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Site
11-11-2003, 11:09 AM
Check this out:
Honda Crank Scraper (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2442289334&category=46098)

This is the first time I've heard of a "crank scraper". The theory makes a bit of sense.

They will make a free one for our engine for the first person who lets them use their car to develop a pattern. May be worth a shot, since it would be free. I'd like to see before/after track times.

Here's some info from their website:


Even if you use light oil, surprising power gains can be made by keeping oil away from the rotating parts in the crankcase. Crank scrapers are easily fabricated for any engine, and so are custom oil pans using billet pan rails.

It basically has to do with keeping oil off the crankshaft. … If you lighten the crankshaft itself up, from a rotational standpoint, … that car will move from point A to point B faster. It won’t show up as dyno power, but it will show up on the stopwatch.

But in any event, assume that oil passing by the crankshaft and pulses of air created by rapidly descending pistons and the volume of air entrapped up inside them will combine to increase the importance of reducing the amount of oil that becomes a “passenger” at high crank rpm.

k-roy
11-11-2003, 11:14 AM
I am going to raise the suspicion flage here. That is basically what a windage tray is.

Dibbs
11-11-2003, 12:41 PM
I've heard of oil wipers before. Never worked with one before though.

Justin86
11-11-2003, 01:34 PM
Something new. Well if it is free then what the hell might as well try it.

shepherd79
11-11-2003, 03:20 PM
i would have to say it is BS.
honda spent hours and hours trying to figure out what is the best way to keep the oil sirculating, and this company comes along and tells us this would honda extra HP.
It is BS.

AccordEpicenter
11-11-2003, 03:48 PM
Nope its not bs but the gains are minimal at best... The scraper does not actually touch the rotating parts, it just kinda wipes the excess oil away from the crank, gets rid of some parasitic loss. I think somebody should try em

guaynabo89
11-11-2003, 07:57 PM
Not a new product. been around for awhile. Gains would be minimal at best, but when your trying to get every little bit it might help.

2old_honda
11-11-2003, 08:21 PM
the new neon SRT-4 uses that same thing. little tabs that extend from the pan gasket.

k-roy
11-11-2003, 09:04 PM
I have done some reasearch and they do sound like a decent idea if you want to run an all out engine. The more oil in the pan the better. I think a windage tray in conjunction with a scraper would be the best setup. That way little oil would splash around and stick to the crank. Also the oil pump pickup will always be submersed in oil, regardless of how many lateral G's you would pull.

I just found this: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1774&prmenbr=361
I thought I had seen something like that before. I guess it is a valid product. Anyone willing to donate a block, crank and pan for testing should do so. It sounds like a worthy upgrade for $50, even though all those chevy guys can get them for 1/4 that price. Dam those Chevy V8s, you can get ten differant types of everything for them for mad cheap.

toastyghost
11-12-2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by shepherd79
i would have to say it is BS.
honda spent hours and hours trying to figure out what is the best way to keep the oil sirculating, and this company comes along and tells us this would honda extra HP.
It is BS.
Your argument is based on the completely invalid assumption that they would engineer everything about the car for the maximum performance. If Honda's engineering is so great that it can not be improved upon, why have people shown gains with any other aftermarket parts? And the claim is not more power, it's power available earlier which is the case with any mod with the purpose of lightening the rotational mass.

Vinny
11-12-2003, 09:44 AM
wonder how long they's need the engine for, I m,ay just email them for shits and grins. Tampa's not too far and I do have a spare motor in the garage

k-roy
11-12-2003, 09:45 AM
Hell yea Vinny. Its free so you might as well go for it. I'll buy one if it works out.

Vanilla Sky
04-06-2005, 05:42 PM
http://www.crank-scrapers.com/prod01.html

seems that this company did make them for us... i'm thinkin about that teflon scraper...

yeah, from the dead as they say... better than a new thread, though

Cheeseburger
02-21-2006, 10:57 AM
cool find bro!!!!

EricW
02-21-2006, 11:57 AM
I'm buying the teflon one with the baffles and the baffle for the oil pan i just have to send them the money.

HondaBoy
02-21-2006, 12:38 PM
you know, this looks so easy to install. i've taken the oil pan off before and wondered about making a baffle of some sort for it because going around a corner really hard has made oil pressure drop and my oil light come on. anyway, that looks great and i think i'm going to buy that sometime soon.

mkymonkey
02-21-2006, 12:50 PM
ok...again me with my newbie questions...


what are the purposes of these items???

shepherd79
02-21-2006, 01:53 PM
interesting, but will this really help?

A20A1
02-21-2006, 02:35 PM
Awesome. :)

EricW
02-21-2006, 05:01 PM
I just sent the money so hopefully i will have them with in the next week.

I've had problems also with the oil sloshing away form the pic up and the oil light coming on, I hope the oil pan baffle will cure the problem.

EricW
02-21-2006, 05:07 PM
what are the purposes of these items???
The scraper removes excess oil from the crank, the oil is extra rotational mass, and the baffles keep the oil form moving away form the oil pickup.
There's a better explanation on the companies home page towards the middle http://www.crank-scrapers.com/

lostforawhile
02-21-2006, 07:13 PM
great find,finally a useful item for our engines,yea i have the same problem with sloshing oil,I was going to install an accumulator tank but this might fix the problem. :eek5:

bobafett
02-22-2006, 10:19 AM
wow thats a really good find! i had my oil pan modified and baffled, but the crank scraper would be really cool. i doubt it fits with LS rods though. :( might be cool to investigate though... the price is certainly right..

wprocomp
02-22-2006, 01:11 PM
sweet! man I am gonna order me the scraper and the baffle too

Strugglebucket
02-22-2006, 06:48 PM
so the baffle has to be welded to the pan?

Oldblueaccord
02-26-2006, 04:08 PM
let us know how it works

I tried one in my car but it keep hitting the windage tray so I ended up pulling it out. There seems tall to me but I guess it doesn't hit. Spring loaded is really cool.


wp

Oldblueaccord
02-27-2006, 12:26 AM
Sorry meant I had made my own. Read my post and I can see its not complete thought.


wp

EricW
03-19-2006, 10:56 AM
Got my crank scraper and oil pan baffle in yesterday. Don't know when it will be going in though. :(

lostforawhile
02-26-2009, 09:31 PM
After doing some engine build-up research, I found a place that makes a crank scraper for the A20A's. (http://www.crank-scrapers.com)

They're $50 for the regular, $150 for the zero-clearance Teflon edged.

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/a20_tef_a.jpg
http://www.crank-scrapers.com/a20_tef_d.jpg
http://www.crank-scrapers.com/a20_tef_e.jpg
http://www.crank-scrapers.com/a20_tef_f.jpg

Baffle for the oilpan

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/a20_tef_c.jpg
http://www.crank-scrapers.com/baffle_in_pan.jpg
This isn't really required unless you're going to be building a higher-rev engine.

There's a lot of dyno testing done on plenty of Honda engines. Even D-series engines gain back about 5bhp or so.


I'm totally getting one.sorry to bring this back from the dead,but doing this now, I don't like the tiny opening in that baffle at all, too easy to clog with sludge or something. I used the method of heavy perforated stainless mesh. oil flows through it normally under normal conditions, but if you corner the car hard,the large amount of oil that tries to leave the sump,can't all make it through the holes at once,so it stays in the sump. think of it like a set of doors,normally people can go through the doors with no problem, if everyone tries to run through the doors at once, they can't make it very quickly. the time of the g force needed to slosh the oil out of pan peaks very quickly, then the oil settles back in the sump. the smaller holes will slow the oil enough when it all tries to get out of the sump area that it will keep the pickup covered. http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020124-1.jpg now i just need the cleances so i can add the contour to the baffle

markmdz89hatch
03-02-2009, 11:49 AM
nice Tim. Thanks for bringing this back from the dead. I do like your design, but I would consider coming up a little higher on the sides of your baffle, and as you said, doing the contour so as not a faak up the crank. Did you paint the inside of that pan? ..or media blast it? It looks way to clean to be just a bit of elbow grease and degreaser.

Strugglebucket
03-02-2009, 12:59 PM
I noticed on the crank-scrapers website that still offer parts for the A20 and they changed their design to a dual scraper. The scrapers on the downstroke side are angled to let the oil run off.

markmdz89hatch
03-02-2009, 01:23 PM
yep, they still offer it. I called them toward the end of last year and confirmed.

lostforawhile
03-02-2009, 02:29 PM
nice Tim. Thanks for bringing this back from the dead. I do like your design, but I would consider coming up a little higher on the sides of your baffle, and as you said, doing the contour so as not a faak up the crank. Did you paint the inside of that pan? ..or media blast it? It looks way to clean to be just a bit of elbow grease and degreaser.inside of the pan is blasted,i can't understand why they paint the inside, the paint flakes off from the constant soaking in oil and goes straight into your oil pump. i 'm trying to get the contour of the oil pan baffle now,but i still need the lowest point of the crank to measure it. I think this one will be fine for street use, the mest lets normal amounts of oil flow through it,but a large amount of oil can't go through it at once, such as cornering. this is an old tested design. there ar a number of baffle designs in use.

markmdz89hatch
03-02-2009, 02:46 PM
yeah I like it. I may try and work something out with you to hook up my pan with one b/c I'm sick of getting shot with the oil light on stupidly tight turning.

markmdz89hatch
12-16-2009, 08:11 AM
bump guys... ...just to bring it back to ppl's attention

A20A1
12-17-2009, 09:54 PM
Thanks :D

itzdave
06-30-2010, 01:47 PM
anybody got any more input on the scrapers or baffles? ive been thinking bout baffles for hard turns to keep oil in its place...

lostforawhile
05-02-2012, 03:12 PM
don't forget about the accusumps too, if the oil pressure drops suddenly they force oil back into the engine and then the oil goes back into the sump when the pressure comes back up. That will fix the low oil pressure on cornering issue

AccordEpicenter
05-02-2012, 07:22 PM
Dude, the LS rods won't be a major difference in clearance. Especially with the teflon blade unit.

I'm planning on getting my crank knife edged though, so I don't know if the teflon unit would even work for me without getting custom built for my application.

I wouldnt knife edge the crank in this application because there is no harmonic balancer in the crank pulley in this motor unlike other honda engines and the added mass in the crank will help keep the harmonics from eating the bearings to death in the bottom end. Seriously.

rjudgey
05-03-2012, 12:53 PM
Defo on crank they don't need it great thing about A20 may sound like a bag of nails and rattle like crazy but our cranks are super light as they have no counterweights which make them rev happy crazy machines!! :0)