough.

Finally, we have a proof that the B16 manifold is the way to go with these engines.

If it's too big just boost the bastard :D

When is it getting dynoed anyway?

[carotman]

Nah, it won't be too big :violin: I kept a normal sized TB so it should be alright. The Plenum is basicaly an air chamber. The runners are just a bit bigger and shorter so it can't be worse than an ITB setup.

I'll get it dynoed this summer at the same time the ECU tuning will take place :D

[w00tw00t111]

Wait so is this proof that the b series manifolds are a better choice for the a20's as well? I mean just b/c they're better for the b20 doesn't mean that us stock*not jap or euro* guys will se a gain like that...correct?

[carotman]

Wait so is this proof that the b series manifolds are a better choice for the a20's as well? I mean just b/c they're better for the b20 doesn't mean that us stock*not jap or euro* guys will se a gain like that...correct?

You will see a gain for sure beleive me. I can't say how much but expect it to be one of the best bang for the buck parts.

[Lok]

These are really nice results!!!!!! look at torque!!!!! even K20 and F20 from S2000 have less..............B20A ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I came back to what TheGreatDane said before the Dyno:

'Not really. The powerband seems more smooth now, but that's probably just a result of a loss of low end power and the top end power still remaining the same.'

As we see on the Dynograph the torque curve is smoother than before....the overal horsepower is the same but on higher rpm.
Torque improved on slighty higher rpm, but the engine seems to like the larger plenum of B16A manifold.

Before we had 140hp at 5500rpm but now we have 140hp at 6200rpm.

But overall the engine must benefits from these mods?( I think B16A manifold with KN short intake?).

Before the engine power drops after 6500rpm, but now seems to hold the power until the rev limit!!!!!!!!!7000rpm!!
The car must be faster and with over 140mph max speed????

Congrats Thegreatdane again for the good job!!!!, I think is time for one B16a manifold and a CAI for your jdm specs B20A Accord....

Carotman's engine is TOP SPEC, if the cams and the ECU (with some nice adequeate injectors) tuned on Dyno, 210+ crank hp (190whp) is not an issue...

Also, i find today this car on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1986-HONDA-PRELUDE-GSI-SILVER_W0QQitemZ4611588120QQcategoryZ18206QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Please someone (british or not) from this board or the prelude 2G forum to pick it up.

I will not buy it, I am searcing for an Accord 2.0I-16 cheap.
Prelude has different fuel lines and axles I think, so I can't do my swap.

[gfrg88]

man those are some really nice numbers, i cant wait till i install my b16 IM on, i just need some time to install it :rockon:

[Acid X]

Too bad there's no intake manifold options for us carb'd people. :(

[SteveDX89]

Too bad there's no intake manifold options for us carb'd people. :(

You could have your IM ported.

[Civvy]

manifolds being changed on most Honda engine's is the way to go for performance.
Although I'm still not convinced the B16 mani is the way forward,
Maybe the cars' just faster from all the ally you had to remove to port match (ha,ha j/k)
I'm still thinking of a custom manifold.

[gfrg88]

but he didnt port match it, he said he just bolted right up.....

[Cheeseburger]

nice dude

[adams86lxi]

ALright well im using a b18a1 intake manifold off a integra on my accord and i was wondering what exactly i dont need to hookup and can just ditch when hooking up the electrical connections and vaccum lines on this thing.

Do i still need:

-dashpot
-idle control solenoid valve
-ac idle boost valve
-cold advance solenoid valve
-idle mixture adjuster sensor
-fast idle valve (or could i just leave it hooked up without coolant running threw it?)


and anything else you guys can think off i dont need anymore. My goal is to get rid of ANY unnesicary parts i dont need but still allow the car to run fine and still have a heater lmao..

[gfrg88]

good questions, im still wondering the same things before i hook mine up too....

[carotman]

Well, you need everything that was on your OEM manifold if you want to have a perfect running car.

[adams86lxi]

IACV can be replaced by a 10w 10ohm resistor from radioshack. You won't have a regular warmup sequence and will have to manually hold the throttle open to warm up.

Cold advance, same thing.

etc.


hmm could i do that with the egr valve too? So it doesnt throw a code? Or will it not work?


also im guessing it would be fine for my to just plug the holes for the b18s iacv in the back of the intake mani with some bolts and seal it off with some silicone too right?

[gfrg88]

what could happen if the egr isnt hooked up????

[adams86lxi]

anything else you guys know about what to do with the other sensors???

[89AccordResto]

What is the point of this intake if it's such a huge PITA?

[carotman]

It's not a pain, you just retain the stock sensors and that's it. THey are easy to hook up. They're connected to a vacuum line. just get a TB without a FITV and block the EACV port.

[adams86lxi]

It's not a pain, you just retain the stock sensors and that's it. THey are easy to hook up. They're connected to a vacuum line. just get a TB without a FITV and block the EACV port.


what does fitv and eacv stand for so i know which stuff we are talking about?

O and the intake air control valve is the same thing as the idle control solenoid valve right? And on are accords or atleast the 86-87 its not even connected to the intake manifold its just on the drivers side of the engine bay right? So i think im just gonna plug the ports where the iacv used to be on the b18 manifold and just hook up the vaccum lines somewhere on the manifold for the accords iacv is if im thinking of this correctly?

[adams86lxi]

???????????

[Strugglebucket]

FITV: fast idle thermo valve
EACV: electronic air control valve

[gfrg88]

ECU throwing code, running like crap.

so what can we do so it wont run like crap?? and it wont throw a code??? i already got my b16 IM on but its running like crap and the CEL coming on, anything we can do?????

[jigga89SEi]

get a stand alone n bypass all that...

[newaccorddriver]

IACV can be replaced by a 10w 10ohm resistor from radioshack. You won't have a regular warmup sequence and will have to manually hold the throttle open to warm up.


if the car isnt warmed up or anything, wouldnt enough air pass through the throttle body so you wouldnt have to hold the throttle up manually?

[gfrg88]

get a stand alone n bypass all that...

so with a standalone i wont get a cel anymore??? and i can adjust the a/f with this right?? cause im running really rich now :hs: i wasted a full tank of gas in one day:eek5:

[jigga89SEi]

Depending on the system u go with... Pretty much everything can be individually adjusted...

[SQ is the SQUAD]

damnit i am so lost. this isent english to me

[B16KILLA]

so with a standalone i wont get a cel anymore??? and i can adjust the a/f with this right?? cause im running really rich now :hs: i wasted a full tank of gas in one day:eek5:

Holy shit dude ! You need to fix that asap.

[adams86lxi]

So if i ditch the iacv that is on the b18 intake manifold and just block the holes off in the back of the manifold it will run fine right? SInce the 86-87 accords dont have one on the intake in the first place.

and what about the fast idle valve? What if i just leave it hooked up and just not run coolant threw it? How will it run? Or should i just take it off and plug the holes in the intake manifold? Thanks!

[AccordEpicenter]

you have to run coolant thru the fast idle valve adam or it wont work. Yeah you can block off the iacv shit if your 86-87

[adams86lxi]

you have to run coolant thru the fast idle valve adam or it wont work. Yeah you can block off the iacv shit if your 86-87

alright cool, thats what i needed to know jason thanks!

[speedpenguin]

damnit i am so lost. this isent english to me
:werd:

[Versanick]

You have to figure out what CEL light you have. When my TDC sensor wire had rusted apart, I was running P I G rich. It took me way too long to realize that I needed to look at my computer under my seat and watch how many times the light blinks when I turn the car on. Give it a shot, to fix the CEL.

[adams86lxi]

hmm wired up the tps sensor today for it. i used the teg one and cut the wire harness off one end and connected to the accord one and for somereason i noticed on my safc that it takes it a second now once i let off the gas completly to drop back down from 100% to 0% throttle. I dont remember it doing that before. I wonder if i have a bad connection or something or the teg tps isnt liking the accord?

[AccordEpicenter]

are you sure you got the wiring correct on the TPS?

[newaccorddriver]

hmm wired up the tps sensor today for it. i used the teg one and cut the wire harness off one end and connected to the accord one and for somereason i noticed on my safc that it takes it a second now once i let off the gas completly to drop back down from 100% to 0% throttle. I dont remember it doing that before. I wonder if i have a bad connection or something or the teg tps isnt liking the accord?


you cant use the TPS off of an accord for this?

what year integra did you use?

[adams86lxi]

are you sure you got the wiring correct on the TPS?

hmm i dont think its wrong but i guess ill have to double check. Does anyone know what the voltage is suppose to be at at closed thortle and at wot? I think its like .5 and wot is 4.5 but not sure?

[AccordEpicenter]

ehh somthing like that i cant remember

[carotman]

just set it at .45V closed. This way, the ECU won't be tricked by any voltage spike that mught bring the TPS above .5V

[adams86lxi]

just set it at .45V closed. This way, the ECU won't be tricked by any voltage spike that mught bring the TPS above .5V

the fuckin voltage is way out of wack. I was checking sensor voltage with my safc and its like at like .7 closed and at like only 3.8 at full throttle. So if i set the voltage at like .45 closed what should it be at at wot? 4.5?

[carotman]

Hmmm, did someone mess with the throttle plate?

[adams86lxi]

Hmmm, did someone mess with the throttle plate?

hmm.. what do u mean? I fucked with it forever today and tried to get it as close as possible and then stuck it in the car and the safc is still reading the voltage different then what the multimeter read but whatever. Ill just see what it does when i fire it up.

[carotman]

Well, you're not supposed to touch the throttle stop screw. you have to set the TPS fortage by adjusting the TPS, not the butterfly.

[newaccorddriver]

out of curiosity, do we still use the intake manifolds bracket that sits underneath?

[gfrg88]

nope, the new IM sits higher

[newaccorddriver]

is that little bracket actually needed in the first place? even for our stock intake manifolds?

[gfrg88]

i dont see why we need it, that bracket is bolted down to the engine so it doesnt make a differnce....

[newaccorddriver]

wouldnt it relieve a bit of stress off the head studs cause it doesnt let the manifold vibrate as much?

[adams86lxi]

Hey so ive had my car running on the b18 intake mani for about a week now? The only prob im having with it is the fact that the idle is rediculously low sometimes.... WTF could cause this. I have the idle screw all the way out and its still really really low sometimes. Not all the time but sometimes?

[adams86lxi]

?

[newaccorddriver]

i think it might be the fast idle valve. i just turned my idle down today through that thing from 2300rpm to about 1200rpm. just gotta use the adjusting screw now. but id try adjusting that thing if possible though

[adams86lxi]

i think it might be the fast idle valve. i just turned my idle down today through that thing from 2300rpm to about 1200rpm. just gotta use the adjusting screw now. but id try adjusting that thing if possible though


yea, thats the only thing i could think of too. Ill have to try adjusting it tommrow.

[adams86lxi]

well tried to adjust it today. It doesnt seem to adjust like the a20 ones do or something. All i saw was alittle nipple thing once i took off the cover for it. I tried turning it but didnt seem to help my idle at all. It still idles really really low i mean like at 400rpms or so. I dont even know how it stays running lol.

[reanimator420]

well its quiet ya knowlol

[newaccorddriver]

try asking people on honda tech, they might know more

[AccordEpicenter]

did you connect all of your vac lines correctly? Make sure your distributor is getting vaccuum

[gfrg88]

well its quiet ya knowlol

actually its extremely loud, its awesome :D :rockon:

[B16KILLA]

actually its extremely loud, its awesome :D :rockon:

I agrre when I heard that car come up the street, I creamed my pants.:)
She is so SEXY!!

[Versanick]

With as little running as my motor has been with finally the BLOX b18 manifold, instead of sounding like a cool honda, it sounds like a full race car.

The mani is like day compared to the night of the a20 manifold's 90 degree bend and comparatively poor design. I highly reccomend.

[carotman]

Adam, I had this idle problem last year when I installed my Edelbrock manifold. Can't blame you for not remembering :cool:

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46689&highlight=edelbrock

Basicaly, the B series TB idle screw inlet hole is too small for our engines.

Remove the TB, remove the screw and drill it out to the A20A size.

[carotman]

So, did it work?

[gfrg88]

im thinking of getting a civic front strut bar and moding it to make fit on my car, but i remember someone said, i think it was carotman, that with their b16 intake manifold their strut bar didnt fit anymore. does anyone else now if itll fit????? :help:q

[MessyHonda]

he has another Intake...Edelbrock Manifold?...well if you are going to mod it just make it clear the intake...just dont make it hit the hood when you close it

[carotman]

Well, with the delbrock manifold the DC strut bar clears without a problem (better than with the A20A)

I tried a B18B intake and it didn't clear the DC bar. thegreatdane also reported that the B16A intake manifold didn't clear his DC bar. (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=628789&postcount=15)

[gfrg88]

thanx for letting me now. another quick question does it barely hit the manifold or does it hit it by a lot?? do you think i could somewhat use some washers to make it clear it??

and also do you guys think that this strut bar will be close to actually fitting the car, or is it from another year civic??

[carotman]

There was no way it would fit :(

Maybe a different bar would fit tough.

[gfrg88]

i remember someone using a civic strut bar :dunno: does any one else know of an easier bar that would be easier to mod, without welding(the accord one has to be welded from what ive read)

[guaynabo89]

Well guys I recently installed my edelbrock intake maifold and bbk 70mm throttle body on my hatch and finally completed my obd1 wiring. (what a pain)

For the mods I have done on my engine it runs great. It blows through first gear like its non excistant and pulls really high in the upper rpms. I've lost a little bit of tourque not really noticeable though. The way it pulls now more than makes up for the bit of tourque I lost. This manifold is definately tuned for higher rpm.

I let my buddy drive my car and he said it would blow his away and he has a 2000 prelude with aem intake, dc headers apexi exhaust and vafc.

It definately pulls really hard. So hard that unfourtunately I broke the front motor mount (again) and broke one of the silicone coouplings on the cai.

Anyway here are some pics. The engine bay is realy dirty right now cause I have alot of work to do and I am not going to clean it up and polish/paint everything until I'm done with the mechanics.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/sinnedone321/DSC00005.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/sinnedone321/DSC00006.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/sinnedone321/DSC00007.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/sinnedone321/DSC00008.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/sinnedone321/DSC00009.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/sinnedone321/DSC00010.jpg

[guaynabo89]

and here are sme pics of my gauges finally installed also all fully functional :D

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/sinnedone321/DSC00011.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/sinnedone321/DSC00001.jpg


http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/sinnedone321/DSC00003.jpg

[Legend_master]

wow dude that engine bay looks sick, very good job with the convertion and IM. Now all you need is a turbo :) .

[guaynabo89]

wow dude that engine bay looks sick, very good job with the convertion and IM. Now all you need is a turbo :) .


Thats next :)

Heres some pictures of how well the ports actually line up.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/sinnedone321/DSC00016.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/sinnedone321/DSC00019.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/sinnedone321/DSC00015.jpg

[AccordEpicenter]

that is a very nice setup man. Im running an AEBS im and an ITR throttle body so im looking forward to it, that stock intake sucks ass. Weld the front motor mount solid, i did and dont regret it.

[guaynabo89]

that is a very nice setup man. Im running an AEBS im and an ITR throttle body so im looking forward to it, that stock intake sucks ass. Weld the front motor mount solid, i did and dont regret it.

Well I drive it regularly and the vibration will probably annoy me too much.

Im thinking getting like an engine damper to keep it from rotating so much.

buying motor mounts everytime you get on it hard has gotten old already.

[crazykamper]

lol. ^ LOOKS FREAKIN SWEET!!! lovin ur car dude, looks very nice, keep up good work on the car,

now for obd1 conversion, how did that help? and what does it do (newb)

[AccordEpicenter]

you can fill them with windo weld but whatever you do its gonna be custom. That front and rear mount are really soft in these cars.

[EricW]

Looks great. I can't wait to install all my obd1 stuff, I just need the distributor.

[gfrg88]

SWEETNESS!!!!! i cant wait till i get mine, but im getting my head built first, and then obd-1 ;)


get us some dyno and track numbers!!!1

[bobafett]

yeah i would slap the 3m window weld in there. i havent driven a car with solid mounts, or even poly inserts, but the 3m window weld setup seems plenty harsh to me! :)

for the $20 it costs, its not a bad thing to at least try before you keep buying mounts.

[mkymonkey]

ok newb question time!


why would you make your front motor mount solid?

[Legend_master]

ok newb question time!


why would you make your front motor mount solid?


So that the motor dosent rock back and forth, but you kinda need to do it to the rear one to have a good effect.

[MessyHonda]

you car looks sweet...like the new stuff...its super clean...today i went in for the california smog check...and the car passed like nothing...well i asked the guy and he said that if the header has a carb sticker its legal...cant wait to install mine.

[bobafett]

ok newb question time!

why would you make your front motor mount solid?


also when your turbo hardware gets in the way! ;-)

[thegreatdane]

Good job! Wiring looks good too. I also plan on joining the edelbrock victorx craze that seems to be going on here on the board :) Then I'll also be able to fit my strut bar in there, not like that stupid B16A2 manifold lol.

Do you have datalogging? If you do, does your VSS signal match your actual speed after you added the resistor? and what are your intake air temps at with that gasket?

[crazykamper]

wait, what does obd1 do for you, and is it really worth swapping? (guess i will be searchin right now,) but other than that, once again, it looks freakin awesome!!!!

[A20A3quippedbeast]

man thats incredible dude. props on the mani/tb. what car was it for originally? or does edelbrock make manifolds for 3rd gens (doubtful). doesn't matter it looks great. so does your interior man, i like the white a lot. anyways your car looks gorgeous. :rockon:

[Lok]

Nice set-up!!!Congrats! go for a Dyno.

[guaynabo89]

Yeah I think I will try the window weld stuff just to saee how harsh it is.

Switching to obd1 can be compared to a really good tune up. Smooths out the engine in higher rpms. It doesnt really feel like it adds horsepower but it opens up the door for things like crome uberdata and those sort of rom burning tuning softwares.

The intake is for a b16/type r head.

The dyno will come as soonas I save up enough money to tune with the stand alone ecu I have. Its rather expensive for compitent full tuning.

Oh and the interior is light beige and burgandy. White would get extremely dirty.

The intake is cooler to the touch. It still has coolant lines going to the iacv and cold air idle valve though. No I dont have datalogging Im running a stcok p75 ( 94-95 Integra LS ) ecu.

I havent gotten a cel code though so it works enough to fool the ecu. Im hoping it sright on the money though. I'll get it all figured out when I install my stand alone ecu and get it dyno tuned.

[killa_16]

was the intake mani swap hard? thinkin bout doin it, co$t? luv ur car!!

[crazykamper]

wow, awesome, how hard is the whole obd1 setup, and how much $$/time to do it all.... thanks! i will be looking into it more as soon as the usuall rush stops.....

[2drSE-i]

obd1 is rather time consuming from what im to understand. i am also curious though as to how much this whole setup cost you?

[Legend_master]

obd1 is rather time consuming from what im to understand. i am also curious though as to how much this whole setup cost you?


I believe that the OBD-1 convertion would only take a small amount of time IF you had everything ready to install. Now removing all the vaccume lines is another story.

[2drSE-i]

and you knew exactly what you were doing. unfortunately there is alot of guess work involved. Also, what kind of cai are you running?

[crazykamper]

so technically, its not really worth it if u are not really experienced???

^ he has an ls/vtec, so i dought his intake would help us much. lol.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Looks like a nice setup... and props on getting the obd1 up and running.

Is that a hondata IM gasket?

[snoopyloopy]

looks good and inspirational. now i know where to throw my money after i get my eclipse running.

[crazykamper]

do i absolutely need to run obd1 to get have this mani runnin and workin properly???

[killa_16]

newb question beware: wats an obd1?

[crazykamper]

obd1 is the type of computer (i believe, correct me if im wrong.) i know civic egs had obd1, and newer civics have obd2.

i hear that obd1 is easier and better to tune as well.

[snoopyloopy]

newb question beware: wats an obd1?
obd-1 refers to the emission compliance level of the vehicle. our accords are in what is called pre-obd some or obd-0 by others. this ran from the 80s (maybe the 70s) to 1991. in 1992, obd-1 became the standard. it lasted as long as the eg civic: 1992-1995. in 1996, vehicles had to comply with obd-2 standards, which i believe is still the standard today. if not, the standard now is either lev (low emissions vehicle) or ulev (ultra-low emissions vehicle). btw, obd means on-board diagnostics.

[gfrg88]

man you guys all need to search, hes not the first one to do all this, this has been done many times before......... oh and crazykamper he doesnt have ls/vtec, its an a20a3 dude :rofl:

[snoopyloopy]

what fuel rail is he running? it looks like pure sex.

[bullard123]

Man you call that engine bay dirty? Man the engine bay is spotless. I'm loving the setup and the strutbar. Niiiicccee

[2drSE-i]

the fuel rail i believe is the one that they send with the IM. from what i can tell its pretty much plug and play other than redrilling the manifold for our blocks. cost? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Edelbrock-4764-Honda-B16A-VictorX-Intake-Manifold_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ36474QQihZ017Q QitemZ270003397023QQrdZ1

says 308...doesnt include fuel rail or TB

[kennyaccordlxi]

now all we need is a good how to article on the obd-0 to obd-1 wiring.

[guaynabo89]

As far as swapping a b series intake mani there is a how to somewhere on the site. Basicly you have to redrill all the top holes and the one side where the distributor sits, make a bracket for the throttle cable, plug the egr whole in the manifold so you can make a hole for one of the bolts that need to hold it on, maybe some vacuum rearrangement.

And no you dont have to change to obd1 to use a manifold like this.

I did use a HONDATA intke mani gasket

The cai I made myself with a couple of bends and couplings.

The total cost of this was about 900 for me. It could be had much cheaper though with like a stock type r intake mani. The manifold is a little over 300 and so is the throttle body. The fuel rail is an str piece and that is just over 100 plus I had to make the fuel lines ( because of the str rail) and misc things took up some money.

When i said I finished the obd1 conversion I actually meant running all the wires the way I wanted.

Ive been running obd1 for a little over 2 years now.

the conversion is not for the technically challenged. You have to be able to read wiring diagrams and troubleshoot electrical problems if the arise.

A how to would be difficult because first of al there is differences in wiring between the 86-87 models to the 88-89. That alone would make 2 different how to's. Plus it all depend on what ecu you use and whether your car is auto or manual. Like the p75 doenst have a egr valve because the 94-95 integra LS didnt come with one. Other cars will have an egr and egr lift sensor port. 86-87 didnt have the iacv on the mani like the88-89 so thats differnt. nott o mention you have to make sure your vaccum lines are hooked up properly etc. Its a veery involved process and without wiring diagrams for both ecus you are working with you can definately run into problems.

It isnt as simple as buying a conversion harness and ecu and you are good to go.

plus you have to modify a obd1 distributor to fit and run shieldedwire for the extra sensor and icm to the ecu.

The conversion is not for a novice even wit a how to. If you screw it up there will be no mechanic willing to take over for what was screwed up, and if they did theyd just revert everything back too stock. Unless tere is a good shop familiar with swapping engines and harnesses.


Ive had all this stuff sitting in my garage for 2 years and am finally glad I put it on definately worth it for me. Now all I have to do is install my nice race cam (hehe), inastall my ecu and wideband and Im hoping of putting some respectable numbers on the dyno :D

[AccordEpicenter]

remember guys this is all custom work, its not just straight up bolton or plug in, you really have to read up and have a good idea of how all of it works, and even then its gonna be a bitch. I got the AEBS intake manifold because its almost as good as a Victor X but its less than half the cost (Paid $120 for a POLISHED version) you can also substitute the throttle body from a ford for under $100 but it takes some custom work to make it work right, so you can get good stuff for alot less but guaynabo89 is more baller than me so he went top shelf.

[guaynabo89]

but guaynabo89 is more baller than me so he went top shelf.


BWAAAAAahahahahahahaha.

Na brother I just save up for moonths on end until I have enough. Plus remmember this stuff I bought 2 years ago and just recently put it on.

but yeah like accordepicenter said and I mentioned before you can get different parts that do about the same for much cheaper.

[carotman]

Well, I've been having this Motor mount problem myself too with the edelbrock Manifold.

The front mount breaks because the upper bone mount is missing. I tried window weld and it still broke. The thing just moved too much and the eurethane doesn't like to work in traction.

I already made a thread about this not too long ago.

with the help from thegreatdane, I was able to source a non hydro front mount bracket that might be the solution to the problem. If not, I'll just use a solid front mount I guess :(

[guaynabo89]

Well I sourced a solid mount form the local autoparts store with a lifetime warranty. I dont like the feel of it though. You can definately tell its solid because of the extra vibration.

Ive been looking at the Ingalls and NRG engine tourque dampers recently and I think I'm going to try one as soon as I have enough dough.

There is a question about where to mount it though. I could mount ti from the firewall to the back of the engine like the stock one. Ive been thinking about mounting one of these tourque sdampers in the front of the engine. I was thinking of mounting one from the front crossmember to the front of the engine ising one or two of the tranny bolts and the front engine mount bolts.

I dont know about you carot but I was having problems braking the front mount before the edelbrock intake mani with the stock tourque strut still installed.

If I have any luck with those dampers I'll make sure to let you know cause the stock one did a great deal and now that its gone it just feels so easy to bounce the engine around.

[carotman]

They sell solid mounts at the auto parts store!! Woa that's something I didn't expect.

[guaynabo89]

They sell solid mounts at the auto parts store!! Woa that's something I didn't expect.

yeah most of the people dont even know the difference.
You just have to call around and ask. some people sell solid ones others just sell the fluid damped ones. They usually dont know just be specific and hopefully they'll look.

[carotman]

You mean Solid rubber I guess. Maybe those wouldn't break.

[guaynabo89]

You mean Solid rubber I guess. Maybe those wouldn't break.


Oops yeah thats what I meant. Well at the very least they might take a little more abuse ,but I really dont know. I'm definately gonna try one of those engine damper things when I have time.

[b20a86lude]

hey guyanna boy thats crazy u got one of those hi tec gaskets i was contaplatin on gettin one for my jdm b20a modfied b16 mani on it buti didnt think it would work oh hey show the oppiste side of the gasket near t he distributor

[carotman]

Oops yeah thats what I meant. Well at the very least they might take a little more abuse ,but I really dont know. I'm definately gonna try one of those engine damper things when I have time.

Yeah, I'm sure we will have to use something like that. I'm a bit busy these days with the new house and everything. I hope I'll have some time for this.

If you ever come with something, don't forget to tell me :thumbup:

[mkymonkey]

hey how did you plug the egr from the header? it seems like you just crimped it. and can you post a better pic of it? i know its unrelated but i just want to see. if you want you can pm it to me.

[carotman]

I don't know how he did it but I just cut the EGR pipe , crimped it and welded the end shut.

[SQ is the SQUAD]

looking good, i need to get on the ball

[guaynabo89]

The intake manifold gasket fits just fine on the distributor side. It hits nothing or interferes with anything.

The egr tube I just cut about 2 inches from the header tube and crimped and welded shut like carot did also.

yeah carot as soon as I mount one of those suckers I'll let you know.

[smufguy]

i cant beleive i missed this thread, It looks fuggin awsome man. Props to you. OBD 1 conversion does look pretty clean. Care to take more upclose pics of it please :)

[guaynabo89]

i cant beleive i missed this thread, It looks fuggin awsome man. Props to you. OBD 1 conversion does look pretty clean. Care to take more upclose pics of it please :)


Anythign specific?

It better look clean you dont know how annoying ti was to open up the whole engine harness, solder and heatshring all the necessary connections, route the wiring the way I wanted, figure out a way to hold the harness to the engine beacuse of the new manifold, and finally wrap it all back up.

For a while it looked like colored spaghetti on my engine. lol

But yeah let me know what you want close ups on . I even added the eld sensor and epoxied it to the bottom of the fuse box.

[smufguy]

yeah like a close pic of the Dist and how you cleared the thermostat, stuff like that u know, LIke a close up of everything different on the motor :D

[guaynabo89]

LIke a close up of everything different on the motor :D

lol That like the whole thing.

Here are a couple of thje dist.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid158/p8a0b3dac16702790cd03df45d9c80550/f515bd43.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid158/p40bb2be608156b4dc00d9518a56926ec/f515bd47.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid158/p79c204b8c4e44a07f7741231fdbc8507/f515bd4e.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid158/p3af75fd37fa0b955ae18350f3aea32bb/f515bd51.jpg

If you need anymore let me know cause I need to charge the batteries of my camera.

[A20A1]

I like the wrapped header :)

[guaynabo89]

Thank you. It took a couple of hours cause I took it of the engine and made sure everything was nice and tight.

Beleive it or not it made a noticeable difference after I wrapped it. I wouldnt say I gained hp but it was definately noticeable in acceleration and underhood temperature.

[smufguy]

Thats fucking hot. honestly, its fucking hot. :D

[bobafett]

hey i have a question about how your intake manifold...

on the back of my AEBS b16/b18c5 manifold, there are holes for what I assume to be a fast idle thermovalve, or something of that nature. on the 86 accord it was the cuase of my surging fast idle, and the accord unit does not fit on the b series manifold. im wondering if your manifold has holes for similar hardware, and whether or not u used this thermovalve, or if you just built a block off plate, or if the manifold didnt even have a spot to mount that peice.

also on the bottom of your throttle body is what looks to be another sort of fast idle valve, damn i am so confuzled. heheh

[smufguy]

From what i can see, the TB seems to have the MAP sensor on top, IAC in the back and the fast idle valve on the bottom.

Image number 2 and 4 seem to show it, in post #1.

[thegreatdane]

smufguy is right, IACV (electronically controlled) on the back of the manifold itself and a fast idle thermo valve (coolant controlled) on the bottom of the throttle body.

[guaynabo89]

yup everyone is correct.

The fast idle valve is under the tb. The iacv is behind the intake manifold.

Since my idle valve was also next to the wiper motor I ran those wires through the engine harness to the iacv mouuunted on the back of the intake manifold.

[bobafett]

ok, so you ARE using an IACV, and FITV, both of which are designed for the B-series car.

are either of those items CRITICAL? i don't have either part that would fit on b-series setup, and my huge throttle body doesn't have any holes for the 'FITV', so that one is pretty much out of the question to use...unless i can come up with some other creative solution.

my manifold has a spot for IACV, but i would have to buy one, cuase i certainly don't have b-series IACV's floating around.

on my old setup (all original 86 efi accord stuff), i had unplugged and removed the IACV and the car ran great but i did notice 5mpg drop in mileage.

any opinions if i should just run without either device or if I should shell out the $ for a b16 IACV?

[guaynabo89]

Well I think the fast idle valve is really not needed. I mean it just wont idle up during start up so that no biggie.

Now the iacv doesnt have to be from a b series. It can be from a d or f series they all use the same hole to bolt up to. ( I might be mistake)Ithink the only diff is the way the collant lines come out of it.

Just get any obd1 iacv. get the harness side plug and bolts. You ccan probably even get it for free.

[bobafett]

ok, well that makes me think i can actually find one in junkyard then. :)

i hope your right. im better off paying $20 for the part at a junkyard than $200 from honda. :)

assuming the fitv actually seals and lets no extra air in when its fully warm, i will probably just have to keep the idle up manually at first, which is no big deal. :)

[gfrg88]

:wtf: i dont have none of those hooked up ;)

[bobafett]

and the car runs fine and gets acceptable mpgs? if so, good; maybe i won't need to bother finding one. hehe... it would save me money and time and make my engine bay less cluttered!

u have b16 manifold or just a20 manifold? i cant remember

[gfrg88]

and the car runs fine and gets acceptable mpgs? if so, good; maybe i won't need to bother finding one. hehe... it would save me money and time and make my engine bay less cluttered!

u have b16 manifold or just a20 manifold? i cant remember

i have a b16 manifold. the mpg is okay about 25-28 mpg, but thats prolly cause of how i drive :kekeke: i still have the iacv, its just working as a little plug though. but its still there just nothing is hooked up to it...

[bobafett]

yeah thats what i was doing with my a20 setup. i just capped the vac lines going to it, and unplugged the iacv electrical connection itself.

so you just make block off plates for the IACV on the b16 manifold then?

[thegreatdane]

if you have an IACV that fits you just leave that on with nothing connected to it. If you dont have one, then yes make something to block it off.

[bobafett]

yeah thats the plan. ill just try to block it off with some gasket maker and i'll cut out a metal plate for it. :)

after reading up at h-t and hmt, it looks like its a 'critical' peice. but my car ran great without it. although given the problems that i have had with idling the new motor i wonder if it might actually come in handy!

depending on the issues i have with the car running or not, ill see what I can do to add an iacv to the mix...

but first i think im going to try without.

[guaynabo89]

well as for me I might disconnect the cold idle valve since right now its not bringing up the idle. ( havent checked it yet) But the iacv will stay. If it will help the idle stay somewhere where its supposed to be. I mught disconnect the coolant lines to it though. Dont know what effect that might have on the iacv.

[bobafett]

i have not been able to understand WHY the IACV on the back of the b-series manifold has coolant running to it.

obviously it needs coolant temperature as one of the inputs to determine how much air is needed to pass through the valve, but in the 86 accord that signal must be passed through by the computer, because there are only 2 vac lines going to the IACV on an 86 lxi. if thats the case I should be able to keep the coolant lines disconnected and have the IACV still operate perfectly (assuming i find/buy one).

first try is just going to involve a block of plate and some crossed fingers.
i found a picture on a website that showed a vacum line going directly from the air filter side to the manifold - effectivly an 'always on' vac line, and he claimed it helped keep his idle steady.... basically a big vacum leak from what i could tell, but that might be a quick way to test if the IACV's extra air would even help me. since it seems like a on/off sort of device. the 3 wire IACV has a rotary style valve which might have a fine range of control, but i think ours are simply open/closed. :)