stupid exhaust studs/nuts

[Cat3]

i was trying to unhook the exhaust pipe, from the manifold, to replace the oil pan gasket... and one of the nuts/studs sheared off... so i went ahead and just went through with the other two, and all three sheared off...

so, tomorrow, i'm gonna take a can of wd-40 to pick n pull, and get myself a new exhaust manifold.

hopefully it'll come off without ruining itself.

any tips besides wd-40?

[dXsquared]

buy a header
only 140 bucks at www.jcw.com
Travis

[NXRacer]

DONT BUY A $140 HEADER. its probably one of the worst investments. sure a few people dont have problems with those headers, but a large majority does. DC Sports is the only quality option for headers.

[k-roy]

Use this stuff
PB Blaster Penetrating Catalyst
http://www.pbblaster.com/store/images/PBCatalyst.gif

I works much better than WD40 at loosening rusty bolts. I used it on a few headers and it works great. Most parts stores carry it.

[Cat3]

does anyone know, are the studs the kind that can be drilled out, and are just a long threaded stick, that can be unscrewed some in case this kind of thing happens? or is it molded as one piece?

and headers are out of the question... i don't have the extra cash.

[Mac]

Yep definately use the PB Blaster. That stuff is good. After you spray it give it some time so it can do it's thing.

I'm not real sure about the studs but on Honda's parts breakdown it looks like you can remove them.

[Vinny]

yes they can be replaced but you will have to remove the exhaust manifold to get to them. SO in that case the better bet may be a JY manifold if you can find one CHEAP. That way ya aint gotaa go through all the work of taking yours off to find out after struggling for hrs that ya can't get the studs loose. You might try PB blaster on them first. Best suggestion on getting them out would be heat the studs at the manifold. USE extreme caution heating after you have sprayed them with PB Blaster or WD-40, make sure you have something to put out the possible fire which you may start :D

EDIT- the studs list at 5.21 each from Majestic Honda so you're looking at 15 or so to change the studs, so if ya find one from a JY for around that price, I'd just go that route

[RobT5580]

I would get new studs myself but if you have to get some used ones. You can get them out with an EZ out found at homedepot or hardware stores just be careful and remove it slow. I would NOT heat the head because it is aluminum and can/will warm under high temps. My brother broke a stud on his integra and it wasnt bad to get out although he broke one ezout so he had to get another. I also took studs off my B20A head and they seem to come out fine so i dont know why you broke 3 studs unless they were rusted to the manifold.

[Cat3]

well,
i went to pick n pull today, and got two of the three studs (they were free too, the guy at the check out just said "put 'em in your pocket")

i couldn't get anymore of them to break free... even with PB Blaster...

so, tomorrow i'll go by a honda dealer, and buy one more stud, they have them for 7 bucks.

and since i'll probably need to take the manifold off, i'll have to get that gasket too. (ended up not needing to)

man this sucks, a fairly simple repair.. turned into an at least 3 day ordeal.

I'll look into that EZ Out.

thanks for the replies

[Cat3]

well, to sum up the project, i was going to change a leaky oil pan gasket, and during the exhaust pipe removal, torqued off all three exhaust manifold studs... luckily there was a little bit of the stud left sticking out for me to drive a stud remover (Lisle brand, bought at Sears) onto, and then removed all three with that wonderful little tool. It's basically a socket with teeth on the inside, that you hammer onto the stud. Cost was 35 bucks for the stud removers... which i'll probably ebay, as i have no use for them any more, and they were an expense well over my budget. But they got the broken studs out in about two minutes each.
And for the gasket between the catalytic and the exhaust pipe, on the engine side of the cat, i just went to a honda dealership... i went to 6-7 different parts houses and none of them had that part. it was 8 and some change at Honda. And there's a hose that connects to the oil pan that needed to be replaced, as it was completely hardened. I had to saw it off (though looking back now, i think i could have removed it without cutting it in two). Those can be had for 21 bucks at Honda.
Once all the nuts and bolts that hold the oil pan on were removed, and the oil pan seemed to be cemented to the block... what i did to break it free, was drive a flat-head screwdriver, with a really long shaft into both the front and back driver side corners of the oil pan. Had to come in from the wheel well. There's two little tabs on the gasket that overhang where the screwdriver should be inserted.
Took a couple hours of trying everything else first, before i tried this route out of desperation, and the oil pan was off ten minutes later.
For me, the gasket was completely hardened, and i had to use a wood chisel to chisel it off the pan, then i went over the rest of it with an electric wire wheel, and cleaned it up real smooth.

And brake parts cleaner works so well at cleaning, i have a feeling it will be illegal in a few years.
PB B'laster is a good penetrating oil too... i used it and it worked great. I didn't use it on the manifold studs though... and i payed dearly for it.
Once the car is up and running again, it takes a while for the penetrating oil to burn off. It smokes a pretty good amount during this time.

It's all done now, and i hope the oil leak is fixed. I've changed both the valve cover gasket, and the oil pan gasket - both of which were leaking.

this post covers the problems i had, and the next post will be a break down of the whole procedure

[Cat3]

US 1989 Accord DX 4dr 5spd

Oil Pan Gasket Change

no special tools are needed
I used an assortment of metric sockets and wrenches, a couple screwdrivers, a gasket scraper and a hammer

what you'll need to buy
oil pan gasket
RTV sealant
gasket between exhaust manifold and exhaust pipe
gasket between exhaust pipe and catalytic converter (the front one)
There's a hose that comes off the oil pan you may need to replace.
oil and oil filter
PB Blaster - penetrating oil
I used a lot of brake parts cleaner to clean the oil and grime off of things. Just be sure not to get any on anything but metal.


changing oil pan gasket
1. put car on jack stands
2. drain oil
3. spray PB Blaster on exhaust manifold nuts/studs (3), exhaust support bracket nuts (2) and the nuts/studs (3) on the engine side of the catalytic converter. Repeat every so often, while you're working. Also spray it on the crossmember's (front to back) bolts (7).
4. remove cross member (7 bolts) - there's a rubber square bolted to it, with a bracket around it, that's bolted to the transmission. After removing the cross member, also remove that bracket from the transmission. It's held in by 3 bolts.
5. remove the bracket with 4 bolts, that goes from the transmission to the block. The bolts are different lengths, so keep them in order.
6. now that the exhaust has had time to soak in the penetrating oil, remove it, but be very gentle so you don't torque off the studs. there's 3 nuts connecting the exhaust pipe to the manifold, and 3 nuts connecting to the catalytic converter. There's also a bracket that comes down between the oil pan and the driver's side driveshaft, that the exhaust pipe is attached to for support. remove the 2 nuts connecting the pipe to that bracket.
7. remove the exhaust pipe support bracket. there's 2 bolts holding it down at the top of the bracket.
8. remove the flywheel inspection cover. that's the thin metal plate that fits between the oil pan and the transmission. there's one bolt at the top that will need to be loosened from the top of the car. It's a blind task, because you have to just feel around for it, you can't see it. But don't take it all the way out, just loosen it enough to slide the flywheel inspection cover down. It's got a slot cut out of it, that fits around that top bolt, that allows it to slide down once the bolt is backed out a little. Then from below the car, the inspection cover can be manuevered down and out.
9. on the hose on the rear of the oil pan, slide the hose clamp on the passenger side of the hose towards the middle (so it's not clamping anything). You may want to mess around with it, trying to break it's seal. I used a screwdriver, and just kind of pryed on it a little.
10. remove all of the bolts and nuts from the oil pan. I've heard it can come off easily... but mine did not. I ended up having to hammer a flat-head screwdriver into the front and back driver's side corners of the oil pan, so the screwdriver went down the length of the oil pan's lip. Try to keep the screwdriver close to the outside edge, as there are little bumps on the lip, that you don't want to damage.
11. once the oil pan is free, and is hanging from the hose that step 9 talked about, you'll work that hose free so the oil pan can be taken out and cleaned up.
12. clean everything up, removing all the oil and grime. And make sure the mating surface on both the block and the oil pan are clean and smooth. Also, make sure the mating surface on the oil pan is flat, without any curves or anything from prying it loose.
13. attach the new hose to the oil pan, and as you're putting the oil pan on, have a second person reach up and slide the hose over the fitting.
14. once everything's clean, and ready to be reassembled, use RTV sealant on the four corners of the block's mating surface, and a little in the middle, then push the gasket up onto it. On the gasket, one end has little tabs on the corners, that's the driver's side end of the gasket. I've read to make sure that the gasket's on, and the oil pan is on within three minutes of application of the RTV sealant. There is an order to follow when tightening down the bolts/nuts on the oil pan so the gasket seats properly. Starting with the middle two nuts (middle one on the front and middle one on the rear of the oil pan), those two are 1 and 2, then go to the two bolts to the right of the middle, and those two are 3 and 4, then go to the two bolts to the left of the middle two nuts, and those are 5 and 6. Then the two bolts to the right of 3 and 4, are 7 and 8... and so on. It just alternates like that until they're all taken care of.
17 - 13 - 09 - 05 - 01 - 03 - 07 - 11 - 15
18 - 14 - 10 - 06 - 02 - 04 - 08 - 12 - 16
And i've read that they should all be torqued anywhere from 7 to 9lbs. Try to keep them all pretty close to the same number of lbs.
15. pry the old gaskets out of both ends of the exhaust pipe, and clean the mating surface of the pipe -a wire brush works pretty well. Then insert the new gaskets.
16. from here on out, it's pretty much just reverse of the removal.
Make sure to get that top bolt tightened around the top of the flywheel inspection cover. That's an easy one to forget.
After it's all back together, and you've already filled the oil to the proper capacity, run the car while it's still lifted, and watch for any drips or leaks.

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by Cat3
US 1989 Accord DX 4dr 5spd

Oil Pan Gasket Change

no special tools are needed
I used an assortment of metric sockets and wrenches, a couple screwdrivers, a gasket scraper and a hammer

what you'll need to buy
oil pan gasket
RTV sealant
gasket between exhaust manifold and exhaust pipe
gasket between exhaust pipe and catalytic converter (the front one)
oil and oil filter
PB Blaster - penetrating oil
I used a lot of brake parts cleaner to clean the oil and grime off of things. Just be sure not to get any on anything but metal.

changing oil pan gasket
1. put car on jack stands
2. drain oil
3. spray PB Blaster on exhaust manifold nuts/studs (3), exhaust support bracket nuts (2) and the nuts/studs (3) on the engine side of the catalytic converter. Repeat every so often, while you're working. Also spray it on the crossmember's (front to back) bolts (7).
4. remove cross member (7 bolts) - there's a rubber square bolted to it, with a bracket around it, that's bolted to the transmission. After removing the cross member, also remove that bracket from the transmission. It's held in by 3 bolts.
5. remove the bracket with 4 bolts, that goes from the transmission to the block. The bolts are different lengths, so keep them in order.
6. now that the exhaust has had time to soak in the penetrating oil, remove it, but be very gentle so you don't torque off the studs. there's 3 nuts connecting the exhaust pipe to the manifold, and 3 nuts connecting to the catalytic converter. There's also a bracket that comes down between the oil pan and the driver's side driveshaft, that the exhaust pipe is attached to for support. remove the 2 nuts connecting the pipe to that bracket.
7. remove the exhaust pipe support bracket. there's 2 bolts holding it down at the top of the bracket.
8. remove the flywheel inspection cover. that's the thin metal plate that fits between the oil pan and the transmission. there's one bolt at the top that will need to be loosened from the top of the car. It's a blind task, because you have to just feel around for it, you can't see it. But don't take it all the way out, just loosen it enough to slide the flywheel inspection cover down. It's got a slot cut out of it, that fits around that top bolt, that allows it to slide down once the bolt is backed out a little. Then from below the car, the inspection cover can be manuevered down and out.
9. on the hose on the rear of the oil pan, slide the hose clamp on the passenger side of the hose towards the middle (so it's not clamping anything). You may want to mess around with it, trying to break it's seal. I used a screwdriver, and just kind of pryed on it a little.
10. remove all of the bolts and nuts from the oil pan. I've heard it can come off easily... but mine did not. I ended up having to hammer a flat-head screwdriver into the front and back driver's side corners of the oil pan, so the screwdriver went down the length of the oil pan's lip. Try to keep the screwdriver close to the outside edge, as there are little bumps on the lip, that you don't want to damage.
11. once the oil pan is free, and is hanging from the hose that step 9 talked about, you'll work that hose free so the oil pan can be taken out and cleaned up.
12. clean everything up, removing all the oil and grime. And make sure the mating surface on both the block and the oil pan are clean and smooth. Also, make sure the mating surface on the oil pan is flat, without any curves or anything from prying it loose.
13. attach the new hose to the oil pan, and as you're putting the oil pan on, have a second person reach up and slide the hose over the fitting.
14. once everything's clean, and ready to be reassembled, use RTV sealant on the four corners of the block's mating surface, and a little in the middle, then push the gasket up onto it. On the gasket, one end has little tabs on the corners, that's the driver's side end of the gasket. I've read to make sure that the gasket's on, and the oil pan is on within three minutes of application of the RTV sealant. There is an order to follow when tightening down the bolts/nuts on the oil pan so the gasket seats properly. Starting with the middle two nuts (middle one on the front and middle one on the rear of the oil pan), those two are 1 and 2, then go to the two bolts to the right of the middle, and those two are 3 and 4, then go to the two bolts to the left of the middle two nuts, and those are 5 and 6. Then the two bolts to the right of 3 and 4, are 7 and 8... and so on. It just alternates like that until they're all taken care of.
17 13 9 5 1 3 7 11 15
18 14 10 6 2 4 8 12 16
And i've read that they should all be torqued anywhere from 7 to 9lbs. Try to keep them all pretty close to the same number of lbs.
15. pry the old gaskets out of both ends of the exhaust pipe, and clean the mating surface of the pipe -a wire brush works pretty well. Then insert the new gaskets.
16. from here on out, it's pretty much just reverse of the removal.
Make sure to get that top bolt tightened around the top of the flywheel inspection cover. That's an easy one to forget.
After it's all back together, and you've already filled the oil to the proper capacity, run the car while it's still lifted, and watch for any drips or leaks.

GREAT MODERATORS OF 3GEEZ..
Heed my request. Sticky this in the F.A.Q. after cleaning up the thread. This...is my humble request.

[k-roy]

Good job. I am glad to hear its fixed. Ditto to zero, this should be a howto.