48 IDA Manifold

[Bronx89lx]

Piercemanifolds.com sells a 48 IDA's aluminum flanges. That could be great for a dual 48 set up. These are supossively new webers but im in the process as we speak in researching more about them.

[A20A1]

Downdraft / Down draught is nice... isn't 48 a bit big though?

[A20A1]

Hmm... I just had an idea with this manifold.
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/Images/Catalog/K9528.htm

[smufguy]

you guys are crazy. Carb guys, u know im talkin about you all :D well anyway, I like the kitty on ur Avatar Mike. Nice hat ;)

[k-roy]

I thought the IDA was a downdraft. From what I read the sidedraft DCOEs had a tight enough fit under the hood. But anyways if you decide to try it good luck.

[A20A1]

From what I read the sidedraft DCOEs had a tight enough fit under the hood
The 48 IDA is big because of it's bore size and the spacing between the barrels.
You may want to push the manifold back some to get clearace for velocitly stacks.

The DCOE isn't a tight fit unless you have long runners on the intake manifold... or you have a 2G accord like Phyedux.


I thought the IDA was a downdraft
Yes

[Bronx89lx]

The 48 IDA's are just a bit bigger and these go perfect wit carter fuel pump. There are different size velocity stacks so u can make up the room for the manifold.

[A20A1]

You can swap out venturies in those?

I'm just worried that the bigger size will kill the responsiveness of the carb.

[PhydeauX]

The dgv barely fits under the hood of a on the stock manifold with the short air cleaner. Ida carbs are taller then the dgv to begin with. If you want to do it right you're going to want a smooth radius bend in the manifold, thats going to raise the carbs even higher. And you want the intake ports to be the lowest point in the manifold so you can't dip the runners down for clearance. If you really feel you need a monster carb there is always the 50 and 55 dco series.

andy

[rjudgey]

45's are big enough, The body of a 48 and 50 are bigger than 45's with honda using 90mm bore spacing you would have to offsett the carbs to the inlet ports, sidedrauights are gonna be better than downdraught less bends to negotiate better flow, but i suppose it would look kinda cool having two carbs and a set of trumpets sticking out the bonnet!!, hell get some 90 degree bent trumpets and you'll have ram air induction!!
45's can have a maximum choke size of 41mm and with a lathe this can be increase to 43mm which is more than big enough for any 2.0litre 4 pot!! And with huge carbs like IDA your gonna loose low end tractibility. But theres lots of other gains and they can be tuned for lower end torque but then 48's would be limited in that area best going for 40 dcoe's with small chokes if you want low end grunt or doing a EFI conversion with a custom ECU. To be honest the Honda EFI manifold modified and setup with an aftermarket programeable ECU is gonna be best bet for money for good allround torque and a little more BHP as well as keeping fuel economy twin IDA 48's or 45 DCOES is gonna drink fuel like it's going out of fashion!!

[PhydeauX]

I'll second that, I'm lucky to get a little over 20mpg on the car on the highway.

I remeber seeing a shop some where that has 45mm chokes for 45mm idf carbs. I assume that they could do the same thing for a dcoe. I'll also assume that the carb tracked terribly at lower rpms. When I was running 40's with 32mm chokes the car a plenty of bottom end power. Even now with 45s sporting 36mm chokes there is plenty of lowend. I can't really say I've expierenced the full topend yet because I am fairly certain that the carbs flow more then the stock head ports.

andy

[rjudgey]

Try going bigger on the chokes i found that running anythin less than 40mm chokes really choked the engine!! Also the carbs can only go to 43mm thats the internal diameter inside, basically i've got a spare set of 36mm chokes that i never use as they kill too much power, i'm going to turn the inside on a lathe so that basically all the metal is gone and all i'm left with is a rounded ring that fits infront of the carb lip inside the bore which gives it a nice a shpe to flow the air through. Also if you mod the spindle to except countersunk screws and grind the ends and heads flush with spindle that will help increase flow too. Also remove any nasty casting flash on the internal components every little helps ;0)

[PhydeauX]

Just out of curiosity whats are your baseline jets with 40s on an a20a? I have sanded down the carbs, they are the new spanish carbs so they really needed it. I'll be sticking with cheap mods this year with most of my car funds/time going to finally getting that damn nova to run again. I want to see the accord go low 15s on an internaly stock motor trying to get it where openloop was before they droped the b20 in. I'll be setting that as my goal for this year. The top end feels alot better then it did with the 40s and the car droped almost .4 off the et. Still feels like there is more to be found uptop.

andy

[rjudgey]

well if you do the little mods i told you about it will go quicker especially as your head is a20 mines on a a18 with 36mm size inlet ports. mine are 45's not 40's idle jets are 50 f9 main jets are f16 emulsion tubes with 150 mains for road 165 for track, 190 airs, 40mm chokes at mo going to try 43mm to see if theres any difference. 4.5 auxillary venturi but really need to change to 5's.
what duration cam do you have? even with a 270 duration cam 40mm chokes still went bettr than 36mm. see if you can borrow a set before you cut yours out.

[88LXi68]

well if you do the little mods i told you about it will go quicker especially as your head is a20 mines on a a18 with 36mm size inlet ports. mine are 45's not 40's idle jets are 50 f9 main jets are f16 emulsion tubes with 150 mains for road 165 for track, 190 airs, 40mm chokes at mo going to try 43mm to see if theres any difference. 4.5 auxillary venturi but really need to change to 5's.
what duration cam do you have? even with a 270 duration cam 40mm chokes still went bettr than 36mm. see if you can borrow a set before you cut yours out.

English? :) J/K

[PhydeauX]

The cam is 272i/292e lift is .402i/.413e. You can get it to idle with the 50f9 jets? I had to go up to a 55 on mine. Right now my carbs are jetted with 145 main and 155 air. Which is actualy how they came from the factory. I though that air jet seemed way small and I poped some 180s in it. Iused some formulas I found on line that said that would be a good base line. The car was happier with the 155s, surprised the hell out of me so I left them in. I probably should have tryed some 165 or 170s. Its a pain in the ass to get my hands on the jets since there are no local shops that carry the parts so I haven't tuned them as much as I'd like to have. Can you get 5mm av's? I thought 4.5 was the max, thats the biggest I've seen them anyway. You can't just run a drill through them because they have that fuel port sticking out in side (for lack of the proper techical term) can you? What benefits do you get from upping their size anyway?

andy

[lightbulblxi]

hey smufguy, that post was almost as pointless as this one!

[rjudgey]

Sure am English ;0)
Only A series engine in U.K with twin Weber DCOE's baby!!
Yeah 5's are the Max for anything 2.0litre and above what you'll find is when you reach the limit of the aux vent's the engine just cuts out suddenly like a rev limiter, 4.5 is fine for moderately tuned 2.0litre but mines got way beyond that, unfortunately you can't drill them out as the larger the number corresponds to a smaller hole!! not larger!!
If you get stuck for air correctors or anything else their quite cheap here and small and light so just gives us a shout what you want and i'll see what i can do!!

The smaller air correctors make the mixture richer will give you more power, as i run a bigger jet i can lean it out a bit more, plus i find that with 180/190 i get better top end power which is where i want it especailly with 40mm chokes. Also depends on ignition running leaner needs something that can burn a lean mixture which the directs Hit's caps do they vapurize anything even when the cylinder is leaking oil and water the whole lot gets combusted!!

Interesting cam profile whats your power band? Going to try and get a 295/300 duration all round with 450/475 lift on inlet and 500 thou on exhaust got the clearance inside the engine and pretty sure the rockers can take the lift as i had a high lift cam before 500 thou but requires valve spring mods and platform mods to avoid too much spring compression.

Just out of interest have you had your engine dynoed and if so whats your output figures? Mine when last done on a previous engine was 176.3 whp but is slightly more on my new head design and piston/ring combo.
But can't wait to try out my exhaust valve conversion ideea hoping for a 15-20 bhp increase treading in unkown territory so don't really know what to expect from this mod but even if it doesn't deliver the power it will be good knowing that i have much better valves and springs in place of the stock inlet ones which are nasty metal!! but hopefully going from 30mm to 32mm inlet on all eight inlet valves should be big boost!!

[PhydeauX]

I usually pay us$4.50/jet. Availabity isn't a problem, it's having to wait the week for them to show up unless I want to pay $20 to have them overnighted. I should just buy a whole range, but there is somthing about paying $80 for a bag of little brass things with holes in them that my wallet cant justify (even if I know I would be saving on shipping and headaches). I haven't had the engine dynoed. I'll get around to doing that when I get around to getting a collection of jets so I can tune the motor more efficiently. So eventually I will get around to doing it right. Hopefully I'll get to that this year, no more adding expensive parts untill I've got what I have working at +95%.

I think the estimated hp of is something like 160ish at the crank, but thats a very rough guess using a [email protected] 1/4mi time and a guestimated weight of around 2300lbs. At the same time I installed the 45 carbs I took a new job (how I was able to afford them) and I haven't had as much time as I would like to wrench on the car. The motor is in need of a refresh and the car itself is in general need of a good overhaul. The cam has a pretty broad power band. When I had it ground I was having hope of using the car for auto cross, though an 85 accord isn't really a good platform for that. The cam is a colt grind inbetween stage 2 and 3. The advertised power band is 3000-7200 if I rember right. In it's current state the car is making plenty of power down as low as 2500rpm but its dropping off before 7000. I'd problaby have a better idea of the power curve if the thing had actually been on a dyno, this is just my butt talking right now.

andy

[rjudgey]

nothing wrong with the butt meter! even more enhanced by having a bucket seat!
sounds to me like your chokes are cusing the top end plus running such rich air correctors.
i know what you mean about the jets and things there a real pain cost 3 pounds each but over last 2 years i have all jets from 140-180 air correctors from 160-240 and chokes 36mm and 40mm, emulsion tubes f2 and f16, pumps 45/50's. so it's real easy for me to tune have a special container box that fits under seat so they go everywhere i go drag strip days are excellent for tune ups and experimenting!
is it a a20 head you have or a et1 head? but i can bet it's your chokes thats killing the power with all your mods i would have thought it would be quicker i had mined dynoed after i had put webers on at the time had a basic stage 1 head job with stock seats, 270 duration cam 400 thou lift stock exhaust, stock flywheel and clutch, and also on top of a very badly worn block 1.8litre with 125k on it with comp test on all 4 of only 120lbft and it still made just a shade under 150bhp at flywheel powerband was 2k-7000rpm and had so much low end i could pull away in third and shift into 5th at 15mph! my how it's changed!
what type of 2g accord is yours i though they were quite light?
p.s what fuel pump you running at at what pressure?

[Bronx89lx]

The Manifold is just an idea not a project just trying to threw ideas out to people.My project begins another approach from everyone else. It's coming.............LAB TEchnologies.

[PhydeauX]

Sorry for hijacking this tread bronx. The downdrafts are a nice idea, but with the layout of the engine bay and space under the hood dcoe's are a more sensable choice, performance and cost wise they are about the same. If you've been reading all this you can see that you can tune and reconfigure them just about any way you want to.

Its got enough torque to pull that 3rd to 5th stunt. Well the integra gears with a dx accord 5th wont do it anymore, that 5th is like .71 or something rediculous like that. The shift from 4 to 5 really catches you off guard, feels like you skipped a gear.

The fuel pump is a holley red. The fuel lines have been redone in 5/8". Fuel pressure is 3.5psi and the carbs have the big ball valves in them. I was haveing problems with the one carb intmitantly leaning out bad. I though it was fuel system and redid the whole thing. I use a holley regualtor with 2 exit ports one carb on each side, 5/8" coming in and 1/2" out to each carb. Still leaned out, turns out the av retainer bolts on one of the carbs had fallen out. <Grumbles something about poor spanish manufacturing>. I shouldn't be having any problems there, that setup should support 300hp easily.

The motor is an a20a3 aside from the cam it's internaly stock. It has a stock prelude 1.8 flywheel and act clutch. The 2g accord is probably close in weight to the 2g prelude, maybe a little lighter due to the much simpler front suspension, but I've never weighed it. Mine is a 2dr lx hatch and has been gutted. I run it with a full tank of gas, no baffels in the tank (I moved the pickup tube closer to the back of the tank when I redid the fuel system, but I still prefer to make sure its full) and I weight about 180lbs.

andy

[rjudgey]

ida's are nice but best left for v6/v8/v10/v12/v16 engines, unless you did a curley wurley manifold that dropped the height so you can fit the in just under the hood but with rumpets just poking out into a scoop, but really 45's with a airbox going into an induction scoop on bonnet will probably be just a little better as the shot into engine will be dead straight. besides ida's cost just as much as dcoe's!
Andy tell me about bloody spainiards! one of my 45's has developed a hairline crack around the choke screw retainer and then spread along the length of the bore, fortunately its not gone through thickest part nearer to the butterfly so gonna get it welded up asap while i'm sorting out my clutch probs! AP are sorting out a 3/4 puck cerametallic solid hub disc so hopefully that won't be breaking in any hurry!
2g hatch i would have thought would be lighter than 2300lbs 2g prelude is less than that well mine is a lot lighter base model had no electrics, no sunroof, no a/c, no p/s just seats, engine, and wheels!
great nothing silly to go wrong!
1/4 mile time seems about right when i was at the strip last was getting 14.6 with .823 reaction need to work on that a bit! cars quicker than that the strip nearest to me i can never get grip in 1st, 2nd and squeels a bit when going into 3rd yet on a good dry road i never get hardly any spin! nasty tarmac i think! i think only way to reduce it is wider tyres with slicks some 215's maybe. still got to get round to loosing more weight in car, prepared a list of things to go and parts to replace with lighter ones just need some warmer weather to get on with it! i reckon i can shave at least another 100-150lbs in weight then i'll weigh to see howmuch i've actually lost!

[PhydeauX]

It very well could be lighter. I've never weighed it. I believe 2300 is the stock weight, - interior, ac, misc crap the engine doesn't need to run, + gas, me, a20 (if that does infact weight more then the es2). Its just a guess. The car is physicaly about the same size as the prelude, its a little taller and a little shorter. Next time I take it to an event big enough for them to have the scales out I'll look into getting it weighed.

andy

Oh, I did use those pierce flanges (dcoe) when I built my manifold. Pricey but high quality. They are nice and thick, flat, and they even pre tap the holes for studs (now if they had only used a metric thread.. )