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Sean
06-29-2002, 06:10 PM
ok to give an update. after sevrals hours of examing the cpu and other chips involved in the ecm a determination has been made that the base programming language is hex. (much thanx to sabz5150 for his help !!! ). The next step is to decode the hex code and make it manageable to represent. This may take some time to unravel. The end goal is to find a away to make tunning our ecms simpler allowing us to have Turbo's large cams and ported heads without fear of leanning out or underfeuling the car. Currently i await the Binary image from the factory prom from non other than Carotman. any one who is already involved in the project stays on. newcomers will be selected based on exprience and knowledge as well as work effort. the end result will be tunning software given to those who work on the project.


those not involoved will be able to purchase chips for $75 for standard bolt on mods. and custom proms will cost $150 from me or anyone else involved.

in short this will be a somewhat longterm project but the rewards will be handsome espacailly when we will be able to tune civic and other ecm's as well.

sincelry Funstick.

RELATED LINKS:
- TURBO FAQ (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16855)
- GM ECM GROUP BUY (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16855)

UPDATE: 10/27/2004
- GM ECM PINOUT (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=38760)

.

Sean
06-29-2002, 08:47 PM
feel free to voice yr opinions would you rather buy software for tunning ??

POS carb
06-29-2002, 10:05 PM
I have a hex program but I have no clue as how to use it. I can send it to u if u want, see if you or Sabz can figure out these numbers?

87pimpsterdocious
06-29-2002, 10:32 PM
I really have a lot of respect for you guys. You really care for this car deep down. I'm amazed by your knowledge and your experimentation funstick. Just wanted to give you a little feedback. I'm really excited about this too, it could revolutionize performance for our cars. Thanks for taking on this project.

guaynabo89
06-30-2002, 04:31 AM
I'd be willing to pay 150 for a custom ecu. What kind of time table are you loking at?

I know in the other post someone said like a year. Of course if I did get one it would be straight to the dyno to see how well it works.:)

gugumachi
06-30-2002, 06:11 AM
i'd like to offer my help, but i don't know much hex code. i do have a pretty good foundation of visual basic, so maybe after you guys crack it and want to design software, i could help. just pm me here or email me at [email protected] if there's anything you think i can help with.

Sean
06-30-2002, 08:23 AM
i think sabz and i are gonna really be the most involved. he lives close enough that on the weekends we can get togehteher ad test this thing out. its not really tought to crack the code as it is to figure out how the code works. mainly the first step will be to unlock where the feul spark and volumetric effceincy tables are as well as the feul pressure constants. then from there we should be able to narrow things down a bit. one of the long term goals is to enable a cummunacation pin on the proccesor so we can actaully look at what the ecm is cummputing and how. this will enable us with the creative work to devise scaning sofatware further enabling us to not only diagnose but tune the ecm even tighter.

TeKKnoTeKK
06-30-2002, 11:24 AM
Sounds like a plan.....great idea guys! I would definetly buy a custom ECU if I was guaranteed that it would work properly, a money back guarantee would be nice also ;) Is it a matter of just hooking up a computer to the ECU to program/interpret it? If so how are you going to do that? Definetly a very interesting concept. I think finding someone that has a good knowledge of hex code would cut this project to a much shorter time, they wouldn't even need to know about cars.

88turboaccord
06-30-2002, 12:27 PM
I think it is a good idea and would be benificial to a lot of members on this board..... As for me, I am going an entirely different route.. But for people with minor bolt-ons, I think it is a good idea, but for turbo aplications, I feel this is not the way to go. Honda MAP sensors are not designed to see boost, and there is no way of solving this problem except to run an entirely different system.. Even the Zydne modifued honda ECU's, you have to buy a totally seperate MAP sensor or go to a MAF set-up...

SO for turbocharching, I would go a different route, but for everything else, sounds like a good plan... Keep up the good work....:super:

n300zx
06-30-2002, 01:08 PM
I'd pay that much... I'd even be willing to help on the hex code....

Sean
06-30-2002, 04:17 PM
recalibrating for a gm map sensor will be pretty easy. thats actaully the least of my troubles. in the project i would like to expand th feul and spark table so we can run the bigger injectors and higher feul pressure but keep the driveability stock. i would like to add at least 2 more rows to each table for boost.

as for the prom tunning thanx for offering up the help. i got a real hex engineer with serious programming experience involved. My granpfather wrote the code for many a tomohawk missle and sevral other systems working for martin marieta so i think were covered on hex. i will need help writing a scanner program compatiable with windows (you c++ or visual basic guy are gonna really help out !! ) . lets take this one step at a time. first we must decode and decifer the whole eprom image. then we go form there. !! thanx for the support. !!!

as for other things involved in the ecu hacks weve got some smaller hardware issues.

1. the ecu does not have a socketed prom a socket needs to be added. i will look at doing this for a modest sum. there is a great deal of time invovled to do it without damaging the ecu. i spent 1.5 hours desoldering mine and i can report my ecm worked flawlessly including the original eprom. (thank god for patience)
i was thinking $25 to resocket the board and add a zif socket allowing easy chip changes when you get a chip !

2 changing the map sensor for you guys hungry for boost.
this should enabel us to run upto 8psi of boost on stock engines now without serious concern for durability.

3 man this is cool we can finnaly really take advantage of bigger camshafts !!! ported head !!! bigger throttle bodys !! ooh i wish i had started this along time ago !!

thanx for the support.

88LXiHB
06-30-2002, 10:14 PM
:bow: Funstick and crew

Sean
07-04-2002, 02:01 PM
may take another week or to to get a prom image. gotta get a new programmer. carot did you get a prom image yet ?

toastyghost
07-06-2002, 03:57 PM
How much would you charge for tuning software with presets for different fuel tables and stuff? This would help make the shit more efficient when you're not using the high-perf settings. Not to mention the fact that it would be pretty damn cool to be able to load up more aggressive fuel settings before racing someone, then switch back to econocar mode after gunsmoking them :)

Sean
07-06-2002, 04:02 PM
your talking about a multimode eprom. im not anywhere near that stage of development nor am i anywhere near something thats gonna be flashable on the board. this is something that may never happen. however i can send you yr stock chip and the new one when you send in a ecm to get resocketed and a tunned chip. and you can swap them out yrself.

LX-i dragon
07-06-2002, 04:17 PM
:bow: :bow: you ARE tha man!!! when can i get one?

Sean
07-06-2002, 04:34 PM
sometime (hopefully) in the next 3-4 months depensing on how long it takes to unmask all the code in the eprom.

marc49
07-06-2002, 04:45 PM
just letting everyone know I made this an "important" post because this looks like it's going to be a long developing process and it could be 3-5 days or longer between replies. But this is a very good and important project that should stay in the "lime light" at the top of this forum.. :super: :flash:

toastyghost
07-06-2002, 08:40 PM
What about a hard switch? Would this work, assuming there were some way to have both chips in at the same time?

toastyghost
07-06-2002, 08:41 PM
One other thing.. the A20A ECU can be used with the B20A although it's not programmed well for it.. would the performance chip for the A20A also work on the B20A? Not that I think I'm ever going to actually get this goddamn swap done, but just in case... :D

Sean
07-06-2002, 08:42 PM
this could work provided the ecu isn;t particulary sensitive to cross talk or noise. give it some time first we need to be able to hack the code beofre we can do anyting to it.

gr3k0sLaV
07-07-2002, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by 88turboaccord
I think it is a good idea and would be benificial to a lot of members on this board..... As for me, I am going an entirely different route.. But for people with minor bolt-ons, I think it is a good idea, but for turbo aplications, I feel this is not the way to go. Honda MAP sensors are not designed to see boost, and there is no way of solving this problem except to run an entirely different system.. Even the Zydne modifued honda ECU's, you have to buy a totally seperate MAP sensor or go to a MAF set-up...

SO for turbocharching, I would go a different route, but for everything else, sounds like a good plan... Keep up the good work....:super:

Sorry I dont think ive ever seen you answer this justin, how did u manage to still run your car at high boost on the stock ecu? how did you bypass all the sensors and before? before you upgraded to the Haltech.

Sean
07-07-2002, 06:26 AM
i believe he was piggy backing the system and using a msd bosst timing retard. im also very sure he was using a check vavle to block the vacum signal during boost to the map sensor.

88turboaccord
07-07-2002, 09:25 AM
I was usiing check valves, an MSD BTM, a Vortech 12:1 FMU, and an inline 125psi fuel pump. That is how I got around it.. It worked, but it is not tunable like the Haltech is going to be.

Sean
07-07-2002, 02:04 PM
i couldnt rememeber which piggy back you were using

rallyeNate
07-10-2002, 03:59 PM
the ecu in the f-body transam/cyclone/turbo sunbird ecu chip are in the same family as are honda. currenty i am in the work to retro fit the chevy ecu in my honda. the adventage to doing this that the those gm ecu listed above is that, they are one of the hack ecu out there.

Sean
07-11-2002, 06:30 PM
i have considered using the 749 gm ecm. the only issue is getting it to work with the factory distributor. i don;t know how many people would goto the exspens of retrofitting a carb distributor with a gm module. then having to trash most if not all of the current efi components. its alot of expsnese.!!!

rallyeNate
07-13-2002, 09:00 PM
this true, right now i have 7730(tpi comp) that i am going to try. the only thing i am worried about is the distributor module, getting the gm map sensor to fit( if need be) wont be problem and i am almost postive that are tps puts out 5volt @ wot. once i have the 7730 to fit the i will move to the 7749. i would start with a 7749 but a 7730 just fell into my lap. how is the baud rate on the 7749 compaired to the 7730, i know that 7730 is about 5x better than the 7747?

Sean
07-13-2002, 09:38 PM
couldn;t tell you about various gm buad rates i have a snap on scanner. no nead for scanning software.

Sean
07-14-2002, 02:01 PM
marc please delete all previous hack post and mark this importnat. its on to round 2.

for our lovely little wonder mobile there are 2 good ecm options.

gm 7165
or gm 7730/7727

both will work well. this will be an installment thing. showing both how to do it and parts i will make available upon request.

marc is there an ftp page on the 86-89accord site ????

if so email me detials and i will upload photos of work in progress.

as for cracking the ecm code HA its very well decoded !!!!
v8astrocapitan watch and learn. if you have q's email me you know where im at.

1988starter
07-14-2002, 03:00 PM
Go funstick.:super:

rallyeNate
07-14-2002, 03:11 PM
funstick i will backup you on this.

1- this wednesday will start an all out assult on converting my ecm to the 7730. v8astrocapitan might be coming over to lend a hand.

2- i have two points of concern with the swap. first is the aldl port, one will have to be installed somewere not realy a problem you must have one. second is the IGNITION MODULE, if it compable with gm computers. if not the other alturnative is to strip a gm DISTRIBUTOR its hall effect sensor and find someway to mount it your honda DISTRIBUTOR and swap ignition modules.

Sean
07-14-2002, 03:16 PM
maybe use the factory crank angle refrence in the efi disrtibutor to trigger the gm module??? or use the carb distributor ??? or get real fancy and hook up a dis module and add a pick up on the cam. ?? use the factory crank angle sensor and say f the damn thing al togther.

i will help are you gonna be using the stock efi harness ???

POS carb
07-14-2002, 03:16 PM
what kind of sensors... will we need to adapt gm sensors to the accord b/c the threads are probably different... how many sensors will be used?
map
tps
o2
crank angle sensor of some sort (maybe?)
engine/coolant temp
no Mass Airflow please :p

Sean
07-14-2002, 03:28 PM
ah

map sensor
o2 sensor
coolant sensor
vss sensor
gear seletor position switch
and a few otehr. the code ive been thingking of using is in a different ecm the 7165 with 7808 code. it has a barometric pressure sensor. ooh la la.

current compatiabilty issues in term of hard parts

gm IAC how to make it work ???
egr control yes this ecu has egr !! lets use it and stay smog legal.
maybe the factory gm hall effect ?? well see.

honda distributor must have advance locked out.


as for gm ecms there are 2 that shine.

the 165 is easy to hook up and the 808 speed density offers awesome tunning power.

the 7727/730 will need memcals as well as the syphon or typhon bins to work with boost.

the 165 with 808 code has enough resolution in the mpas already to run boost but there is room to add more.

my personal choice is the 7165 with 808 code. i already have the
bins for teh 4 cylinder 2.0 holdens and i am setting them up to stock accord timming and feul delviery tables as best i can. then starts tunning when i get a tunned bin for the 808 i will make it public. this will make upgrades and stuff easier.

also the tables for the 7165 could be imported into the 7727/730 so it can go either way.

this is the new 3 g board im sick of the pissing and moaing ante up and help out. if you have efi and want a turbo this is a very nessacary upgrade !!!! if you don;t have efi this is a much better alternative to swap to.

rallyeNate
07-15-2002, 08:15 AM
the only sensors that you should need to drag is a map sensor, vss, and maybe a IAC. the hard part about all this will be the vss; funstick do you have any ideas on this? 7730 you can adjust the input from the vss on the computer, how much it can be or will be needed i dont know.

Sean
07-15-2002, 11:01 AM
well the accord has a magentic vss already its on pin b18 the color is striaght yellow its in the larger 2 peice conector. on the input side of the ecu. the single whit connector is the output side.
you can change the variable in the 808 programming to accomadate just about any vss. im not sure how to do this with the 730

rallyeNate
07-15-2002, 03:07 PM
i am still playing catchup on some term ( i just got into the gm ecu tunning relm a couple of weeks ago), what is the 808 program?

the 7730 ecu it self has a setting on the board to adjust for the vss, but if i remember correctly the proper vss for the 7730 sends the info on a 40MHz either sine or squre wave, so it prolly amplitude modulated. how does the accord send its vss signal?

on thirdgen, what were you saying about the distributor, switch to the carb distributor? and use the gm spark advance?

rallyeNate
07-15-2002, 03:10 PM
FUNSTICK, do you have pin digram for the wiring harness for the accord computer? or something that can tell me what each pin means.

Sean
07-15-2002, 07:24 PM
ill get the pin swap info for you tommorw.and you need to stirp a gm distributor for its hall effect and use a carb distributor. as for the factory honda vss ill get back to on that one gotta check one out. never checked it for fq and wave form before.

rallyeNate
07-15-2002, 07:44 PM
ill see what i can do about getting the hz wave form on the vss for the 7730. what computer are you going to use?

this wednesday i am going to the junkyard to get a chip, distributor and vss for the manual accord(eletrical), is there anything else.

Sean
07-15-2002, 07:49 PM
yeah get a map, temp,knock,inlet charge temp,iac,the whole shebang. also can the 730 run peak/hold injectors ????

Sean
07-15-2002, 08:44 PM
ok here is a pin out chart for the honda ecu. with descriptions i will post the 730 pin outs when you tell me which ecm you grab and what code yr gonnna run.



pins
honda

a1 brn inj #1
a2 blck grnd
a3 red inj #2
a4 blck grnd
a5 blu #inj 3
a6 grn/w blk f pump +switched
a7 yelw inj #4
a8 wht/use fpr anything
a9 blk/wblu use for anything
a10 red use for anything
a11 ????
a12 grn/wblack f pump on +switched
a13 yel/wblck ign run/strt
a14 ??????
a15 ylw/wblck ing run/strt
a16 ???????
a17 wht/wyelw battery allways hot + 15amp
a18 black/red ground


ok with the connectors facing you !!!!! on the honda ecm start at the fartehst left connector should be white. this is the A connector.

b1 ???
b2 red use for anythng
b3 ??
b4 b4 usefor anything
b5 ??
b6 ???
b7 grn :gear poistion switch
b8 blu/red ac clutch on 12v +
b9 grn/wht gear postion switch
b10 ???
b11 red/blu O2 sensor input 0.1-0.9 vlts
b12 ???
b13 blue/red ecu memory wire + alwy hot
b14 wht/red to alternator ??? not sure how it works
b15 ??
b16 ???
b17 ????
b18 yel VSS ouptu from dash
this is the middle connector connector B same numbering as before

c1 org to tdc sensor
c2 wht to tdc sensor
c3 org/blu to tdc sensor
c4 wht/blu to tdc sensor
c5 wht/red intake air temp
c6 yel/grn coolant temp
c7 red/yell tps
c8 yel egr postion sensor
c9 red outside baro pressure ( for alltitude)
c10 ???
c11 red/wht Map
c12 grn/wht 5 volts ref tps,barosensor,egr lift sen,engine temp
intake air temp
c13 ???
c14 blue/wht Map sensor
c15 red/whit Map
c16 whit O2 sensor
of course this is the connector all the way to the right with the ecm connectors facin you !!! on the ecm.

all the ??? should be blank pins not in the wire count but avaiable for conncetion to the honda ecm. if you doubt this info i would double check it against the factory harness for accuracy. take a multi meter and run some continuity tests.all the use for anythings terminate in the vacum box as well as the MAP sensor.
daigrams from chiltons. double check everything.

rallyeNate
07-15-2002, 09:27 PM
how is the vaccum box (passanger side firewall) intagreated in the ecu on the honda?

at hell(autozone) today aka work, i was looking at the ignition module for the late model gm hei and are honda. the ignition module that is mounted interally was a ring shape with two leads coming off it, and the gm ignition module had a connecter just like it; i am not to familer with inter working of either ignition module but with having the same connections(distributor output) thay are prolly close. do you think thay are swapable in conjunction with using the 7730?

the 7749 is setup to run p/h tpi style injectors. i will find out the rest for you and get the answer for you tomorrow.

thanks for the wiring diagram!!

Sean
07-15-2002, 10:21 PM
the vacum box house the map and a few vacum actuators. you can use this empty wirign form teh vaucm actuators for other things like egr and such. ill get with you latere im looking itno build some adapting harness's to make this swap easier

Sean
07-19-2002, 08:10 AM
hello all. this is a topic to discuss isdea for using gm igntion modules. there are sevral ways to do this.

one is to use a gm 1227747 ecm in a timing only mode. using gm guts in the honda distributor.

the other works for swapping a gm ecm into a honda.

i am opening the disucsion on how to acomplish this.

MiGeY
07-19-2002, 04:45 PM
What kind of advantage would this provide?
I really have no idea and just curious.

Thanx

Sean
07-19-2002, 09:46 PM
it goes with the gm ecm idea.

PhydeauX
07-22-2002, 01:30 PM
I have the parts, now I just have to make it work.

I'm starting with a gm 2.0L ohc 4 banger distributor (this one is from a turbo grand am) and one from an a20a1 (LX). The drives look compadable, but I just grabed them this afternoon so I haven't done much with it yet. I'll keep you all posted.

andy

PhydeauX
07-22-2002, 06:06 PM
I'm about halyway through ripping them apart. I don't have anything to get the drive off the shaft of the grand am distributor here so I'll bring it to work tomorrow and finish it up. The drives are similar and they can probable be interchanged. The shafts are the same length, but the part where the rotor mounts is diferent. I don't know if the shafts can sway, but the grand am rotor definitly wont work with the honda cap, and you can't switch the caps. It looks like the reluctor is friction fited to the shaft on the gm rather tightly, I'm not sure if it will readily swap to the honda shaft.

After taking them apart and getting a good look at the guts I wonder if will the gm ecu run with the stock honda distributor. I don't have a scope anymore to see what the signals look like, but I have a feeling that they are close enough for funk. They both have 4 star reluctors and similar coils. The stators are diferent. The gm stator picks up on all for points of the reluctor every 90° of cam rotation while the honda only picks up on 2, but I don't that that will make a signifigent diference. I have a feeling that its possible. If I can get my hands on a scope again I'll test them out and see, but I don't know if I can get one any time soon.

andy

Sean
07-22-2002, 09:25 PM
the tach signal will suffer. itll think its a 2 cylinder with only half the reference pulses.

Sean
07-22-2002, 09:43 PM
ok after weighing pros and cons over which ecu to use i have actauly been swayed by the pros over at gmecm. there are sevral good ecus to use but the one that offers the most promise is the 1227749. it can run upto 28psi of boost. run 4 peak hold injectors. and can be tuned to purr like a kitty on the honda engine pretty easily. this is or guys wanting to eventually go the turbo road. its actaully the first step i would take.

the other ecm whcih would work best for N/A combintations (ie no boost) is the 1227165 withthe 1227808 code. it also has great tunning potentail. im going to run a pool to see which ecm is better for development.

warning both of these ecms are getting hard to come by. so i think i am going to take the time to copy the pcbs so if you can;t get ahold of one you can build yr own.

Sean
07-22-2002, 11:06 PM
after long im with phydueax it seems only the gm module needs to be used simplyfying the process. thanx man.

bobafett
07-23-2002, 09:37 AM
well even if you are not gonna do a turbo, would the more tunable, 28lbs project be "Better" for the NA guys? if so, i would rather go that route, even though i dont know if i will do a turbo in the future.

if the only option for a non turbo person is the 1227165 with the 1227808 code, then i am thinking it would be the smarter choice!

this whole project confuses the shit out of me, but i think its awesome, and i will prolly buy one when they beome available.

this was already asked before, but maybe you have a better idea now: would this chip also benefit the b20a? i am considering doing that swap, but it might be worthwhile to stick with the a20a if we are gonna have a tweakable ecu! :)

keep us posted pls!

Sean
07-23-2002, 02:33 PM
ok to keep thsi striaght. the 808 code ECU is easier to get. thats the real advantage i have them already.

the 1227749 ecu is getting very hard to find these days. it was in a limited # of aplications.

but the 1227749 is really better at boost. the 1227165 (808) is better a/t na apps. so its just s poll to check interest.

Sean
07-23-2002, 02:35 PM
ok to start the fire again !!! found a group of people decoding the OBDO ecus so there is something that can be done. but it will not be very easy to tune and is gonna be severly limited due to the distributor. GM ECMS are still a better option. the electornic timing is what sells me.

Sean
07-23-2002, 06:41 PM
With Marcs permsion i would like to start a group buy for a conversion kit to a GM ECM. I plan on selling a kit to convert to one of 2 ecms.Booth kits will include similar parts. one will be for the turbo heads the other will be for the N/A guys.heres the list of parts.

adapting harness's: there could be as many as 4 of these haven't quiet finished the wire routing yet.these will all be marked and will use factory connectors so you cann't mix it up.


also
Map sensor
egr controler
knock sensor where aplicable.
new igntion module.
Reman Ecu ( to exspensive new)
ecu to cabin harness adapter
vacum box to gm sensor adapter.
gm injector wiring adapter
reprogrammed chip to yr needs.
all software needed to modify your new ecu ( eprom burner not included)


i want to start taking orders soon this is all depent upon marcs permsion. those interest please reply below.



target price for kit is $450 for N/a use
$550 for boosted use. the map is exspnsive as hell.

those intrested pelase reposnd below. i wll not start on anything till i have at least 10 orders for each.except for my own car. its alot of labor involved.

also anyone in the MD DC VA PA NJ area for another $150 i will install this kit.ready to ship in 30 days garuanteed.

87accordlxi
07-23-2002, 06:52 PM
good luck. history has shown us that no one here will spend that kind of money

Sean
07-23-2002, 06:53 PM
you aint kidding

PhydeauX
07-23-2002, 07:05 PM
Stick with the gm, the computer controlled timing alone makes it worth it, not to mention nice goodies like knock sensors :).

andy

accordlx
07-23-2002, 07:05 PM
I can't get 10 people together to agree that 2 color indiglo guages for automatics are a good investment for 1/10th of that price.

Good Luck

Sean
07-23-2002, 07:12 PM
indiglo gauges wont make yr car faster.

TeKKnoTeKK
07-23-2002, 07:26 PM
I don't think anyone is gonna dive into this until there are some performance numbers to back it up, atleast that is the way I feel about it.

Sean
07-23-2002, 07:43 PM
yeah this is a back burner project. and i have another follower huh. gm ecms rule.

Sean
07-23-2002, 07:48 PM
yet agian this is a way to optimize yr combo. there is no hp gain in switching systems. it allows you to make use of bigger cams headers exhuast etc etc etc.that is where the hp gain is.

ok whos an hr from baltimore ?? ill do 1 for the cost of parts.

jteuton
07-24-2002, 09:20 AM
funstick if you are serious about making money and i'm sure you are.....hell even i want you to succed.....maybe the best idea here is to do you own car first....(since its your idea and your practically going to do it anyway)....save up a few hundred more dollars...(eat lite for a week or two) get some perf parts like headers and regrinded cam...and then head to a dyno in your area and switch and swap and make adjustments on your computer and show the sheets to the people on this board. If the dyno sheets show wide usuable power bands i'm sure you'll be rich with all the units you'll sell. But me personally....i have made to many expensive dives to end up losing power with computer parts so i'm hesitant and i think the feeling is mutually with other members. So far I have dished out 750 dollars in chips and i have no power gains. (Not on the Accord....another vehicle)....

Sean
07-24-2002, 01:07 PM
well im not selling chips. im only selling a base calibrations that you can modify any way you would like. bascially im doing the hard work. building the wiring and the base tune.

markmdz89hatch
07-25-2002, 10:48 AM
hey funstick, how long would it take me to get there from CT? ...and how long would it take you to do this swap? Oh yeah, and how much would it cost me to have you do this like you offered. ("ok whos an hr from baltimore ?? ill do 1 for the cost of parts.")

I guess I'll let my car be a guinea pig as long as you can do this for a carbed car, and you're not too far away.

Oh yeah, and you can guarantee that I'm not gonna have any strange electrical/computer problem half way on my way home.
:D

Sean
07-25-2002, 12:38 PM
do me a favor and pull and lxi hatch harness before we even begin this coversation. email well talk.
[email protected]

headtrip
07-26-2002, 11:24 AM
ok the O.E.M. ecu has some usable parts, such as injector driver circuits, analog to digital converters for reading sensors digital to analog converters for driving items in the wonderous black box-o-??? but why hack the current cpu/code when you can start from scratch with 1 of many small imbedded system boards (linux based seems good) that are relitivly inexpensive 100 - 200 $ and start the code from scratch, QNX nutrino also seems to be a damn good real time imbeded os the could seriously be usefull here. a nice backlit 240x300 touch lcd is only like 100$ not color, but who cares. look trough back issues of circuit celler, a few months ago they ran an exelent article about building an engine ecu from scratch, the circuit may be a bit excessive but the article included an exelent writeup about the math involved for basic and some more advanced fuel/air/ignition management..

l8er -Trip

Sean
07-28-2002, 12:07 AM
ttt

gr3k0sLaV
07-28-2002, 05:42 AM
hmmm i got a better idea, just hook all the sensors for a display, below that have switches and knobs...hook it all up on the passenger side, then get a gimp or someone who's super intelligent & has really fast reflexes, to control it all...

or just import a kid from a really POOR country, train him and pay him like $0.10 a day to manage your car....be cheaper..and easier...all you need to do is feed the kid...he can live in the trunk.

89BlackH-Back
07-28-2002, 06:24 AM
you cant find these codes in the repair handbooks, cuz i think you can

Inabj2
07-31-2002, 01:19 AM
I cant vote but USE THE ONE WITH 28 lbs of BOOST

headtrip
08-02-2002, 06:35 AM
the usdm b20a4 has an electronicly controlled timing advance correct? and if so im sure it has a vastly diffrent mount up / driven spindle. so aside form the fact that a custom mount would have to be created, it is still feasable that this could be used to allow ecu control over timing advance/retard.

killerb09
08-02-2002, 07:27 AM
how much of a difference between this ecu and the 8-91 civic/crx SI ecu do you figure there is? other then one being for a 1.6l adn one being a 2.0l...cause I knwo the ECU on the si are fully flashable adn this is essential what you get when you send it to like Vennom adn Locash etc....
they remove you chip and replace it with the new aggressive one

there was even a guy that cracked the code and sent it out in Excell spreadsheet format and stuff...I may still have it or know someone that does....

rallyeNate
08-09-2002, 11:10 PM
go with the 7749, for people with out boost the end of the feul table will just not madder.
but $500 is that not a bit much, i can get the the whole set of sensor for less the $200. whats the other $300 for?

Sean
08-10-2002, 06:21 AM
the 30 hrs it takes to build harness and have an iac mount machined.

bobafett
08-30-2002, 09:11 AM
is there any way to get one made that would help NA MT cars... but could still be helpful if running boost down the road?

i should prolly just play it safe and buy the NA one, since a turbo is several thousand dollars away! heh

Sean
08-30-2002, 01:47 PM
yeh ive been working on the 1227749 code and ive got it pretty wel configured for boost or no boost. i can leave the boost contorls in there and setit up for boost. using a 2 bar map sensor as the standard. no bigdeal. just loose alittle map resolutin butht e1227749 code interpolates better than teh 808 so itll compenstae very well.

bobafett
08-31-2002, 10:08 AM
really? so that would help me out once i get some more hardcaore mods? i would definetly buy one from you!

Sean
08-31-2002, 01:00 PM
yeah the 749 can even run a 1 bar map if thats what you need. i can tune for turbo or non tubro i actaully stopped working on the 808 altoghther becuase the 1227749 just seems smarter if you want boost later on its as simple as a chip switch. which of course i will send anyone who wants a chip a chip. of course if you buy a ecm kit from me i will will include chips for n/a 14 psi of boost 28 psi of boost. this will all be for stock engines. modded engine are gonna require a little more tweaking but not to much.

bobafett
09-01-2002, 11:49 AM
how much of a gain to do expect for a stock engine??

are we going to have the ability to tune these things? or will you have to do it? because i assume i will have more mods by the time i buy it, and add even MORE after i put it in, could we still make it helpful the whole time, without me having to send it back to you to get reprogrammed each time?

this is very interesting, and has me wanting one... i just gotta save the pennies!

Sean
09-01-2002, 07:47 PM
um if you buy a cheap eprom programmer i will gladly send the nessacary tunnig software to you. i picked up a lanker epromer4 for $85 off ebay. so that solves the reprogramming issue also you can data log with this ecm nice feature huh.

bobafett
09-01-2002, 08:01 PM
well is all the tuning in machine code/binary/hex? or is it in "english" so tp speak. i have taken a few different programming classes: java, VB, and C++, so i have a decent foundation about coding, but i am not an expert, would i be able to tune the car myself?

also, datalogging is fucking awesome! time to buy a PDA! lol... :)

Sean
09-01-2002, 08:09 PM
hey bro i have somethingn even better a romeditor with all the values explained in plain english its a java app but man its awesome.

Sean
09-01-2002, 08:10 PM
ooh it allows you to edit the hex values so you dont have to work in hex

bobafett
09-01-2002, 08:32 PM
so basically there are just different fields, and i modify them according to what my car needs, and it take care of all that conversions into icky code? thats sweet.... i will tune all night!
add me to your msn list if you have it, i would like to chat with you about this project sometime!~

Sean
09-01-2002, 08:44 PM
get my on AOL AIM i donhave alot of space on my laptop and my old programmer fried my motherboard int eh desktop

djfreggens is the aim handle

bobafett
09-02-2002, 10:00 AM
alright i will try to get aol today maybe! i am gonna be making (trying to make) a website for my business i just started! :)

Sean
09-02-2002, 10:04 AM
what business might that be ??

bobafett
09-02-2002, 10:45 AM
well i just got my business license for "com-tech"

its just me running the show right now, and i basically make new PC's, upgrade old ones, and fix any problem that anyone has. i am also going to do basic network services, and when i am good enough, i will offer web design services (getting BS in multimedia and web design right now).

thats the basic idea.. :) need a new comp? lol...

Sean
09-02-2002, 02:04 PM
nah i have a new motherboard on order. gotta love pricewatch.com

bobafett
09-02-2002, 04:38 PM
hehe.e. cool, i just order from newegg. :) i have been burned using pricewatch for the cheapest price!

i added you to my aim list.. though you werent on, maybe i will catch you later/

Sean
09-02-2002, 05:12 PM
just send me a AIM messgae im on right now djfreggens

V8Astro Captain
09-20-2002, 08:19 AM
The VSS input that the 7730 needs is and AC signal, 40 pulses per mile.

The VSS kinda looks like a small generator, because that's almost what it is.

What would you want to use the 165 with the 808 code? Why not just use the 7730?

V8Astro Captain
09-20-2002, 08:24 AM
I think we were planning on installing the 730 at first, then when the turbo comes later we were going to switch to the 749, since they are almost the same.

Funstick, do you know of any WinBin ECU files for the 749?

Sean
09-20-2002, 10:41 AM
hhmm ecu file for the 749 ??? hmmm how about you start with the 749 code in the 7730 ecm and use the 749 schematic. better to start form where youd lik eot end up. once you get that far a gift might fall into your lap.

V8Astro Captain
09-20-2002, 10:48 AM
mmmkay. Do you have any 749 code for me? I have a 730 ECM sitting on the shelf from another project.

Sean
09-21-2002, 08:31 PM
i think the 1227165 with 808 code offers the best tunning for pure N/A apllications. huge borad tables. as for the vss explain in greater detaidl exactly what the issues is becuase the 1227749 code $58 has a pretty adjustable VSS input.

Sean
09-21-2002, 08:34 PM
email me at [email protected] make sure to include the program ## you want.

oldriceracer
09-27-2002, 07:26 AM
i'm really good at converting hex code. give me the code and i'll have it to ya ASAP

Sean
09-27-2002, 01:25 PM
oldriceracer where are you at in maryland ??? im in the baltimore area.the one eprom i had is fired so i need some fresh code base to work with. got a spare ecm ?

3G Jester
10-04-2002, 09:48 PM
OK...i have visual basic, i can program pretty well...if you guys could inform me on all this ECU and gm lingo...im rather clueless as to what ur talking about---it doesnt have to be indepth--jsut basic overveiw ----i would love to take a wack at the hack....i also have a few friends who are really good programs who could perhaps offer me assistance---they arent honda tuners, theyd just help me for the hell of it. so just fill me and and ill try decoding too....

mugenprelude86
10-21-2002, 07:27 PM
heyhey yeah if you got one of those chips online and it worked for the 86 lude 2.0si's i'd buy one... !!!!! i can't wait till next spring.. gude cam, dc headder, rebuilt engine, and maybe a chip!! :omg: STOKED! that civ just looked neat

Sean
10-22-2002, 09:24 PM
no point in a chip i cant take advante of the timing controls becuase there aretn any. stay tunned ive got some things coming soon

Sean
10-24-2002, 11:22 PM
i hope bobafeet posts these for me.all the littl white tags are wires that lead to sensors, power feeds or ground loops dont really have much left i got to get an IAC machined and thats abotu it for hardware.oooh and in case you were wondering the harness is totaly scracth built.

bobafett
10-24-2002, 11:24 PM
http://com-tech-online.com/car/ECM.jpg

bobafett
10-24-2002, 11:28 PM
http://com-tech-online.com/car/ECM.jpg

PhydeauX
10-26-2002, 05:39 AM
Now you're gonna have that thing all on and ready to go by the time my travels takes me to baltimore right ;).

andy

Sean
10-26-2002, 09:48 AM
yeah im gonna finish it up when i get back from florida next week.

guaynabo89
10-28-2002, 09:33 AM
Bring me one of those when you come down. lol

Sean
10-30-2002, 02:38 PM
ahh i got to much time into mine to give it away. watch out for a complete kit to do it soon.

Sean
11-09-2002, 10:03 PM
ok more update ive got the harness 80% installed on teh car now ill have pics of the finished beast tommorow.im still waiting on my IAC however. gotta kick my machinist in the ass.

guaynabo89
11-10-2002, 09:04 AM
What distributer are you using? Did you chuck away the vacuum advance?

dXsquared
11-10-2002, 09:49 AM
why are u using a diferent ECU? is it programable? i never got this from the start!

Travis

Sean
11-10-2002, 11:03 PM
i sort of modified the current carb dizzy to work. its not very pretty but it works. anyways i got the injectors to fire to today and had spark so thngs are good. ive gotta run down the harness again and bring in fuel plus ive got to tidy up a few loose ends that need to be adressed. im still waiting on my IAC but word has it ill have it by tommorow. anyways ill keep you all posted ill have pics up tommorow afternoon i was to busy today to take any. i should also be able to start the car tomorow as well. maybe if youll are nice ill upload an mpeg video of the car running.

as to the question yes the ecm is reprogramable but its a GM pontiac sunbird ECM. its already setup to run on a turbo 4cyl 2.0l engine. also the wiring is pretty easy to do. im adapting

GM mopar and honda hardware to work. gott questions yet ?

Sean
11-12-2002, 08:44 PM
ok ok good news car is running got my IAC put on and it works great. youll never belive that honda practiacally made the idle bypass so close just a small plate was needed to mount it. anyways after 50mile of drivign the car runs great . i gotta post pcs i forgot to take sme today im a dough dough head.

Sean
11-12-2002, 09:37 PM
well ladies i got the car runnign today using a 122749 gm ECM. runs great to. i need to do a little tweaking in the eprom but so far so good.

ill post pics and detials in the next day or so i was gonna take some today but i forgot to. dooohhhhh. anyways there is an option now for people wantng turbos but affriad of the hassles of the engine cotnrol. the harness is comptletely standalone which means it can be used on either existing efi engines or carb motors. detials pics and more comming soon.

anchovies
11-12-2002, 11:54 PM
:super: nice..
yeah more detail

A20A1
11-13-2002, 01:39 PM
mpeg would be sweet! :D

HostileJava
11-13-2002, 05:02 PM
Can't wait to here more.

MoonScryer
11-13-2002, 06:48 PM
Funstick: I got a question for you. Instead of a custom harness, could I use the existing harness, and just simply repin a GM ECU plug for the harness side of the hookup? Is it possible to make an adapter to use the existing Honda harness plugs, something in between with Honda ECU and GM harness plugs on it, and then the GM ECU?

I'm not interested in rewiring an LXi when everything is already in place.

smufguy
11-13-2002, 09:04 PM
man............ funstick ur a god. U got like 368 posts and yet ur a moderator. U must be very sick man :D. I am really excited about ur project. Ur more of a man of action than a man of just words huh ? ;)

Sean
11-13-2002, 10:18 PM
ahh if you go back and add up all my posts from all the messgae board that we have moved around on im well over 5000 posts. ive been around since dec 2000. where where you ?

Sean
11-13-2002, 10:26 PM
ah i wouldnt use the stock harness i dont have a good enough schematic. plus there alot of ground loops and stuff in teh stock harness that really make life a bitch. you wont have to rewire the car. just unplug the factory shit ( which is wha it is) and hook up my new harness. ill get some info out soon enough.

88turboaccord
11-14-2002, 10:40 PM
http://88turboaccord.net/car/CNXT0048.JPG
http://88turboaccord.net/car/CNXT0049.JPG
http://88turboaccord.net/car/CNXT0050.JPG

Sean
11-15-2002, 02:33 AM
ok pics are here now any comments ?? i just drove this car euiped this way form baltimore maryland to detriot michigan with no problems. got question now ?in fact ill stop and take a pic onteh way out of michigan just to prove it. runs like a top and a good bit stronger then the stock lxi efi swap i did last time.

HostileJava
11-15-2002, 06:36 AM
Sound great, when are they going into mass production?:lol

guaynabo89
11-15-2002, 06:40 AM
Is it me or did you ditch every single vacuum hose in the engine bay? (this isn't a bad thing by the way)

Do you have a run down of all the sensors used? Whether they were the stock sensors or gm also? Any knock sensors? What is that where the cold idle valve is supposed to be?

quagmire
11-15-2002, 07:35 AM
Looks great. Now here's where I look like a moron. Why are you doing this? Is it because the stock ecu is crap and cant handle the slightest mod? Sorry, but I missed the beginning of this project. I'm very interested though!

1989 DX R
11-15-2002, 08:45 AM
Yes basically...so we can have it tuned for a turbo.

quagmire
11-15-2002, 09:02 AM
Ok. I was thinking about getting a turbo project started, but dismissed that because of the engine management problems. If I decided to go the high compression, "all motor" route, do ya'll think I'll need a new ecu? All motor is a bit more feasable at this point for me.

1989 DX R
11-15-2002, 12:30 PM
This solves the engine management problems...thus a turbo is possible.

*edit*

I guess for carb guys who have (or will have ;)) Webers, if we build the right kind of housing for the carbs we can do turbo?

Site
11-15-2002, 12:58 PM
"I guess for carb guys who have (or will have ) Webers, if we build the right kind of housing for the carbs we can do turbo?"

Yeah, you can turbo a carb (or carbs). There are 2 ways -
1. blow-through - turbo blows air through the carb, or
2. draw-through - turbo pulls air through the carb.

Blow-through gives greater potential boost, but you either have to seal the carb or enclose it in an airtight "box." DCOEs are sealed up to 20 psi boost, maybe more.

Draw-through pulls the gas and air mixture through the turbocharger. It seems to me like this would heat the mixture up a lot, limiting the boost you can run. I've heard there's a risk of the fuel "pooling up" inside the turbocharger. The mixture definitely becomes more dense this way.

Also, with a draw through setup you DON'T want to run an intercooler. Kraftafoni has a draw-through turbocharged dune buggy. He has it water-injected to keep things cool. He said an intercooler with a draw-through setup is like having a grenade in your engine bay. BOOM!

I've been talking with a guy that races vintage Mazda cars with boosted DCOE 45s. He bolts an aluminum box onto the top of the carbs and feeds the box with a turbocharger and intercooler setup. He said the DCOEs can handle 20 psi boost with no problems. I'm hoping to do the same with my DCOEs.

PortugalHonda
11-15-2002, 01:00 PM
wow... sweet ass job funstick..... 2 sweet man

3rd GEN
11-15-2002, 01:11 PM
how much of a gain do you actually get out of it??

Sean
11-15-2002, 08:34 PM
i dont know how much of a gian i got from simply swapping the ECM. by the seat of my pants it worth about 35hp over the carb and at least 10hp over the norma efi. electronic spark managemnet helps a great deal. as for kits ???? depends on interest.

1989 DX R
11-15-2002, 09:05 PM
Depends on the price, and how it would work with say a Weber DCOE setup.

Sean
11-15-2002, 09:17 PM
you wouldnt need the cabrs just get a TWM intkae manifold. and te price ill be somwhere in the mid $500's depending on part availability?im trying to get a price on wire connectors etc etc etc plus sensors and core so i can modify the dizzys and the idle air bypass.

1989 DX R
11-15-2002, 10:15 PM
Well, I've got a DX, and I'm going to switch over to some DCOE carbs to bypass the hassle of the whole EFI fuel conversion mess. Would the new ECM help at all?

Sean
11-15-2002, 10:22 PM
you could use a factory intake efi manifold and just plug in about 12 or so things. im still working out the ugs so its a wy off. and this car is a lx carb model. youll need to add a fuel line and a lxi pump but its not so hard to do.ill have some stuff writeen up soon got more footwork to do.

quagmire
11-15-2002, 11:23 PM
Does TWM have an intake manifold for the A20A3? Or did I read that wrong? That would be so rad!

MoonScryer
11-16-2002, 12:25 AM
Have to be custom on the bottom end, but I'm sure they could be convinced to, given the similarities to the 2nd gen 'teg manifold bolt pattern...

Funstick: if you find it feasible to do this, you have a buyer.

HostileJava
11-16-2002, 06:55 AM
Ditto

Sean
11-16-2002, 09:49 AM
ok wel the first issue is with the TWM intake manifold is the bottom holes need to be redrilled other wise the one for the b16 should work no problem.its alot like the webers in terms of looks and sound but is efi. i think those intakes are somwhere around $1100 but im not so sure. as for selling kits itll be another week or so before i get everything figured out for the long term. obviously i cant leave the ecm where it is without building some sort of weather proffing. i was thinking of mounting it inside a fibergalss box with bulkhead connectors. so ill fgure out something soon.ill see what i can do to come up a hard figure soon. also i have to fine the damn ecm's not such an easy task there sort of rare in terms of productions numbers. so i have to get more leg work done. any body interested in a kit email me and let me know what you want ill see what i can do. persoannally on the intake manifold i would go with e 86-87 lxi intake of the ITR short ram for the b16. the TWM manifold is complete overkill.http://www.twminduction.com/ThrottleBody/ThrottleBody.imgs/2000series-Z270.jpg this is the intake here is the part number for those who want weber like injection.
2000-0111/50 heres a link to twm.

http://www.twminduction.com/Home/Home-FR.html

also it under Throttle bodys and is a 2000 series. good luck emal me for further questions. or im gonna start a new thread.

quagmire
11-16-2002, 10:24 AM
Overkill, yes. But, they're so awesome. Too bad I'll never be able to afford one.

1989 DX R
11-16-2002, 01:49 PM
The reason I am going w/ the Weber DCOE's is because I don't have $2500 for a TWM manifold.

Sean
11-16-2002, 05:59 PM
hmm well just go efi with a stout cam youll be surprised how much power thats worth.

2old_honda
11-16-2002, 06:12 PM
I am interested in a kit for a carbed accord. How much do you think it would cost for just the ECM and instructions?

A20A1
11-16-2002, 08:33 PM
Damn that K&N has had it.
Good work. :D

A20A1
11-16-2002, 08:41 PM
Oh and what kind of wires are those? ACCEL 300+ / MALLORY / MSD ?

Sean
11-16-2002, 09:16 PM
accel 300+ and the kn is some junk i had laying around. i dont feel like building a whole CIA for a car thats gonna get a turbo put on it soon.bad enough i have to build IC pipping and what not.

Sean
11-18-2002, 02:21 PM
updates are comming along with alot of retunning. the factory sunbird code is pretty close to start with but could use alot of work. the timming table isnt what the engine wants and then fuel could use a bit of touching up as well.anyways i fgure its gonna take about 100hrs or so of tunning to get it right. ill kepp youll all posted.

gr3k0sLaV
11-19-2002, 01:02 PM
Ok Funstick curious about your removal of all the vac lines, would you recommend doing this if you'r either not turbo'ing or only have the stock ecu?

aside from prepping the car for the turbo, how has cuttign down the vac lines helped?

bobafett
11-19-2002, 05:00 PM
ok buddy!! thats awesome that you finally are getting this project wrapped up! i am pumped

i just want to clarify something though... you said it can work with my car the way it is now right? (i/h/e) and then i could keep it the same when i turbo it, without having to add anything else engine management wise? if this is the case i will start saving my pennies!

Sean
11-19-2002, 06:04 PM
yeah once i get a rom sorted itll work fine with i/h/e and a possiable turbo later. im only setting these up for 15psi of boost out the door. i might have a 4bar capable code but thats a long long long way off. the max on these right now currently is 3bar which is like 30psi. so i think we will all be fine with that amount of boost.

as for removing the vacum line there is no need for them anymore. i still have to add in a egr controler but thats about it. plus im gonna rebuild the harness to a newwer better desing this was a test run. also i still have a good bit of code that needs to be changed for the ecm to run 100% on the accord.

A20A1
11-19-2002, 06:14 PM
This is like totally wild sh!t... The 3geez finally get solid aftermarket. :D

CF HOOD
REG CAM / ADJ CAM GEAR
ECU

Sean
11-19-2002, 07:43 PM
whos got the carbon fiber hood ?

Site
11-19-2002, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by A20A1

CF HOOD
REG CAM / ADJ CAM GEAR
ECU

LOL funstick, where ya been? Check the Marketplace. It's a long story . . . short version - we're on our 2nd group buy with a manufacturer I hooked up with a few months ago.

Hey A20A1, where can we get the adjustable cam gear?

Sean
11-21-2002, 10:07 PM
just asking folks. i can put up a how to. if there enough interest for me to spend the next couple of weeks writing one.

anchovies
11-21-2002, 11:18 PM
ecm how-to to burn our own chips or installing your gm ecm?

Sean
11-22-2002, 11:47 AM
both

anchovies
11-23-2002, 12:01 AM
I don't think many people will be into it. And they need all the tools which are not that cheap either. Maybe you can brief us on the stock vs. your modified gm setup. How and why it works. :)

Sean
11-24-2002, 08:41 PM
i changed my name after 3 yrs on 3g's. im just bruned out. so when looking for an intelgent post on 3g's please remeber i have a name name so old user brand new name.peace out.

socal3rdgen
11-24-2002, 08:47 PM
alright we gottcha FUNSTICK :lol

Site
11-25-2002, 10:53 AM
"The Sean has spoken" just doesn't sound the same, though.

bobafett
11-25-2002, 11:12 AM
yeah that tripped me out for a sec... :)

MoonScryer
11-25-2002, 02:05 PM
There is interest here, for me at any rate...

bobafett
11-25-2002, 02:55 PM
yeah man i am into it! i would LOVE to learn more~~ go for it "sean" :P

dXsquared
11-25-2002, 03:01 PM
who the hell is this sean guy? what does he mod? he only has 400 some posts?

Travis

socal3rdgen
11-25-2002, 03:11 PM
Sean is a.k.a Funstick. he moderates Project Central.

Sean
11-25-2002, 03:14 PM
hmnmm

dXsquared
11-25-2002, 03:15 PM
how does he change his user name?

cuz he is a moderator?

Travis

bobafett
11-25-2002, 03:25 PM
hehe sean has a million post for the old ezboard days.. dont go by post count lol...

he's one of them guys who used to have a turboed accord. :) :)

Sean
12-14-2002, 12:44 PM
ok fella it onto round 3 of the gm ecm saga. after working with a gm ecm for a while i really like it on the honda. i did however find a better model that supports

DIS distributorsless ignition system ( no more cap and rotor)

more tuneable feuatures better code resolution

i basically want to know who wants one the pirce for the harness and parts with a prom tunned for upto 15psi of boost is $650 come with everything.

im getting ready to bulk buy some things and without enough interest im gonna scrap the idea.

so please let me know whats up ?

AccordEpicenter
12-14-2002, 08:29 PM
i would but dont have the cash, and prolly wont for a while...

Site
12-15-2002, 07:23 AM
Sean, will this help me in my blow-through project with the DCOEs? I'm setting it up with 10:1 JE pistons (I'll have water-injection and intercooler to help avoid detonation with the hi comp). I want the hi comp to remove some the the turbo lag.

Sean
12-15-2002, 08:33 AM
no unless you ditch the carbs this is not aything thats gonna help you.im trying to work out a timing only version for somone else here but thats all protyping and thoery right now.

Sean
12-16-2002, 01:32 AM
this topic is dead. due to lack of interest.

anchovies
12-16-2002, 01:54 AM
How many ppl actually running fi on this board? Not many. Plus, for $650, it's going to a bitch to sell imo.

bobafett
12-16-2002, 06:23 AM
ok now the question is: how well will it help people who are NON turbo...

you claimed your last ECM project gained about 15 lost horsiepower, if this ECM will help with NA cars, i might be in... and since it will give me the option to run boost later on down the road :)

whats the verdict? dont let this thread die so fast!

Sean
12-16-2002, 02:40 PM
if 3 people step upto the bat then well talk until then its a dead horse.

bobafett
12-16-2002, 02:52 PM
bobafett
bobafett
bobafett

... :D

cruznz
12-16-2002, 03:11 PM
ecu for distributorless ignition i'd be interested in but abit awkward when youre to far away...lol

bobafett
12-16-2002, 03:13 PM
can you explain what a distributorless ingnition is? i dont really understand the advantage!?! i am just interested in all new projects that show for promising results for more power!

cruznz
12-16-2002, 04:14 PM
as the name implies...no distributor....uses multiple ignition coils,ECM,engine sensors,and a microcomputer to trigger spark plugs and adjust spark timing.....(4 cyl would use a coil pack containing 2 ignition coils.....cam sensor......crank sensor...knock sensor...etc)

advantages:....no dizzy or internal parts to burn crack or fail,
....spark timimg computer controlled...
.backlash in timing chain(or gears) and distributor drive gears is eliminated,leads to greater accuracy in spark advance timing Crankshaft sensing is precise and not par of a secondary drive train....
Fewer seperate and moving parts,...makes system more reliable as far as wear and tear goes
requires less maintenance

bobafett
12-16-2002, 04:21 PM
so we would need 4 "accel coils" is that the right idea?
would be kind of cool!!!!

the advantages sound nice, even on a NA car!

cruznz
12-16-2002, 04:23 PM
no just 2 coils

bobafett
12-16-2002, 04:31 PM
hmmm, well i will have to do more research before i really understand it.. :)

how would we only have 2 coils for 4 cylinders?

cruznz
12-16-2002, 07:45 PM
They call it an electronic coil pack
igniton coils are wired so they fire 2 spark plugs simultaneously

bobafett
12-16-2002, 07:51 PM
cool, got it! :) thanks!

cruznz
12-16-2002, 08:15 PM
.....:cool: no prob......:smokin:

Sean
12-17-2002, 01:23 PM
ok folks heres the deal.ill be opening a groupd buy for the 1227727 ecm with DIS and wiring harness and most sensor for $650 inside the next 90 days. depending on a few things i might not be able to include everything depends on buyyers and what not. this is a project for those who are gonna seriously mod there engines. hopefully this will enable me to develope alot of the turbo parts everybodys been looking for.up till now going turbo has been a pita mostly due to spark and fuel management. well thats been solved. i now stand ready to offer up a fully programmed boost ready ecm that you can tune your self( i will privide a base tune for stock engines only). this will work in either non turbo or turbo apps. it can be moved form one honda to another. its not emissions legal as of yet but if i talk justin into running one then we might be able to slip one thru carb if its sniffs clean enough.

whats goona be in the package

programmed eprom for stock engines upto 15psi of boost ( with a zif for easy chip changes)
full wiring harness mostly plug and play
( im still working on VSS altough i think i have a solution)

map sensor
dis module with coils
temp sensor
IAT senso incoming air flow
Iac adpter and iac
knock sensor
crank trigger or cam trigger depends on which is easier

note this is for 1986-87 accord manifolds. i highly suggest you switch over to a 86-87 intake.
i will also provide customer support and all harness and sensors will be tested prior to being shipped as well as ecm's and ignition modules. the is gona take a few small wiring mods on your part which i will outline for both lxi and dx lx cars. if you have a carb car we can talk about the fuel line and fuel pump not a big change. add the new line and change the pump use the old carb feed as a return swap the lxi intake 86-87 and your done pretty easy.
everybody gets to toss the vacum zoo in the garbage.

yaaaaaa

:super:

anyways this is what im offering and this is how much i want i doubt you will find a better system for less anywhere else that can be fixed at any GM dealer in america !

PhydeauX
12-17-2002, 02:19 PM
Something tells me that the gm dealer isn't going to want to touch it ;). You carbed guys can use this as well for an efi swap, you don't have to turbo to use it. Makes things alot easier and you'll get more out of the motor.

andy

cruznz
12-18-2002, 12:57 PM
couple of questions for you Sean.....1/..could you use crankshaft sensor for RPM?......
2/,wouldn't you need camshaft sensor to determine cam and valve position?

3/whats your thoughts on using/adapting an air mass sensor,(ie..hotwire) instead of MAP sensor?

:smokin:

Sean
12-18-2002, 03:21 PM
you could use a MAF( not with this ecm or Code ). i prefer the DIS to be crank trigged its does a pulse count with an offest tooth for TDC. its a waste spark system as long as it knows if one of 2 cylinders is at tdc its fine. any other questions ?

no i dont need a cam sensor unless the motor goes SEFI which its not this is batch fire. altough im sort of dicking around with the idea of using a cranky signal to run a pic or AVR and fire things in bank to bank mode. i dont think its really super feasable. not with my EE skills anyways lots of programming to be done there. ive thought about using a ignition module to run a bank to bank board but there really is no need for any of that.

sean out

cruznz
12-18-2002, 06:31 PM
hmmmm...ok...i think you may have misunderstood my questions,....nevertheless,good luck with your projects

Sean
12-18-2002, 09:43 PM
sorry ive had the flu all day i did in fact misread your questions. yes if you wanted to play with scaller and table values it would be possiable to use a MAF however i dont think its a good idea. code was not written for that.

yes the crank trigger will run the dis pack. the dis pack will spit out a ref pulse to the ecm. also you could use the ref pulse to run the tachometer. if so desired i belive the dis pack also has a tach output and so does the ecm.

as for the cam sensor. no not needed. the system is batch fire fire once every four ref pulses. this output is taken from the dis moudle. the module is pretty simple it uses a cnaks trigger wheel to count pulses then determines if cylinders 1-3 are at tdc. then it performs time based calcualtions to determine if the cylinders 2-4 are at tdc. it counts pulses and uses one offset tooth to arrive at tdc for 1-3. pretty simple.

if you have more tech questions email me. as for parts availability overseas shouldnt be trouble. they did sell alot of gm car over there. should be able to get ecms and 4 cyl DIS coil pack. the 2 bar map sensor could come form just about anything as well.

cruznz
12-19-2002, 12:38 AM
no need for apologies Sean,sorry to hear you got the flu,...
I see your reasoning as far as the maf sensor goes....and cam sensor.....i asked about crank sensor as to whether you could incorporate a VSS with it
hope you're feeling better when you read this...lol...get well soon mate...

Sean
12-19-2002, 04:07 PM
the vss im still working on im thinking a axle mounted reluctor. car runs fine without it hoiwever.

bobafett
12-19-2002, 04:12 PM
OMFG i wish i had a clue what you guys were talking about... :)

Sean
12-22-2002, 07:31 AM
ttt for another week,.

Sean
12-25-2002, 09:06 PM
137 veiws and nobodys asking when ? would be nice to see some interest guys. if you are interested please pot. id like to hear comments feedback questions. etc etc etc.

MoonScryer
12-25-2002, 09:27 PM
You heard mine in message. So bump for this. I'm interested at this point.

89AccordNate
12-26-2002, 07:19 PM
Uhm, im going with a NO on this project. If guys here had $650 to drop on their car, they wouldnt buy this first. This is a system that only justin could use. Most here dont have the dough to drop for a system thats so complicated even (the real) einstein would be going "what the fuck are you talking about". Its just to complicated for the normal everyday driver like most of us are. The fact is that we are dumb and if we cant understand it in writing, then how in the hell are we going to understand the system with no one there to go "This is molecular diode recessitator?" $650 is steep within itself, and then to have a system thats unreliable just because we dont know what the hell to do with it, ahhhhhhh im going with a "Your fucked on this project, sir"

Nate.

KMS
12-27-2002, 03:54 PM
WoW Thats Harsh.

Sean
12-29-2002, 06:06 AM
hey nate go fuck a goat. im so sick of your anti productive posts. this was to check interest. and no your calling GM electronics unreliable. let me clue you in this efi setup is 1000x easier to work on and diagnose. the elimination of the vacum zoo, the simplified wiring. get over yourself. if your to stupid to understand teh topic thats fine. but dont fucking rain on everybody else cuase your a dickhead.

89AccordNate
12-29-2002, 08:09 AM
I was speaking for the crowd, OBVIOUSLY. LOok how many responses this post has gotten?

I wait and see to judge my responses believe it or not, and obviously im the one thats right here.

85% of the posts were negative and had little to no interest in the subject lines.

Nate.

Sean
12-29-2002, 10:08 AM
hmm nate i dont understand how you became the authority on the subject of Fuel and spark managment.maybe if more people would grasp a better attitude of how to do it that would be swell. but with derogitory posts like this your not helping but hindering the process. the idea is how much would a haltech system cost ?? i can tell you about 3x as much. and this is something for a few bones you can program yourself. also it support turbo and can be ported to any 4 cylinder honda engine. so if you headed for a teg then you can move all the stuff to a teg. your just simple man.

Sean
12-29-2002, 10:09 AM
oh nate and when the CROWD speak for itself that another issue. go blow your own horn. personally i think your just jealous.

89AccordNate
12-29-2002, 02:44 PM
Yes I am so jealous because SO MANY people responded with such positive responses and it looks like there are so many quotes of "WOW, THATS GREAT, THE CHECK IS IN THE MAIL!"

I see none, I win..you lose.

Nate.

Sean
12-29-2002, 08:15 PM
what did you win ?? a ride to loserville???. do you have any idea what this means for us as a community ?? i highly doubt it. the limits that once exsited for forced induction are gone. we can now run turbos for a fraction of the cost of a haltech motec austronic and even a holley system. this is the whole enchilida sensors adpaters everything. try to do that with a aftermarket system. i think i know what the issue really is. people are cheap. you want something for free. well becuase people like nate keep popping up and no one seems interested people who have conversed with me via IM wil be able to get on but other then that no more. im done trying to contribute.

AccordEpicenter
01-05-2003, 08:52 PM
What do you need to program these chips? Im somewhat familiar with embedded systems programming... Do you need a prom burner or somthing? Im trying to figure out a way to run huge boost (18-20 psi) on the factory ecm... im a believer in the honda computer and think it can be done. I am personally working on a servo controlled advance/retard mechanism based on the map but i need the pinout on the lxi ecm.... who has it

AccordEpicenter
01-05-2003, 08:56 PM
Oh wait i forgot im also seeing if its possible to fool the engine sensors (map and temp for now) into richening/leaning the mixture referenced to engine rpm and somehow piggyback it to the honda ecm, so you could tune your mixture in rpm steps instead of as a whole....



SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST!!!

gofast
01-06-2003, 12:50 PM
how much boost will a stock CPU. allow in a LX-i

A20A1
01-06-2003, 02:16 PM
There is an ecu replacement already made that will support a turbo and above 15 boost pressure... maybe as high as 20 if my memory serves me right. You'll have to contact sean. for the details. also do a search... and browse the project central forum. :D

PROJECT CENTRAL
http://www.3geez.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26

PhydeauX
01-06-2003, 02:53 PM
The stock computer won't support boost, you would have to fool it. Do it right, talk to sean, get a reprogramed gm ecu. I don't think he's to the production phase just yet, but I do know he has a prototype up and running and he is quite happy with it.

andy

Sean
01-06-2003, 03:21 PM
i think your really wasting your time with this particular honda ecm. the servo control would be way to slow to take care of detonation. the GM ecm has all of these advantages it has a knock sensor it can run DIS wh8ich means no more distrbutor caps rotors or other BS. its got mondo advantages. if youd like help in converting or would like to aquire needed odds and ends drop me an email. and it can read upto 20psi of boost in stock untouched code format and with a few small changes it can run 3 4 bar maps sensors. im working on adding adition fuel and timing maps the new code has enough room to do so and it makes tunning much eaiser.

Sean
01-06-2003, 03:51 PM
im happy with it but its getting better. ive been able to really dig into gm's bag of goodies and pull some stuff outa my ass. like DIS or direct igntion system. this get rid of the ditributor and allows for one unbeliebably hot spark something along the lines of 45kilo volts at 7000rpm. ive got a weatherproof ecm and a new batch driver board that fires upto 90pph injectors.shits in the works give it time. its also one of those supply demand deals im not gonna hurry up until i get like a bunch of emaisl from people begging for it.

the systems will run around $650 with all teh hardware and software. im working on writing my own rom editor for distrobution with the ecms. o cant distribute the one im using to hack them its copywrighted but i have a good bit of leeway with the company i hack with i might be able to swing a group buy deal on it. ill price it out for a locked one TDF version to see what they say.

anyways until interest pick ups im not in a rush. however justin has been on my ass pretty hardcore so i might get the ball rolling a bit quicker for the 2 of us.
and no Stock honda ecm can support boost without a piggy back which is a redicuslou way to handle fuel and timing.

belive me by the time you buy the MSD BTM and all the other bullshit you could have the system im selling and be safe to 15psi. if you want more boost thats gonna cost more money.

basically due to hardware changes in the system. costs go up. but its easily expandeable. toss me an email we can talk at length.

AccordEpicenter
01-07-2003, 09:40 AM
Sounds good, can you mod the fuel maps if youre starting to lean out or somthing? Also how hard is it to run this ecu, how long does it take to install and how much does it cost.

Sean
01-07-2003, 12:22 PM
yes the gm ecm can be reprogrammed. yes you can add fuel change timing etc. it is capable of being 100% emisions complaint and can control egr valves etc. they whole system is gonna run around $650 with everything you need to put it on. installs on efi cars should take roughly 4-5hrs or basically a weekend. on a carb car figure 2 weekends due to the other fuel system needs etc. plus all 88-89 car owner should swithc to the 86-87 intake manifold. it runs better

gofast
01-08-2003, 08:19 AM
sean whats your email

Sean
01-08-2003, 09:06 AM
[email protected]

AccordEpicenter
01-09-2003, 01:23 PM
What sensors that arent stock will i have to wire in for the gm ecm? I mean, do i have to change my map to a gm map, o2 sensor and distributor sensor.. and what else? I can get away with honda injectors still right? Also has somebody already ran the system on one of their cars and how good did it run/how hard was it to get it to run good? Sorry for so many qs i just wanna get a serious idea of the work involved before i start

Sean
01-09-2003, 01:55 PM
lol man im already doing all the development work. there will be minimal wiring. maybe 4-5 splices and 3 solders joints dpending on manual automatic. the code will be ready to go. the driveability is already there. i drive it roughly 400 miles a week. im swithcing to another gm ecm so i can use the DIS or direct igntion system from gm. i dont like the accord dizzy lots of headaches.


aside form all of that it comes with sensors,wiring harness,ecm etc.

AccordEpicenter
01-09-2003, 09:28 PM
But you can retard timing with that ecm? Do you have to switch distributor sensors and get another ignition for that to work?

Sean
01-09-2003, 09:44 PM
no all timing is handled in the code you command advanve vs manifold pressure.. ill post a gm ecm tunning faq but now isnt the time.

AccordEpicenter
01-12-2003, 12:34 AM
Ok ive been looking into engine managemant for running lots of boost and the best thing for the money i can see right now is the Haltech E6k programmable ecu. It can control everything (fuel, ignition and boost) and its easily programmed and real time mods are possible so you can tune it when the engine is running to get the engine right. As far as I can see it sounds like the best choice for engine managemant running boost. Only downside is price ($1500). How do you guys feel about that route? I think the gm ecu swap is viable too but you cant do real time changes and tuning couldnt be easier than this stuff, and would prolly be easier to install too...

Sean
01-12-2003, 08:59 AM
haltech ek6 sucks i can show you how to get realtime tunning and data logging fairly inexspsneisvely. you gotta ask man. plus the GM stuff is far more drievability oreinted.

AccordEpicenter
01-12-2003, 10:01 AM
Sean, you can make real time changes to the GM ecu? I thought you needed to re program the eprom to make changes to the fuel maps? The thing that i liked about the haltech is that you could manage your boost from it... Also... i have an idea about fast idle... can you block off the warm idle valve(the one with the cooling lines going to it on the manifold that plugs into the wiring harness) and then use just the cold idle valve for fast idle, because it will close when the coolant gets up to temp. That sounds better to me than trying to adapt other valves to fit... then just fool the ecu so it doesnt give a check engine light

Sean
01-12-2003, 07:36 PM
ill get you a link to my current ecm setup. it has idle control, egr control, boot wastegate control, fuel control, timing control, the list goes on. also with an emulator it can be reprogrammed just about in realtime. also im gonna send out base bin for the a20a you wont have to work this from scratch yourself. and in teh mean time ill also be working on 3bar bins and otehr such fun. it should be pretty straight forward. also the gm ecm does see bost.

Justanothermike
01-12-2003, 11:24 PM
check out the AEM EMS its very easy to tune for boost, uses all factory sensors, wide band o2 is optional, and is cheaper i believe

Sean
01-13-2003, 07:41 AM
yet again AEM is not able to be made emisions compliant something im working very hard towards. there is an epa testing lab right in lansing michigan 15minutes from me. if i can get them to sign off on it then ive got it made.AEM has no DIS so all the distributor problem that hamper the accord are still there.

AccordEpicenter
01-13-2003, 11:21 AM
yeah i wanted to get away from that, aem makes great stuff but i think itd be a half asked approach for what we are trying to do... the ignition control we need is a big deal when running boost

Sean
01-13-2003, 12:56 PM
yes and the problem is the dizzy gets out of balance when you lock the advance cuasing all sorts of issues. by the time i had the dizzys balanced i could have the triggers mad and to me the DIS is worht more then the disitributor. it sucks anyways and has horriable crossfire issue. plus there alot of AEM harware not included in the price of the ecu like ignition moduels ETC.

AccordEpicenter
01-13-2003, 09:03 PM
Well i wasnt planning on using the distributor to fire the plugs, just for triggering, and the DIS looks better. What do you mean about the dizzy? Are you referring to the reluctor? How can that screw up the triggers? Also when running the GM ecu do you have to change the triggers and reluctor and if you do how do u use the tach then?

Sean
01-13-2003, 09:08 PM
there is no more distributor with the DIS system. gone, bye bye, no more pudding for you, asta la vista baby. get the picture. i put a wheel on the crank and it has teeth. the DIS module counts those teeth and sends out a tach signal to the ECM and the tach. stop thinking just wait all will be revealed in due time. thing no more distributor caps ahhh no more rotors and when you lock the mechanical adavcne mechanism out on the stock distributor it knock it out of balance which cuase false triggering( im already fighting this battle)

AccordEpicenter
01-14-2003, 10:18 AM
so the 749 ecm from the turbo sunbird is the one for turbo apps? Can you get the tables from one of those and just get an ecu from a cyclone and reprogram? BTW accords do have a vss... i found one the other day.

Sean
01-14-2003, 10:31 AM
i know about the accord vss i had to build a small buffer box. you can use a 1227749 with a dizzy but it takes work. also the syt/ty code leave lots to be desired in term of driveability. thats why the big switch to the 727 and $8f. email if youd like to talk in more detail this conversation will quickly go over most peoples heads.

3G Jester
02-05-2003, 07:06 PM
Whats this about turbo?
does justin (turboaccord) have a different chip? to controlhis turbo? Or is he using the stock chip/wiring...

Sean
02-24-2003, 03:14 PM
well folks as the time draws nearer i keep getting closer and closer. ive pretty much gotten the PT and WOT day in and day out tunnign done with the GM stuff. im prety sure ive picked up a TON of HP in the Process. Andy its way faster now then when you rode in it last. once i get this donw ill swap in the newer ECM with DIS and port the tables over then start with the boost stuff.

have question for you guys. me and justin have uniqe needs and i think most of you would do well with a tune for upto 15 psi ?? is that enough ? im sure without the turbo the motor is making roughly 140hp-150 at the flywheel with the gm ecm alone. for comparison i can torch the tire from a standing stop just mashing the gas pedal. and its an automatic. there stock EFI and carb tunnings do not even begin to touch the surface !

so here it is tell me what you want parts are looming around the corners.

2old_honda
02-24-2003, 03:28 PM
I want a b16 head with one of these ECM's. that would be :cool:

AccordEpicenter
02-25-2003, 12:05 AM
i was thinking about going with low boost set up, like 7 psi, and then thinking about wether i wanna go to nearly 22 psi, but id have to start putting alot of money into the engine after 7 psi so im not sure what i want to ultimatley go for. My q is how hard is it to make it run 20+ psi? do you have to just expand the fuel tables or do you have to do serious stuff like swap eproms or somthing? BTW have you worked out the costs for the gm conversion yet?

Sean
02-25-2003, 07:26 AM
yeah gm ecm with harness all parts looks around 650 or so might be less could be a tad bit more.the setupos ill be sending out are gonna be good for stock motors running upto 15psi of boost. of course over 10psi pistons are in order. but the chip will be there. sometime late spring ill be ready for 30psi. but thats a ways away.

a couple of enhancments so far are DIS no more distributor. watreproff ECM and a off ECM injector driver board. the off ECM driver pack will run upto 110pph injectors. sometime in teh comming year i will have a sequential setup upgrade as well as coil on plug. so thatll be like winter of 2003. ive almost finished all the tunning on the honda so once i get the crank triggers its just a matter of touch up work. alrighty then ill ttyl. id like to hear feedback. also i can do non boost applications as well but what id like is for somebody to buy a system and bring it here for the final tweaks with a cam and headers etc. any takers ?

Sean
02-25-2003, 07:29 AM
sometime in teh comming year i will have a sequential setup upgrade as well as coil on plug. so thatll be like winter of 2003.

this is just a tech upgrade the basic package can be used. the sequential stuff will be an add on.all upgrade will work with the core ecm and chips. no reason not to get in now. could be a year or more before this stuff is ready !!

88' Accord Ltd
02-25-2003, 01:00 PM
What exactly do we have to change to get this to run on our stock motors properly?

bobafett
02-25-2003, 01:01 PM
hey i have been talking to people, and i am pretty sure i want to join the turbo club. for now i will be running low boost, like 6psi... so i can garantee that until i build the engine 15psi is WAAAAAY plenty...

i'm very interested in this mod, and assuming my turbo project starts coming together, i am DEFINETLY interested this time around. i'm glad you are making progress, please keep us posted, i get pumped everytime i read your ECM update threads!

Sean
02-25-2003, 04:30 PM
well the tune is there. its the hardware im waiting on now. also come early spring ill have turbo headers for sale. for dodge t3 turbos. those are gonna run about $250. im trying to fin somebody to make down pipes and cat backs. ill find somebody here in mich to do it.

Rich87HB
02-25-2003, 05:37 PM
i think what your doing is great sean!! Sounds like it will be a big step for the 3g perfomance enthusiast. What i was wondering is what parts did you use from GM?? The reason i ask is that i work for a GM dealership and i MIGHT be able to get the parts cheaper i understand if u dont want to reveal your secrets since it sounds like you have spent alot of time and effort into this project but maybe u can point me in the right direction. Thanks