Project , Gm Ecm Kit / Turbo Kit

[bobafett]

BOO YAH~!

im pumped!....

sean i have been waiting for those damn pics for a long time! :)
looks prettier than i thought for a "custom" turbo kit :D

[smufguy]

man.......... am i looking at a cast irom header???? This is giving me chills dude. brrrrrr. i wish i have that kinda money to do it :( who knows, maybe sometime in the future. But gotta love a turbo set up that kicks ass and more likely, its been tested baby!!!!! whoooooohooooooooo. Sean, you go dude. :D

[Dibbs]

All numbers w/ stock internals, right?

[bobafett]

yes

[adams86lxi]

looks awesome!!! good work!!:D

[4sillypwr]

ok i'm a newbie here. so you repin the accord/prelude harness to plug into the gm ecm? then you have to swap the dist internals somehow? i am going to turbo my 87 prelude this winter. so then after you get it all swpped in you have to chip the gm ecm to run teh correct timing and fuel for the a20 right? what program do you use to do this? feel free to flame me but i'm am a little computer illetierate

[4sillypwr]

more details more details and track times. hey how much do you sell you gm ecm kit for?

[pric]

Originally posted by Sean
no charg air cooling yet but water injection is the onyl way to go with the limited space in there. full run down

My ecm kit with DIS

my own t manifold internally its got anti reversion baffling. custom mandrel 2.5 inch exhuast

turbo specs

chrysler t03 garret ( unique flange) .42 comparessor .48 a/r turbine.

running 6 psi of boost.

27pph injectors.
no intercooler and running 13.6 in the quarter ( at least thats what its supposed to run)

stock motor with 168k on clock. 1 month of testing and tunning. fix all the short comming of the stock accord.

im running a ram PG 6 puck 98630 clutch due to the stock clutch breaking into small parts.

anyways that enough for today i hope the better pics really highlight everything going on there.

Have you run it at the track? Are you running the stock cam? From reading your post it's not clear that you have run those times. Have you dyno tuned this set up yet? If you have run it at the track what all was done to the accord like stripped, drag slicks, PS, AC, spare tire, jack were these things on or off the car?

Just my $.02, but with the set up you are showing I would be willing to bet you are putting out 170 HP to the wheels and I don't see that breaking 14 flat. However, I could be wrong.

[88' Accord Ltd]

Read Seans thread in Racing Stories, it explains all that pric....

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22674


EDIT: most of it lol

[pric]

Originally posted by 88' Accord Ltd
Read Seans thread in Racing Stories, it explains all that pric....

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22674


EDIT: most of it lol

Aw I see now thanks.

Sean if you don't mind answering the rest of my questions please?

[A20A1]

Originally posted by 2old_honda
wait a second. you are only running 6lbs? it is that fast at only 6lbs? :eek:

Sure only 6lbs, but the compression ratio is still stock, right?

[88' Accord Ltd]

Yeah hes running a stock carbed a20 engine with that set-up.

[NXRacer]

hey sean, where ya at anyway? If you're anywhere closes to the northern OR area, i can probably hook ya up with CHEAP dyno runs and parts........i dont remember seeing where you're location is.........

[89accordlxi]

Originally posted by Sean
ill be selling kits to do everything you see there. start really looking at that setup l;ike where the plug wires go etc.

Where exactly do the plug wires go? Did you relocate the dist. or something? Very Strange!!!!!!

[NXRacer]

its called DIS. Distributorless Ignition System. Read up on all his threads he's posted about the project and you'll start to understand. It took me a few times of reading through all of them to understand whats going on. Pretty sweet! MANY MANY hours of blood sweat and tears went into this project.

all must :bow: to Sean. :D

[A20A1]

No his is a distributorless ignition... and i think he's running idividual coils. :D

edit> doh... NX beat me. Anyways instead of using the cam rotation to trigger the spark mechanicaly it uses the crank rotation with an electronic sensor.

[Sean]

better pics comming today. i will have mpegs from the track on thursday. ive got the wastegate set at 8psi to run that fast.im gonna get a boost gauge to verify what my datalogs are showing. im shifting at 6700rpm.im gonna see if i can get a pull the day after labor day.

[NXRacer]

where are u from sean? I got MAD connections to a GOOD dyno ($50 for 3 runs, probably cheaper for me and my customers) and conections to good stuff at (i think) cheap prices. I wanna help with this as much as i can with my limited funds. Blowoff comming from a 3g makes me cream..... :D

[89AccordLvr]

do you have a blow off valve installed ... also what other turbos can you manifold take other then the crysler one ur using

[Sean]

my manifold can fit either the mitsu ( read super small) chrysler turbo. the chrysler garret to3 .42 compr .48 turbine. or any other T#. the issue is space and how much ther is of it. if you wanted to run a different t3 it wouldnt be hard all you would have to do is redrill the mounting hole( the crhyslers have it offset outward) but any fit up problems would be your own.

[NXRacer]

how reliable are the chrysler turbos? Whats the average useage on a used chrystler turbo?

Are the turbo's you're using the standard 4bolt rectangular flange?

[Sean]

im trying not to get fustrated but ive answered quiet a few of these question twice no. no the chrysler does not use the stanard t3 squre flang. on hole is moved outwards. chrysler turbos are very reliable. mine has well over 100k on it and it spools up like new. the reason they last so long is becuase they are and carefully read this WATER COOLD BEARING HOUSING.

i usually get known good turbos from running cars for around $100. i get unknown quality turbos from $25-50 dollars. biggest thing is to make sure play is reasoanble. look for oil in the ehuast housing. and look for oil int eh compressor housing. make sure it spins freely. but it will have a bit of drag with no oil in it.

anyways i gotta alot of shit to do.

[hondaman87]

where is that dis from ?

[Sean]

the DIS is from a chevy cavalier.

[MoonScryer]

Explanation below.

http://www.moonscryer.org/accord/sean/label1.jpg

http://www.moonscryer.org/accord/sean/label2.jpg

See further pics:

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22743

[pimp86LX]

This is good for the newbies who arn't aware of Sean's amazing work.

Also note that the ECM has been tinkered with. I can't remember exactly what he did, but i think he used a 4-banger holden ECM-BIN to start with then tinkered added values for boost? ANd he used that particular ECM because it had the extra room for boost values? Mabe i'm just remembering wrong!


Something like that? I'm trying to hack my ECM for my buick, i wonder how sean went about that.

[Sean]

ahh that code isnt even being used anymore. im onto the later p4 ecms. the code im suing now is a combination of the GM boost codes. im not gonna get into detials. needless to say ill be making a rom editor avaiable for those who want it. its also had alot of improvement made to it. the holden code wouldnt run DIS so it had to go.

[Johnny O]

6 lbs at 13.6 sounds kind of fast,you sure it was not on an1/8 mile track.I was running about 15 lbs and it got me to the low13s.You should look in to something for cooling intake temp down the car will run alot better.Good luck on your project.

[Sean]

6 lbs at 13.6 sounds kind of fast,you sure it was not on an1/8 mile track.I was running about 15 lbs and it got me to the low13s.You should look in to something for cooling intake temp down the car will run alot better.Good luck on your project.

im not even going to dive into this today. obviosuly your car was not properly tunned. the added volumetric effiency of the turbo at high rpm makes the engine alot more power. also i have a properly sized turbo which spools right off the line.

[zero.counter]

Hmmm.

....

[wprocomp]

slobber...ugghhh...hehe...hey sean I wish I could commit now but I dont have the money...but when i do get some i will contacting you for sure man

[zero.counter]

Very nice setup, breathes new life into the old gal.

[smufguy]

when Seans says something, it stands, cause its true :bow: THis is really making me want another 3g and turbo it with your kit, man....... talk about killing every damn car (almost every damn car) on the friggin road. whooohoooooooo. they will be like wtf????? anyway, ill stop whoring :D

[Sean]

sell the other junk and get a 3g going.

[smufguy]

the other junk is a 3g Sean :D heheheheheh, but soon enough we will see. Keep me in mind cause who knows, two years down the road. I might get a much more advanced and appealing kit from you.

[2old_honda]

Originally posted by A20A1
Sure only 6lbs, but the compression ratio is still stock, right?

yes stock internals. But you have to understand, that is faster than most turbo b16's (with stock internals) and on par with turbocharged integras (with stock internals) with both running the around same boost pressures. very cool.

[bobafett]

omg thats mean 1/8 mile... lol my car could do THAT

[A20A1]

Originally posted by 2old_honda
yes stock internals. But you have to understand, that is faster than most turbo b16's (with stock internals) and on par with turbocharged integras (with stock internals) with both running the around same boost pressures. very cool.

No his question was how come it was so fast with only 6lbs... and I was trying to mention that his compression ratio was higer then most turboed engines with higher boost. But I was unsusre that he didn't do any work on the internals so I added the "?"

[Sean]

im getting a new boost gauge tommorw mine appears to be inaccruarte. ill have the final pressure up tommorow. thats what i get for using and old gauge LOL.

[3rd GEN]

damn thats gonna be sweet..
if someone where to get all this kit...
how can we install it..
like if they were to take it somewhere , the shop would be like WTF is all this???? lol

[89AccordLvr]

so is it possible to install a blow off valve to get that nice pssstttt sound or is the boost too low

[guaynabo89]

Are the ignition coils sensative to vibration?


Would you be able to mount them on the engine itself to get the coils closer to the plugs?

[Sean]

id prefer to keep the whole ignition system away from heat. if gm redid the cavalier layout agian theyt do the same. trust me even though its off the engine it could be on it. the plug wires arent but 2-3 inches longer then stock. the dis coils fire at 60kv plenty hot if you ask me.

[89AccordLvr]

so is it possible to install a blow off valve to get that nice pssstttt sound or is the boost too low

[guaynabo89]

Originally posted by Sean
the dis coils fire at 60kv plenty hot if you ask me.


Does that translate into 60,000 volts?

[2old_honda]

Originally posted by 89AccordLvr
so is it possible to install a blow off valve to get that nice pssstttt sound or is the boost too low yes you can install a BOV

[Sean]

when you come to drive the car it will all make sense.

[ryan88lxi]

is the egr valve still on there from the exh manifold?

[AZmike]

Originally posted by guaynabo89
Does that translate into 60,000 volts?

yes

[2old_honda]

Sean, did you ever fix your boost gauge? How much were you running?

[Sean]

10psi recalibrated for the 2.25 bar map. i totaly forgot about that when i was setting it up lol. chrysler bars are like gm 2.25 bars respectievly

[Hash_man_Se_i]

I think that looks sweet and all, but with the stock internals, I highly doubt that you are running 13's. It's not like that turbo is anything special. I could be wrong about that, but I call BS.

I know someone who is running just over 12psi in his turbo 94 integra GS-r and just ran 13.3. I want proof of your 13 sec 1/4 mile.

[Sean]

I know someone who is running just over 12psi in his turbo 94 integra GS-r and just ran 13.3. I want proof of your 13 sec 1/4 mile.

not my problem your friend cant tune fuel and spark properly.our cars are a few lbs lighter then a gsr. turbos dont have to be huge to work.i also highly doubt your frined has a turbo that will make boost essensitally off idle. but then lets not dive into the dynamics of manifold afterburn and how to retard timing to propigate it to reduce spool up time.

facts are facts. very few of the turbo hondas out there even run remotely as good as they should. its not a big deal to make 200hp with this turbo. its not even hard. if youi want to come out ot the track then be my guest otherwise wait for the mpegs like everybody else. everybdy in the turbo world think bigger is better. thats way to far from true. you want a turbo that will produce the most amount of AVE TQ across the rev range and have good spool up charecteristics.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

^ you are making my brain hurt by reading that. I guess you seem to know what you are talking about. And I know that bigger isnt always better.

I think I am going to head down to RCTS Canada some time this week, and ask them what they think about a turbo in my car... I dont know whether to do that, or swap in a B18c/or c5. And then maybe turbo that down the road... we will see.

[modu03]

I would love your turbo system... saving money now, but... have you nailed down a price for the kit yet???

[Slanter]

so what does adding a turbo like this do to your gas mileage sean?

[Vinny]

All I can say is....... I want one

[Sean]

gas milage is about the same. they are for sale you know

[NXRacer]

Originally posted by Slanter
so what does adding a turbo like this do to your gas mileage sean?

who gives a shit about gas mileage when you can run mid 13's on stock internals??!?!?

[NXRacer]

Sean will probably flame me, but i'm looking into some ways of getting an ECU that will work for boost as opposed to using the GM ecm.

What ECU model controls the fuel injected a20's? I've been reading that any OBD-0 chip can be modded to fit in our car and be able to handle boost. Or we can convert to OBD1. From what i've read, its not as hard as people on this board make it out to be. There is quite a bit of info out there regarding conversions. If all the civic/teg/CRX guys do it, why cant we? our only difference between those stock motors is that its a different CC size. thats all.

My question is (mostly for sean) is why arent aftermarket ECU's being used instead of bothering with reprogramming a GM ecu? Honda's ECU's work GREAT.

How was justin controlling his fuel maps and ignition?

I know this is kinda random, but i'm looking for some basic answers to help my research.

[Swan]

ok ok ok...... umm... I've tried to figure this out.... but umm...........no! I've been seeing a lot of GM ecm's as subjects, but haven't ever looked at them....and then I come here, and see pictures (which could be smaller by the way), full of wires and other mumbo jumbo...not saying that iits anything bad, just can't make anything out... ok, another thing... I read that we can safely handle at or around 6 or 7 PSI of boost, but no more... and this deal can get us up in the 30's? DAYUM!!!!!!!! or did I miss osmething? either way, for the love, help me out, if it improves a turbo THAT much, I'd spend the money for it! I'm gonna havta look more into this!

[89AccordLvr]

so how much boost does the chrysler take like up to how much psi or is it just the 6 psi ur running the highest

[Sean]

itll make over 15 psi 18 is the highest ive dared to run and that was on race gas.

[Sean]

hey guys whats up. well over the last 2 days ive found all my missing HP. first problem was the 88-89 split runer intake the air flapper door was leaning out the motor when your stomped the pedal. the second problem is a bit more complicated to explian.

ive got a custom made boost gauge. it read directly from the map sensor. uses leds its all pretty and shit. the EE that designed it goofed up the calibration. so we fixed it or so we thought. i finally broke down tonight and spent $80 on a new guarenteed guage. well to my chagrin the car has been running on 4 si of boost and making 15.9 passes. traction was a problem. wierd huh.

so at first i thought my good this guage has got to be wrong. so the people that sold me the guage offered to let me hook up three guages to verify accuracy. well im gonna bea the EE over the head in the morning. car has been running 4 psi of boost. it would spike to 6. the datalogs were usueless as the map sensor reads are to slow comming throught the output to be of any real use. so i discounted them. big mistake.

so i got the boost up tonight and WOW car is hard to control going in any direction. ive got it at 8 psi now and the motor is fine. so im headed back to the track to check things out. i guess the guage was accurate after all when he first built it. ill make runs at varying levels of boost to show just how fast this thing can be !

so after i got an accurate boost guage it was obvious that the wastegate was shot so i replaced it. and man the boost is on a whole shit load earlier now.

have a good night guys ill have track data tommorow if were lucky !! weather hold out !! whooooo whooooo.

[Swan]

Originally posted by 4sillypwr
ok i'm a newbie here. so you repin the accord/prelude harness to plug into the gm ecm? then you have to swap the dist internals somehow? i am going to turbo my 87 prelude this winter. so then after you get it all swpped in you have to chip the gm ecm to run teh correct timing and fuel for the a20 right? what program do you use to do this? feel free to flame me but i'm am a little computer illetierate

yeah I'm definately with ya... I'm reading this, but it looks like a monkey learning chinese..... the understanding....it just ain't happening.... but for 30 PSI of boost, I definately feel like its all worthwhile (excuse me if that's wrong, I read in another thread that by doing this, our engines can handle 30 psi, or something along those lines)!! I don't think that spending about 2 or 3 grand on6 or 7 PSI is really worth it... I'm sure if I had the time to look into it more, and read it enough times (probably 45 or so, and it should START kicking in) exactly how much time and effort is needed for this to work out, all in all? i think I can get the ECM needed... but what's the deal about everyone talking about different ECM's? are there different ones that can work, as long as you get the pins right? I think tomorrow at work is gonna be more of a field day on figuring this out....

[86AccordLxi]

Sweet!! We're all anxiously waiting the results!!!!

Alex

[AccordEpicenter]

I second that!

[bobafett]

hooooooly shit! i am psyched!

[2old_honda]

:cool: glad you figured it out!

[3G Jester]

if its a problem you think could happen to others who are putting turbo into their 3g's...put some sort of thread into the FAQ/how to forums about this. a few people have been working on turbos these days and im sure that more are sure to follow.....so any help from the originators of the a20 turbo would help greatly :wave:

[shepherd79]

can't wait to see the dyno.
man i wish i had EFI car.

[Sean]

my car did not start out as efi. all the efi stuff is just a honda intake manifold and all the elctronics etc is the GM ecm kit.

[shepherd79]

NO shit.
WOW. i may have to look into what you have and how you did it.

[Coroncho80]

Alright dude. Let's see some numbers man! :D

[A Dawg Jr]

riiigggggttt..............NOW! Results!!

[Sean]

ive been tunning a few vehicles as part of my use of the dyno. i did managne to get a few partial pulls in tonight. here are the numbers to 3000 rpm at 10psi of boost at the wheels mind you.

215ft lb of TQ at 2800 rpm
105hp at at 2800 rpm. i was working on spool up think i made progress ? lol. ill be getting the car running to full engine speed by the end of the week. ttyl its late sean out

[thegreatdane]

Is 215ft lb equal 291,5 Nm?? If it is, that looks pretty good! :beer:

[1989 DX R]

Wtf? Only 105 hp? Wild.

[foobari]

Originally posted by 1989 DX R
Wtf? Only 105 hp? Wild.
Yep. 105hp @ 2800rmp. That is wild!

[shepherd79]

Originally posted by thegreatdane
Is 215ft lb equal 291,5 Nm?? If it is, that looks pretty good! :beer:

yeah i just did the conversion and it came out to 291.34 Nm.

[foobari]

Originally posted by shepherd79
yeah i just did the conversion and it came out to 291.34 Nm.
That's totally amazing! Compare it to e.g. B20A2 (138hp) max torque: 170Nm @ 5000rpm. Me want turbo. Not late. Soon! :D

[Sean]

lol it only made 105hp at 2800 rpm. 2800 rpm thats barely spining the engine. ill get some good full pull numbers up soon just be patient.

[bobafett]

daaaaaaaaaaaamn just imagine at higher RPM's!

ok i gotta get this done. :)

[RobT5580]

Glad to here your car is going. Im back at my turbo project but i just drained the bank again to buy my Turbo Manifold from Ludespeed and i bought another full B20A Head and misc parts to complete the second B20A i have because the way it looks is i will buy another 3gee for a daily driver. Im still not sure what im gonna do for a ECU but iv been thinking of doing what Justin did (FMU, MSD BTM ETC) to get the motor broken in and get a feel for how everything is working before i go the alternative route stand alone or even your setup. Glad to see another boosted accord from you.

[wprocomp]

WHHEEEEEEE!!!!! turbo make wprocomp happy!!!! lol.....hey sean have you reset the redline at all? I mean is it going to make peak power at a higher rpm now?

[Sean]

ECU but iv been thinking of doing what Justin did (FMU, MSD BTM ETC) to

bad idea

[pimp86LX]

damn.....can't wait to see the numbers @ a higher RPM

Sean....you are the man.:super:

[Sean]

there comming. dont worry about that. ill get megs etc when im 100% happy with it. there alot more to come thats for sure.

[89AccordLvr]

nice i think 15 is more then good with stock internals but after getting some rods pistons and turbo cam it should run 18 with 93 octane gas i think right.. where are you located because i wanted if installations would be possible at extra cost if some people would make a sacrifice to drive to where your at

[Sean]

im highly considering running a seasonaly tunning business. summers in michigan and the winters in FL. just been toying with the idea. but if your willing to drive 2 days im sure i can get you turboed and out the door in a very short span of time ( less then 3 days) just let me know whats up.

[AccordEpicenter]

damn im stoked. Youll make more power with seans setup because the timing will be just exactly where the engine makes most power, right before detonation, and its also safer than running a btm etc

[smufguy]

Those are pretty sick numbers, those numbers remind me of BMW motors having crazy torque at off idle. Sean, i gotta second that notion of 'YOU ARE THE MAN'. hehehehe.

[Immeraufdemhund]

using a $50 fuel pump from autozone. the 86-92 camaro TPI 5.7l v8 fuel pump supports 400hp. nice and cheap it does fit the stock hange but youll have to play match the fuel sock.

umm, i looked for tpi but Master was the only fuel pump for 50 at both auto zone and advance (advance is were i work)... this is what i found

Master E3210
Electric Pump
Lifetime Limited Warranty Find in a store $50.74

then i also get 20% off of that. Is this the same fuel pump.
And also the second question is what do you mean by play match the fuel sock?...hehhee i sound like a neewb

[2old_honda]

Originally posted by Immeraufdemhund
umm, i looked for tpi but Master was the only fuel pump for 50 at both auto zone and advance (advance is were i work)... this is what i found

Master E3210
Electric Pump
Lifetime Limited Warranty Find in a store $50.74

then i also get 20% off of that. Is this the same fuel pump.
And also the second question is what do you mean by play match the fuel sock?...hehhee i sound like a neewb

TPI means tuned port injection. The 3rd gen camaro had two kinds of fuel injection, TPI (tuned port injection) and TBI (throttle body injection). Sean was not refering to a brand of fuel pump, he was talkiing about the kind of fuel injection on the camaro.

[carotman]

Damn I hate you sean.... now I want to turbo my B20A :D :D

[NXRacer]

105 hp before the turbo has really started to spool? interesting.........

[89AccordLvr]

hey sean could you email me like a price or a final price that is needed to save up so i can have enough... im not planning it anytime soon but hopefully by next winter i can do something just tell me a price of a kit and ecm package just an estimate so i can know how much to save up... u could post here or just email me to [email protected] thanx

[Johnny O]

No factory turbo is going to spool up that fast especially from a junkyard off a GM.The do not come ball bearing.Our cars are not much lighter than a gsr.

[86AccordLxi]

The turbo he's using is a Chrysler t3, i do believe. And I think it spools pretty quick. What other options do exist though that would work well/great with the kit? Or is the manifold designed to only accomodate the t3? Thanks.

alex

[NXRacer]

he said his manifold is only for the chrysler because it has a funny flange thats different then the 'normal' t3's

[86AccordLxi]

Oh, thanks for clearing that up.

Alex

[AccordEpicenter]

yeah its the fucking shit

[RobT5580]

Originally posted by Sean
bad idea

This would only be temporary because i want to do a stand alone sytem buy i want something i would be able to tune thats not a pain and i want support within Connecticut. So far the only system that i have found that meets that is Motec but i havnt called the company in CT to take a look at what they can do. I know a guy who does a lot with Electromotive but i dont know how well he will provide technical support and the shop he sells them to dont have a dyno so i think proper tuning would be a pain. So at the moment Motec looks the best but its expensive and if the shop is any good then it will be worth my while. Keep in mind i want my car to still keep up with emmissions and be pretty hastle free so thats why im going the extra mile.

Question: Did you run the tube from your turbo manifold to the EGR valve? If not is their any negative effects of not using your EGR. I was planning on having a flange welded to my manifold so i can keep use of the EGR.

[bobafett]

well if his car cant spool up a .42/.48 AR then why are guys in civics with d16's spooling bigger turbos almost that fast?

[1hot89accord]

well... all i can say is soon as i got 2200 bucks i will be hittin you up again sean, you have everything that turns my car into a EFI right? cause my car has a carb right now, and also after i buy that kit from you, how much is it gonna cost me to get it installed, or how hard is it for me to do it, i got some decent wrenching skillz but i never done anything big like a turbo install, hit me back

[Sean]

Did you run the tube from your turbo manifold to the EGR valve

my nox production is really low. the turbine housing restricts the flow and cuase self egr or reversion. i have zero nox. if i had nox problems i would hook the egr back up.

[Dibbs]

Sean. I have an idea about cooling the turbo system. What about the possibility of slapping an air to air, top mount intercooler and using a hood scoop that would actually be functional. Is there enough hood clearance for that sort of set up?

[RobT5580]

Cool, I was concerned with getting my setup properly so i dont have any problems when emmissions time comes around. So i will see how much of a pain it will be to hook up when i put everything on the block. Thanks

[Neuspeed007]

congradulations sean on a job well done. Its good to see everything worked out. THE SET UP LOOKS SOOOO SWEET!

[IWLSF]

The one question you keep failing to answer, is where is the BOV. How are you releasing that excess boost when the throttle plate closes. You fail to incorporate that and you can kiss the turbo kit goodbye real quickly.

[Johnny O]

He act like he designed this turbo setup but it came from the junkyard.Retarding the timing helps build boost off the line,but just need to add fuel because you can blow the motor.

[Scorpion88LX]

he did design the turbo setup, he got the turbo from the junkyard. he also designed the engine controle. however i shouldn't need to explain if you did something like............. READ!!!
YOU ASS.

[pric]

Originally posted by Scorpion88LX
he did design the turbo setup, he got the turbo from the junkyard. he also designed the engine controle. however i shouldn't need to explain if you did something like............. READ!!!
YOU ASS.

:lol You called him a ASS:lol

[Sean]

actually i did select all the parts used with alot of gathered info thats been exstensively digested.how many motors you put in your car ?as for the bov. well if you running alot of boost its a nessecity. it also depends on the amount compressor surge in the charge pipping. yes a bov is nice and i do plan to add them but at low boost you wasting your time.

[smufguy]

well i second that comment made my scorpion. I can feel the battle bwt Sean and Johnny. But John, Sean spent a lot of time designing his set up and actually making it work under street legal conditions. He used a lot of gm parts i believe to make it happen. His turbo is from the junkyard, but his set up and desgin and controls are his own hardwork as mentioned above. If u did follow up on his work like half a year back. You might have noticed that he was hinting on his hardwork on a turbo set up.


Important note: Sean KNOWS his shit and im getting tired of people being smart ass with him. what a lot of guys dont see is how cool he is in his response when u ask a smart as question. Anywho, he knows what he is doing cause he has done a lot of research and hardwork into it and thats the bottom line.


Side note: I dont know why some of the guys here take shit soo personally. You cant be the king of everything. damn........

[2old_honda]

you dont HAVE to have a BOV. Just look at Buick Grand Nationals. they didnt have BOVs or BPVs and alot of them have 100K+ mi on the stock engine/turbo. I dont know why you people are making such a big deal about it anyway. Its not like it is hard to weld the fucking thing on.

[Immeraufdemhund]

I guess they like the Fast and Furious Set up sound, or just want extra pieces parts.... but extra stuff sounds rather red neck to me.... hmmm as if i should talk about red neck issues while living in TN...hehehe.

[Scorpion88LX]

sean wanted me to post this hope it works

[Scorpion88LX]

this is it
http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/419000-419999/419817_1_full.jpg

[89AccordLvr]

having a BOV has its good and bads... i think it sounds really nice and its good for higher boosted turbo but also it gives away that you have a turbo and u lose the sleeper status with one on

[NXRacer]

Originally posted by 89AccordLvr
having a BOV has its good and bads... i think it sounds really nice and its good for higher boosted turbo but also it gives away that you have a turbo and u lose the sleeper status with one on

I'm not gonna have a sleeper. FMIC in my grill and a loud ass BOV is what i'm gonna have. I just cant wait to see the look on peoples face when that BOV blows them off the road.


P.S. opps., thats not a dyno sheet. lol

[Justin86]

Originally posted by NXRacer
I'm not gonna have a sleeper. FMIC in my grill and a loud ass BOV is what i'm gonna have. I just cant wait to see the look on peoples face when that BOV blows them off the road.


P.S. opps., thats not a dyno sheet. lol
Well my car is going to look like it is a sleeper, until you hear the engine. :D $$$

[Justin86]

So how big of a dent will this kit put in my wallet Sean. I would love to slap on this kit and smoke all the muscle cars around here that thing they are the shit cause they run 14's and are faster then all the "rice burners". I would love to show them up sooooo bad :D

[Scorpion88LX]

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22692

[2old_honda]

Originally posted by 89AccordLvr
having a BOV has its good and bads... i think it sounds really nice and its good for higher boosted turbo but also it gives away that you have a turbo and u lose the sleeper status with one on

you can recirculate the BOV or BPV (BPV stands for bypass valve, it has to be recirculated) back into the intake. That quiets it down quite a bit.

[Justin86]

Originally posted by Scorpion88LX
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22692
Thanks dude.

[Immeraufdemhund]

what's the KPA in the picture??

[Sean]

the kpa is pressure. assuming total vacum or no atmopshere kpa = 0. atmosphere is considered 100kpa. so when you hit boost. 110kp that the part of the timing table above yu can see exactly how and where im puling spark in boost to keep out of detonation. the nice parts is that the tables can be edited by anybody. this is the table for my non ntercooled car. when i ad an intercooler of some sort im gonna redo the table for diferent types of intercoolers.

basically i was just showing off the spark table and why the car doesnt go BOOM.

[DarknessRS]

This looks to be well worth the wait.

[Swan]

gyah, this place is like heaven! I've been looking for people like this! first off, I am a big fan of any and all hondas that I've ever seen! I like the new preludes (I guess teh 98-00,not sure since they stopped making them), but absolutely NOTHING can beat the 3rd gen ludes! I would almost KILL for one! too bad there aren't any for sale around here, and the ones that you do see are too banged up! very few people around here actually take care of their cars... it makes me sick! anyway, about the a20, and b16 and whatnot.... why change the engine to a smaller displacement? I mean, you're not gonna see a chevy man go from a 350 to a 305, or a ford 351 to a 302.... well, I havenb't seen that many 351's anyway.... but is what I"m saying, is yeah, you might be able to get more out of a b16, but the weight would be slowing it down too much to make a difference... it seems like that to me anyway...if I were to swap with a smaller engine, it would be a b18c5....yep... teggie type r

[AccordEpicenter]

yeah but that b18c5 wont hold up to boost as well as a stock a20, its got those sleaves instead of the closed deck and cast iron construction, even if you just look at the compression, ITR is like what... at least 10:1?

[deadlight]

Originally posted by Swan
gyah, this place is like heaven! I've been looking for people like this! first off, I am a big fan of any and all hondas that I've ever seen! I like the new preludes (I guess teh 98-00,not sure since they stopped making them), but absolutely NOTHING can beat the 3rd gen ludes! I would almost KILL for one! too bad there aren't any for sale around here, and the ones that you do see are too banged up! very few people around here actually take care of their cars... it makes me sick! anyway, about the a20, and b16 and whatnot.... why change the engine to a smaller displacement? I mean, you're not gonna see a chevy man go from a 350 to a 305, or a ford 351 to a 302.... well, I havenb't seen that many 351's anyway.... but is what I"m saying, is yeah, you might be able to get more out of a b16, but the weight would be slowing it down too much to make a difference... it seems like that to me anyway...if I were to swap with a smaller engine, it would be a b18c5....yep... teggie type r

You know what? maybe a Chevy boy wouldn't go from a 350 to a 305, but Chevy made a 302 in 69 for the Camaro, redlined close to 7000 I believe (not entirely sure) and put down more power, and weighed less. I know alot of old hot rodders that will pay big bucks for a 302 chevy.A smaller engine doesn't mean much, a Honda FC20 puts out 240 hp. H22A? something like 200. And then you have Mopar, Sure, you could get a 440 in your 'Cuda, but why do that when the 426 puts out 25 more horses?

[Sean]

well guys i had to get bigger injectors and totally abuse my clutch but i finaly managed to get near the elusive 200whp on the dyno late saturday night. ill keep you posted on what she finally makes once i get a more gripy clutch. i cant pull it any higher then 5200rpm becuase the power slips it. anyways at 500rpm were looking at 190whp so 200whp is around the corner. itll post up some dyno sheets. next i need to conquer the track. and the 250ft lbs of tq from 3000rpm up is damn nice to ! at my current HP and shit i should be able to make 13.6 pass at roughly 100mph ( already beat 100mph) with ease if i can get traction and a decent 60ft time !!

[MIK3]

Insane man. You sure do give a good name to 3rd gen's everywhere.

[MrBen]

Daaaamn!

[Sean]

i never did mention before all the dyno numbers ive been listing have been created on a mustang eddy current dyno and are whp or wheel horse power.car is smoking fast all this at 12psi of boost without an intercooler of any sort.

[ShawnS]

sounds like your progress is going good. congrats dude. lots of respect for undertaking a project like this.

do you run on pump gas?
what is your compression ratio?

[Sean]

pump gas and stock motor with 176,890 miles. ive been driving it like this for 15k now.

[2old_honda]

Congratulations Sean! I know you have been working damn hard on everything. Keep up the good work man. I cant wait to get this stuff in my car! :)

[deadlight]

Hey Sean, I don't know exactly how bad your tirespin situation is right now, but I read an article on Oscar Jackson (Jackson Racing Superchargers) and when he raced his late 70's early 80's Civics, he would launch in 2nd since he spun the whole way through first anyways, I know it sounds crazy, so I don't want to hear backlash from anyone else, but have you tried it yet?

[k-roy]

Congratulations Sean, I would like to take a ride your car sometime. Sucks about the clutch though. What type do you have in there now?

[toastyghost]

I don't know how it would affect performance, but how much of a bad-ass would you be if you could say "I have to launch in 2nd because I have too much power" :D

[DarknessRS]

Originally posted by Sean
i never did mention before all the dyno numbers ive been listing have been created on a mustang eddy current dyno and are whp or wheel horse power.car is smoking fast all this at 12psi of boost without an intercooler of any sort.

If the car is on a dynamometer, would a regular intercooler make a difference?

[Sean]

Originally posted by DarknessRS
If the car is on a dynamometer, would a regular intercooler make a difference?

yeah cuase we use a huge 10hp 6 blade fan to push air on the front of the car to keep it running kewl. its a mustang 1750 dynometer.

[deadlight]

Originally posted by toastyghost
I don't know how it would affect performance, but how much of a bad-ass would you be if you could say "I have to launch in 2nd because I have too much power" :D

Man, they'd either be too afraid to race you, or you could make a shitload of money off of riced out civics cause they think you're full of shit.

[AccordEpicenter]

Sean how long do u expect the cast pistons to hold at 12psi? I mean, with youre engine managemant (read:No Detonation) is it indefinitly or are we still looking at like a few months before they break?

[Vinny]

Great numbers Sean, can't wait to see what it does with a better clutch setup

[guaynabo89]

Originally posted by Sean
were looking at 190whp

Hey Sean wanna race?:D

[Sean]

Originally posted by AccordEpicenter
Sean how long do u expect the cast pistons to hold at 12psi? I mean, with youre engine managemant (read:No Detonation) is it indefinitly or are we still looking at like a few months before they break?

at 3months im fairly confident they can hold more boost. but the rings will start to suffer if they dont have enough gap in them. im gonna call it quits at 15psi. not due to fear of the engine breaking a carnk,rod,piston but the fact that im affriad of the ring gaps touching and ruinging the motor. as always ive been telling folks whats been happening from teh get go. do i think the cast pistons will break ?? i doubt it. but with a really hgh EGT the rings gap ends could but up and that would destroy the piston and the cylinder wall fairly wquickly.

[thegreatdane]

How much power do you lose in the transmission? Any estimated crank HP? What size rims/tires do you have?

[Justin86]

Well that is pretty bad ass but why were you having problems with the ACT clutch and pressure plate. The best one they make for are cars can hold up to like 265 tq. (I think that is about the right figure.)

[AccordEpicenter]

damn maybe we dont need buit engines anyway... the pistons were the weak part. The fact that you hit 15 psi AND the engine lived is just shocking... impressive indeed.

[Sean]

remeber im collecting HP and TQ #'s at the wheels.the dyno simulates the cars actually wieght and aerodynamic resistance so its true WHP in thats whats avaiable to move the car. the flywheel numbers could be sunstaintlly higher. given tire diameter etc it should be in the neighborhood of 20% total drive line loss. so my 190whp works out to be almost 228 at the flywheel. but the TQ curve is so sweet that 250ft lbs makes the car fast. HP is simply a function of TQ.

formula for HP


Torque x RPM / 5250 = HP

so 205 ft lbs at 5000rpm = 195 hp. so if i can pull it to say 5500rpm ill make 200+ with ease. the TQ starts to fall of after 4600rpm which is expected with the stock cam and the A/R of the exhuast turbine. still a pretty potent combination

NOw mind you if i plug these number into a drag calculator ( a conservative one ) with my car at 2600lbs i can easily make that elusive 13.6 with ease and a good 60ft time.

Actually the calculator here show 13.57 at 100mph ( i already made 100 mph) so if i can get the clutch to stop slipping and get some good traction its very doable.

heres the calculator.


http://www.prestage.com/Car+Math/ET+and+Horsepower+Calculators/Calculate+ET+and+MPH+using+HP+and+Weight+/default.aspx

this one is coneservative. if i lighten the car 600lbs itll run 12.8 all day long. and if i add 5 lbs of boost im break into the mid elevens at 2000lbs. does anybody see this is undoable ? i dont. im figuring if i goto 20 psi of boost with intercooling and a mild cam change mid elvens at 2600lbs should be a snap. ill be making close to 300hp then and over 360 ft of Tq based on the way this engine responds to boost etc. although ill need a bigger turbo to keep the effiecncy up !

[ryan88lxi]

is 12 psi of boost safe for people buying the kit? also, i asked a question in the pricing thread if you want to take a look at that (sean) i myself would be paranoid to run that much boost. but the fact that you are doing it on an all stock engine with lots of miles is comforting, since my engine has only abut 10K miles. i really want to do the turbo kit but i dont feel that i have enough undestanding about it after reading all the threads. maybe i should give you a call. anyways, have any dyno charts? and how much power do you think a mild boost setting like about 6 - 8 psi would produce. would the boost be adjustable without having to change fuel management? im probably asking this in the wrong thread but i dont feel like typing it again. ok im shutting up now

[wprocomp]

I would like to see what you would do with built internals...I have been talkin to my buddy with his turbo sentra and he keeps telling me that there is no way the A20 would survive on more than 10psi...but...he hasnt seen the car that you have so he has no room to talk...another thing is I would think above 15psi I would see fuel pump probs no? I mean it would be sucking it dry at that much wouldnt it?

[AccordEpicenter]

honestly i would have said it was BS too if i didnt know much about it but since his engine managemant is killer i believe it. The spark timing is the big thing, very few turboed cars have the ignition control that this setup has

[Sean]

Originally posted by ryan88lxi
is 12 psi of boost safe for people buying the kit? also, i asked a question in the pricing thread if you want to take a look at that (sean) i myself would be paranoid to run that much boost. but the fact that you are doing it on an all stock engine with lots of miles is comforting, since my engine has only abut 10K miles. i really want to do the turbo kit but i dont feel that i have enough undestanding about it after reading all the threads. maybe i should give you a call. anyways, have any dyno charts? and how much power do you think a mild boost setting like about 6 - 8 psi would produce. would the boost be adjustable without having to change fuel management? im probably asking this in the wrong thread but i dont feel like typing it again. ok im shutting up now

If you do everything i tell you the t-kit and the ECM will be fine upto 16 psi. that means the turbo,injectors etc will be the ones i tell you to get. after 12psi intercooling will be nseecacry so im looking into some unused code space in the ECM to handle Water injection.

so figure bone stock 12 psi is the highest boost you can run safely. now i might run more but thats my perogative to do so. 6-8 psi makes the car very fun to drive but only offers a modest increase in power. however the extra TQ int he lower revs makes the car pass etc much like a big v6. so its one for the other.

[ryan88lxi]

he has a camaro fuel pump i think

[Sean]

Originally posted by wprocomp
I would like to see what you would do with built internals.

ive got a built motor sitting iun my garage. i have a morbid curiosity to se exactly when it will break my self. im adding a prototype water injection setup next week. then ill be able to add more power !!!

..
Originally posted by wprocomp
I have been talkin to my buddy with his turbo sentra and he keeps telling me that there is no way the A20 would survive on more than 10psi...but...he hasnt seen the car that you have so he has no room to talk...another thing is I would think above 15psi I would see fuel pump probs no? I mean it would be sucking it dry at that much wouldnt it?


Motor in my car has been getting 11-12 psi for quiet some time now. the engine is not weak. the pistons are sort of fragile like glass. they can carry alot of wieght but hit em hard with knock and they shatter like glass. so not knock the engine is a big big big deal
!!!

As for the fuel pump im using a GM TPI 1991 camaro fuel pump from a l98 350 TPI z28 iroc camaro it will support 400hp no problem. drops in the factory hanger. and $50-75 at autozone etc. !

[Sean]

Originally posted by AccordEpicenter
honestly i would have said it was BS too if i didnt know much about it but since his engine managemant is killer i believe it. The spark timing is the big thing, very few turboed cars have the ignition control that this setup has

Not just spark but fuel. i have all kind of saftey feature i finally got working properly like the knock sensor etc. granted i try like hell to stay out of knock so saw a few small ones a few days ago when i was running out of injector but now that ive got enough fuel all gone. yes i have the best spark control in town.

[Sean]

Originally posted by ryan88lxi
he has a camaro fuel pump i think
yes i do

[wprocomp]

well sean are you planning on making a drag car anytime? if you can get this motor built and get some fiberglass parts made I think you would have one hell of a car(I can help crew too:D )...also I have seen some cars run the water injection setup but some of them have ran into probs with the water mixing with the oil,I am sure you have a way around that right?

also I would look into some good axles once you go beyond 400hp...I am not sure of anyone that could build em but I am sire it could be done

[ryan88lxi]

i was wondering about the possibilities for a front mount intercooler. with the colder temperature from a front mount, would that raiseboost levels? also, what has to be done to change boost levels, like if i went ot the drag strip and felt lke running 10 psi instead of 6. also, do you have a blow off valve on yours? is one necessary? how can kit buyers adjust the ecm? would we need some kind of obd system to change fuel maps for different boost levels and what not? also, would it be easier to hook the stock computer to say, an apex AFC or other systems like that. sorry for all teh questions, but i just need to understand more before i drop 2000 on this =) thanks for looking, i wish i could im you or something insteadof posting so much

[Sean]

find a place to put the fmic thats worth using and ill think about it. those long 24+ inch fmic cores are a waste

as for water in the oil with water injection WOW how much water are they using ? a firehose ?

[guaynabo89]

Originally posted by Sean
but the rings will start to suffer if they dont have enough gap in them. the fact that im affriad of the ring gaps touching and ruinging the motor.

Can you explain this a little more in detail?

[Sean]

sure as heat in the cylinder goes up with pressure the rings expand more. i typically gap rings for high boost motors at 20 thou or so it depends on cylinder size etc. the stock ring gaps are tighter like 16-17 thou so with teh extra heat its very possiable that the rings could butt ends under lots of boost. i dont think however it would be a problem in a 15 psi or under engine.

[guaynabo89]

Thats kind of what I was thinking but I never thought that they would expand that far as to touch each other and cause damage.


But hey you learn something new everyday.:)

[ryan88lxi]

i was thinking abou tthe kind that robtt550 or whatever was using. he was doing a b series swap, i think his was a spearco, sort of log and sknny, one like that would fit down there by the grille i would think. any thing on the other questions? thanks

[Sean]

the first 10 inches of the core do 90% of the cooling. the other etxra inehcs are worthless. you better off with a short core but lots of rows. the only problem is finding something like that to fit in the 3g front bumper without cutting hacking etc. the bumper is a crash safety feature and id like to keep people aware of that fact.

[ryan88lxi]

i have no problem cutting out a little of the bottom part of the bumper. im concerned about the plumbing for it though, if there is enough space for some pipe to get down there. plus if i crashed id prolly walk out of my car and check for damage before realizing my arm was missing lol. thanks for looking at my probably ingnorant questions tho haha

[Gregg86DX]

Sean,

Are you looking into methenol for the water injection? I realize it would take some additional tuning since it changes your A/F ratio, but the extra punch would be worth it. :cool:

It seems like a combination of lower boost (6-8lbs) and methanol/water injection would be a great combination for a safe, reliable street setup.

Gregg

[Sean]

Originally posted by ryan88lxi
i was wondering about the possibilities for a front mount intercooler. with the colder temperature from a front mount, would that raiseboost levels?

im gonna eb including a very smple wastegate controller. itll vary boost from 4-23 psi. if you need mroe adjustment then that your on crack :-) ! as for the intercooler well if you increase efficeny in thermal transfer typically pressure drop goes up and vise versa. its a comprimise. the intercooler isnt really there to make the chrage air mroe dense as its there to limit pre combustion cylinder temps. all things being equal psi per psi the Water inejction will make mroe power with the same boost level and less boost lag



Originally posted by ryan88lxi

also, what has to be done to change boost levels, like if i went ot the drag strip and felt lke running 10 psi instead of 6. also, do you have a blow off valve on yours? is one necessary? how can kit buyers adjust the ecm? would we need some kind of obd system to change fuel maps for different boost levels and what not? also, would it be easier to hook the stock computer to say, an apex AFC or other systems like that. sorry for all teh questions, but i just need to understand more before i drop 2000 on this =) thanks for looking, i wish i could im you or something insteadof posting so much

The ecm kits use EPROMS. these eproms can be reprogrammed with some fairly inexspensive hard ware about $300 worth inclduing teh editing software for the ECM. but if you hold out there will be an all in one ERPOM drop in replacement that will alow for tunnign on the fly for roughly $250 or so.

[Dibbs]

Sean,

Since space is an important factor for choosing an intercooler in your case, have you given thought to a top mount setup, similar to the WRX? I've saw auctions on ebay with WRX factory intercoolers going for $50-$75.

Intercooler (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2435709038&category=33742)

Of course it will mean getting a hood scoop and there's issues with that but I think it's a bit safer than cutting into the bumper. I know they make WRX style scoops which, would be a natural fit for this setup.

To cool it further, you could get one of those CO2 spray bars for around $100-125 after you plumb the lines and get a small tank for the CO2.

I'm not sure on how much hood clearance our cars have, but I just thought I'd throw that our there, just to get the thoughts rolling.

[od2681]

wait a sec....you runnin a stock motor???

[NXRacer]

you catch on pretty quick OD..... :D he's been running a stock motor since the beginning of this project.

[od2681]

oh my god im stupid....i didnt know that...so there is no internal work done..damn taht is good..that must mean these motors are strong as hell....damn...damn....damn....

[MoonScryer]

You finally figured that out :D

I just pushed past 360,000mi. Didn't know it until I slowed down from 120mph follow an IS 300 for 10 miles so I could get home faster on the freeway. ;)

[Sean]

yeah its stock except for the turbo hanging off the front of it.

[od2681]

damn i knew the a20 were strong..but not turbo strong...damn..madprops man...now im thinkin turbo..but ima do some internal work before....will take me a long time..but will get there..haha

[toastyghost]

Originally posted by od2681
damn i knew the a20 were strong..but not turbo strong...
Iron blocks will hold boost? No shit, huh? Welcome to the boat you missed a couple months ago :lol

[4sillypwr]

Plus them rods are bigger than a little d-series. Gotta love cast iron closed deck blocks. You're already sleaved and have blockguard. Of course cast iron blocks suck when you put them in the car without a lift. a20s way twice as much as my crx d15 did. :)

[Sean]

fucking clutch. does anybody want to pitch into the buy sean a clutch fund ? @^$@#$@&$**#$@#@&

[4sillypwr]

Blow it up already?

[Immeraufdemhund]

what clutch were you running? wont a stage 3 or 4 work better? or am i askinga noob question?

[thegreatdane]

I think that's been discussed in another topic already ;)

[NeubJ]

Originally posted by Sean
i never did mention before all the dyno numbers ive been listing have been created on a mustang eddy current dyno and are whp or wheel horse power.car is smoking fast all this at 12psi of boost without an intercooler of any sort.

My question about the intercooler just got answered.
That's awesome what you have managed to do but I wondering how safe it will be and for how long.

[Justin86]

Originally posted by Immeraufdemhund
what clutch were you running? wont a stage 3 or 4 work better? or am i askinga noob question? Here you go http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24173
As for the A20 being stout it could be a normal thing or Sean has been lucky. It seems like when 88TurboAccord first added the turbo to his car it took about a month at 10PSI to blow the internals on the A20. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm right or damn close.

[MoonScryer]

8psi, and yes he did blow them - the ring landings gave out. Problem Justin had was he was on the stock ECU/EFI system, which is garbage. Sean isn't, so the fuel/timing curve is radically different, and a LOT more controllable.

Most turbo kits you buy off the market include FMU's, regulators, and check valves as a stop-gap measure to compensate for the short comings of the stock ECU. Sean went around that mess by going with an entirely different ECU. Problem solved.

[4sillypwr]

Wow I can't believe he even lasted a month on stock manegment. There is no way that would ever work. Lots more air same amount of fuel =big trouble

[Justin86]

Ok so then the big problem is the fuel managment as of now and a getting a better clutch.

[Sean]

fuel and spark control problems have been solved for some time.

[2old_honda]

what size injectors are you running?

[Sean]

450cc at 45psi. dsm injectors. there big enough for close to 400hp.

[wprocomp]

and they dont cost an arm and a leg either:D big flow for little $$$

[3rdgenlxi]

so let me get this straight!

Turbo kit and ECU for $2.8K ??!!!
That's good!!! But will it pass emissions???
If not do you think i could put 2 high flow cats on it?

[wprocomp]

That's good!!! But will it pass emissions??? its hard to say...I dont think it would but you may be suprised...and no why and gods name would you two cats...that wont help the emissions testing...

[Sean]

you cant pay off the emissions guy ? for top performance ive put emmisions legality way down the list.

[Fiss240]

Sean, i suggest a 1G DSM sidemount as a temporary IC (thats what i have). I got one for $30 shipped. You seem pretty knowlegable about turbo's and im sure you can't disagree that even a crappy intercooler will provide extra knock safety and added hp due to lower intake temps. Most front mount intercoolers are overkill and ruin throttle response anyways.

[Sean]

actually ive been working pretty hard on using chemical intercooling. the water alchohol mix ive been playing wiht is excelent. im looking into a high row short tube extrued intercooler for FMIC use. but the prices are up there so kitting it up is proving ot be dificult inside the ave budget of most folks here.

[4sillypwr]

Well i am going to solve all my FMIC by just cutting,removing, rearanging and rewelding. should work. i'm going to relocate the front mount. scrap power steering. get a 92-95 civic rad. chop out the front of the bumper, and or, try to find a bumper that i can make fit that has more room. that is my plan. i'm not going to boost with out an intercooler

[Sean]

seriously i will find a way to fit an intercooler in there.i saw on tonight thats was reasoanbly priced and looks fiarly simple to put in. its nto acceptable to cut remove destroy structural safety features of the car. thats not an acceptiable solution and also hangs my ass out there for laible laws suits. no thanx.

[Justin86]

Well I hope you figure it out cause that is one thing I can't figure out is where to put the intercooler.

[4sillypwr]

It really wouldn't require that much cutting to fit it in there. mostly just rearanging. I would first make a custom front mount that moves it over the pass side more. the 92-95 civic rad is dual core and a lot smaller. it's taller though. so i would have to drop it down a little inbetween the front crossmemer and the original rad support. I would mount it a few inches to the drivers side of the headlight housing so i can fit a charge pipe through there. then if I keep the power steering I can relocate the hard lines that go around the front of the car so that they follow the front cross member. That alone will give tons more room in there. And when I say bumper I mean bumper cover. I would leave all the stock structural stuff in place. If I kept the stock bumper cover I would cut out the grill part and (maybe) put a SS screen over it. Might be kinda fugly though. And remeber this is in a 87 prelude si so things may be set up a little different. I don't know I've never looked really hard at the 3g accord engine bay.

[Sean]

not tryng to be rude but if you think a civic rad is gonna kewl the a20a for any period of time your compeltely wrong. the aluminum blocks dissapate alot of heat. the only downside to the iron motors aside from wiegth.

[4sillypwr]

I thougt of that to. I havent' completly sold myself on the idea. it might be possible to fit a aftermarket one in there. as long as I can have about 3 inches on each side I can fit everything. It is possible to get a FMIC in there and I will find a way if it kills me.

:D

[Sean]

well if your willing to cut and rebuild the bumper theres alot of FMIC room to be had

[4sillypwr]

I hate body kits but if I have to that would be a bit easier than building a new bumper cover. It's that stupid step in the bumper cover that eats up all the room in there. I think I am going to just do a mild turbo setup for now. At least until you get the clutch thing fugured out.

[Sean]

you gonna build it yourself. im fiarly certian 99% of the parts were using in teh turbo kits should fit like ganbusters. and when i started i thought my shit was midly turboed till i blew by a mustang GT like it was sitting still.

[4sillypwr]

Yeah I intend to build it myself. No offense. I'm in college and poor so I need to do everything myself. My dad used to be a custom metel fabricator so I have all the help I need. rustnags are retarted. I want to put down just enough power so I can still run at least a close to normal clutch setup. How much are you going to charge for your gm ecm kit? I'm trying to decide what engine manegment to use. My brain is jumping all over the place trying to think of an inexpensive but very effective engine manegment system. If I don't go with your system I am going to drop about $400 on a SDS EIC and a bit more on a MSD BTM. I would like to have fully programable engine manegment but i'm not going to spend a $1000 for it.

[Sean]

well the gm ecm setup is under a $1000. about $650 in the last group buy plus shipping.

[4sillypwr]

sweet. I could just come pick it up. i live a couple hours away.

[Justin86]

Yea it sucks being is college. I'm trying to put on a 89 intake and then do a rear and front disc brake swap in a weeks time and go to school. The money disapears real fast.

[4sillypwr]

Please do it. I'm sure there is enough interest

[Sean]

for the DIS i have had to make to many specialized parts. i will be putting a MAF with distributor how to up for the n/a guys/

[Gregg86DX]

Originally posted by Sean
for the DIS i have had to make to many specialized parts. i will be putting a MAF with distributor how to up for the n/a guys/

I would be very interested in this since I am in the process of converting to FI to support my B20A swap. I'd rather use the GM ECU than try to make a USDM ECU work with the B20A.

Gregg

[jordans045]

Can I, install the turbo kit, in my accord LX???
I want to know if I have to do the injection conversion, if I want to have turbo, or someone know if I can with the carburetion system???
Thanx.

[1989 DX R]

You need to do the injection conversion. He has a setup that will convert to a GM ECM with a fully programmable fuel map.

[Sean]

Ok folks here the new turbo kits manifold. in the most basic of basic kits we will include jsut a manifold and the front mount bracket. I Will have pricing by the end of today for these 2 peices. We will also be pricing up other levels of kits as people request.

for the moment enjoy the Pictures !!!

[Coroncho80]

Here they're;


http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/441000-441999/441985_68_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/441000-441999/441985_69_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/441000-441999/441985_70_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/441000-441999/441985_71_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/441000-441999/441985_72_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/441000-441999/441985_73_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/441000-441999/441985_74_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/441000-441999/441985_75_full.jpg

[Sean]

$450 for the manifold
$50 for the front mount bracket

Custom exhuast aviable in 2.5-3 inch diameters. FMIC and SMIC comming soon. charge pipes for intercoolers are avaiable now. Contact for more info.


[email protected].

[AccordEpicenter]

OMG its gorgeous.... Can u get it with an external wg option?

[Sean]

yes if youd like and external wastegate we can do that.

[A20A1]

It's good to see you got rid of the kinks that the log style had... I still have a few kinks of my own to work out for my next 4-1 header design. Keep up the good work.

[G Man89]

I know this is an old post, but I was wondering the same thing.

[NXRacer]

old post, but i'm still wondering myself. I've been talking to a guy who's pretty knowledgeable about honda ECU's and turbos and he said that the stock MAP sensor can handle up to 2 bars of boost (or 9psi). all the other timing and ignition issues can be handled by an MSD EMS. But those are kinda spendy. From what i gathered, justin was using the stock ECU since he wasnt boosting much (6lbs i think).

[86dxAccord]

I read somewhere here that somebody has an OBD-1 Accord. A true OBD conversion is extensive. Most swapped cars are not converted, just kinda adapted into obd-1. The wire harneses are integraded..

[NXRacer]

Matt was converting his to OBD-1 for the GS-R motor that was going in.

[bobafett]

that looks awesome! if we could just get rid of all the damn clutter in the engine bay! :(

man im looking forward to a nice external WG and fmic ;) i need another job!

[Sabz5150]

Any OBD-0 performance chip can fit the 3g?!?!?! Tell me you are serious! I'd plunk the cash for an ECU to chip tomorrow :)

[NXRacer]

i dont think the chips will work because our ECU is different then say the civics ecu's but you can reprogram the stock ecu and chip it. If you can program chips and burn em you can do anything. the pgmfi forum has TONS of info and a lot knowledgeable people. thats stuff is SUPER complicated to understand.

[Sabz5150]

Sounds like it's time to buy a rom burner.

(Piggy bank is sweating bullets)

[NXRacer]

i tried reading up on that stuff on http://www.pgmfi.org and i got a headache just reading the intro stuff.......

[MoonScryer]

Droolishly beautiful dude. Wish I could run in the car now. It was a hoot last time :D

[AccordEpicenter]

how much more is the ext wg option>?

[Sean]

none as far as i know. maybe at the worst $25 for the flange

[hkplayer]

Oh man am I an amateur...am I supposed to be looking at the welded dual pipes?

[4sillypwr]

yep the welded pipes are what you should be looking at. That is the turbo manifold.

Sean is that AC I see in there? Wow. I can't wait to see this in person.

-David

[blazin3gen]

damn sean!

[DeathRat]

Nice work.....:super:
Not to sound stupid, but is that still a A20A1 engine too? Also do you have any "estimated" dyno specs before & after the turbo addition? Did you get the manifold "Flow Tested" ?

[Vinny]

OK here we go, Seans done the work and posted some prices for eveyone whos been doing the "how much how much how much" thing. This is THE performance mod, hell with swaps and the like, its truely the bst bang for the buck. $$ for $$ its the way to go. I've ridden in Seans car with the boost turned down to about 10 and its wicked fat. Flat out walked a newer prelude by the end of the intersection. Now if he's gettin an extra 20 horse out of this new manifold............... DAMN that things flyin

[wprocomp]

sweet man...yeah that manifold looks much better...have you looked into getting it ceramic coated at all?I have seen better cooling results with it on the manifold

[Sean]

its alrady stainless stell. but it would be around $150 for ceramic coating inside and out polished to. the thing with ceramic is that it will dull down .

[Justin86]

Man I love that design on manifold. Maybe a bigger manifold and have it polished would be perfect and like Boba said another job. :)

[Sean]

guys this is my cost on these manifolds $0 mark up.

[DeathRat]

Originally posted by Sean
guys this is my cost on these manifolds $0 mark up.
I understand that Sean....But what about my questions?

Originally posted by DeathRat
Nice work.....:super:
Not to sound stupid, but is that still a A20A1 engine too? Also do you have any "estimated" dyno specs before & after the turbo addition? Did you get the manifold "Flow Tested" ?
Reason being I may consider THIS option over an engine swap.

[Sean]

Originally posted by DeathRat
Nice work.....:super:
Not to sound stupid, but is that still a A20A1 engine too? Also do you have any "estimated" dyno specs before & after the turbo addition? Did you get the manifold "Flow Tested" ?

Well with the GM ecm kit this manifold and a 50 trim dodge t3 garret turbo ive made 225whp at 13psi of boost. so thats what it take to make that sort of power. I highly doubt youd be able to make that sort of power IE with a log or with the factory EFI. hence the reason ive gone to all the trouble of creating the after market for these cars.

The manifold has never been put on a flow bench quite frankely becuase its 1 1/2 ID tubbing. ive tunned a few GN's that made 900hp with 1 1/2 tubbing. if there is a restriction its the exhuast housing on the turbo.

[DeathRat]

Thanx for the answers Sean....
Another question for you though.....
What about running a Dual Weber set up with this turbo? Think it would create larger horsepower over a EFI set up? I've got a Carbed A20A1 right now & want to stay Carburated if at all possible. I was thinking along the lines of an A18 'Lude Head (ported, polished & flow tested); Custom Intake with Dual Weber Carbs; while keeping my A20A1 block. If I could get this Turbo to work as well & maybe some NOS too, well that should create enough HP to keep me happy for a short while....:super:

[Sean]

Thanx for the answers Sean....

Carbs turbo to much work to bother with if you ask me. plus it wont run right. then there timming issues etc. for all that headache 4-5 hrs would have my ecm kit installed and running.

[Sean]

Yes i say. this week we introduced the new turbo manfiold and the front motor mount bracket. over the course of the next few weeks we will adding an FMIC and SMIC and full exhuast systems. These headers etc are avaiable now. so order up its been a 2yr process to get this far.

http://209.151.81.66/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26922

all the info is in that thread and i will keep updating it with new products etc.

[K-MOD]

How come the chart stops at 4800, what RPM do you run your car to? Is this the chart for your car at 10lbs or 6lbs. I see that at 10lbs(170kpa) your running 16.9 degrees @4800rpm, do you keep it there or do you pull out more timing as you rev. towards redline? On my car w/ a 100shot ,I run a max of 17degees, but thats with 8.8 compression and an alchohol/gas(94 Octane) mix in the tank. What type of fuel do you use when your running your car at 10lbs w/o an intercooler, and 17degrees timing?