Project , Gm Ecm Kit / Turbo Kit

[smufguy]

sean told me this in one of his e-mails if this helps you decide.

" At 5psi of boost on a t3/t4 turbo with my head and a ported stock intake i recently ran a 14.3 at 97mph in the 1/4 mile at milan dragways in michigan. So that says bundles about the potential of the head."

what trim was that t3/t4?

[Sean]

to4e compressor housing with a 57 trim compressor wheel running a stage 3 turbine wheel and a .48 a/r turbine housing. My gut tell me i could drop 2-3 tenths and use the same amount of boost going to a .63 a/r turbine housing with the same stage3 wheel. Either way the car is seriously detuned.

As for being slow. try managing a humoungus move, a 70hr a week job and doing this shit on the side along with keep 3 old accords running at any one given moment and finding time to do r&d work. I did however find an IAC housing for you. So were off toi the race. time to find the tap and ship this thing out. I cant wiat till i can expand to more of a pats business for other vehicles so i can concentrate soley on 3g stuff for r&d and blow this day job out my ass. that would really help.

Other issues im dealing with is Diamond piston ( they make a great prudct. ) but there customer service dealings with me have made me want to pull my fucking hiar out. The nice part however is that i can drive over there to the engineering department show them new combustion chamber shapes etc and when we can put something together ( like my current motor in my car) it makes sicks ass power.

The head is the results of 6 months of r&d and ive been told theres is no way to get more flow ( by many of the best in the industry) without going to larger valves. But to put this into perspective we are just a tad under what the best ported b16 etc heads on teh market are flowing so the potential is there.

Its not a lack of motivation its a lack of time and energy at this point.

I am definately going to be increasing my ldeas time.

Also to hurry up product delivery we are curently putting the head into cnc development for a paltry cost $3000 out of my pocket. all the money you guys spend goes right back into r&d. Im not making any money at all. I pretty much sell everything at cost. Its more a labor of love the profitable enterpise ast the moment becuase the volume isnt there.

enough rambling back to wok i go.

Sincerly
Sean

[Justin86]

If you buy from Sean, I'm sure you will get a good product, but you better give him like 2 months to send you your shit. I paid him on may 3rd and I know it will be at least another 2 weeks before I get the ecm. Instead of having the parts on a shelf ready to be sent out, his website has core charges posted for parts he can't actually get, and he sends out parts to be modified after you send them to him. Sean needs to charge more money so he actually has an incentive to get this shit done (he has been "working" on my idle control for 2 weeks) and so he can afford to have the already modified parts in stock, instead of lagging and then telling me do I realize how he's not making any money off this shit...As far as K-mod, that guy pissed me off by telling me that any fuel injected car has computer controlled timing, which the 3g does not, and also he says he does not use knock control for any turbo engines. So the guy is selling parts that alter ignition timing maps that he hasn't even installed on the accord, (?!) and boosting without knock control is how I shattered a piston (!)

I know how you feel Sean as for being over worked. Not having time makes it harder to get you side stuff done (car stuff) which makes it even harder to have a inventor of parts. Pretty much guys Sean does not have a full out business here, just a part time, custom fab set up going. I'm going to school, working and try to find time to make strut bars and other projects I have in the planing. It's not fun, I never have time to go and hang-out with my friends and a g/f is allmost out of the question. You have to understand that what products Sean, K-Mod, I, and others do, we are making giving up our leasure time not for our greed but to help out the fellow 3G tuners. So it may take 2-4 weeks maybe more to get you product, but quality takes time and if you think you can do better then give it a try and stop bitching.

[Robs89LXi]

I agree that having a full time job, family etc. takes up a lot of time, and leaves little for messing with our cars. If you have all that though, and still want to run a side business, then you need to make your customers aware of that up front. I ordered Diamond pistons from Sean three months ago, and supposedly, they are just now being sent in the mail (still haven't gotten a tracking number, Sean). While his products may be good, if you are going to order from Sean, be prepared for a long turnaround time.

[unc25]

wow I think this is the first topic that i have started that went two pages!! Woot-woot!

Again guys thanx for all of the responses especially from sean. K-mod doesnt seem to have a representative to post huh? Or maybe they just dont care? either way thanx guys.

[Sean]

well rob suffered from alot of development issues. engineering department put his pistons on hold sevral time instead of calling me i was working and busy trying to accomplish other things and then id be like WTF happened to those pistons and theyd need a new measurement. Its a big cluster fuck and ROb i am very sorry. Also i sent you mail. there a problem with a your zipcode.

[speedpenguin]

how far is michigan from MD
i'm planning a road trip this summer
since i'm going turbo eventually i'd like to see your stuff

[Robs89LXi]

Yeah, my bad. I should have mentioned that Diamond held things up tremendeously. Sean, I've replied with the zip.

[Accordtheory]

I know how you feel Sean as for being over worked. Not having time makes it harder to get you side stuff done (car stuff) which makes it even harder to have a inventor of parts. Pretty much guys Sean does not have a full out business here, just a part time, custom fab set up going. I'm going to school, working and try to find time to make strut bars and other projects I have in the planing. It's not fun, I never have time to go and hang-out with my friends and a g/f is allmost out of the question. You have to understand that what products Sean, K-Mod, I, and others do, we are making giving up our leasure time not for our greed but to help out the fellow 3G tuners. So it may take 2-4 weeks maybe more to get you product, but quality takes time and if you think you can do better then give it a try and stop bitching.
Whatever, I'm not even "bitching". Don't try to put yourself in a different category than me and then tell me what I need to understand. I already know how it is. The ecm is the only part of the car I haven't done myself, and this kind of shit is one of the reasons why I prefer to do everything myself. I do know what it is like helping out people that I know just for their sake, I help my friends work on their cars and build shit for my friends all the time. I'm just pissed because I can't drive my car, and I'm saying that Sean should be more up front about how long this shit is going to take, because the accord is my only car right now, and he keeps telling me like another 2 weeks, and now I haven't driven my car in 2 months.

[smufguy]

this is a post bwt justin and accordtheory.

Justin, i have to disagree with you and side with accordtheory. The reason being, all comes down the business and customer service. Do i wanna wait for 40 years after paying a huge sum of money? No, I dont. I dont wanna be an ass but customer service sucks. Not everyone on the board is happy with the way Sean's business is conducted. Its agreeable that He has devoted soo much time into getting this turbo for the accord thing going on. There has been post after posts that ppl have written in appriciation for this. But like i said, not everything is perfect. I wanted to go with Sean's turbo kit and ECM kit from the begining, i was soo excited that i started asking him questions about it so that i can clearly understand what i was getting. I was not satisfied and thus im getting this on my own. Sad deal, but have to suck it up :(

[86LXItooFAST4me]

i think yall arent giving the guy a break here, you gotta think he is like a 1 maybe 2 man buseniss trying to do how many jobs at once? i dont remember anywere in his webpage or in any of his emails on how long its going to take because he doesnt know either. another point i have is that his services are for performance and this is something you dont have to have. therefore why get mad because you put your car down to and for pleasures. i mean im not jumping on anyones side, i just dont agree with yalls statements. his work is also very well priced, have you ever went to a local shop and asked them how much it would cost and even if they are familier with these engines? id rather have a guy that cost less and is more knowledgable about our engine abilites and wait just a little longer. just my thoughts guys, and im :bong: lol

PS i also say this because Seans had my Head and Intake since the beginning of May. but i understand bro, keep rockin!

[smufguy]

nobody is condeming him. Its just some people like his business, some dont. Some people want things done when they pay that kinda money, and some dont mind the wait. but its all upto the individual. Thats how i see it and thats why im not in his way or up his ass waiting or bugging him about parts i ordered from him. its a choice everyone has to make and some have made em already. i might have thrown u off track, but you get the point.

[Sean]

if your not happy ill just give you your money back and get you out of my hair. you wanted custom idle control parts for an intake i dont recomend using. If this was a stock 86-89 accord intake i would have shipped this thing weeks ago. i had to wait till the end of last months to get the idle air bypass from you after you broke 2 of them trying to do it yourself. What about the 3 weeks to get s distributor here ??? all this from the time the order was placed. in all reality ive had about 2 weeks to build you a custom part and your bitching about paying $70 for an off the shelf Accel part ??

you think bridgeport time is free??

[Sean]

I agree that having a full time job, family etc. takes up a lot of time, and leaves little for messing with our cars. If you have all that though, and still want to run a side business, then you need to make your customers aware of that up front. I ordered Diamond pistons from Sean three months ago, and supposedly, they are just now being sent in the mail (still haven't gotten a tracking number, Sean). While his products may be good, if you are going to order from Sean, be prepared for a long turnaround time.

ROb ive told you numerous times how sory i am about the wait for your pistons. Ive pushed and pushed and pushed to get them done. You unfortunatley got heeld up by a new shop foreman who can figure out how to make a god damn copy of a stock pistons. No body is more fustrated then i am by this. Pistons are a call it in pick it up ship it item. Thats it. Ive made 6 trips to diamond to get every little freaking tidbit of bullshit info to them to get your order done. am i asking for anything in return no im not. Sooner or later somebody had to build complete blueprints for this engine and in the process of doing your piston order thats what transpired. I will post the job number as

#18604 if you contact diamond with that job number they will build you clones.

8.5:1 0.032 overbore moly rings stock wrist pin size with a compression ring support.

thats all i can offer up guys.

[Accordtheory]

if your not happy ill just give you your money back and get you out of my hair. you wanted custom idle control parts for an intake i dont recomend using. If this was a stock 86-89 accord intake i would have shipped this thing weeks ago. i had to wait till the end of last months to get the idle air bypass from you after you broke 2 of them trying to do it yourself. What about the 3 weeks to get s distributor here ??? all this from the time the order was placed. in all reality ive had about 2 weeks to build you a custom part and your bitching about paying $70 for an off the shelf Accel part ??

you think bridgeport time is free??
I don't want my money back. I want my CAR back. If you refund my money, that just screws both of us even more. If you told me how much a hassle it would be for you to make the idle control, I would have just done it myself. I can also make the harness myself, all I need is the connector for the ecm. Why don't you just send me the shit that you have now, the modified distributor, and the ecm with the chip, and some simple instructions like a wiring diagram. I will put it all together, this bullshit will be completely resolved, and we won't have any reason to be pissed at each other.

[86LXItooFAST4me]

man if i was sean i would just send your shit back to you and a refund and wouldnt give you shit, lol.

[unc25]

no kidding....Yeah let Sean send you the instructoins on how to do it. :thumbdown If you can do it yourself, then why didnt you just do it to begin with? :dunno:

I have never dealt with Sean, but from what I hear and read about this guy knows what he is doing and everything is well worth the wait. If I get blessed with a damn Fuel injected 3g, Sean should expect to hear from me.

[Robs89LXi]

I'm about to throw up reading all this ass kissing. Are you guys expecting to get some free stuff or something? I mean.. daaaaaaayyyyuuuuuuummmmmmm!!!! :)
Hey,Sean. No problem, dude. Apologies already accepted and like I said, no sweat. I know Diamond was the hold up on my pistons, and I don't blame you for that. All I was saying is that if I had known it was going to be so long, I would not have pulled my engine so soon. Of course, how could you have known either? I appreciate the hard work you've done and am looking forward to getting the damn things so I can get my engine back together. By the way, please let me know if you ever figure out a way to make your ECM smog legal, as I am not having a lot of luck so far with finding another solution. I'm exploring using another Honda ECM, maybe even a complete OBD-0 to OBD-1 conversion so I can rechip, but again, it is slow progress.
Thanks.

[Sean]

rob im looking into a few other EFI setups like the mega squirt. pending permission. ill do a mega squirt write up and how to and you guys can build your selves EFI on the really cheap end of things.

Again i am extremly sory for the wiating. Your pistons are on the way. i have to find the tracking number in the wifes car but thelly be there saturday morning for sure.

[86LXItooFAST4me]

I'm about to throw up reading all this ass kissing. Are you guys expecting to get some free stuff or something? I mean.. daaaaaaayyyyuuuuuuummmmmmm!!!! :)Thanks.


... i mean im not jumping on anyones side, i just dont agree with yalls statements...

[Robs89LXi]

LOL. Hey man, it's all just in good fun. Don't take anything I say too seriously. Serious.

[Sean]

rob i got the spec sheet on your pistons. well at least my copy of the invoice.

hasting total seal rings ( not the gapless ones) bling $140 ring set.

and 4 custom machined pistons.

BTW the big notches are for the exhuast side i labeled them prior to shipping them FYI. diamond labeled them backwadws but engineering has been notified for future orders that they are wrong so it will be corrected on every new set. when you see F on the pistons think flywheel.

[Robs89LXi]

Sean, send me a copy of the spec sheet, please.
Rings: Wow! Cool! Ouch ($)!
"4 custom machined pistons"... I like how that sounds :rofl: .
Did not mentions wrist pins, but I'm sure included, right?
Thanks for the note about the labeling. I'll be sure to pass that on to my machinist.

About the megasquirt thing, isn't that basically a glorified S-AFC? I read a small amount on it, and if does sound nice for what it does (and of course the price), but is it enough for boost? What about spark timing?

[Accordtheory]

man if i was sean i would just send your shit back to you and a refund and wouldnt give you shit, lol.
Then you're just not thinking about it enough. Sean has already invested time into building my harness, modifying my distributor, etc, why would he want to just throw away money? Would saving your slightly wounded ego be worth $550 or whatever + all that time to you?

[86LXItooFAST4me]

Then you're just not thinking about it enough. Sean has already invested time into building my harness, modifying my distributor, etc, why would he want to just throw away money? Would saving your slightly wounded ego be worth $550 or whatever + all that time to you?


lol, man whatever. i was just saying that you should expect a wait from a one man shop doing CUSTOM work. but im not posting in this thread anymore, i was just stating an opinion. later peeps!

[4sillypwr]

well shit this got interesting.

-David

[speedpenguin]

imo
it's worth the wait. but yea if you don't want to wait, go somewhere else where people don't know wtf they are doing. or do it yourself if you can, i wish i could.

[unc25]

yay my topic went 3 pages woot-woot!!! And people are arguing in it yay!

Mods: close this topic I got all the info I need form it...

[Robs89LXi]

LOL!!! :lol:

[geesnow]

are you trying to sell thesem kits?? interested in one let me know

[Sean]

ECM part number is 1228708

connector function wire color
A1 IAC "a" high blu/wht
A2 IAC "b" low grn/blk
A7 IAC "a" low blue/blk
A8 IAC "b" high grn/wht
A9 Coolant fan relay
A11 Wastegate contol
A22 ECM gound blk

B1 Check Engine Light tn/wht
B5 ALDL SERIAL Orange/ pin M @ALDL
B10 Ignition Run/Start Red

C1 +BATT Orange
C3 Bst/Bypass tn/blk
C4 Mat tan
C5 Sensor ground black
C7 +5v REF gray
C9 EST white
C10 sensor ground black
C12 +5 v REF gray
C15 TPS drk blu
C16 CTS yellow
C22 MAP green

D1 Jumper to D5 inj sense [p/h 4 cyl] blue
D4 Jumper to D8 inj sense [p/h 4 cyl] tan
D7 Fuel pump relay grn/wht
D9 Inj 1@4 lt blue
D12 Ing module ground blk/ed
D12 ECM ground black
D13 REF pulse ing module ppl/wht
D14 Inj drive 2@3 lgt green
D16 + BAT orange
D19 ALDL ground blc/wht
D21 ECM ground black


anyways folks there it is. a pinout that makes a commonly avaiable ECM work. you can find these ECM in 89-93 pontiac grans ams with a 2.3 dohc quad 4 also any other w body with a undehood ECM of a simila models yrs should have the same ECM.

dohc quad 4 2.3 underhood ECM in pontiac buick and oldmobile vehicles.

[Sean]

for parts to chip this ECM goto www.moates.net get a Memcal adpater. for software do a websearch for tunerpro. i cant attach the bin files ill get jay to host them on accord central..

For an ignition module youll use a 1987-92 chevy camaro. also will work is the TBI fullsize chevy truck with TBI from 1987-95.get the pigtials.

for the Idle air control. gut the Rear cold idle bypass housing. the use a beretta from like 1990 on it has the correct pgitail and with a smear of silicone around the edge is a drop into the housing and work perfect.

to modify the distributor.

disasemble it and have the advance mechanism welded together to prevent it from moving. also you must use an early external ignitor distributor. the one with the cap with the flat back not the round cap.

to keep balance problems to a minimum you must make sure to not only weld them in the same posistion but actually have it tig welded using no filler rod. this way there is not a wieght change. ill try to add more to this when i get some time.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Wow, thanks man... i'm glad you decided to post this... so is it just a plug in and go type of ordeal? If so i have someone who can tune this ECM for me, and these pinouts will really help i think... thanks man/

[deevergote]

Awesome, thanks Sean!

I have no idea what any of that means at the moment, but at least I have something to work towards!

Can anyone direct me to a website, or even a book, where I can learn what I need to know to modify an ECU like that?

[Accordtheory]

Well, there is a lot more involved than looking at the pinout and connecting everything..I still have a some questions.
First, about the ignition. How do you set the timing, (how many degrees?) and how do you connect the coil? Are the only connections to the coil the 2 wires from the ignition module and the tach wire? Will the tach still work?

About the sensors: I looked up the MAT sensor a couple different places, and they looked different. Is the right sensor the one that isn't threaded, has the exposed element, and connects to the air filter box? Does this sensor have to be specifically from a turbo gm car?

About the wiring in general: First, why are there so many ground wires? Do I just connect them all together and ground them at the same point? Also, there are these 2 orange wires labeled "+ BAT" on one side of the tape and "switch with relay" on the other side. Do I connect those wires to the same thing that I should connect to the red wire labeled "key on run and start ignition coil hot" to? Just a relay triggered by an ignition hot wire? And as far as the one fat red wire labeled BAT, I assume I should put some kind of fuse inline, what amperage?

There is a wire labeled "check engine light". When this wire is triggering the light, is it connecting to ground, or putting out +12V?

What is up with the wastegate control wire?

Thanks

[Sean]

Well, there is a lot more involved than looking at the pinout and connecting everything..I still have a some questions.
First, about the ignition. How do you set the timing, (how many degrees?) and how do you connect the coil? Are the only connections to the coil the 2 wires from the ignition module and the tach wire? Will the tach still work?

ok to set the timming there is a wire tan/blk that is labeled timing bypass. disconnect that connector and set timming to 5*btdc. then your base timming is set. tach will still work if it is connected to the white wire - on the coil. i had no idea what type of coil or where your coil was so i sent bare pigtials. glad to see you got the package !.


About the sensors: I looked up the MAT sensor a couple different places, and they looked different. Is the right sensor the one that isn't threaded, has the exposed element, and connects to the air filter box? Does this sensor have to be specifically from a turbo gm car?


the manifold air temp sensor need to be between the turbo and the throttle body. the ECM will retard timming or advance timming based on the charge temp. it is also critical in the fuel calculation. i usually use a threaded sensor in the charge pipe 1/8 or 1/4 npt tap. btw the GM temp sensor will thread right into your wtaer neck. perferably the sensor should come from a turbo sunbird. just to ensure it has the correct impedence to tempature function but typically speaking any GM IAT should work.



About the wiring in general: First, why are there so many ground wires? ?

to ensure that there are redundent ground to keep the voltage stable they all need to go to the bat - terminal. ?


Do I just connect them all together and ground them at the same point?

yes



Also, there are these 2 orange wires labeled "+ BAT" on one side of the tape and "switch with relay" on the other side. Do I connect those wires to the same thing that I should connect to the red wire labeled "key on run and start ignition coil hot" to? ?


yes you can do that if you want to the 2 orange wire are the + feed for the injectors. as for the key on run wire it should goto the same place as the + switch for the coil.



Just a relay triggered by an ignition hot wire??

yes basically.



And as far as the one fat red wire labeled BAT, I assume I should put some kind of fuse inline, what amperage?
??


yeah set that up with a 15 amp fuse. again i cant know how everyone is setting up there engine bay these days.


There is a wire labeled "check engine light". When this wire is triggering the light, is it connecting to ground, or putting out +12V???

all switched output on GM ecms are - side switching. basically the ECM will supply the ground for any given device. this si done to reduce switching feed back and reduce the stress on the transistor.

as for the check engine light etc yes they will all be supplied with - but your existing check engine lamp in teh dash is wired the same way,




What is up with the wastegate control wire????

well GM had there wastgate control use a PWM seleniod. it was extremly effective. if you opt to run a manual boost controller then feel free to remove that pin.





Thanks


lets keep this conversation here so other people can follow along and learn.

[deevergote]

lets keep this conversation here so other people can follow along and learn.
Please! :lol:

[Accordtheory]

The map and mat sensor connectors don't plug in...and the sensors are for the 88 sunbird gt turbo. So, what car other than the turbo pontiac can I get the connectors from?

[Sean]

The map and mat sensor connectors don't plug in...and the sensors are for the 88 sunbird gt turbo. So, what car other than the turbo pontiac can I get the connectors from?


something doesnt seem right here. what are the part #'s your using and where did you source the sensors from ?? i test fitted all those plugs on those sensors. the map however could be the wrong connector plug ? is there a slit on the center pin ??? i could have put the wrong case on by accident i have like 50 of those stupid plugs around. if there isnt a slit on the center pin look inside of the actual MAP sensor and find out which side the slit is on and add a slit to the plug. i was pretty sure i checked it on a 2bar map. as for the IAT you shouldnt have any troubles with it. if you do try an IAT from a different GM vehicle. is the plug the same shape ? ?? ? ? that plug fit the IAT on all 3 of my GM ecm equiped 3g;s and there all running different IAt's.

[Accordtheory]

Yeah, I tried to make a slit in the plug, but I was too tired and fucked up the plug..then I realized that the map sensor has a removable insert that matches the plug, and I could have just swapped it with my other map sensor. Now I have to go get another plug, no big deal I guess.

The intake air temp sensor is a Niehoff part #TS83631. You can look it up on partsamerica.com under air cleaner temp sensor/air charge temp sensor. The CTS and MAT plugs you sent me are the same shape, but the MAT sensor is more oval than the CTS, and therefore doesn't fit.

Also, as far as the ignition module/ignitor thing, I am assuming that I should connect it to a heat sink of some sort, what type/how big does this need to be? Doesn't gm normally put these on the intake manifold?

Thanks

[Sean]

Yeah, I tried to make a slit in the plug, but I was too tired and fucked up the plug..then I realized that the map sensor has a removable insert that matches the plug, and I could have just swapped it with my other map sensor. Now I have to go get another plug, no big deal I guess.

The intake air temp sensor is a Niehoff part #TS83631. You can look it up on partsamerica.com under air cleaner temp sensor/air charge temp sensor. The CTS and MAT plugs you sent me are the same shape, but the MAT sensor is more oval than the CTS, and therefore doesn't fit.

Also, as far as the ignition module/ignitor thing, I am assuming that I should connect it to a heat sink of some sort, what type/how big does this need to be? Doesn't gm normally put these on the intake manifold?

Thanks

hmm the IAT just swap it with a different pigtial. seems odd that we are having this issue. i test fitted it on my IAT's but i cant find a cross number so i geuss the easy way to fix it is to just change the pigtial. dont worry about matching the wire color on the IAT. its just a ground resistor so even if you were to change the actuall polarity it wouldnt matter one bit. for the map if the plug i sent doesnt fit then swap it with the correct plug. im gonna work up a parts cross ref for the sensors to aviod this confusion in the future.

also what would be worthwhile is keeping this up in the forum so we can debug this whole thing.

as for the chips. the chip i put in the ecm as of right now should run your car. if not change the fuel pressure a bit to get it right. the idle AFR is 13.6:1 i know it seems a bit rich but the engines idle so much smoother. so if you trying to get the fuel mix right just grab a wide band set the idle AFR to 13.6:1 and it should put you right on target. we can go over this in more detial onces things are running. also the tune in the ECM is setup to run openloop so the oxygen sensor doesnt need to be hooked up but for
datalogging.

[Accordtheory]

ok wiring is done, car won't fucking start. I would try to connect the ecm to my laptop, but the aldl adapter doesn't connect to my laptop. I have no idea what kind of connector is on the adapter, but my laptop doesn't have anything like it. I am tired, the day is done, and I don't feel like seeing if the ecm is triggering the spark or injectors, but I know it isn't grounding the wire to the fuel pump relay when trying to start. I suspect it isn't getting an rpm signal somehow. ???

[Sean]

email me some picture of the setup and let me see if anything is missing.

[email protected]

you might want to make sure that the ECM is getting a hot signal.wire up a bulb to the check engine light wire and see if it blinks or stays steady or if it even lights up at all.

[Sean]

ok wiring is done, car won't fucking start. I would try to connect the ecm to my laptop, but the aldl adapter doesn't connect to my laptop. I have no idea what kind of connector is on the adapter, but my laptop doesn't have anything like it. I am tired, the day is done, and I don't feel like seeing if the ecm is triggering the spark or injectors, but I know it isn't grounding the wire to the fuel pump relay when trying to start. I suspect it isn't getting an rpm signal somehow. ???

it uses a usb cable. there should have been an adapter + a molded ALDL cable a little black box in your kit.documentation

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=49

for the software for the USB driver for the aldl cable.

http://www.moates.net/documentation.php?documentation_id=15

www.moates.net has all the info on you aldl adapter as well. i must not have included that in the info sheet i sent.

[Accordtheory]

I figured out a couple reasons why the car wouldn't start. I did not have power connected to the ignition module. I thought that it recieved power from the ecm, instead of the + wire going to the coil. The ecm still doesn't ground the fuel pump wire! It also idles at like 4100 rpm, because the AIC isn't working. It's fully open. With a jumper wire to the fuel pump ground and my blockoff plate on the AIC ports, I can get the car to run at a somewhat normal idle. I hacked into one of the wires under the relay box for the the cooling fan, and it works properly, nice. However, I have the annoying problem of my electrical system being at 16 volts. I have no idea why, because my honda ecm should still be controlling the alternator.
The aldl is connected to 2 of the map wires so I have the plug inside the car. The fuel pump relay ground is connected to the egr soleniod wire which is connected to A6 on the honda ecm. When I ground the wire at the connection to the gm ecm, the fuel pump comes on, so I know the connection is legit. Also, since there are 2 factory connections at the honda ecm for the fuel pump, the honda ecm still triggers it for 2 seconds when you turn on the ignition. The check engine ground is connected to the white map wire which is connected to the check engine light at the honda ecm plug. The check engine light appears to function normally.
So now, I have to figure out why my fuel pump ground isn't working, why my IAC is making this little ticking sound and staying fully open, and why my stupid alternator is putting out 16 volts.

[Accordtheory]

it uses a usb cable. there should have been an adapter + a molded ALDL cable a little black box in your kit.documentation

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=49

for the software for the USB driver for the aldl cable.

http://www.moates.net/documentation.php?documentation_id=15

www.moates.net has all the info on you aldl adapter as well. i must not have included that in the info sheet i sent.

Yeah, thanks for sending that shit. My laptop's usb port is a different style plug though, it's thinner and wider. Hopefully I can get an adapter, and get it to work somehow.

[thegreatdane]

I dont think the ecu controls the output voltage of the alternator. It should do that itself in the voltage regulator which sits in the alternator.

[PhydeauX]

Yeah, thanks for sending that shit. My laptop's usb port is a different style plug though, it's thinner and wider. Hopefully I can get an adapter, and get it to work somehow.

Maybe you've got the wrong cable. It should be the squared off usb connector on the site that plugs into the aldl box and the flat standard one on the other end. You can pick those cables up just about anywhere that sells computer supplies.

andy

[Accordtheory]

Another thing.. Shouldn't the check engine light come on when I unplug the IAC? It doesn't.

[dillirk]

Can we get this sticky?

I plan to do this to my sei but it won't be untill after I find a way to pay for my wedding.

Would this be able to run an extra set of injectors for water injection that worked as a % of the fuel inj? or would I have to change the fet thingy to run 8 inj and have a separate map for them?

Thanks and keep up the good work.

[Sean]

I figured out a couple reasons why the car wouldn't start. I did not have power connected to the ignition module. I thought that it recieved power from the ecm, instead of the + wire going to the coil. The ecm still doesn't ground the fuel pump wire! It also idles at like 4100 rpm, because the AIC isn't working. It's fully open. With a jumper wire to the fuel pump ground and my blockoff plate on the AIC ports, I can get the car to run at a somewhat normal idle. I hacked into one of the wires under the relay box for the the cooling fan, and it works properly, nice. However, I have the annoying problem of my electrical system being at 16 volts. I have no idea why, because my honda ecm should still be controlling the alternator.
The aldl is connected to 2 of the map wires so I have the plug inside the car. The fuel pump relay ground is connected to the egr soleniod wire which is connected to A6 on the honda ecm. When I ground the wire at the connection to the gm ecm, the fuel pump comes on, so I know the connection is legit. Also, since there are 2 factory connections at the honda ecm for the fuel pump, the honda ecm still triggers it for 2 seconds when you turn on the ignition. The check engine ground is connected to the white map wire which is connected to the check engine light at the honda ecm plug. The check engine light appears to function normally.
So now, I have to figure out why my fuel pump ground isn't working, why my IAC is making this little ticking sound and staying fully open, and why my stupid alternator is putting out 16 volts.

hmmm i wonder if the IAC is going in reverse. ooh shit did i send you the older style IAC that has the big square 4 pin plug ?? if i did goto the ECM and reverse the pin order. there are 2 greens and 2 blues. reverse the colors keep the polarity the same. i tottally forgot about the older IACs running in reverse. this one is clearly my fualt. rorik im sorry i fucked up.

this is the current aragangement


A1 IAC "a" high blu/wht
A2 IAC "b" low grn/blk
A7 IAC "a" low blue/blk
A8 IAC "b" high grn/wht

this is the arrangement you need.
A1 IAC "b" high grn/wht
A2 IAC "a" low blue/blk
A7 IAC "b" low grn/blk
A8 IAC "a" high blu/wht

the ECM is trying to close the IAC but the older style IAC's which im not used to working with have a reverse polarity. so instread of closing its opening. sorry about that ive just gotten used to the newer ones. you can remove the red clip off the back of the ecm connector a and pull the wires out of it with no problem. then just switch them around and you should be all set. if not hit me up via email.

hmm when i tested that ecm the fuel pump switching seemed to work fine. i wonder why its not working now. the GM ecm doesnt have to control it if you dont want it to. the honda ecm controlling the pump is fine as well. i usally rewire all my cars for high current pumps so the damn thing doesnt have to be used. i set my stuff up for a gaint aeromovtive pump and the priming never did seem to work right. if the honda ECM is doing the job klet it be.

as for the 16volt thing. my thinking is that the case ground for the stator plate on your alternator is most likely loose or the + feed to the alternator that measures the car voltage is most likely cut or not getting a good connection fooling the alternator into boosting the voltage.

as for the idle. once you get your laptop working and logging. adjust the base idle on the TB screw till the IAC counts hit around 20 or so. it will control the idle all on its own no problem. any surging etc ?

[Accordtheory]

Current problems: Car likes to stall, very annoying. It misses badly at idle, and acts like someone just pulled the coil wire when it stalls. The IAC is still not working, although it closes now, after I switched the wires. However, it does not work the way it is, because it never seals! I can easily blow air through it, probably more air than a 1/8" tube. The little tapered piece extends all the way, but it is not large enough in diameter and fits completely through the piece that it is supposed to seal against.. The result is that the car idles at around 2225 rpm (cold, too) when the thing is fully closed, with the idle screw on the Tb fully closed as well. I guess I will have to go reverse engineer one of these myself after looking at one assembled on a gm car. Not that big a deal I guess.

[Sean]

Current problems: Car likes to stall, very annoying. It misses badly at idle, and acts like someone just pulled the coil wire when it stalls. The IAC is still not working, although it closes now, after I switched the wires. However, it does not work the way it is, because it never seals! I can easily blow air through it, probably more air than a 1/8" tube. The little tapered piece extends all the way, but it is not large enough in diameter and fits completely through the piece that it is supposed to seal against.. The result is that the car idles at around 2225 rpm (cold, too) when the thing is fully closed, with the idle screw on the Tb fully closed as well. I guess I will have to go reverse engineer one of these myself after looking at one assembled on a gm car. Not that big a deal I guess.


whats your fuel pressure set at ? hmm i didnt have a car to run it on. as for the IAC itself. see if a flat rubber washer might fit in there. that should do the trick.

also describe the missfire.

[PhydeauX]

Hey sean, I wonder if that IAC trouble is the same issue I'm having with mine. It idles fine till it warms up then goes up to 2100+rpm. My IAC came off a 91 3.1l lumina.

andy

[Sean]

Hey sean, I wonder if that IAC trouble is the same issue I'm having with mine. It idles fine till it warms up then goes up to 2100+rpm. My IAC came off a 91 3.1l lumina.

andy
you have the flat 4 pin right ? if so then most likely that isnt your particular issue. with your car id check the TPS voltage and make sure the iac counts are super low.

[A20A1]

Okay I'll make it a sticky... so Sean you mean a TEC distributors (EFI/CARB)... since the hitatchi was the only one with the round cap.

[A20A1]

GM ECM PINOUT (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=38760)

[Sean]

Okay I'll make it a sticky... so Sean you mean a TEC distributors (EFI/CARB)... since the hitatchi was the only one with the round cap.


yes the TEC not the hitachi.

[Accordtheory]

Okay, how exactly are these gm IAC things supposed to work? I would assume that when the pintle thing is fully extended, the computer somehow knows this, and at that point, it seals completely, like a valve. I'll read up on this a little. I was about to start modifying the IAC, but my stupid engine started sounding like it was going to throw a rod out the side of the block (it was fine a couple days ago, WTF??). By the way, with chip#1, it idles rather lean. That might be why it's stalling..? My fuel press is stock. (drilled regulator to compensate for the walbro pump at idle)..it seems to run okay under boost, although I only dipped on it a little once, due to the ominous sounds coming from the bottom end. I've barely run it at all, I was scared to drive it to the gas station..hopefully I will have it back together soon

[Sean]

Okay, how exactly are these gm IAC things supposed to work? I would assume that when the pintle thing is fully extended, the computer somehow knows this, and at that point, it seals completely, like a valve. I'll read up on this a little. I was about to start modifying the IAC, but my stupid engine started sounding like it was going to throw a rod out the side of the block (it was fine a couple days ago, WTF??). By the way, with chip#1, it idles rather lean. That might be why it's stalling..? My fuel press is stock. (drilled regulator to compensate for the walbro pump at idle)..it seems to run okay under boost, although I only dipped on it a little once, due to the ominous sounds coming from the bottom end. I've barely run it at all, I was scared to drive it to the gas station..hopefully I will have it back together soon


yeah id adjust the fuel pressure up a few psi. i told you it was going to be very difficult to figure out how you intake,exhuast manifolds + turbin wheel and housing were going to intereact with those injectors.. thats why i sent 3 chips. but yes if its idiling lean it will surge and idle like shit.

[Sean]

Okay, how exactly are these gm IAC things supposed to work? I would assume that when the pintle thing is fully extended, the computer somehow knows this, and at that point, it seals completely, like a valve. I'll read up on this a little. I was about to start modifying the IAC, but my stupid engine started sounding like it was going to throw a rod out the side of the block (it was fine a couple days ago, WTF??). By the way, with chip#1, it idles rather lean. That might be why it's stalling..? My fuel press is stock. (drilled regulator to compensate for the walbro pump at idle)..it seems to run okay under boost, although I only dipped on it a little once, due to the ominous sounds coming from the bottom end. I've barely run it at all, I was scared to drive it to the gas station..hopefully I will have it back together soon


as for the iac. at key on the ECM fully retracts the iac 160steps. bascially it runs the IAC in all the way then assumes that as 0. as the pintle exteneds ( goes toward zero) the ecm will kep adjusting zero down until the idle drops. then it assume it has found zero. basically youll needf to adjust the base idle on the throttle body till yuo have the ecm saying the IAC is around 20 counts or so.

[Sean]

Okay, how exactly are these gm IAC things supposed to work? I would assume that when the pintle thing is fully extended, the computer somehow knows this, and at that point, it seals completely, like a valve. I'll read up on this a little. I was about to start modifying the IAC, but my stupid engine started sounding like it was going to throw a rod out the side of the block (it was fine a couple days ago, WTF??). By the way, with chip#1, it idles rather lean. That might be why it's stalling..? My fuel press is stock. (drilled regulator to compensate for the walbro pump at idle)..it seems to run okay under boost, although I only dipped on it a little once, due to the ominous sounds coming from the bottom end. I've barely run it at all, I was scared to drive it to the gas station..hopefully I will have it back together soon

you need to call me ive got some stuff i must get off of my invertory. but it already on hand no waiting.

[Accordtheory]

The screen in the oil pickup was almost clogged with pieces of brass. I don't know where all that shit came from. The bearings weren't that bad. With new rod bearings, the specs are now about.038mm for the rods and about .055mm for the mains, in other words at the loose end of the standards. The engine still has a knock though, and the oil press is about 15 at idle, 40 at 3k, with 10w30. (Nowhere near what it was with my other shortblock) Nothing that I could see was broken, and I didn't feel like pulling the engine, but I am getting rid of this piece of shit. I should have known better than to put this in my car, the fucking thing says "BS" right on the front of the block.

Anyway, back to the gm ecm conversion. I modified the IAC by drilling out the honda housing, and then epoxying in place a washer for the gm pintle to seal against. However, the unit still doesn't control the idle! I don't know what it's doing, because I can't see it when the engine is running, but I don't think it's moving at all. I think it's just staying fully closed. I guess I will take it off, and then observe what it does when I turn the key on. If it doesn't retract, I'll try one from the junkyard, and if that one doesn't move, I guess something's up with the wiring/ecm.

I still haven't figured out why the fuel pump wire isn't grounding. Does the chip control this, or the IAC? I might try swapping the chip.

[Sean]

The screen in the oil pickup was almost clogged with pieces of brass. I don't know where all that shit came from. The bearings weren't that bad. With new rod bearings, the specs are now about.038mm for the rods and about .055mm for the mains, in other words at the loose end of the standards. The engine still has a knock though, and the oil press is about 15 at idle, 40 at 3k, with 10w30. (Nowhere near what it was with my other shortblock) Nothing that I could see was broken, and I didn't feel like pulling the engine, but I am getting rid of this piece of shit. I should have known better than to put this in my car, the fucking thing says "BS" right on the front of the block.

Anyway, back to the gm ecm conversion. I modified the IAC by drilling out the honda housing, and then epoxying in place a washer for the gm pintle to seal against. However, the unit still doesn't control the idle! I don't know what it's doing, because I can't see it when the engine is running, but I don't think it's moving at all. I think it's just staying fully closed. I guess I will take it off, and then observe what it does when I turn the key on. If it doesn't retract, I'll try one from the junkyard, and if that one doesn't move, I guess something's up with the wiring/ecm.

I still haven't figured out why the fuel pump wire isn't grounding. Does the chip control this, or the IAC? I might try swapping the chip.


im looking right now to see if maybe the code is driving the wrong pin. this could be happening as the code in the box was not intedned for the box. we should however take this to email until we get it figured out. its odd. my wifes car has been running the same computer for about 3 yrs now with nary a problem like this. anyways im sure it can be worked out. also if the idle is set to be above 1000rpm the IAC will stay closed. becuase if the warm idle 140F and above is set for 1000rpm and the TB is adjusted higher the IAC will not control the idle. is it still running lean ???

[Accordtheory]

The car will idle under 1k rpm, the IAC isn't doing shit.. Overall, the car drives okay so far, except it is very easy to stall, and it seems to be slightly less throttle reponsive. It cruises reasonably close to 14.7, so the mpg isn't too far off. I am going to be installing an intercooler soon, and it will be a new design that will drop the charge air below ambient. I might patent certain aspects of the system. When the system is in place, I will really be motivated to tune properly for higher boost. I would like to run about 22psi. Is there currently support for a 3 bar map with this ecm?

[Sean]

The car will idle under 1k rpm, the IAC isn't doing shit.. Overall, the car drives okay so far, except it is very easy to stall, and it seems to be slightly less throttle reponsive. It cruises reasonably close to 14.7, so the mpg isn't too far off. I am going to be installing an intercooler soon, and it will be a new design that will drop the charge air below ambient. I might patent certain aspects of the system. When the system is in place, I will really be motivated to tune properly for higher boost. I would like to run about 22psi. Is there currently support for a 3 bar map with this ecm?


glad to hear about the running good. ok now i sent you all the stuff you would need to tune the ECM. im working on a 3bar rewrite of the code. there was an old one but it just didnt seem to work as well as id would have liked. there is still yet another patch out there for it as well. the throttle response is not good becuase of the TB and the intake manifold. im sure it was off before with the stock ecm considering the intake your using. yes 3bar is currently doable. the IAC shouldnt even be noticable if its doing it job. do you get a high idle when the car is cold ??? should be around 1800rpm or so then taper down as the engine heats up. you should also get a good size flare up on startup.

as for the tune. again you not running anything like what im running so i ballparked it as best i could. did you get the datalogging working yet ? with the datalogger i think we can get that stalling fixed.

[Accordtheory]

I have not had the opportunity to work on the datalogging side of this shit yet, the rest of the car keeps giving me too many problems. For instance, now my water pump is pissing coolant, my new sprint springs make the car sit higher, so I need to get an alignment, my back shocks are horribly worn, and oh yeah, the short block's mechanical noise is about 3x what it should be, and it's probably about to blow up grenade status. (I tried to blow it up last night, hitting the rev limit in 4th, but it'll probably wait until I'm out in the middle of bumfuck egypt one day)
However, I might need to get the laptop hooked up to figure out if the computer is even trying to do anything with the IAC. It doesn't do anything at all, no idle increase upon startup, no cold fast idle, and the idle drops down to like 700 when the headlights are on. Also the fuel pump wire is still ghetto too. Maybe I'll try to motivate myself to do something with it today.

[Sean]

I have not had the opportunity to work on the datalogging side of this shit yet, the rest of the car keeps giving me too many problems. For instance, now my water pump is pissing coolant, my new sprint springs make the car sit higher, so I need to get an alignment, my back shocks are horribly worn, and oh yeah, the short block's mechanical noise is about 3x what it should be, and it's probably about to blow up grenade status. (I tried to blow it up last night, hitting the rev limit in 4th, but it'll probably wait until I'm out in the middle of bumfuck egypt one day)
However, I might need to get the laptop hooked up to figure out if the computer is even trying to do anything with the IAC. It doesn't do anything at all, no idle increase upon startup, no cold fast idle, and the idle drops down to like 700 when the headlights are on. Also the fuel pump wire is still ghetto too. Maybe I'll try to motivate myself to do something with it today.


that is odd that the IAC is taking no action. what the TPs Voltage ?? at closed throttle ?

[Accordtheory]

I'll check, but before when I was messing around with the idle, it would cut out if it revved too high with the throttle closed, so I assume the tps is indicating that the throttle is closed, because otherwise wouldn't it just rev up to wherever the vacuum leak would make it go?

P.S. My clutch disintegrated on the way home today, as if everything else wasn't enough

[Sean]

I'll check, but before when I was messing around with the idle, it would cut out if it revved too high with the throttle closed, so I assume the tps is indicating that the throttle is closed, because otherwise wouldn't it just rev up to wherever the vacuum leak would make it go?

P.S. My clutch disintegrated on the way home today, as if everything else wasn't enough


im gonna look into that more in the next few days and see what i can do about it.

[AccordEpicenter]

well shit son... sounds like youre having a hell of a time. Go to 20w-50 oil see if that makes a difference... that might save it for a while.

[Sean]

I'll check, but before when I was messing around with the idle, it would cut out if it revved too high with the throttle closed, so I assume the tps is indicating that the throttle is closed, because otherwise wouldn't it just rev up to wherever the vacuum leak would make it go?

P.S. My clutch disintegrated on the way home today, as if everything else wasn't enough


call dave norton at spec clutch tell him you want the accordcentral stage clutch.

by chance what is the part number on the ECM in the kit ?

[Accordtheory]

Talked to dave norton, the clutch sounds exactly like what I was looking for. I forgot to ask about a lighter flywheel though..

[SQ is the SQUAD]

bump cuz someone asked about it

[MessyHonda]

holly crap this is old batman

[A20A1]

The link to the pin out doesn't work but I think thats cause it was merged with this thread.