Post Valve Job , Now 2G Won't Start

[it's paid for]

Hello,

Here's an update for those of you who aren't familiar with my project:

2G Accord
Put it back together after getting the head worked
Removed all a/c stuff forward of firewall
Removed the vacuum lines
Won't start

I'm not sure if this is a carb or ignition/timing problem but it won't start.

This car uses a 3 barell, 2 stage carb and I think it's really messed up after I accidently removed two nipples and filled them in with . . . some type of metallic epoxy the guy at the auto parts store sold me . . . everything is capped off except one original line going to the distributor . . . and two fuel lines coming from the fuel filter . . .

. . . when I try to start the engine after a while you can smell gasoline and if you look down into the center barell you can see a puddle of gas at the bottom at the flap/valve . . . if you reach around and manuallly pull on the throttle cable, the center butterfly valve/flap doesn't open . . . I thought the operation of the center valve/flap was supposed to open automatically after the first stage opens up somewhat . . . I was told on an earlier thread that the operation of this 2nd stage is dependent on some sort of vacuum pressure I probably have stopped up . . .


. . . another problem might be the distributor timing . . . I'm almost 100% sure when I removed the distributor the flat spot on the shaft was lined up perpendicular with the ignitor side . . . I have photos of this & I removed the distributor when the engine was at TDC #1 . . . on page 258 of my Haynes manual it says: "Fig. 14.7 On a Toyo Denso type distributor, align the flat side of the rotor shaft with the ignitor . . . then line up the marks on the gear and housing and install the roll pin" . . . does this have to do with reassembly of the distributor or does it have to do with alignment of the rotor?

. . . and . . . there are two sets of timing marks . . . one is TDC for #1 cylinder and the other is for some sort of ignition timing indicator - right? . . . which timing mark am I supposed to use when installing and aligning the distributor rotor pointing at #1 plug wire connector?

Assuming I can get the ignition timing fixed, shouldn't the car run if only the first stage of carburetion is working?

I'm pretty sure the car is close to starting. My darling wife gave me the green light to get a new carburetor if I need one. I just want dependability . . . to me, it's not worth trying to squeeze out more performance from such a low horsepower engine . . .

. . . besides . . . I have 17 inch rims already picked out . . .

Thanks,

IPF

[it's paid for]

I think I'll just order a 32-36 DGEV kit and be done with it . . . it's only $352 delivered, and includes linkage, filter, blah, blah, blah . . . this should work and I'm tired of wasting my time . . . anyone have a great east coast source for this Weber conversion kit?

Am I gonna have to cut a hole in my hood?

Thanks,

IPF

[PhydeauX]

Didn't I suggest that a while ago? I got mine from some place in new york, but it doesn't really matter. It'll have to be shiped no matter where it comes from so go for the best price. I rebuilt my 83's carb twice, it was a waste of time.

andy

[rocky2]

3 major issuses must be met: fuel compression spark


Take a spare spark plug and vise grip it to the engine somewhere (grounded)where you could see electrode .............now take a wire off one plug and attach it to this test plug turn engine over.....look at electrode is it sparking?

Take a plug out of engine and turn engine over to check for compression people without testers use a rag stuffed tight round plug hole,see if it shoots out when its turned over


we know theres fuel,by the way a engine will fire without a carb or intake pleunim on it. I know Ive done it with starting fliud justa tad because it will really "OVERSPEED" You could throw a rod out the side of crankcase


I'm just saying this for troubleshooting purpases

[it's paid for]

. . . after removing the carb I tried turning it over & it actually sputtered about three times . . . that was truly music to my ears . . .

. . . I'm gonna put the Weber on this Saturday . . . I'll keep everyone posted . . .

. . . and BTW, thanks everyone!

[Mike's89AccordLX]

You wont have to cut a hole in your hood. Hope it goes well for you.

[it's paid for]

Everything came in yesterday & I'm home again to finally, hopefully get this thing running again . . .

. . . a couple of questions:

1 - fuel line & filter - what should I get?

2 - connecting wire to choke - which one should I connect? If I get this wrong will it hurt anything? If I leave it disconnected (no wire attached) will the carb still work?

Thanks,

IPF

[it's paid for]

More questions . . . the instructions say:

Leave manifold studs in intake. The new adapter plate will bolt on to the intake using the original hardware.

This is obviously going to be impossible, as the manifold studs extend up about 2 1/2 inches above the intake manifold. So, how do I get these out? Is it possible to remove them?

Please tell me I don't have to remove the intake manifold - that would literally require removing the head & take me tons of time. Remember, this is a 2G and the intake manifold is literally on top of the exhaust manifold.

Thanks,

IPF

[PhydeauX]

Yeah, that doesn't sound right. Unless they revised the adapter plate or sent you the wrong kit. The adapter for my 83 was a 2 piece, very similar to the 3g part. To install it you removed the carb studs. The bottom plate matched up with the holes in the intake. There were 4 short beveled bolts that were counter sunk into it that held the bottom in place. Then the top piece bolted to it again with counter sunk bolts. The top piece had holes to accept the new studs that were incluede in the kit, the carb then sat on top of all of that. Assuming your 83 has an EK1 with cvcc (Stock 3bbl carb), it should be the same way.

To remove the old studs you can either spend the money on a stud removal tool, or do it the old fashoned way. Put two nuts on the top of the stud and tighten them against each other, they'll lock to the stud and you can back the whole thing out.

Fuel line. The inlet on the weber should be the same diameter as your stock carb. if I remember right there was enough fuel line on the 83 to reach the weber. As for a filter, just pick up a generic inline filter at pepboys or what ever. I suggest a clear one so you can tell when its time to change it.

andy

[it's paid for]

Yeah, that doesn't sound right. Unless . . . blah, blah, blah . . . so you can tell when its time to change it.

andy

Okay - thanks! The bottom adapter plate matches the bolts perfectly - I hope I can remove them wo/damaging the intake manifold. Would you be willing to let me call you if I have further questions? I'll pay you via PayPal? PM me if willing/able to help.

I'm off to the basement to get this thing running.

Thanks,

IPF

[it's paid for]

THIS SUCKS!!!

The bottom plate and middle plate (between the carb and bottom plate) can ONLY be installed one way . . . when I installed the brass fitting for the brake vacuum hose, the linkage is blocked and won't work . . . there seems to be no way around this . . . some websites do not list the '83 Accord for the 22680.33B carb with 99004.120 adapter kit . . .

THIS JUST TOTALLY SUCKS!!!

:banghead:

[PhydeauX]

The bottom and middle plate only go on one way, but the the carb can be turned the other way. I don't see how that little thing could be blocking the linkage. Can you get a pic? My web server is down but I think I've got a pic of the car on my 83 somewhere I can send.

andy

[it's paid for]

The bottom plate can only go on one way. The plate above that can only gon on one way. Last night - about 11:30 - I turned the carb around 180 degrees and the carburetor cable had a big "loop" in it (I unattached it, then spun the carb around & then reattached it) . . . this did not make for a very good installation and binding occurred - after stepping on the gas, the linkage would return "slowly" to fully closed instead of closing quickly with a normal setup . . .

. . . I'm just sick about the entire process - I've spent $345 on the carb, $205 to get the head done (w/gasket kit), $150 on tools, $98 on "Honda" parts, $80 for tuneup parts, new alternator, new water pump, blah, blah, blah . . . all this after coming off two years of under- or unemployment . . . now, either my son has to quit college (18 miles up the road) or my wife has to get a ride to work . . . my other car is also having serious problems - chuggs & then quits when you slow down . . . of course, my wife is disgusted too that it's taken me so long and so much money & I still don't have a car that runs . . .

. . . typical case of some fool not having enough experience, or time, or money, or patience . . .

. . . I don't know what I'm going to do . . . the battery is almost dead, the fuel line was leaking a lot at the carb . . . and of course . . . it still doesn't run . . . I have no idea which wire is supposed to connect to the electric choke on this carburetor . . .

. . . I simply can't run it with the carb turned around - that's unacceptable . . . there is no way this carburetor will work with these adapter plates . . . now, I have to take my other car that runs like crap on my 5 1/2 hour trip "home" and I won't be able to come back here for another Saturday in hell for two more weeks . . . it was time to quit on this car a long time ago . . .

. . . what a fool I was - four months ago I found a guy who wanted to buy my car for $500 and I turned him down . . . I could've taken that money & the money I've spent thus far on repairs & tools and had a really nice car . . .

. . . stupid decisions make for a miserable life . . .

. . . I'll be contacting the guy that sold me the carburetor & adapter kit on Monday morning . . . hopefully, he'll give me part of my money back . . . what a nightmare . . .

[shepherd79]

i am sorry man, but we can't help you untill you take some pictures. if you take some pistures of what exactly you have done to the car we may help you.
and please don't take close up pictures.

[k-roy]

After all this time, money and stress don't give up. Please post some pics so we can see what you are talking about.

I kinda have an idea of what you mean but I need to visualise it.

Here is the stock manifold.
http://www.slhondaparts.com/images/PCI/13SA50/016/6.jpg

The brass brake vacuum fitting; is it on the carb or the manifold? Im thinking it is on the manifold between #14 and $16 in the picture. If thats it and you can not get around it I have a ghetto idea to fix it. Plug where the fitting screws in and say fuck having power brakes. Its not the best solution but it should work. Hell you could shove some towels in the intake and tap a new hole in another location the run the booster from. You got it to sputter, witch is a good sign, please do not give up. You are soo close.

Like Poscarb's sig says: Excelence through ghetto engineering and lots of carb cleaner. :werd:

[PhydeauX]

The throttle linkage on the passenger side is the way it is supposed to sit. The throttle cable instalation looks a little sloppy, but the spring supplied in the kit should be enough to keep it from binding, if not you can always get a throttle return spring from pepboys for a few dollars. PM your email and I'll send you some pics of my 83 install, you'll be able to see what I did with my throttle cable.

The choke needs a 12v source that is switched by the ignition key. I forget the color code that is actually the right wire, I marked mine when I removed the old carb. In a pinch you can feed it of the positive wire on the coil, it wont hurt anything.

andy

[rocky2]

I can help you with a idea for the wires. Get a 12 power sourse. A unused addapter thing that plugs in to 120 volt can work or even a 9-volt battery. Even a car battery. Now ground the neg to the carb itself on bench,take a jumper off the +positive and put it to one wire at a time while abserving choke,see if it starts opening it may take afew minutes. You need jumpers. Hope this helps. We all have problems just hang tough

[it's paid for]

http://bwinsor.home.mindspring.com/honda/weber_carb_interference_01.jpg

http://bwinsor.home.mindspring.com/honda/weber_carb_interference_02.jpg

http://bwinsor.home.mindspring.com/honda/weber_carb_interference_03.jpg

My wife just gave me the go-ahead to buy a $2,000 car . . . she's sick of this mess . . . so am I . . .

. . . I mean . . . where's the point where you just have to let go and give up?

I really appreciate everyone's help and encouragement . . . let's face it . . . some folks just aren't cut out for this type of stuff . . .

[k-roy]

$2,000 you want to spend. Hmm I think you said you are near Atlanta right?
How about a Clean 88 LXi Coupe for $1700 in Atlanta?
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=28812&highlight=sale

[PhydeauX]

That last pic is right. I don't see a return spring anywere, you're going to need one. I ran mine like that with a cheap universal dual retun spring from pepboys for a year with out problems. I just squshed the cable in back behind the carb. You need to mount the cable lower in the arm. You want it in the hole closest to the bottom other wise the throttle wont open all the way.

andy

[k-roy]

http://bwinsor.home.mindspring.com/honda/weber_carb_interference_01.jpg
Ok I just checked this page again and made a observation.
Cap that bitch off on the adaptor plate for the brake vacuum. Use the intake for brake vacuum like you are SUPPOSED to do and bolt the bitch on. You can get return springs from napa, they have a box of various sizes behing the counter so get a few. Go home slap the spring on and fire the bitch up. You have allready spent a lot of money and countless hours pondering over this so just finish it damnit.

Oh god I just thought of something, you are going to have to tune the carb to get it to run right. Thats gonna be a real bitch, for you at least.

[PhydeauX]

Its a 2g, there isnt an intake port for the brake booster. On the 2g the original port in in the same spot as that one. Its intergrated into the plastic insulator/mixture heater under the stock carb.

andy

[k-roy]

Its a 2g, there isnt an intake port for the brake booster. On the 2g the original port in in the same spot as that one. Its intergrated into the plastic insulator/mixture heater under the stock carb.

andy
That sucks. Oh well it was an idea at least. Can you remember if you had the same thing with the port sticking out below the linkage? If so What did you do?

Worst case scenerio he could plug the port and forget about having power brakes.

[79EK1]

There's several ways around the problem. You already mentioned one, which is to rotate the carb 180 degrees. Another easy way is to buy the carb base heat shield. It goes between the carb base and adapter plate. It will give you an extra half inch of clearance and keep the fuel in the carb cooler. The third way is to drill and tap a new hole in the adapter plate on the other side, and attach the vacuum booster hose there. It's extra work, but then you don't have the kinked throttle cable.

[it's paid for]

. . . okay . . . so, I sent an e-mail to the guy that sold me the Weber - a nice guy in FL . . . 3B (blah, blah, blah) and so . . . he sends me a package with another piece of something that's supposed to go with this car . . . and he called & left a message on my machine . . . ma-ching . . . whatever . . .

so . . . I'm still in KY and I won't be able to work on the 2G Accord 'till Saturday . . . so . . . I'm sure I'm going to have questions . . . will anyone be available Saturday morning for questions?

I'm also going to have to clean the EGR on my '95 Astro . . . so . . . I'll be doing that until my 2G runs . . .

. . . if it runs . . .

THANKS . . . like a whole bunch,

IPF

[1988starter]

Don't give up you are almost there

[it's paid for]

Okay . . . so, I'm back home now . . . I e-mailed the guy who sold me the new Weber carb about the problem & he sent me two plates . . . I guess they're stacking plates . . . also includes new bolts for attaching the carb . . . my question is this . . . the plates have paper on them - is this a gasket & shouldn't be removed, or what?

. . . this makes four plates stacked between my carb & the intake manifold . . .

. . . I hope I can get this thing running . . . here goes!

[1988starter]

I would leave the paper gaskets there