Who makes valve springs?

[Johnny O]

I need a set of valve springs for my car?Who makes them for our cars?A20A3.Need to rev car higher and not have valve float.The higher you rev car the more power you can make with a turbo.If you could give name of company and phone# will be much helpful.
THANK YOU

[Eric89Carb.]

it will be hard to find but i think i can help a little. well if you look in side where the valveare one side has dual spring the one inside you can use on the other side with little custom i think i did it to mine and i have a mild cam and it works fine.. So you will have to find i think 8 more inner springs or you can buy it honda dealer it is cheap i hope that will help

[shepherd79]

I need a set of valve springs for my car?Who makes them for our cars?A20A3.Need to rev car higher and not have valve float.The higher you rev car the more power you can make with a turbo.If you could give name of company and phone# will be much helpful.
THANK YOU

oh it is not nessasery to rev it high to get power.
it is all about what kind cam and what kind turbo you have.
i don't see a reason to rev it past 6.5K on our engines. you can get the cam that will push it past that but what is the point. you can get a cam that will as much as high reving cam at low RPM.

[88LXi68]

oh it is not nessasery to rev it high to get power.
it is all about what kind cam and what kind turbo you have.
i don't see a reason to rev it past 6.5K on our engines. you can get the cam that will push it past that but what is the point. you can get a cam that will as much as high reving cam at low RPM.

Why are you talking to Johnny like he is a noob? As far as I am concerned, his car is in the 10s, if he wants valve springs that let the car rev higher why question him?

Johnny, why not try some B-series ones to begin with?

[shepherd79]

i don't care what his car runs, i am just saying that here are no reason to rev. that high.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Let us not be tempted to hurl stones from up hi.

What if he has reached the output limit of the turbo he is running? What if he doesn't have the physical space to place a larger turbo? What if his manifold design has pinned him into such a space limitation? More rev's would be a sensicle way to get more boost if said turbo is giving out it's max attainable boost level at current rev limit.

Let's not see this post go where past threads by Johnny O have gone. Next sentance is a pre-emptive comment, for something that has not happened,..........yet. Remember, ALL members are held to the same member conduct rules.

[PhydeauX]

If the archives of the old boards still exist somewhere there was a guy along time ago (I believe on the second ezboard) who had valve springs, titanium retainers, rods, pistons, the whole nine yards. I forget who it was or even if they are still around. I can't remember who he got the springs from or what aplication they were actually for. I believe he sent some springs off to a manufacturer and had them match something up. Sorry for the somwhat useless post, but there is something that exists, you just have to find it.

andy

[NXRacer]

Sean has a whole head package that has a whole new valve train. I'm sure he knows of upgrade springs and stuff.

[Johnny O]

I now rev the car to 7400 and the turbo is still making power and than I encounter valve float.I am not asking what anybody thinks on how high to rev my car,but just if there is anybody that makes springs.This will help with sending valves and springs to different manufactors.Matter a fact I lanuch the car at 6000 , so I need to rev the car higher.

[shepherd79]

have you tried calling diff places such as Edelbrock or iskycams.com

[k-roy]

Do you have the measurements for the A20 springs and retainers?

You might be able to use these:
http://www.crower.com/cat/import/honda/valvetrain.shtml
http://www.cranecams.com/import/toc.htm
http://edelbrock.com/automotive/sport_compact/index.html

I don't think anyone makes performance aftermarket springs and retainers specificly for the A20. Good for you for reving high. Valve float sucks. From what I have read dual springs are the way to go.

[guaynabo89]

JG Engine dynamics use to have them for their race heads. That was back in the early to mid 90's though.

Gonna have to go the route of custom fabrication and adapting stuff to fit. Thats what I had to do and its worked fine.

Iknow what your looking for though, somethiing that would drop right in but face it nothing drops right in on the a20's.

[Sean]

johnny. to run a higher tensoins spring youll have to goto a different vavle, valve guide,vavle seat and different retianers and keepers. also finding a machine shop to do the work is gonna be a bitch. i shoud know ive spent alot of time looking for the machine shop i do business with now. there are no simple fixes. but changing to different vavle gear, lighter retianens and spring and keepers is a great way to rev it. im sure i could put something together or help point you in tyhe right direction to run upto 8500 without float. maybe a bit more. bigger question is why are you reving it so high ?

[Sabz5150]

johnny. to run a higher tensoins spring youll have to goto a different vavle, valve guide,vavle seat and different retianers and keepers. also finding a machine shop to do the work is gonna be a bitch. i shoud know ive spent alot of time looking for the machine shop i do business with now. there are no simple fiexs. but changing to different vavle gear, lighter retianens and spring and keepers is a great way to rev it. im sure i could put something together or help point you in tyhe right direction to run upto 8500 without float. maybe a bit more. bigger question is why are you reving it so high ?


You can tune the engine to make power up there. I guess he wants to, being a pure drag car. I wouldn't mind being able to rev to 8K, at least to find out when my cam stops offering power.

[Sean]

all the grind avaible to us now maybe max out at 7000rpm tops. there is no reason to run the engine at those speeds. i mean youll need a hella port flow to support that rpm and without alot of $$$$ head work you aint gonna get it there making anything resembeling power. so there are 2 options. he can contact me and ill help him build a good head. or he can try to lighten valvtrian up with some custom retianers. pull wieght out of the valve train is the best way to do this. but you have to remover alot of wieght. and going to thinner valve stems etc is a fantastic way to do this. but you have to find a machine shop willing to get the insetrs rework the seat custom grind the valve and setup the vales and spring heights. on a head most machine shops hardly ever work on.

[rjudgey]

there is light at the end of the tunnel! i've been using stock honda springs, platforms, retainers and valves etc on my heads for last two years and have never had valve float, the best springs to use are the exhaust valve spring from accord, with the inner spring from a prelude exhaust spring, the valve retainers and platforms are from a u.k or jdm spec 1st gen prelude or late model 2 g accord, the heads i got mine from have a casting number of PD5 and HF-B used a twin choke downdraught and had 12 valves and no cvcc. these will withstand 8000rpm as my engine is regularily turned over to 8k, my cam is a custom profile from pipercams in u.k which are world leaders in cam profiles. also the head is fully modified for race flow.
a more expensive but better and easier way is to buy a set of exhaust valves, get them machined down to 32/31mm, have guides reemed out to match stem size, reduce the neck that sticks out into the port area and have backs re-profiled for better flow,3 angle race seats 1mm size seats, 27/28mm throat area match ports to that, get extra exhaust valve platforms x8 plus collets, retainers, these will all slip onto the inlet side without a hitch. add race cam and say hello to high rpms! might want seans con rods for sustained 8k-9k rpm though haven't broken one yet but better to be safe than sorry! high rpms on a budget!

[Johnny O]

SEAN once again I am not looking for your opinon on how high to rev car or what i should do.The machine shop I deal with could do anything.I have my only porting guy.Lets go back to the ? ,Who makes a valvetrain of us?rjudgey thanks for the info.

[Sean]

SEAN once again I am not looking for your opinon on how high to rev car or what i should do.The machine shop I deal with could do anything.I have my only porting guy.Lets go back to the ? ,Who makes a valvetrain of us?rjudgey thanks for the info.



Well obviously you dont understand your problem. and i told you to lighten the valvetrain. I just got home from a nice dyno break in sesion with my new street motor and it put out 350hp at 6500rpm at 16 psi of boost with a t3 s60 turbo. I have just a smidgen of insight. IF YOU DONT WANT ADVICE FROM PEOPLE DONT ASK FOR IT.

I told you what you would need to rev to 8000rpm. You need to lighten the valve train. you obviously dont want to spend money and build the engine the right way. So heres what im going to suggest.

get the stems undercut. ( good advice rjudgey) use the stiffer exhuast valve springs. get some titanium retianers made. and machine some material off of the rokers arms to balance them on the pivot point. Although this seems odd to do balacning them over the pivot makes them appear to wiegh less raising the rpm for spring oscilation or ( valve float)

and as i stated before if you dont want advice dont ask for it. there are no off the shelf solutions. I have engineered plenty of other parts to fit and work but yet agian in your infinite wisdom ( 35psi for 350hp) you have decided you know more then everybody else.

Also have you tried the search function ? you know pick up the telephone and call somebody like say crower manely or lunati or comp cams ? i mean get a pair of dial calipers and use you head.

[mykwikcoupe]

I am not sure if this what you are looking or but as I live so close to boeing of seattle. There is a company here called renton coil springs. hey custom make any spring you can think of to your specs. Ive had them make me a few springs for my cars. A little spendy but excellent quality and workmanship.

http://www.rentoncoilspring.com/

Hope this helps. either way there it is

[Johnny O]

Sean you are right but I know about everything you said is true,I am looking for a company that makes the stuff for us.So I do not have to wait to get things custom made if someone already makes them.You need to stop talking to people like they are dumb.I did not get were I am at right now by mistake.

[BootMachine]

YOu may need more than just valve springs to get the A20A to rev higher but hey....try it out and see what happens!

Eibach has a set of valve springs....you can get some made...also I have a box of old ones you can use of you need!

[NXRacer]

since when has EIBACH made motor parts????

[Sean]

Sean you are right but I know about everything you said is true,I am looking for a company that makes the stuff for us.So I do not have to wait to get things custom made if someone already makes them.You need to stop talking to people like they are dumb.I did not get were I am at right now by mistake.


nobody said you were dumb. your just not listening very well. i have way more info on this engine then i can shake a stick at ive spent 5yrs collecting it. i could tell you exactly what in the valve seat to change on a stock head to get 10cfm.

i just made as much power
as your making 330flywheel to run 10.89 at 127mph with the 2000lb minimum and the drag coe for the car. and i did it with less boost and less rpm. im trying to help you. but since your so stuck on doing it your way hey what ever floats your boat. if you want info email me. and yes there are some drop in valve springs if you look into a catalog. but yet again. id spend alot more time porting that head and getting a bigger turbine housing. but like i siad. 350hp at 6500rpm at 16 psi of boost. what could i know.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

IF YOU DONT WANT ADVICE FROM PEOPLE DONT ASK FOR IT.

Also have you tried the search function ? you know pick up the telephone and call somebody like say crower manely or lunati or comp cams ? i mean get a pair of dial calipers and use you head.

But Sean, Johnny's first post does not ask for advise, it specifically ask's for info on what companies make the valve springs, you volunteered the advise and your smart enough to know in advance that your advise giving to him is going to be seen as your desire to try and put him in his place as you see it. Thing is, we see past that. Can't we just all get along.

[Sean]

But Sean, Johnny's first post does not ask for advise, it specifically ask's for info on what companies make the valve springs, you volunteered the advise and your smart enough to know in advance that your advise giving to him is going to be seen as your desire to try and put him in his place as you see it. Thing is, we see past that. Can't we just all get along.

Jim. revving over 7000rpm take alot of valvtrian mods to do it reliably.

[Johnny O]

You see what Jim talking about all I want to know what companies.By the way I am making alot more hp than that.My engine tuner and builder said to much material off a valve is not good on high reving car.

[Sean]

You see what Jim talking about all I want to know what companies.By the way I am making alot more hp than that.My engine tuner and builder said to much material off a valve is not good on high reving car.


No as much as youd like to belive your making more HP your not. every et and MPH hp calculator when applied with your class wieght ( which i verified thru outside means some folkks i know wtahced your car get wieghed the last time you were at the track) and drag coeifiecent. coupled with your actuall mph and ET ( whihc are on target mph vs et) you are lucky if your making over 300WHP and 340hp at the crank. as ive stated before. dont take any info you get from a overestimaterdynojetter with any sort of seriousness.

This mind you was the last combination of parts that you ran for your last pass at ET. and im already making the same power ( depends on the dyno etc and other variances) with half the boost. You really need to focus on the head. and turbine. big HP hiding there.

[Johnny O]

That is great but if you want me to take you serious you need to learn how to spell and try a little proofreading.I am happy you can read books and make statements,but there is no proof of this phantom car and hp.Many people from different states are proof of the car and have seen it run I am waiting to see your mystery car.

['A20A3']

He has a point Sean...I've been here awhile and I have never seen your car on here...

[k-roy]

He has a point Sean...I've been here awhile and I have never seen your car on here...

Geesh, do a search.

http://www.moonscryer.org/accord/sean/highres/

[Johnny O]

I am doing a search and I do not still see it on any other sites,but mine you can see on nhra import and idrc sites.Great I can send and show pictures also.

[Sean]

That is great but if you want me to take you serious you need to learn how to spell and try a little proofreading.I am happy you can read books and make statements,but there is no proof of this phantom car and hp.Many people from different states are proof of the car and have seen it run I am waiting to see your mystery car.

Dude i dont have to prove myself to you. If its taking you 35+ psi of boost to make a measly 350hp at the flywheel something is wrong. Obviously compared to other engines Incuding B series etc the Boost to HP ratio your getting is way off the mark. If you think I'm qouting a book that's hilarious. Ive been around longer then dirt and i have ( as far as i know ) the fastest daily driven 3g around. Do me a favor and drive your car from conneticut to florida.Call me when you get there. Mind you i dont drive like a pussy either. I think that fact remians ive proven time and time again when i make a statement i can back it up. If you want proof of my car dont worry. she will be there to great you come spring.

Its not a big deal to go low 11's high 10's in a stripped out race car. I tried numerous times to point this out to you. if anything judging from the last pics i saw of your car youve got a t4/t3 and its speced out like so

to4e .57 trim compressor housing with a .60 a/r
and a t3 stage 1 turbine with a .48 a/r exhuast housing.

first your not making power over 4500rpm with a turbine housing even remotely that small to make power over 6000 rpm youll need a

.63 a/r t3 housing with a stage 3 wheel. at a bare minimum. and to make power upstairs of that id highly suggest ither a 10 blade turbonetics turbine wheel with the stage 3 housing in a .63 a/r or goto a .80 a/r with the stage 3 wheel. but that will only buy you time to say 7500 rpm or so. then youll need a stage 5 wheel with a .63 a/r to go over 7500 rpm.

as for a compressor. seriously a .57 trime t04e will make enough ppm at 100,000rpm at 70% effeicnecy itll flow just over 43 pounds enough to make around 450 hp. a goal ill doubt youll meet with your current exhuast housing situation. your exhuast manifold pressure must be over 50 psi to need 35 psi of boost to make 350 hp.

So belive what im telling you. your not running into valve float at 7200rpm. your getting into turbine housing oscilation. I know ive had 2 motors that were N/A that made over 200hp. both reved to better then 7500rpm.

And call manely. i guess ill be nice. a few import springs will fit with minor machine work.

[Sean]

I am doing a search and I do not still see it on any other sites,but mine you can see on nhra import and idrc sites.Great I can send and show pictures also.


I dont drag race at the track. unless its a test and tune night. Im a street racer but maybe ill run a series this year. problem is theres just not enough money in it for me to race anywhere but on the street. not only that. i actually drive my car everyday. so maybe i will finish the other car funds permiting.

[Johnny O]

You do not have to prove anything to me but to to everyone else you are givihg advice to.Great keep on guessing my turbo and setup.If you are in Florida tracks are always open show something.I would not waste the gas or time for you.That is all I asked for the company name.You are finally getting the point and see a little proofreadingand spelling makes it easier to read.Also it is valve float but you know everything.

[Johnny O]

You can have fun at the track and make alittle bit of money also and not loose your car or life or someone elses.

[Sean]

You do not have to prove anything to me but to to everyone else you are givihg advice to.Great keep on guessing my turbo and setup.If you are in Florida tracks are always open show something.I would not waste the gas or time for you.That is all I asked for the company name.You are finally getting the point and see a little proofreadingand spelling makes it easier to read.Also it is valve float but you know everything.


Sure its valve float. Keep beliving that i know of a car just around 4 hrs from where you live that revs to 7500 with a pair of weber dcoes carbs with stock 175,000 mile valve springs. geuss what. no valve float. You think im geussing your turbo setup like its sueprior to my own ? lol. I can tell from the boost to performance ratio your turbo selection isnt well thought out.

I asked you to email me. . you must not have a very resourceful engine builder. You could have easily did what i did 4 yrs or so ago and figured out who made valve spirngs that were similar enough to use. open a catalog. the raw specs are right there. a pair of dial calipers and 15 minutes of looking thorugh the catalog would have netted you an answer.

Do you even know the diameter of your valve stems ? Do you know what the deck hieght of your engine is ? what about the exhuast valve meteiral or seat material ? Do you know what the crank is made from ? or the overbore needed for cleanup ?

I hate to see people ask questions like these. Use the freaking search function. your brian

Also the statement you made

With a turbo you rev higher to make mroe HP.

actually you dont have to rev at all.considering Tq moves the car. formula for hp

TQ x RPM / 5250

hence

289.0 x 6500 / 5250 = 357 hp

i made that on my first dyno pull at 16 psi of boost. Made over 250ft lbs of TQ from 3000rpm on up.

thats enough power to propel your car to 10.70 actually. since you class minimum with driver is 2000lbs (yes i read the rule book) im not sure where this motor will end up. we will seei guess. and this is my street engine.

[Johnny O]

I guess you know my tq readings on the dyno which is not reliable according to you.So if dyno's are no go I wonder were or how reliable are your readings.I was just thinking if dynojets are not reliable why does every race sanction uses them.Come to think about it I have done alot of research on our motors for other things,if memory serves me right you have generaeded a motor in the beginning but I have not yet so I must be doing somethind right.N/A motors do not put that much strain on valvetrain like a tubo motor.

[Johnny O]

Spelling and proofreading is getting better,good job.This board is here to answer ?'s of everyone.You might think it is stupid ?'s what they are good ones.

[Sean]

I guess you know my tq readings on the dyno which is not reliable according to you.So if dyno's are no go I wonder were or how reliable are your readings.I was just thinking if dynojets are not reliable why does every race sanction uses them.Come to think about it I have done alot of research on our motors for other things,if memory serves me right you have generaeded a motor in the beginning but I have not yet so I must be doing somethind right.N/A motors do not put that much strain on valvetrain like a tubo motor.

Jezz your full of assumptions. Turbos dont put strees on the valvetrian IE valvespring harmonics. which is what valve float is. Its a valve spring harmonic. that is a FQ where the spring can no longer dampen the valvetrian motion.as rpm goes up so does the FQ. Ive had the pleasure of getting some spintron testing done. the stock springs crap out at 7600 rpm with a stock lift cam.

the only stress on the valvetrian would be from heat. and then again the a20a head has such a nice seat that it stays pretty cool. i have yet to burn a valve.

Revving the engine isnt really needed though. a 3.5 inch stroke makes a good bit of TQ. You need to focus on airflow. that will net you more power. The cam profile can help alot to. considering ive made over 200+ whp at 13 psi with no intercoolr and pump gas and people have seen this car just eat other cars with ease. yeah i can back my numbers up.

dyno jets are notrious for overcalculating HP. and if you want a short disertation id be glad to give you one right here.

The typical dynojet drum wieghs 4000lbs. once that mass is in motion IE youve overcome the moment of inertia it take less effort to spin it. the more kinetic and potential energy stored in the drum IE higher speed the easier it becomes to accelerate it.

The problem is that the dyno jet( non eddy current loadable models) cant maintian a given level of resistance. so as your TQ output goes up the acuracy of the dyno jet goes down.

now a mustang dyno ( the 1750 De in particular ) adds a real load to the drivetrian., the drag coeficent and the frontal area plus the wieght of the car and the driver are inputed into the computer. The computer then calculates the amount of eddy current to use to sustain a real world load on the engine. now the interesting part about this is the fact that it holds this load.

Why hold the load ? well becuase if you cant impose real aerodynamic and friction forces on the vehicle then you cant possiably calculate accurate HP.

while the dynojet is just a big spiining top. the mustang is an actual dyno. Most engine dynos ( like the superflow ) ive got my engine bolted to right now can actuall create load in the case of the suprflow dyno its a water brake. load is important. with out being able to sustain load then you cant possiably figure out TQ output. Without TQ output those HP calculations are junk.

So as i siad. go get a pull on mustang 650 or better dyno with an eddy current brake. then give me a real HP number. but your last pass's

10.89 at 127mph thats matching right up to what 300whp in a 2000lb car with a good driver should be doing. and judging by the MPH and ET your getting a good 60ft time to. so the car is pretty much peaked out.

[Bronx89lx]

Any how johnny my man i got the info i will pm u wit it.You know alot of people on this board are full of shit. You ask a simple question and u get critizism. And the funny thing is that the people who are doing it are broke or aint doing shit with there cars i find that funny.LOL sad.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Oh brother, since were not going to get imput on the original question and we are not going to hash this all about any more or worse then we already have,........thread is closed.