B20A Accord dynoed!

[foobari]

I just had my Accord dynoed yesterday (euro spec B20A2 engine, stock 138hp). I have only upgraded the intake with a K&N connected directly to the throttle body. Otherwise, completely stock... I was pretty pleased with the results! :cool:

Power: 144hp @ 6100rpm (124hp at the wheels)
Torque: 183Nm @ 5000rpm


http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/412000-412999/412806_40_full.jpg
Ahhm... notice the Civic Type-R sitting next to my 3g!

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/412000-412999/412806_41_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/412000-412999/412806_42_full.jpg

There's also a short video clip of one run, listen to that old-timer scream up to the rev limiter (7000rpm)!

http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/foobari_mtv3/dyno_run.mpg

[k-roy]

Thank you. I have been searching for a B20A dyno chart for a while.

Damn you! We do not get the Type R here in the states. We have to settle for the Si with 160hp.

I did the calculations and the torque in standard units is 135.42 ft/lbs.

[Dibbs]

Foobari, what's that 120KW rating labeled Pmin above the 107.4KW rating that you based your HP on?

<EDIT>
My bad Kroy! I used 187 instead of 183.7 :stupid: You're right.

[foobari]

Originally posted by Dibbs
Foobari, what's that 120KW rating labeled Pmin above the 107.4KW rating that you based your HP on? The 120kW had something to do with scaling the dyno to different power areas I think. I guess it's a little bit different scenario when you are dynoing some 600hp beast compared to a humble 3g. :D But like I said, I'm not sure...

[Dibbs]

oh....I get it. Thanks!

[Gregg86DX]

That's good info! Now let's get that thing up to JDM specs and do it again! :cool:

Gregg

[88LXi68]

Those arent bad numbers considering the Euro B20 is rated at 138Hp at the crank

[thegreatdane]

Hmm, that torque is pretty high compared to stock. 14Nm extra from putting on a filter, is pretty good!!

[3rd GEN]

wow.. thats pretty good.. now i know what to expect cuz thats gonna be my motor! muhahaha

[foobari]

Originally posted by kroy
Damn you! We do not get the Type R here in the states. We have to settle for the Si with 160hp.
I feel sorry for you guys... the Civic Type R is a fun car!

(As shown below, you can pretty much "feel" the car through my expression)

http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/foobari_mtv3/typer.jpg

[foobari]

Originally posted by Gregg86DX
That's good info! Now let's get that thing up to JDM specs and do it again! :cool:
Man, I hear you! :crying:

I've been trying to figure out the exact differencies between JDM B20A and euro B20A2, but haven't come up with anything concrete yet. I believe the cams are a little bit different, some slight difference in compression ratio, and maybe the ECU also is different. And to mix things up even further, the 3g Prelude is equipped with pretty much the same B20A engine in Europe (the gold top B20A, specified at "only" 150hp). Phew... :confused:

Hmmm... anyway, I guess I'll be upgrading the exhaust next to break the 150hp barrier, then maybe throw in the adjustable cam gears and small additional tweaks here and there. Then I could have the cylinder head done by a friend quite cheap to flow better, and while at it, shave millimeter or so from the head to increase the compression a bit. With all that, I'm dissapointed if I'm not in the JDM 160hp area. What do you guys think, does this sound reasonable?

[A20A1]

:lol

[foobari]

Originally posted by thegreatdane
Hmm, that torque is pretty high compared to stock. 14Nm extra from putting on a filter, is pretty good!!
Yeah I think so too! But on the other hand, if you take a look at the stock intake piping (which is a terrible mess I might add), I feel +14Nm torque and +6hp is very understandable with a short ram K&N setup. It's such a shame I don't have dyno results before the intake... then we would have some real facts.

[hkplayer]

Man, thats one smooth sound from the engine...I love it! I dont think my a20 will ever hit 7000, nor even 5000 - damn auto. Thanks for the post and info.

[foobari]

Originally posted by hkplayer
Man, thats one smooth sound from the engine...I love it!
Thanks! Such a shame the sound on the clip is *nothing* like it was in real life! If you look at the video closely enough you can see that's me in the background taking some scared steps away from the roar and rumble when the pedal hits the metal. :D

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by kroy

Damn you! We do not get the Type R here in the states. We have to settle for the Si with 160hp.



That's not a big deal, we get the RSX type-S. A much better foundation for tuning since it does not have the civic's high center of gravity, which places a cap on the civics ability to compeat because you can only go so far in tuning around that high center of gravity suspension wise.

[NXRacer]

Originally posted by foobari
I've been trying to figure out the exact differencies between JDM B20A and euro B20A2, but haven't come up with anything concrete yet. I believe the cams are a little bit different, some slight difference in compression ratio, and maybe the ECU also is different. And to mix things up even further, the 3g Prelude is equipped with pretty much the same B20A engine in Europe (the gold top B20A, specified at "only" 150hp). Phew... :confused:

Hmmm... anyway, I guess I'll be upgrading the exhaust next to break the 150hp barrier, then maybe throw in the adjustable cam gears and small additional tweaks here and there. Then I could have the cylinder head done by a friend quite cheap to flow better, and while at it, shave millimeter or so from the head to increase the compression a bit. With all that, I'm dissapointed if I'm not in the JDM 160hp area. What do you guys think, does this sound reasonable?
i'd try getting a JDM ECU and do all that stuff....

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Jims 86LXI HB
That's not a big deal, we get the RSX type-S. A much better foundation for tuning since it does not have the civic's high center of gravity, which places a cap on the civics ability to compeat because you can only go so far in tuning around that high center of gravity suspension wise.

meh
I doubt the center of gravity is that high. Its not where the weight looks like it is, its where the weigh actually is.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by Morpheus
meh
I doubt the center of gravity is that high. Its not where the weight looks like it is, its where the weigh actually is.

And its higher in the civic vs the RSX. Grassrootsmotorsports mag tried in vain to make a 03 civic their track car, but they ran into a wall concerning how far they were able to go with the car because of its high center of gravity. Rather frustrating to have a 89 DX civic with less power out run you on the same course.

[foobari]

Originally posted by thegreatdane
Hmm, that torque is pretty high compared to stock. 14Nm extra from putting on a filter, is pretty good!!
thegreatdane, where did you get the stock tq numbers?

At least for what I've seen, the B20A2 Accord has stock ratings of 137hp (or 138) @ 6000rpm and 173Nm @5000rpm (http://www.pauldesign.ru/honda/about.html) From those numbers the increase with the K&N intake would be +7hp and +10Nm. Sounds reasonable.

Edit: +10.7 Nm to be exact. :tongue:

Ah, I can't wait... I'm having the exhaust updated soon! Hoping to find at least +5hp... :devil:

[Justin86]

Man just wait until you really start add some more mods to that engine.

[thegreatdane]

Originally posted by foobari
thegreatdane, where did you get the stock tq numbers?

At least for what I've seen, the B20A2 Accord has stock ratings of 137hp (or 138) @ 6000rpm and 173Nm @5000rpm (http://www.pauldesign.ru/honda/about.html) From those numbers the increase with the K&N intake would be +7hp and +10Nm. Sounds reasonable.

Edit: +10.7 Nm to be exact. :tongue:

Ah, I can't wait... I'm having the exhaust updated soon! Hoping to find at least +5hp... :devil:

In all the old magazines from the 80's it's listed at 138HP and 169Nm. Maybe it's on the net somewhere too?? Don't remember...
137 and 173 is the three same numbers, maybe it's a typo..?

EDIT: oops, sorry i was thinking of the A20A4 torque numbers. Yours might be correct then, because i cant remember the right numbers now that i got it mixed up :stick:

[foobari]

I've got some finnish car magazines from the late 80's, they state the B20A2 Accord to be 138hp@6000rpm and 170Nm@5000rpm. Ah, who cares... ;)

[thegreatdane]

We do :tongue: I just read someones profile with a B20A2, and it said that it was 173Nm too.

[smufguy]

this is one kick ass dyno. man....... i wish i could get my car there and dyno it since its getting pretty much finished.

I have some new respect for the B20 now. Trust me, i never knew this shit was worth it all. The torque and the hp is hot, but only thing i cant understand is the hp curve on the dyno chart looks funny cause it bumps up then goes down and then bumps up again.

[foobari]

Originally posted by smufguy
this is one kick ass dyno. man....... i wish i could get my car there and dyno it since its getting pretty much finished.
Thanks man! :) Waiting to see your dynos!


The torque and the hp is hot, but only thing i cant understand is the hp curve on the dyno chart looks funny cause it bumps up then goes down and then bumps up again.
Yeah I was thinking about the same thing about tq curve and I've been asking around about it. Basicly what I've heard is that the tq curve looks just like it usually looks on older cars. There's no fancy engine management (and there is no cat or other pollution systems in my car, so there's not even an o2-sensor!) so it's difficult to get the tq curve to be "not bumpy". The two tq peaks are probably caused by the resonancies in the intake and exhaust, dunno which is which but basicly that's the story.

Another possible cause could be that the engine is running too lean or too rich in the tq drop area between 3000-5000rpm. I've been thinking of adding an o2-sensor and building a A/F meter (you can do it yourself with just $10 and soldering iron!) to see how the mixtures are.

Any other ideas?

[foobari]

Originally posted by foobari
Hmmm... anyway, I guess I'll be upgrading the exhaust next to break the 150hp barrier
Done!

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/412000-412999/412806_53_full.jpg

Original stock muffler:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/412000-412999/412806_51_full.jpg

New muffler welded on:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/412000-412999/412806_52_full.jpg

And the tips attached:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/412000-412999/412806_49_full.jpg

Nice, looks a lot like the stock twin tips. And it doesn't sound bad either! ;)
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/412000-412999/412806_50_full.jpg

[foobari]

.

[smufguy]

thats a really nice looking exhaust. You should get a full 2.25" pipe with headers and you will be suprised how much ur hp and ur torque curves jump up. That is a really nice looking exhaust man. Awsome.

[foobari]

Anybody tested the StreetDyno-software? Check it out: http://www.tweecer.com/StreetDyno/index.html

I've been playing around with it a couple of days now, and I can say I'm really impressed. I just soldered a resistor and a trimmer to make a voltage divider, connected it to the coil, attached a laptop and went out to make a couple of WOT runs 2000-7000rpm on 3rd gear (note: you can't use the StreetDyno if you have auto, you gotta have stick!). And here are the results...


Here's the signal output from the coil I got after some playing around. Very nice and clean.
http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/foobari_mtv3/cooledit_prntscrn.jpg


Here I am trying out the parameters. I really suggest you have a valid real dyno-slip in your hand when you're calibrating this software. Otherwise you can easily get results which are 100hp too big or small!
http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/foobari_mtv3/streetdyno_prntscrn.jpg


And finally, the StreetDyno results overlayed with the real dyno slips. I'm impressed! I'm getting a little bit higher max power (112kW vs. 108kW) since I have updated my exhaust and removed the power steering for now. I guess the up-down zig-zag in the 5000-7000rpm area is due to the fact that I really had trouble finding the grip in there (the roads over here are a bit icy at the moment)
http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/foobari_mtv3/power_graph_overlay.jpg


Is this cool or what?!?! Instant DIY-dyno for free, use it when you like, no hassle, see instantly if any mods you did do you good or not. I love it!

[smufguy]

Thats awsome dude. I never knew such a software existed. So it basically uses the electircal output to calculate the power? LIke the G-Tech pro?

[foobari]

Thats awsome dude. I never knew such a software existed. So it basically uses the electircal output to calculate the power? LIke the G-Tech pro?
Jep, basicly the only hard input from the car are the pulses from the coil. From that, the sw can calculate the exact rpms at each moment. Then, you must input the gear ratios, car weight, drag coefficent etc. After that, it's only mathematics, F=ma etc. ;)

Like I said, you better have some valid info of your car's real hp&tq when you're calibrating the software, otherwise the results are almost sure to be too big/small. But anyhow, even in that case, you can see if you are adding hp or losing hp with your mods.

I'm gonna do a permanent install of the voltage divider circuit and place it into the glove box. Then when ever I want to do a dyno run, I just grab my laptop with me into the car, go do a WOT run, and after a couple of seconds I'm holding a new dyno-slip! :cool2:

[foobari]

Thank you. I have been searching for a B20A dyno chart for a while.
I just got this stock B20A1 dyno (138hp) today from a finnish Honda site!
http://www.tpu.fi/~k2vvalim/20i16Power-torque.jpg


And a nice shot of the "monster" itself! :)
http://www.tpu.fi/~k2vvalim/b20a.jpeg

[smufguy]

can u tell us how u actually did it? LIke what are the things you used for calibrating the input signals? Like which coil u used for getting the data signal from and how you did it all. Cause me and my friend are building a computer for our cars, So if you can tell me how to do it, it would be greatly appriciated. Thanks man.

[foobari]

It's actually real simple. I just made this voltage divider circuit shown somewhere in the StreetDyno pages:

http://www.tweecer.com/StreetDyno/vdivide2.gif

I connected that to the Accord stock coil (the negative side, the same point you would connect an aftermarket tachometer). Then I soldered a standard 3.5mm audio jack to the Vout and Gnd out pins and connected that to my laptop's "Audio in" -connector.

That's all! Then you need to have some kind of audio software, I used the CoolEdit2000 which I have, but any audio software with just basic capabilities will do, e.g. Goldwave is good and it should be free. You just adjust the trimmer in the voltage divider until you get a nice clean signal like shown in my post above. Then you're all set!

Next, you find a flat road and use the smallest gear possible that you can do a WOT acceleration without slipping the tires, usually 2nd. You start recording the audio with your laptop driving slowly around 1500rpm and then just hit it and accelerate as fast as you can until you hit the rev limiter. Then just stop the recording and go home.

Now, with your audio software you need to find the acceleration part from your audio file and save it (run_name.wav). Then you start the StreetDyno software, put all the parameters in and open the wav-file you created. Then just hit the button and the StreetDyno will do all the rest and give you your hp & tq curves.

By calibrating the software I meant tweaking with the different values which I didn't know for a fact, like drag coefficent and the frontal area. I made small adjustments to get the hp & tq curves match to the real hp & tq values I got from a real dyno. Now that I've done all that, there's no need to calibrate it again, I just go out and do a full acceleration in the same spot, trim the wav-file, and let the StreetDyno do it's thing.

It's a bit tricky at first, especially the "Trigger up %", "Trigger down %" and "Gate delay ms" values, I just had to play around and find suitable ones for my setup (coil + voltage divider). Don't get frustated if you don't get it right the first time, you'll get the hang of it and then it's just a piece of cake!

If you have any more questions, just go ahead, I'll try to answer!

Edit: And here's some more instructions: http://www.tweecer.com/StreetDyno/help.html

[foobari]

Cause me and my friend are building a computer for our cars
I've been also thinking about attaching a lcd and laptop to my car. It would be great, what have you thought about using the computer for? I guess the normal mp3, maps+navigation, etc. would be nice, and now of course the StreetDyno. It would also be cool to have as many inputs from the car itself as possible to monitor, like different temps, pressures, speed, rpms, etc.

[McNick]

2 foobari
Have you seen http://www.pgmfi.org ?
IMHO many interesting ideas!

[smufguy]

I've been also thinking about attaching a lcd and laptop to my car. It would be great, what have you thought about using the computer for? I guess the normal mp3, maps+navigation, etc. would be nice, and now of course the StreetDyno. It would also be cool to have as many inputs from the car itself as possible to monitor, like different temps, pressures, speed, rpms, etc.

Yeah its getting navigation and the system is gonna run off of that. Im getting a 7.2" LCD monitor for it and nothing fancy. It hookes on a goose neck and bolts right on the heater core frame. Im lacking major funds now so this project has been postponed and my friend is broke after he got the STI and the all season tires and rims. So we pushed it back.

Im trying to get this program of yours to work and hopefully have a mini dyno on my car like you mentioned. Thats all the computer is gonna be used for and of course Initial D movies are gonna be there :D. And maybe some other movies too but depends on it. Im getting a Sub sometime along with the Computer parts so it all goes in perfect.

Yeah, its fun to do. :D

[foobari]

2 foobari
Have you seen http://www.pgmfi.org ?
IMHO many interesting ideas!
Thanks for the link, lots of cool stuff!