The great VTEC debate.

[k-roy]

So let it begin.

I want everyones opinion on this one. Hopefully it will be a good debate.


VTEC SUCKS!


I am going to get a of B20Z in the spring, hopefully sooner. I am going to get a pair of nice agressive non vtec cams. Why is this? Because I want more power.

Sure VTEC is great at high rpms, it reminds me of a roller cam. But it is a comprimise at lower RPMs. You get lower emissions and a smoother idle. I really don't care about that, I'll just crank up the idle and forget about it. I don't have e-chacks to worry about either.

Is this stupid or a good idea?

[87AccordsterLx]

They make performance chips to kick vtec in whenever you want it to. Some people would rather have control of when they get the power. If you go on a long trip you can put the OEM chip back in and get awesome fuel economy.

I am personally not a fan of vtec, I think it's over-rated but to each his own. I do know that if you wish to boost, engines with vtec have a higher compression so you have a disadvantage there. My dad's 98 accord has vtec and it's pretty nice to hear that thing kick in and watch the rpms fly to redline. While in vtec his Acccord revs twice as fast as mine does. Granted, my Accord is still faster then his but he definitely has power where I don't.

[deadlight]

It's nothing special, it's just like having secondaries, I don't think it's revolutionary at all.

[k-roy]

Originally posted by 87AccordsterLx
They make performance chips to kick vtec in whenever you want it to. Some people would rather have control of when they get the power. If you go on a long trip you can put the OEM chip back in and get awesome fuel economy.

Thats nice and all but my 3G gets 43mpg on the highway. The B is for an Integra.

Hell I might even be crazy enough to put a pair of DCOEs on the little bitch.

[88LXi68]

Have you ever driven a built N/A vtec car? To get any N/A power out of these engines and STILL be drivable on the street you need vtec. For example, why does the H22A have 190hp and the H23A have 160? Vtec. Why does a B18B have 142hp where as a b18C1 has 170? Vtec. So yes it does offer emissions shit, but they make some nasty cams that will fuck emissions. Dont get me wrong, you can make a NON-VTEC engine very fast, but how streetable will the set up be?

[RobT5580]

I guess you have to drive some Vtec cars to appreciate it. All i know is the JDM H22 has plenty of power out the box. We did my friends swap last winter and when we finished all he did to it was a header, intake, and msd and that things was pretty sweet for a stock motor. Unfortunatly his head warped or cracked so its been off the road for awhile but he got a new head and had it ported and polished, valve springs, and Crower cams are on the way finally so hopefully i will get to see how it goes before it snows.

[3G Jester]

my av6 has vtec. i rememmber the first time i drove it after driving the 3g....bam the thing redlined when i floored it. i thought i blew something but all the sudden i was flyyying. it was hot.

[k-roy]

Originally posted by 88LXi68
Have you ever driven a built N/A vtec car? To get any N/A power out of these engines and STILL be drivable on the street you need vtec. For example, why does the H22A have 190hp and the H23A have 160? Vtec. Why does a B18B have 142hp where as a b18C1 has 170? Vtec. So yes it does offer emissions shit, but they make some nasty cams that will fuck emissions. Dont get me wrong, you can make a NON-VTEC engine very fast, but how streetable will the set up be?

Yes I have driven cars with VTEC. A 96 Accord, 97 Integra GSR, 02 S2000, 03 Civic Si, 95 Prelude a few more I can't think of right now. They were all nice cars. The only VTEC system that impressed me was the S2000.

The H23 would have more power with a more agressive cam. The B18b has lower compression and the head does not flow as much air and has a more conservitive cam profile then the B18C1.

I want a nasty cam. I grew up in a town where the Mopar National meet is held every year and there is a Jegs store on Main st. Every other modded car has a roller cam with a big carb. So yea, I want some of that in a Honda. Call me carzy call me stupid I don't really care. I'll tke a couple of DCOEs and a wicked cam please.:flip:

[zero.counter]

VTEC has a purpose and it serves it well. Just leave it alone because it is not going anywhere and it evolving as emissions control becomes tighter. If anyone does not like it, just leave it and buy a Ford Focus...;)

[SteveDX89]

I thought the Focus had variable valve timing. Isn't Ford's called Zetec?

[k-roy]

Originally posted by SteveDX89
I thought the Focus had variable valve timing. Isn't Ford's called Zetec?

You are corrct. They get like 130hp out of a 2 Litre. Its not that great.

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by SteveDX89
I thought the Focus had variable valve timing. Isn't Ford's called Zetec?
Sorry bro, I was being sarcastic...somewhat tame however. Yeah, the Zetec is their rendition of the VTEC (kind of) but the focus sucks as a whole package.

[Blue Impact]

I don't know anything about the Focus, other than it was made by Ford, but isn't VVT-i similar to VTEC, just that it's a little better? I agree with zero, VTEC has a purpose, so does VTECH. :D

[88LXi68]

Originally posted by kroy
Yes I have driven cars with VTEC. A 96 Accord, 97 Integra GSR, 02 S2000, 03 Civic Si, 95 Prelude a few more I can't think of right now. They were all nice cars. The only VTEC system that impressed me was the S2000.

The H23 would have more power with a more agressive cam. The B18b has lower compression and the head does not flow as much air and has a more conservitive cam profile then the B18C1.

I want a nasty cam. I grew up in a town where the Mopar National meet is held every year and there is a Jegs store on Main st. Every other modded car has a roller cam with a big carb. So yea, I want some of that in a Honda. Call me carzy call me stupid I don't really care. I'll tke a couple of DCOEs and a wicked cam please.:flip:

Yeah aggressive cams, but go on g2ic and check out all the n/a guys with b18a1 or b20b/z that are non vtec. There arent many because the amount required to get the HP out of it makes it non streetable. The better route is forced induction with those engines. If you arent worried about streetability then that is a HUGE difference.

[deadlight]

Originally posted by kroy
You are corrct. They get like 130hp out of a 2 Litre. Its not that great.

Yeah, but that's a base focus, kind of like how a base Civic doesn't get much more, an SVT however gets 170 from that 2 liter, compared to the Si's 160 from a 2 liter. So it's pretty even, 130 is not great, but it isn't meant to be either, and yes, I know the RSX's K20 gets 200 hp so don't bother with that point anybody.

[Stefi-blueLX]

Personally, I REALLY enjoy the VTEC. It's a nice little device. When I bought the Prelude, I wasn't impressed at all. Slow acceleration, but that VTEC...I liked. It just seems to take forever to kick in! But I really don't use it all the time. I usually kick it in about 3x every 2 weeks, just to remind myself it's there :D. It's nice to hear. But after awhile, the excitemnet of it just dies down. So to me, it's just nice to have. I'm happy with or without it.

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by Stefi-blueLX
Personally, I REALLY enjoy the VTEC. It's a nice little device. When I bought the Prelude, I wasn't impressed at all. Slow acceleration, but that VTEC...I liked. It just seems to take forever to kick in! But I really don't use it all the time. I usually kick it in about 3x every 2 weeks, just to remind myself it's there :D. It's nice to hear. But after awhile, the excitemnet of it just dies down. So to me, it's just nice to have. I'm happy with or without it.

Is ur prelude 5spd?

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by Stefi-blueLX
I usually kick it in about 3x every 2 weeks, just to remind myself it's there :D. It's nice to hear. But after awhile, the excitemnet of it just dies down. So to me, it's just nice to have. I'm happy with or without it.
Just buy a VTEC controller and "You don't have to call, it's okay girl...". Sorry, I had an Usher moment.

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
Just buy a VTEC controller and "You don't have to call, it's okay girl...". Sorry, I had an Usher moment.


VAFC is useless in a stock car.

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by 86dxAccord
VAFC is useless in a stock car.
Hmmm, that's funny. I guess Adrian over at Hybrid Garage must be full of shit. Oh well. :flash:

Oh yeah, almost forgot...:)

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
Hmmm, that's funny. I guess Adrian over at Hybrid Garage must be full of shit. Oh well.

Why use a VAFC on a stock car? Advancing the xcrossover is just going to make you loose power. VAFC works best when up grade ur head and u can dyno tune your with a VAFC.

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by 86dxAccord
Why use a VAFC on a stock car? Advancing the xcrossover is just going to make you loose power. VAFC works best when up grade ur head and u can dyno tune your with a VAFC.
Why not?

"On long striaghts, I was able to lean the mixture out and move the VTEC activation point to beyond the cruising speed. This gave me an estimated 40mpgfuel consumption. As the roads became more and more curved as I got nearer and nearer to San Francisco,I needed more power. Taking down the VTEC point to like 4000rpm, and richening out the fuel mix to compensate for the extra power requirements, the car performed a lot better over stock as it stayed within the VTEC range.

Finally, a week ago when I took my car in for emissions tests, the SFC-VTEC again proved itself useful. Leaning out my car to 5% lean, and taking up the VTEC point to 7000 rpm so that VTEC will not avtivate. Verdict - The car's emissions was even cleaner than that of the stock 1.5L, 8 valve engine. If course, I passed. "

Just something I picked up along the way.

Again, why not? Give me some reasons.
The second part of your comment could be perceived as fact by some and opinion by others as well.

[zero.counter]

I guess I should have looked at the part where you said "Useless", and stopped right there. I can't change your opinion and vice-versa right? :)

Oh yeah, :D and :flash:

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
Why not?

"On long striaghts, I was able to lean the mixture out and move the VTEC activation point to beyond the cruising speed. This gave me an estimated 40mpgfuel consumption. As the roads became more and more curved as I got nearer and nearer to San Francisco,I needed more power. Taking down the VTEC point to like 4000rpm, and richening out the fuel mix to compensate for the extra power requirements, the car performed a lot better over stock as it stayed within the VTEC range.

Finally, a week ago when I took my car in for emissions tests, the SFC-VTEC again proved itself useful. Leaning out my car to 5% lean, and taking up the VTEC point to 7000 rpm so that VTEC will not avtivate. Verdict - The car's emissions was even cleaner than that of the stock 1.5L, 8 valve engine. If course, I passed. "

Just something I picked up along the way.

Again, why not? Give me some reasons.
The second part of your comment could be perceived as fact by some and opinion by others as well.


Shyt! I can Copy & Paste just you!

VTEC stands for Variable Valve Timing and Electronic Lift Control. The premise is that at low RPMs and at idle, a less aggressive cam grind is necessary to prevent "loping." Ever hear a pro drag car staging up at the gates? Sounds like it's about to stall. It's because he's running aggressive camshafts, and since the cam is spinning more slowly at idle, the intake valve is still open after combustion has completed. That's what causes loping. At higher RPMs, a more aggressive grind is desirable. The idea is that you want to cram as much air and fuel mixture (A/F) into that combustion chamber as possible, so that when it's ignited you get as grandiose an explosion as possible. So what is good at low RPMs is bad for high RPMs. So what do you do?

If you're Honda, you invent VTEC. What VTEC does is simply to employ different cam grinds at different RPMs. A less aggressive grind at low RPMs for a smooth idle and low to mid range power, and a more aggressive grind up high to produce that high end pop. At a strategically placed "VTEC crossover point," the camshaft switches grind from the less aggressive to the more aggressive.

What determines this point? Hours and hours dyno testing and tuning. If it is set too low, the more aggressive grind will kick in early, bogging down the engine (think "loping" at 3500 RPM). Too high, and the engine is missing out on valuable time it could be spending with the VTEC engaged. So all those fools who spent $400 on a VTEC timer running stock camshafts just so they could get their VTEC to kick in earlier- they're idiots. They just cost themselves a ton of midrange power. The stock crossover point is optimized for stock camshafts.

So when is a VTEC timer necessary? Easy- when you're no longer running stock camshafts.


If you want big power all motor, you go with one of the big players in the cam game- Toda Spec B and C, or Jun Stage 2 and 3, and you accept no substitutes. All (or at least 95%) of the 225+ all motor whp B18s are running these camshafts.

How does this relate to VTEC crossover point? Well, the VTEC grinds on these cams are so aggressive, that the VTEC point needs to be moved up- way up- usually to 6500-7000 RPM. These cams will also make power to 9500+ RPM (READ: Built motor). Run these in conjunction with high compression pistons (at least 10.5:1), and you'll have yourself an all motor wonder

[zero.counter]

Alright newb, you wanna play games :) First of all, I quoted my entry, then I asked "WHY NOT" ? I know what VTEC is, so please do not come here and preach to the choir. Personal experience dictates its use on a stock engine with some good outcomes, although not as good as Adrian's. I am not talking and never said big power or anything of the sort. I simply suggested its use regardless with the point being to adjust. Now again, tell me why not and that it will be bad for the stock engine in all ways and I will rescind, otherwise, please rethink your strategy.

Oh yeah, :) and :flash:

I am not debating its' built engine usage but moreso the fact that you said it was useless and said why would you.

Oh, and this is an opinion. Tell that to what I have seen and heard.
WHY NOT?

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
Alright newb, you wanna play games :) First of all, I quoted my entry, then I asked "WHY NOT" ? I know what VTEC is, so please do not come here and preach to the choir. Personal experience dictates its use on a stock engine with some good outcomes, although not as good as Adrian's. I am not talking and never said big power or anything of the sort. I simply suggested its use regardless with the point being to adjust. Now again, tell me why not and that it will be bad for the stock engine in all ways and I will rescind, otherwise, please rethink your strategy.

Never said it was bad. Just useless. You wont make ur car faster, just slow it down.. My reply was for the get a "VTEC CONTROLLER" Comment. Which you made, because she said her crossover takes forever. Nobody mentioned the other uses of the VAFC. Why give somebody the wrong advice. I also have a feeling her prelude is automatic, since she claims her 4400k crossover takes forever. As fer the Newbie comment.. http://www.hondahookup.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/gay.gif

[zero.counter]

Never said it was bad. Just useless. You wont make ur car faster, just slow it down..
Again, an opinion. I failed to see that with my own eyes but I am just a liar. Opinions help somewhat, but you have to consider the source in some cases.

My reply was for the get a "VTEC CONTROLLER" Comment. Which you made, because she said her crossover takes forever.
Which explains my reason for even bringing it up. A future possibility and the foundation of a good start by doing so.

Nobody mentioned the other uses of the VAFC.
Exactly, I was being generic. I never told her, "Yeah, buy one today, plug it in and watch your car soar to a warp factor of 1 under 3k RPMS"!

Why give somebody the wrong advice.
Exactly, which is why I am contradicting you.

I also have a feeling her prelude is automatic, since she claims her 4400k crossover takes forever.
It is good to have feelings, it means you are alive, but you are assuming, which is a bad trait and dangerous. I never stated the VAFC's purpose with the STD or AUTO, just a generic use and its possibilites.

As fer the Newbie comment.. http://www.hondahookup.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/gay.gif
I am sorry, but you are what you are. There is no changing that. If it bothers you, then build a bridge and get over it.

You are right, I am trying to get her to screw up her car and that was my honest suggestion. You caught me, I am a dumb poster with no knowledge and post here to look like someones jackass. :rolleyes: :D

Oh, I keep forgetting...:) and :D and :flash:

I am not meaning to hurt anyone's feelings or disrespect, just stating in a positive tone. :wave:

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
Never said it was bad. Just useless. You wont make ur car faster, just slow it down..
Again, an opinion. I failed to see that with my own eyes but I am just a liar. Opinions help somewhat, but you have to consider the source in some cases.

My reply was for the get a "VTEC CONTROLLER" Comment. Which you made, because she said her crossover takes forever.
Which explains my reason for even bringing it up. A future possibility and the foundation of a good start by doing so.

Nobody mentioned the other uses of the VAFC.
Exactly, I was being generic. I never told her, "Yeah, buy one today, plug it in and watch your car soar to a warp factor of 1 under 3k RPMS"!

Why give somebody the wrong advice.
Exactly, which is why I am contradicting you.

I also have a feeling her prelude is automatic, since she claims her 4400k crossover takes forever.
It is good to have feelings, it means you are alive, but you are assuming, which is a bad trait and dangerous. I never stated the VAFC's purpose with the STD or AUTO, just a generic use and its possibilites.

As fer the Newbie comment.. http://www.hondahookup.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/gay.gif
I am sorry, but you are what you are. There is no changing that. If it bothers you, then build a bridge and get over it.

You are right, I am trying to get her to screw up her car and that was my honest suggestion. You caught me, I am a dumb poster with no knowledge and post here to look like someones jackass. :rolleyes: :D

Oh, I keep forgetting...:) and :D and :flash:

I am not meaning to hurt anyone's feelings or disrespect, just stating in a positive tone. :wave:


AGAIN.. It is a proven fact in the HONDA TUNING WORLD, that when you advance a vtec crossover( Specially in a stock car ) you lose power. That why's every chipped ECU or Hondata system purchased has the crossover retarded. This same reason you do not advance stock crossover. LOL@ the newbie comment again. That other extra shyt is gay..

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by 86dxAccord
AGAIN.. It is a proven fact in the HONDA TUNING WORLD, that when you advance a vtec crossover( Specially in a stock car ) you lose power. That why's every chipped ECU or Hondata system purchased has the crossover retarded. This same reason you do not advance stock crossover. LOL@ the newbie comment again. That other extra shyt is gay..
This will be my last post, I promise. :lol

Ask me if I even care about being in the proverbial "HONDA TUNING WORLD". :lol

I tune because I like it, not to please others or gain respect or whatever. It is a (now) fun hobby, as I am spending time on my real life goal, getting through med school. Go figure :rolleyes:

I own a honda, have worked on them for years, have personal experience with different aspects of not only hondas but also Nissans and mitsus; and don't see where a number of proven tuners, who are not sponsored by Apexi or any other VTEC controller maker have shown or proven otherwise.

Just some guy with a 1986 accord stating that he knows better. I tell you what, the macho I know more than you attitude stops now. If you want to continue making yourself look like a whatever, then do so.

It is an option to a modified or HONDATA ECU, for tuning. That is what it does, you can't paint it otherwise.

Again, your performance opinion may just well be due to improper tuning. I again was being vague and you fail to notice that I never mentioned "2 FAST 2 FURIOUS" types of speeds or anything crazy tuner like that. My take, if you have ever read any of my previous posts, is not for big bad ass performance, but mostly fuel economy which this will let you adjust somewhat. I did however post that it can help with power with proper adjustments.


The newbie comment sticks, as it appears that you have had this experience in the past. Plain and simple, you are new to the forum. Call it whatever you want, just deal with it.

Anyways, peace out! :flash: :D

I did not forget this time. If you want, I can go at this until I leave work in 30 minutes and continue tomorrow. You will not change my experience and feelings about the VAFC.

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
This will be my last post, I promise. :lol

Just some guy with a 1986 accord stating that he knows better. I tell you what, the macho I know more than you attitude stops now. If you want to continue making yourself look like a whatever, then do so.

.

dats funny. Remember this comment? but you are assuming, which is a bad trait and dangerous. U still wrong! Done!

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by 86dxAccord
dats funny. Remember this comment? but you are assuming, which is a bad trait and dangerous. U still wrong! Done!
So then I guess that you don't own at least an 86 accord, and you are admitting that you don't know better than me. U still wrong and are wasting my time. I barely assume, I sometimes make vague comments to cover my track (I learned from my wife). I remember it well. :lol

BTW, I don't always practice what I preach anyways, otherwise my front yard would look nice and my garage would be clean! :cool:

[87AccordsterLx]

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question229.htm

[88LXi68]

All i have to say is that lowering your vtec point DOESNT always mean it is good. I am running an LS/VTEC w/ CTR cams and a fair bit of work. I had a spoon chip and it kicked vtec at 4400. When my car hit this RPM it went NO WHERE. Before this point it moved and once 5200 came it moved again. but from 4400 to5100 it was dog shit. Now I have chip that kicks vtec at 5500 and I must say it pulls hard up to it and it pulls hard through it to 8200. All I am saying is lowering vtec isnt always a good idea.

[k-roy]

Ok maybe I should explain my point a little better. I want to race my car. So I'll keep my 3G as a beater because its reliable and cheap on gas and insurance. It would cost me more in a month to drive the Teg around on a daily basis and sell the 3G than keeping it around. I want the DCOEs on it because it is a hell of a lot cheaper than a comprable PGMFI setup. So I want to run it old school without an ECU and be able to smoke GSRs. This is going to be a fun project. I'll have the car up and running by june and have all the parts in it by the end of next year.

[zero.counter]

Look guys, I never said to purchase a VTEC VAFC controller to burn rubber and increase your performance two fold, I argued that it was not totally useless and could be utilized for the gasoline concious folks out there. Not everyone is obsessed with racing, it's a phase for most people and a lapse in judgement for those not on or in a sanctioned event, track, or controlled environment for driving.

Kroy, I love your threads, they keep me sharp...

[HostileJava]

Hmmm.....I'm just going to vote I'm not going to say anything.

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
Look guys, I never said to purchase a VTEC VAFC controller to burn rubber and increase your performance two fold, I argued that it was not totally useless and could be utilized for the gasoline concious folks out there. Not everyone is obsessed with racing, it's a phase for most people and a lapse in judgement for those not on or in a sanctioned event, track, or controlled environment for driving.

Kroy, I love your threads, they keep me sharp...

Why would use a VAFC to save gas? The crossover is usually set @ 4400k from Honda. I see no reason for Gas conscious driver to be near the crossover. No Crossover, Gas saved and no Need for a VAFC. If ur looking to save gas, #1 buy a non-vtec engine. DX/GS trims and you would not have to worry about GAS Consumption after the crossover. Also, when you to advance the crossover on a stock engine , it beings loose to power @ 4400k.

[zero.counter]

Why would use a VAFC to save gas?
I'm sorry, why not?

The crossover is usually set @ 4400k from Honda. I see no reason for Gas conscious driver to be near the crossover. No Crossover, Gas saved and no Need for a VAFC. If ur looking to save gas, #1 buy a non-vtec engine. DX/GS trims and you would not have to worry about GAS Consumption after the crossover. Also, when you to advance the crossover on a stock engine , it beings loose to power @ 4400k.

Once you put in a VTEC controller, you can start the fuel saving. Furhter more you can improve the engine response starting at 4500 RPM. You take the choice instead of the ECU making the choice. If you are running a trip and you want to save fuel you can set up the VTEC to engage at 6500 RPM and you can save a lot of fuel. On the other end if you are "Racing" the car you can set it up at 4500 and if you shift from 2nd to 3rd you will be always inside the VTEC power band. Some of the VTEC controllers can also setup the fuel injectors. But yes, with cam upgrades + more for the performance.

Again, whatever :rolleyes:

I apologize for your misunderstanding of my posts and the fact that I have stated over and over that I am not stressing its' use for power gains, but fuel economy as well. I have seen it and so have others. I tell you what, venture over to Automotive Forums and Temple of VTEC and tell them otherwise. While many of them share your opinion, many also share mine. Kind of like, "tastes great, less filling".

BTW, I thought you were out of here?

[zero.counter]

Oh, I forgot.

If ur looking to save gas, #1 buy a non-vtec engine. DX/GS trims and you would not have to worry about GAS Consumption after the crossover.

Are you suggesting that the girl with the prelude swap out her VTEC? Ludicrous I tell you. My statement was point more along the lines of, "do with what you got and make the most of it". I don't know about you.

Also, when you to advance the crossover on a stock engine , it beings loose to power @ 4400k.

There is that power thing again, which I have stated over and over as not being my goal.

:lol :lol :lol

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
Why would use a VAFC to save gas?
I'm sorry, why not?

The crossover is usually set @ 4400k from Honda. I see no reason for Gas conscious driver to be near the crossover. No Crossover, Gas saved and no Need for a VAFC. If ur looking to save gas, #1 buy a non-vtec engine. DX/GS trims and you would not have to worry about GAS Consumption after the crossover. Also, when you to advance the crossover on a stock engine , it beings loose to power @ 4400k.

Once you put in a VTEC controller, you can start the fuel saving. Furhter more you can improve the engine response starting at 4500 RPM. You take the choice instead of the ECU making the choice. If you are running a trip and you want to save fuel you can set up the VTEC to engage at 6500 RPM and you can save a lot of fuel. On the other end if you are "Racing" the car you can set it up at 4500 and if you shift from 2nd to 3rd you will be always inside the VTEC power band. Some of the VTEC controllers can also setup the fuel injectors. But yes, with cam upgrades + more for the performance.

Again, whatever :rolleyes:

I apologize for your misunderstanding of my posts and the fact that I have stated over and over that I am not stressing its' use for power gains, but fuel economy as well. I have seen it and so have others. I tell you what, venture over to Automotive Forums and Temple of VTEC and tell them otherwise. While many of them share your opinion, many also share mine. Kind of like, "tastes great, less filling".

BTW, I thought you were out of here?

Again! I understand perfectly how a vtec controller works. But again you are failing to convince me on the whole fuel saving argument. If you taking a long trip there is no need to retard the crossover , because you will not be near the crossover. Let's just say you retard the crossover, this means that when u reach 4400k the vtec will not engage. This is where your theory goes poo! The stock cams are only made to supply power till 4400k efficiently( You losing power now ), when more power is required the secondary lobe takes over and lets more air in. Since you retarded the crossover, the vtec engine begins to lose power and it has to work harder to meet the higher rpms. So if the engine is working harder, how is that efficient? This is why Honda gave it's customers choices. SOHC NON-VTEC, DOHC NON-VTEC, SOHC-3STAGE VTEC, SOHC- VTEC-E, SOHC-VTEC & DOHC-VTEC. There enough choices for the gas conscious driver * no need for a VAFC on a stock car . A VAFC won't change your stock cam-profile, so why retard or advance? Note: The best way to tune a VAFC is to dyno Tune it. I was done last night and today is a new day. Too each his own!

[wprocomp]

this is a lovely thread,whee!!!!

vtec is ok,but it all depens on what you want...for you emmissions controlled peeps,its nice...but its nothing really revolutionary,I dont like messing with all that high tech ecu shit anyways...give me a A20 and some sidedrafts and I will be happy..

[zero.counter]

Again! I understand perfectly how a vtec controller works. But again you are failing to convince me on the whole fuel saving argument.

Stop right there. I won't and am not. It is you who began this crusade to contradict my innocent post and turn it into a pissing contest.

If you taking a long trip there is no need to retard the crossover , because you will not be near the crossover. Let's just say you retard the crossover, this means that when u reach 4400k the vtec will not engage. This is where your theory goes poo!

I am sorry, theory? You mean what I have done right? Oh well, some people never learn.

The stock cams are only made to supply power till 4400k efficiently( You losing power now ), when more power is required the secondary lobe takes over and lets more air in. Since you retarded the crossover, the vtec engine begins to lose power and it has to work harder to meet the higher rpms. So if the engine is working harder, how is that efficient?

I have a simple question for you, all theoretical discussion aside. Have you ever adjusted a VTEC engine, DOHC of course, for the sake of fuel consumption? I mean, ahve you really? If not, then you are speaking out of reading articles and posts and opinions of others.

This is why Honda gave it's customers choices. SOHC NON-VTEC, DOHC NON-VTEC, SOHC-3STAGE VTEC, SOHC- VTEC-E, SOHC-VTEC & DOHC-VTEC. There enough choices for the gas conscious driver * no need for a VAFC on a stock car .

That is if you are unhappy with its' setup. I mean, is this not why tuners tune? Because they are unsatisfied with their current setup and sometimes don't feel like swapping engines or purchasing staged ECUs and crave more?

A VAFC won't change your stock cam-profile, so why retard or advance?

I never said that it could. As for the last question, read my last several posts...


Note: The best way to tune a VAFC is to dyno Tune it.

Well, as I stated before, my argument was vague but has substance even evidence. Dyno tuning is just what its' name perceives, which helps tune the entire setup especially the VAFC. I think I learned that 5 years ago when I installed my first one and said, "duurrr, what r deez little papers with pictures and words all over them in tha box"?

I was done last night and today is a new day. Too each his own!

Stay and keep up all you want, my shift does not end until 12:00 A.M. CST anyways and I am not busy.

I enjoy the company! :lol

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
Again! I understand perfectly how a vtec controller works. But again you are failing to convince me on the whole fuel saving argument.

I have a simple question for you, all theoretical discussion aside. Have you ever adjusted a VTEC engine, DOHC of course, for the sake of fuel consumption? I mean, ahve you really? If not, then you are speaking out of reading articles and posts and opinions of others.


I enjoy the company! :lol

No offcourse not. I just own one for hell of saying I own one. YOU NEWBIE!

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by 86dxAccord
No offcourse not. I just own one for hell of saying I own one. YOU NEWBIE!
:lol That was great!


CIAO

M.

[k-roy]

This is freakin great. I love heated debates. This is why i even started this thread. Keep them coming guys.

I can't believe no one has jumped on me for mentioning I am going to put Carbureators on it.

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by kroy
This is freakin great. I love heated debates. This is why i even started this thread. Keep them coming guys.

I can't believe no one has jumped on me for mentioning I am going to put Carbureators on it.

Dual Carbs on a A20 or JDMB20a is totally doable! Now Carbs on a B-Series.. Dats Just plain tardish!

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by kroy
This is freakin great. I love heated debates. This is why i even started this thread. Keep them coming guys.

I can't believe no one has jumped on me for mentioning I am going to put Carbureators on it.
Actually bro, I am done. I am getting started with another guy on one of the 240sx forums I post on.

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
Actually bro, I am done. I am getting started with another guy on one of the 240sx forums I post on.

Got Mid-Life Crisis? :wave:

[wprocomp]

hey zero whats the stock rearend ratio in the 240?

[k-roy]

Originally posted by 86dxAccord
Dual Carbs on a A20 or JDMB20a is totally doable! Now Carbs on a B-Series.. Dats Just plain tardish!

I am putting Dual carbs on a B20 CRV motor, not the 3G.:D

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by wprocomp
hey zero whats the stock rearend ratio in the 240?
4.083:1 or something like that.

Got Mid-Life Crisis?
Hurt your feelings did I? :D I didn't mean to do so. We don't all know as much as you! :flip:

BTW, I am only 2 years older than you (at least if your birthdate posted here is correct). I just dislike misinformed people who are hard-headed like geriatric folks. :wave: thats all... :tongue:

No offense, it is all in good fun! :)

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
4.083:1 or something like that.

Got Mid-Life Crisis?
Hurt your feelings did I? :D I didn't mean to do so. We don't all know as much as you! :flip:

BTW, I am only 2 years older than you (at least if your birthdate posted here is correct). I just dislike misinformed people who are hard-headed like geriatric folks. :wave: thats all... :tongue:

No offense, it is all in good fun! :)

I know ALL! You must really dislike yourself and I don't even recall writting my B-day Info on this.

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by 86dxAccord
I know ALL! You must really dislike yourself and I don't even recall writting my B-day Info on this.

I don't, so unless you have a license to practice, don't psychoanalyze my character from just a few postings. That would be pathetic and futile. Remember, this is the internet. I may be a girl or woman or even Michael Jordan. Who freakin knows? Remember the assumption post? :wave:

By the way, even if the date may have defaulted your B-Day when you created your account here, it would not change the day to 6 for no reason. But then again, this is the internet. At least you can figure my age from there. :)

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
I don't, so unless you have a license to practice, don't psychoanalyze my character from just a few postings. That would be pathetic and futile. Remember, this is the internet. I may be a girl or woman or even Michael Jordan. Who freakin knows? Remember the assumption post? :wave:

By the way, even if the date may have defaulted your B-Day when you created your account here, it would not change the day to 6 for no reason. But then again, this is the internet. At least you can figure my age from there. :)

WTF are talking about? I was only replying to your post.


Originally posted by zero.counter
I just dislike misinformed people who are hard-headed like geriatric folks. thats all...

Hence, you must dislike yourself. I hope I don't get like you, when I get older. :wave:

[zero.counter]

Hence, you must dislike yourself.

You are right about me doctor. While we are on the subject doc, I seem to be experiencing constant mood swings and the urge to spit on people. What do you think is wrong? Do you think I am presenting signs of an Anxiety Disorder?
:lol :lol :lol

I hope I don't get like you, when I get older. :wave:

Yeah, neither do I. We need more blue collar workers to keep the economy floating so they can pay thier medical expenses and insurance so I can enjoy my big salary! :D

Damn, I never realized being mid-twenties was old. Oh well, that what the doc said! :lol

[NXRacer]

i dont know if this has been said before or not, but the CRV B20 does NOT come with VTEC. if you want vtec, you'll have to do a head swap with a b16/18 or KA head (for '03 CRV motors's and up)

[k-roy]

Originally posted by NXRacer
i dont know if this has been said before or not, but the CRV B20 does NOT come with VTEC. if you want vtec, you'll have to do a head swap with a b16/18 or KA head (for '03 CRV motors's and up)

97 and 98 had a non VTEC B20B
99-00-01 has Vtec in the B20Z

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by kroy
97 and 98 had a non VTEC B20B
99-00-01 has Vtec in the B20Z

Dude! Both Are non-vtec engines. The B20z is the newer block with a bit more torque. Still uses a non-vtec head.

[k-roy]

Damnit you are right. I was misinformed.
I got the info from a friend, Bojangles, who works at a Honda dealership. He told he to get a 99,00 or 01 motor because they have more power with VTEC added. He is a dumbass at times, thats a whole other story. I was also misinformed by a guy at a junkyard, probably because he wanted to sell me the motor. Its a good thing that the B20Z does not have VTEC, I don't want it anyways.

[BMS]

You said in your original post that VTEC is a compromise at lower RPM? I am too lazy to actually read the whole damn thread so this may have been brought up already, but VTEC is not a compromise at low RPM. The only thing that VTEC does is to extend your power band all the way to redline, rather than having it drop off after a certain RPM level again. If you think that it is a compromise because the VTEC engines make less torque, that's wrong. The reason that VTEC engines make less torque is because of the way that the engine is made, not because of the VTEC cam or anything like that. Okay, so the cam may play a role, but what I'm trying to say is that if Honda wanted to, I doubt that it would be very hard to make the VTEC engines maintain the same torque as the non-VTEC engines. I think that the reason that they let the torque slip is because there is so much more HP that there is no real need for massive torque (in the eyes of Honda).

[k-roy]

:banghead:
I give up. this is pointless. I posted this thread to have a great debate and imo it is over. I am doing to my car what I wish. If anyone does not like it they can bite my shiny metal ass.

[BMS]

I am not saying anything about your car in particular, I was kinda under the impression that in a debate thread we discuss the pros and cons of a certain topic. You brought up some cons, and I am simply trying counter your argument. There is no point in having a thread called "the great VTEC debate" if you're gonna :banghead: when someone tries to share their side of the argument.

[Coroncho80]

86dxAccord you're fucking AWSOME! :lol


For those of you that knew who this guy is or was, yall get it why I said that he is fucking awsome and funny! :lol :lol too bad he owns a slow "86 DX accord!" hahahaha


No more comments :D

[Morpheus]

i-VTEC>DOHC VTEC>3 Stage VTEC>SOHC VTEC>VTEC-E>NO VTEC

[BMS]

DOHC VTEC is better than i-VTEC, IMO.

[k-roy]

Originally posted by BMS
DOHC VTEC is better than i-VTEC, IMO. :lol

[BMS]

Yeah, I can totally see how that's funny.

[SteveDX89]

Don't worry Maurice, I know who he is. That DX is one slow ass car. :rolleyes:

I'm not trying to take any sides but if you've seen a dyno chart of a car with VTEC, everything becomes clear. The mild cam profile reaches a peak and then starts to drop off. Then the VTEC kicks in and you can see it go back up. Raising the VTEC crossover may help fuel economy but you have to remember that you're no longer in the power band for that cam profile. The engine has to work harder to produce the same results.

edit - forgot to mention. Since a VTEC engine can rev to 8000 rpm or more, you have more time between shifts. I know this doesn't matter in everyday driving but in racing apps it does. The guy without VTEC has to shift at, say, roughly 5000 rpm. By the time you shift once, he's close to pulling a second shift. Letting off the gas to shift hurts for obvious reasons.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by BMS
DOHC VTEC is better than i-VTEC, IMO.

wrong
i-VTEC is the next generation of VTEC found on the new K-series. It has VTEC and VTC (variable timing control). It is a better system.

[kicker1_solo]

yes, i-VTEC is much better, but I still love my DOHC VTEC. :D

[BMS]

Originally posted by Morpheus
wrong
i-VTEC is the next generation of VTEC found on the new K-series. It has VTEC and VTC (variable timing control). It is a better system.


You are right. I was confusing i-VTEC for VTEC-e.