Head bolts...

[TINBOAT]

After going thru some head scratching situations regarding oil in the coolant, head gasket changes, cylinder head checks, (ad nauseuim)...a parts guy at Autozone told me that the headbolts MUST be changed on 3g's every time you remove the head....he went on to say that the bolts stretch and never seal...(I think he just wanted to sell me a set of head bolts to add to his monthly sales bonus or something)...I do know of some engines that require bolt replacement because of certain sealers applied to the threads, and bolt stretch from torque etc...but the 3g's head bolts do not penatrate into any water (or cooling) jackets in the block, as far as I can tell...

..anybody care to elaborate ??? :argue: :bs:

[k-roy]

The bolts are called "Torque to yeild" witch means they are a one time use item.
Once you torque them down and start the engine the threads do stretch. I heard that it is not always possible to get a correct torque reading with used bolts. When you reuse them you *might* be ok but it is a gamble at best. Personally when I replaced my gasket I used new bolts. I like to do a thourough job and not have to worry about small things going wrong.

[Gregg86DX]

Kroy is correct but I think it is worth noting that the head bolts used in our engines are not Torque to Yield. Normal bolts are generally safe to reuse if they are in good condition and not stretched. If they are stretched, they will probably break before reaching specified torque anyways. There is a thread around here with a more in-depth discussion and some links to web sites talking about this.

So you are getting oil in the coolant but not coolant in the oil? Does your oil have a chocolate brown look?

Gregg

[Bioforge]

all I have to say is ARP bolts baby...cant go wrong there. :)

[TINBOAT]

Yeah I'm getting oil in the coolant (again)..the head is fine, and getting some in the pan to, but not that much. The block was fine ( I pulled it from a strong running LXI, and had a rebuilt head and did all the swap stuff)...I dont have an oilpan full of milkshake, but just the opposite for the radiator..seems to be LOTS of oil getting into the cooling system...gonna pull it apart Sunday and maybe put the old head back on (I know that there were no leak issues with that one)...just getting frustrating, I'll try going with new bolts..
The car is a florida car, been well maintained, never seen snow, always had 50/50 antifreeze mix, I bought it because the previous (and original) owner was having overheating issues and deemed the car unreliable..it's a damb fine 3gee otherwise, hunter green, straight as a pin..cream interior..140,000 miles
I've done lots of head swaps, gaskets etc, but have never come across this prob before...the torque to yeild bolts I have replaced have been on Grand-ams and such..those are the cars you throw away when they start leaking...not Honda's.

[BootMachine]

Get a thread measuring tool...the little tooth things that come in the tapp and die kits. Measure the threads on a new bolt. THEN...make sure the threads are NOT stretched on the old bolts. If they are not...you can re-use them. I have and the engine worked!

ALSO...if the bolt has been damaged in any way or IS stretched you may just snap it off in the block trying to get it down to 70 foot pounds....or about that anyway!

[Gregg86DX]

When you say you've checked the head, what have you checked? Warpage? Pressure test? Zyglo for cracks?

Also, you say the block is fine, how do you know? The previous owner was having overheating problems, well, that usually happens for a reason, and it only takes one good overheat to warp or crack a head.

You said you changed the head gasket, was it blown? Compression test? Have you had the cooling system pressure tested?

I know it may not be the answer you want to hear, but oil in the coolant or vice versa is usually caused by a blown HG or cracked head or block.

Good luck,
Gregg

[TINBOAT]

The head was jet-washed, and crack tested at the machine shop before the valve job (resurfaced also, was about .006 thou to clean it up)...the old block was changed out, because it was the suspected culprit.
The old head gasket had no sign of leaks or compression breaching.
Compression is 122-125 psi across the board.
I'm gonna tear it down again this weekend, and return the head to the machine shop, if there is anything wrong with it, they said they will replace it and pay for the gaskets ( I'm in pretty good standing with the shop, I bring them LOTS of business)

Curious tho, I'd like to hear about problems with cracked heads on these cars...doesnt seem like it is a major flaw with these cars.

[Gregg86DX]

The cylinder head cracked on mine at the top of the head, under the camshaft near one of the center cam bearing journals. I was getting chocolate oil and when I pulled the valve cover, you could see little puddles of coolant under the cam. I used a cooling system pressure tester to pressurize the system. It would leak down the pressure in a few minutes. If you can get your hands on a tester, it may help identify where the leak is by pressurizing the system and start looking for where the coolant is going (into the cylinders, top of head, oil pan, out the water pump, etc...)