OH NOOOO!!!!! I Totally Screwed This Up!!!

[it's paid for]

. . . so . . . I go to get my 10mm 12 point socket . . . I get a "good" one (SK tools?) . . . anyway, I'm thinking this is going to be a piece of cake - easy - remove 10-12 bolts, head lifts off, take it to the shop & blah, blah, blah . . . no . . . I start removing the cylinder head bolts and the first one strips out . . . now what? I've tried holding down really hard with my left hand while my right hand tries to loosen it . . . nope . . . doesn't work - in fact, I think it makes the bolt head worse . . . I am such an idiot . . . HELP! (sorry - photo image is poor)

http://www.bloomyourbusiness.com/honda/removing_head_boo_boo_07.jpg

. . . also, the Haynes manual says to remove this thing (oil pump shaft?) after removing the head . . . that can't be possible - right?

http://www.bloomyourbusiness.com/honda/removing_head_boo_boo_11.jpg

How do I remove it?

Thanks,



IPF

[POS carb]

#1 go to sears, tell them you have a stripped bolt and you need a removal tool, they have those.

#2 I dunno if there isn't enough clearance there for the socket then I'm guessing that part in the center of the gear is a pin that holds it in, seee if you can remove that. I'vew never done the oil pump so I dunno.

[it's paid for]

. . . I was prying on it and heard & felt it snap . . . as I continued trying to remove it, then it got stripped . . . I'm hoping it broke loose at least a little bit . . . I'm guessing this head hasn't been off since the Japanese folks put it on over 20 years ago . . .

. . . I tried to remove the opposite ended/sided bolt - no problem . . . dang, these things are on tight . . . I'm using my breaker bar (isn't that the long handled thing?) . . . is it okay to go ahead and loosen all of them except the first one?

. . . will the auto parts store have a bolt removal tool? I'll call 'em . . . they think I'm an idiot . . .

. . . I am . . . but at least I'm trying . . .

[it's paid for]

. . . is there such a thing as a 12 point 10mm brake wrench? If so, it'd be deep enough to get to this bolt . . . my wrench seems to fit snug onto the bolt but I only have . . . maybe an inch to try to loosen it . . .

[NXRacer]

id suggest getting one of those handy dandy bolt removal tools by craftsman. Its a much better option then an easy out because it grabs the outside of the whole bolt and grabs it. the harder you try to turn it the tighter it grabs.

For all those bolts, i'd suggest you use 6 point sockets instead of 12. You'll have less slippage and more torque.

[Justin86]

It seems like three is a lot of stuff to romove the head. I wish I had a 2g around here that I could look at to give you more detailed help, cause on the 3G romoveing the head is a peice of cake. As for haing to romove the oil pump shaft, I think that is really weird. :confused:
As NX said you should allways have a 6 sided sockets. There is only a few bolt where you have to use the 10 side sockets and those allways have the habbit of stripping bolt heads.

[it's paid for]

id suggest getting one of those handy dandy bolt removal tools by craftsman.
I just got back from the auto parts store with one . . . it's way too big and won't fit inside the top of the head . . . it won't fit any of the bolts . . . it was $10.50 . . . thought it'd work . . . nope . . . what next?


. . . you should allways have a 6 sided sockets. There is only a few bolt where you have to use the 10 side sockets and those allways have the habbit of stripping bolt heads.
Yeah . . . almost all of my sockets are for six point bolts . . . the bolts holding on the head of my 2G are 12 point 10mm bolts . . . and I have no way of changing them out until I remove them first . . . I 'm clueless again . . . lost again . . . and feeling stupid again . . . wishing I hadn't ever started this project again . . . hating my car again . . .

. . . the guy at the auto parts store said the head bolts can really be tough to remove as they are installed with high torque and then with age and heat & cold he said they can really, really be difficult to remove . . .

. . . if I ever get this head off . . . and I might not . . . should I replace the head bolts with six sided heads instead of using the stock, 12 point bolts?

Thanks,

IPF

[NXRacer]

if you can find replacement head bolts that are 6 sided go with it. It'll be easier if you ever do it again, but with as much trouble as you're having with this thing i bet you wont wanna do it again! :D

If that tool wont get in there, you might have to easy out it, which can give you as much or more trouble as you've been having already. I'd call around to machine shops that do motor rebuilds and see if you can get an idea about how to do it. Most shops are happy to give pointers. Worse case scenario is you'll have to take it to a machine shop.

[Justin86]

I wonder if the 3G head bolts will fit on the 2G??? I have extra.

[Gregg86DX]

One thing I have done to get really stripped bolts out is to find the next smaller size 12pt socket (standard or metric) and "pound" it onto the bolt head. This can be a one-way trip and you may sacrifice the socket to do it. I've had to use a dremel to grind some flat spots on the side of the bolt head to give the socket new places to grab. Then, if you have access to an impact wrench, use it! Go find an electric one if you have to.

Good luck,

Gregg

[1988starter]

Originally posted by Gregg86DX
One thing I have done to get really stripped bolts out is to find the next smaller size 12pt socket (standard or metric) and "pound" it onto the bolt head. This can be a one-way trip and you may sacrifice the socket to do it. I've had to use a dremel to grind some flat spots on the side of the bolt head to give the socket new places to grab. Then, if you have access to an impact wrench, use it! Go find an electric one if you have to.

Good luck,

Gregg

I did that to get the socket off I heated it with my heat gun and friend and I pulled on both sides

[it's paid for]

. . . okay . . . this might just be a new record for the most idiotic, the most stupid, the most un-gifted, mechanically disadvantaged 3geez member yet . . .

. . . after "stripping" another bolt . . . I accidently felt something irregular with the socket . . . looked at it closely (my vision up close is really bad - way overdue for bifocals) and found this:

http://www.bloomyourbusiness.com/honda/broken_10mm_12pt_socket_01.jpg

. . . so . . . the bolt head isn't "stripped" but the socket is toast and expands and clicks around the head of the bolts . . . which gave me the impression the head was stripped . . . the bolts - actually, the entire valve area - are well covered with a sort of oil-burned-on varnish which is black and makes it difficult to see . . . plus, my eyes are very bad . . . plus . . . I'm new at this sort of thing . . .

. . . so . . . I thought I'd stripped two more bolt heads . . . nope . . . none of them are stripped . . . it's just a broken socket . . .

. . . I'll go ahead & say it for you . . . newbies are sooooo stupid . . .

. . . I'm going to go to Sears and get a 1/2" drive 10mm 12pt socket tomorrow . . . maybe I'll get two as it's a 27 mile drive . . . they have six in stock and at only $5 ea, it seems like an extra one would be a worthy investment . . .

. . . sorry to cause an unnecessary fuss . . . those head bolts are much thougher than that . . . stupid me . . . the head will be in the shop tomorrow . . .

[it's paid for]

. . . btw . . . I still wanna know if I'm supposed to take out the oil pump shaft first . . . and, if so, are there any special rules to follow? . . . the Haynes manual is totally lacking in this respect . . .

. . . thanks,

IPF

[Gregg86DX]

I'll take stupid over screwed!

Unless you mean THAT kind of screwed.

err, nevermind...

Glad to hear it's working out for you!

[rocky2]

You could take that broken bolt off after you lift head over it. Then get it with a pipe wrench. But it does look like that gear for oil pump shaft was supposed to come off 1st.(no room).

[it's paid for]

. . . HELP!!! . . .

. . . I've taken out every bolt except the one that's stripped . . . I went by the machine shop today and spoke to the guy who's gonna do the valve job . . . couldn't be more impressed . . . he knew it was an EK1 & blah, blah, blah . . . super nice guy . . . clean shop . . . maybe 6 employees . . . gorgeous pieces of metal all over the place . . .

. . . I'm driving to Kentucky this Sunday (wife's car) and I'll be probably be moving there in 11 days . . . I must have this car done by then . . .

. . . one bolt and it'll be all over . . . I've tried everything except the dremel-tool cuts . . . my budget is getting squeezed out fast - I can't afford to buy another tool . . . I have no idea where my Dremel tool is . . . somewhere in the basement . . . in some box, somewhere . . .

. . . does anyone else make that Snap-On bolt extractor tool? I have no idea how to get one . . .

. . . who me? panic?

Heck yeah!

[Vinny]

I'm telling ya slick, go to sears and get a bolt out extraction set, If your going to be doing this kinda crap you need decent tool. The stuff they sell at most aouto part stores are crap, as you've found out already. I used a bolt out extrator on my downpipe on an amlost totally rounded out nut. Just tap it on with a hammer and watch it grip down and break loose. Do whatever ya gotta at this point I'd guess but just remember if you massacre that bolt with a dremmel you still have top get the rest of it out somehow and if you've never drilled a bolt and used an easy out its not gonna be pretty

[it's paid for]

. . . I think I might be able to remove it if I can remove this valve-spring thing and get the socket down onto the bolt head better - right now, I'm using a 1/2" 10mm 12pt socket and the diameter of the socket interferes with the valve spring . . .

. . . before I go to Sears for an extraction tool kit . . . I'd like to try removing the valve spring but I have an idea it's going to be very bad news if I try - like it'll pop out really fast and hit me in the eye or something . . .

. . . can I do this?

Thanks,

IPF

http://www.bloomyourbusiness.com/honda/extracting_bolt_03.jpg

[it's paid for]

. . . BTW . . . I bought an extractor yesterday but it wouldn't fit down into the area . . . it was the type that grips the stripped bolt head and the tighter you turn, the tighter it grips . . . very cool tool indeed, but it didn't fit in that little area around the bolt head . . . not even close . . . so, I took it back . . .

. . . I might try also getting a Sears 10mm 12pt 3/8 drive socket . . . perhaps that'll give me the clearance AND the durability I need . . . see . . . I'm guessing I can use the threads at the bottom of the bolt head . . .

. . . I'm so close . . . this is totally frustrating . . .

. . . and yeah, I've used an easy-out before but I don't think it would help much in this situation as the bolt is in there so tight . . . perhaps I'm wrong . . .

. . . thanks . . .

[Gregg86DX]

To remove the valve spring, you need a tool called an "on the car valve spring compressor". NAPA sells one. I can get a picture (and maybe the part number) for mine if you need it.

Gregg

[it's paid for]

. . . I'm just sick . . . I have no idea what to try next . . . I've bought two extractors - neither worked . . . I've tried pounding a 3/8" socket on top of the 10mm . . . that seemed like it was going to work . . . but didn't . . . the head of this one single bolt holding me up looks like a cylinder . . . the top is all knarley & chewed up as I've drilled, punched and chisled it to death . . . I've spent two days and over $45 in parts to get this one last bolt off . . . I'm going crazy and running out of time, money and patience . . .

HELP!!!

I am so far behind on this project . . . I'll never have my car finished in time to start work on the 15th . . . being poor just simply sucks and that's all there is to it . . . trying to do something with crappy tools and not knowing how to do something right just sucks too . . .


. . . I wish I'd never have bought that pice of crap car . . .

[4sillypwr]

Man if I ever express a wish to buy a 2g accord someone slap me. This thing sounds like it sucks. You need to make a friend on here that lives close and will help you. How long have you been working on this?

-David

[it's paid for]

This thing sounds like it sucks.
That's only partly true . . . the main problem is the total idiot who's working . . . trying to work on it . . . he doesn't have enough useful experience doing stuff like this and his tools are crappy . . . in fact, that's the reason why this latest problem occurred . . . when the socket snapped, it was assumed the bolt was breaking loose (never occurred to the "mechanic" that the socket had just broken instead of the bolt coming loose) and with continued effort to loosen the bolt using the (unknowingly broken) socket, the head of that bolt became stripped . . .

. . . the car is okay . . . sure, maybe not as easy to work on as other . . . but, honestly, this is a typical case of fools using tools . . .

. . . I guess I don't hate the car as much as I hate my predicament . . . I'm paying a welder to come over and weld a stud onto the head of this bolt . . . or a socket . . . I've already spent two days on this project and spending another $70 to fix it seems reasonable . . . at this point . . .

. . . remember - friends don't let friends like me work on cars . . .

[it's paid for]

. . . okay . . . here goes the welder . . .

http://www.bloomyourbusiness.com/honda/extracting_bolt_06.jpg

. . . then it looked like this . . .


http://www.bloomyourbusiness.com/honda/extracting_bolt_07.jpg

. . .

. . . it was still a tough bolt to extract . . . but it's out and the head is coming off . . . what an ugly, ugly set of threads at the bottom of this bolt, eh?

http://www.bloomyourbusiness.com/honda/extracting_bolt_09.jpg

. . . now, I'm going to try to remove the head (w/the intake & exhaust manifold attached) without breaking my back . . .

. . . thanks everyone . . . I'll keep you posted how the machine work goes . . .

. . . the welder was going to charge me $35 - total . . . I gave him $40 . . . that's the BEST $40 I've ever spent . . .

[it's paid for]

. . . I was surprised to see the two cylinder walls looking as well as they do . . . just rubbing my (clean) finger down the cylinder wall, I don't feel any nasty groove . . . if you look close at the cylinder walls, you can see the honing (?) "scratches" . . . whatever that's called, I don't know . . .

http://www.bloomyourbusiness.com/honda/031205_001.jpg

. . . I know nothing about valves . . . can anyone look at this photo & tell me what's going on? Thanks, IPF

http://www.bloomyourbusiness.com/honda/031205_002.jpg

[A20A1]

Make sure you get the C-Clamp Valve compressor... other vavle compressors don't work well with hondas small valve springs.

WTF? Is that some CVCC (CCV??)? Thing?
Or did the plugs get mashed. :D hehe
Well the salt and pepper shaker valves I know nothing about.

[A20A1]

Wait a second, you didn't remove the Cam? How come all your valves are closed? or did you loosen the nuts on the rocker arm?

[NXRacer]

glad to hear you finally got it done! Sure, you may be doing things the hard way, but you have way more patience and perseverence then anybody i've seen. I'm sure that once this is finished you'll be really satisfied with your work. Welding that nut onto that bolt is an ingenious idea! I would have probably done it the hard way and tried drilling the fucker out.

that head bolt looks like its been cross threaded. you might have a problem getting in back in.

one thing i can understand is why dont the plugs go into the combustion chamber??? :huh:

[A20A1]

yeah make sure the threads on the inside of the head are good too. I would toss that bolt out and get a new one.

[it's paid for]

. . . why dont the plugs go into the combustion chamber???
That was explained to me by one of the guys in the machine shop . . . something about burning more exhaust gasses . . . I dunno . . . two exhaust valves . . . whatever . . .


Welding that nut onto that bolt is an ingenious idea!
Yes - I wish I could remember who gave me that idea - it wasn't my idea but it sure worked . . . that head bolt with the welded-on nut and bolt is a keeper . . .

. . . actually, one of my hobbies is web design and all this information - with photos - is going onto a web site someday . . . it's my hope that others can learn from my stupidity . . . hopefully, I can encourage someone else to do the same thing to their car . . .


. . . once this is finished you'll be really satisfied with your work . . .
Yeah - I'll admit - if I ever get to that point where it actually runs, I'll be one happy old man . . . brakes, suspension and of course 16" rims w/low profile tires are on the agenda . . . now that I have a job . . . who knows how much I'll do to this thing . . . I still like the idea of heavy glossy black paint job w/orange, red & yellow flames . . . I was told 17's don't work well on a 2G . . . too big?

. . . thanks & I'll keep everyone posted on my progress . . . btw, besides this list, what else should I do with the head off:
water pump
timing belt
oil pan gasket (hopefully, I'll have time & $ for this)
all head gaskets, of course
tune up kit w/distributor cap, s/p wires, air filter, blah, blah, blah
new alternator (this went bad before I started, so a refurb is alread on the shelf)



. . . or did you loosen the nuts on the rocker arm? Yeah, I did loosen the nuts on the rocker arm - long story - I don't think it was necessary . . . I did remove the distributor thing at the end of the head (on the #4 cylinder side) . . .


. . . question . . . how do I clean up all the nasty, oily, filthy parts that aren't going to the machine shop? I have Simple Green and Zep's Citrus degreaser - both work well, but the Zep smells better.

Thanks,

IPF

[NXRacer]

both of those products should work very well in cleaning up the oil. A machine shop would probably dunk it in a solvent tank to clean it up but you have to be very careful to get all the solvent off as it tends to eat oil (duh) and if its not all out of the internals of the engine you'll have problems. Simple green works wonders on stuff like that. Between the 2 it should look very nice and clean.