89 Accord oil leak

[spoon611]

First thing's first. Hi! I'm a newbie :help: . I was suggested to this website by someone at www.honda-tech.com. I checked out this forum and it is very much what I've been looking for! Thanks for having me here, hopefully I'll learn enough about this car that I too can help out others like everyone else does. That being said...

I have an oil leak on the timing belt side of my engine. I replaced the distributor o-ring as suggested by someone to me, that thing was dry rotted to he**. That stopped the leak that was falling onto the tranny. Well, I thought that that leak was drifting onto the other side of the engine and dripping down onto the oil pan and driver's side suspension, but I was wrong. I opened up the top timing cover and noticed oil thrown around in there. I cleaned it out at the car wash to make sure it wasn't just old oil. There is a leak there. It leaks pretty badly too. I'd say 1/2 qt a day :(. I've done some searches here and found it could possibly be a cam seal, popular leak from what I've seen. Question is, will I be able to access that seal without having to lift the engine out? I looked in there and it doesn't look like much room to work with. Does anyone know what the process to replace this seal would be? I would also like to replace my belts since they have had oil all over it for the last few months. Thanks guys!!

[shepherd79]

the front cam seal is very easy to access. you don't have to pull the engine.
just remove the valve cover.
remove the plasic cover over top of the cam gear.
remove the distributor
use zip ties to secure the timming belt to the cam gear. this way you don't have to readjust the timing belt.
loosen the tension on the timing belt.
remove the cam gear, don't lose the pin.
remove the rockers,
pull out the cam,
replace the seal and put everything back.
it is very easy to do if you know basic work around the engine.
good luck.

[spoon611]

Great reply Shepherd79!! Thanks!! Now, before I go tearing apart my cams and thingamabobs, do you think that could be the problem? Are there any other more common problems that it may be? Car has 213,000 miles on it if that helps any. Thanks again!!

[k-roy]

Thats a good rundown Alex, but I think you missed one BIG thing.
Hey spoon611 have you replaced the valve cover gasket yet?

[spoon611]

Thats a good rundown Alex, but I think you missed one BIG thing.
Hey spoon611 have you replaced the valve cover gasket yet?
I checked it out about a month ago when I had the cover off. It seemed pretty good to me, still flexible. Think I should replace it just to be sure? I guess 10 bucks won't set me aside very much.

If it is the cam seal, could I get that at autozone or do i have to go to the dealer?

[k-roy]

I reccomend replacing the valve cover gasket first. I would make a $10 gamble.
When mine went bad it was still flexable and looked allright.
I don't think that the cam seal is a part most stores carries. The dealer will have it.

[shepherd79]

actually the problem with valve cover gaskets are that when you tighten them down, you can't loosen them or you will have a leak.
so i would recomend replacing the valve cover gasket while you replace the cam seal.
the way you described sounded like it is a cam seal.
i can't imagine anything else to leak oil into the timing chamber.

[nswst8]

Hey guys, I thought that I had a rear main seal that went, so I went after that one. Turns out the seal was great even after 194,000 miles, but the clutch needed to be changed. I still change the rear main already there.
The three major culprits were the Distributor oil seal, oil pan gasket and the most elusive was the oil filter base seal (base bolts to engine) $3.09 at Honda.
Did timing belt and went ahead and did cam, crank & oil pump seals they all looked good, crank seal was the only one that even looked remotely weeping. Also did the drive axle seals since I had the drive shafts out.
Only the oil pan gasket, valve cover and rear main were not honda I used aftermarket Felpro I believe. But the other ones even the rear main I'd highly recommend Honda OEM seals, especially if you plan on keeping your ride in excess of another 100,000 miles as I plan too.
Hope this helps. LOL
NSWST8 :cheers:

[spoon611]

You guys are the shiz! Thanks guys!! How much time would I be looking at spending on this small project? By the sounds of it and without problems, I'd guess around 3 hours total time. Not including my breaks :). Also, any clue on price for the seal?

[spoon611]

I was wondering if it would be the oil pan bolts and gasket that may be the problem, but with how much it's leaking and since it's on the side where the timing belts are, I figured it would be the cam seal. I don't have too much knowledge on working with the engine seals like this though, should be interesting. I'll probably retorque the oil pan bolts just for safe measure.

[AZmike]

I'd get the valve cover gasket at the dealer. It costs about what the autozone part does and you can pickup a new set of grommets for a few dollars more. If the cam seal doesn't solve the problem (which I would also get at the dealer also ~$7) it might be the crank seal. It can also be replaced with the engine in the car, but you would have to remove the crank pulley and timing belt to access it.

[Dibbs]

any clue on price for the seal?

Majestic Honda (http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/)

Just go to the Honda parts store section, enter the make and model of your Honda and look up the part you need.

[spoon611]

Well I called up the dealer and this is the prices they gave me.
Cam seal 10.15
Crank seal 11.63
Valve cover gasket w/grommetts 20.62
Autozone can get me the gasket w/grommets for 7.89, I think I'll just get autozone's since I'm getting a little tight on the casheesh.

I'm gonna have some fun this weekend.

Why should I get the valve seal from the dealer other than autozone?

[shepherd79]

autozone gaskets are fine. i never had any problems with felpro gaskets.

[AZmike]

When I priced them about a year ago the dealer part with grommets was around $15 and the autozone part without grommets was about $10. The only reason I recommended the dealer for the valve cover gasket was it seemed like a better deal since you can get the grommets too for just a little more. I guess Autozone has gone lower and Honda has gone up. Maybe the prices are regional.

[Justin86]

Even when I got all new gaskets I still had some leaks and I had to put some ATV silicone gasket. I put it on the valve cover, distrubitor, and water pump. You can get it at AutoZone for about $6

[shepherd79]

when you put valve cover gasket, you have clean the head very good. i mean it has to be oil free.
if there is oil between the gasket and the head it will leak no matter how tight it will be.

[spoon611]

Thanks everyone for their advice! I bought the cam and crank seals and will probably buy the valve gasket tomorrow. I'll do this job this weekend and post my progress with it. Hopefully my next post won't be one asking for help on putting it back together correctly!! :rolleyes:

[k-roy]

Thanks everyone for their advice! I bought the cam and crank seals and will probably buy the valve gasket tomorrow. I'll do this job this weekend and post my progress with it. Hopefully my next post won't be one asking for help on putting it back together correctly!! :rolleyes:

Oh well if it is your next post, we are always glad to help. :)

[spoon611]

Well I finally got the cam seal on there. When I looked at it, it didn't seem to be leaking to me. Maybe to the untrained eye it looks normal, but there is so much oil thrown around that maybe it could be too.

I didn't replace the valve cover gasket, money was tighter than I thought.

I also wasn't able to do the crank seal yet. That seems like a big project, unless you guys have some tips to removing the everything I need to access the crank seal. I don't know if I want to get into taking all of that stuff apart just to not be able to put it back together. But if you guys have some sure fire ways to get there, then I'll probably give it a shot. I'm working with the Haynes manual and everything on there deals with the engine being out (how nice). So basically, I have the crank seal and the motivation to replace it, but I just need some experienced help :bow: .

I'm going to run the car and see if it still leaks. If it still is leaking, then I know that it is either the crank seal (more than likely) or the valve cover gasket (hopefully, cause I can replace that easy).

1 down 2 to go.

BTW...you guys have helped out so much and I thank you!! If anyone here needs help with cleaning up their credit reports, just let me know!! I can give you the guidance needed to fix your own credit! I've deleted 18 negative items from all 3 credit bureaus since Oct.

[Dibbs]

private message spoon.

[spoon611]

Selfish bump...anyone?

[nswst8]

$3 seal at the dealer, When you changed the cam seal was the belt saturated with oil or was it dry. If it was dry I wouldn't suspect the Crank seal or the oil pump seal. You don't have to pull the engine to change the crank seal, but you will need jack stands and a jack with a block of wood. Probably a weekend end project for someone with little experience just remember to high light the timing belt marks before removing the timing belt.
Give us an update.
NSWST8 :cheers:

[spoon611]

$3 seal at the dealer, When you changed the cam seal was the belt saturated with oil or was it dry. If it was dry I wouldn't suspect the Crank seal or the oil pump seal. You don't have to pull the engine to change the crank seal, but you will need jack stands and a jack with a block of wood. Probably a weekend end project for someone with little experience just remember to high light the timing belt marks before removing the timing belt.
Give us an update.
NSWST8 :cheers:
Did you mean to say "...I would suspect..."?

[MoonScryer]

I'm going to venture crank seal, too. I got to replace my distributor seal and oil filter body thing seal on the new engine - I finally got the time to stick my head around the bottom side of the engine with my dual flourescent light. Gee, what is that dripping wet spot there?? Heh. :D

Where you at in GA? I'm in Peachtree City and above Athens, way in the sticks.

[spoon611]

Hey guys, I thought that I had a rear main seal that went, so I went after that one. Turns out the seal was great even after 194,000 miles, but the clutch needed to be changed. I still change the rear main already there.
The three major culprits were the Distributor oil seal, oil pan gasket and the most elusive was the oil filter base seal (base bolts to engine) $3.09 at Honda.
Did timing belt and went ahead and did cam, crank & oil pump seals they all looked good, crank seal was the only one that even looked remotely weeping. Also did the drive axle seals since I had the drive shafts out.
Only the oil pan gasket, valve cover and rear main were not honda I used aftermarket Felpro I believe. But the other ones even the rear main I'd highly recommend Honda OEM seals, especially if you plan on keeping your ride in excess of another 100,000 miles as I plan too.
Hope this helps. LOL
NSWST8 :cheers:

Well I sprayed down all the oil last night and started it up this morning. Definitely wasn't the cam seal :(. But either way, that one's fixed. I'm starting to wonder if it's the oil filter base seal. I have oil leaking onto the cat converter (more like just to the front of it, below or almost below the oil filter). I still have a trace of oil coming down onto the oil pan just below the timing belt cover, but I'm starting to rule out the crank seal. The majority of the leak (now that I can start with a fresh clean engine :)) is dripping on the side where the oil pan drain plug is located.

I think I can wait for a later date on the crank seal because I want to fix the dripping leak first. I can deal with a slow leak for now.

To summarize:

Oil dripping onto cat converter and making it smoke
Oil dripping down oil pan on drain plug side
Slight trace of oil (more damp than a drip) on oil pan just under the timing belt side
Possible fixes: replace oil filter base seal, retorque oil pan bolts and/or replace oil pan gasket, replace oil drain plug (is there a seal for this?)

What you guys think? Any other things I should be looking for that I may have missed? I'm going to take some pics later on before it rains and post them on here so you guys can see what I see.

*sigh* It's a good thing I have 4 days off this weekend, but unfortunately the dealer isn't open on the weekends :werd:

[nswst8]

You've hit the nail smack dab on the head, remember to apply alittle vasiline or petrolium grease to help keep the seal in place because of the awkward angle to replace it. Mine kept falling out until I applied the grease. Also apply screw clamps to that oil return line thats just under the oil filter, not to tight though. Good job.
Glad to have helped. LOL
NSWST8 :cheers:

[spoon611]

You've hit the nail smack dab on the head, remember to apply alittle vasiline or petrolium grease to help keep the seal in place because of the awkward angle to replace it. Mine kept falling out until I applied the grease. Also apply screw clamps to that oil return line thats just under the oil filter, not to tight though. Good job.
Glad to have helped. LOL
NSWST8 :cheers:
Couldn't have done it without you guys! But the job's still not done yet. Fortunately the parts dept is still open, so off I go to buy buy buy! I have some other plans for today, so I'm going to have to hit this job tomorrow. Wish me luck!

[spoon611]

My adventure continues...

I replaced the oil filter base seal and that cured the leak onto the pipe and down the backside of the oil pan!

I started the car up again after putting that back together and there's STILL a leak! Luckily I am pretty sure I know where it's coming from. It has to be the crank seal because it is dripping directly out of the bottom of the timing cover. Good thing is that I know it's not the cam seal. I ran my finger across the bottom of it just to be sure there wasn't any oil...dry as a bone. So that only leaves me with the crank seal right??

Could someone give me a run down on what I have to do for this job? Everybodys help has gotten me this far and I appreciate it so very much. From what I can tell I'm going to have to take the belts off the pully and it looks like I'll have to take the pully off of the thing above the distributor (water pump?) and possibly the pully off of the steering pump. Will I be able to access the crank from the wheel well or will I have to do this job from the top? If I go with the wheel well, am I going to have to pull the tire off? I don't have to drain the oil do I? Any pointers or time saving tips would be great too! I think this is the last seal to replace as far as the leaks go. Thanks guys!!!

[spoon611]

I got all the belts off and got stuck trying to remove the crank bolt :beat: . I even went out and bought me an impact wrench. Stopped by harbor freight and purchased a 250 ft lb electric impact wrench. Well I did some searching after I found out the gun didn't even move it. Guess I'll be needing someone with a high torque impact gun to do the job. So I put everything back together and figured I will have to go to a shop and have someone loosen it for me. So for now, I'm having a pretty good leak under my lower timing cover. I'm going to end up replacing the oil pump seal and crank seal. That end shouldn't leak for quite a while after I get those in place.

[nswst8]

Sorry you didn't have better luck. I was hoping that you'd just do the breaker bar and leverage pipe with car in gear, screw driver wedged in the flywheel thing.
Keep us posted.
NSWST8 :cheers:

[spoon611]

Yeah, I'm keeping my head up. Will I be able to get the breaker bar AND socket to reach that from the top of the engine? There doesn't seem to be much room in there to do the job. I might just end up going to sears and buy a big ass breaker bar 1/2" should do. I figure the price to have a shop break it for me and buying one would be almost the same. And this way I'll have another new tool! :cool2:

Question on putting the bolt back on. Once I finally get to the point where I put the bolt back on there, is it safe to put anti-sieze on the bolt? It's not going to slip back out will it? Or is there something else I can put on there to keep it from locking up again? Also, will a 250 ft lb impact gun put that thing back on tight enough? I understand the torque for that bolt is something like 108ft lbs. I just dont' want that thing coming off while I'm driving.

[spoon611]

anyone know about the anti sieze?

[spoon611]

Well I took half a day off of work today to work on the car. The oil is leaking so badly, I asked my boss to take the rest of the day off so I can fix this major leak. Taking the advice from nswst8, I went to sears and bought a 1/2" breaker bar 18" long (I shoulda listened to you in the beginning! lol). I also went to Lowe's and bought a 4' pipe to fit over the breaker bar. Well after raising the engine up and sticking the screwdriver in the timing hole I was able to get the bolt to loosen. How sweet the sound of the crank bolt sqeaking loose!!

While I was down there I replaced the oil pump seal, crank seal and timing belt. Thanks to everyone for their help on this site :cheers: ! Now there is no leak that I can see. I'll keep checking this week for any signs of leaks, but I don't think there should be any, I replaced all teh seals that I can think of minus the valve cover gasket and oil pan gasket.

[nswst8]

You have been properly annointed to the world of "Honda Mechanics" Congrats. I liked your thinking on purchasing appropriate tools that way when your friends ask to to barrow a tool ask for a donation. Sometimes it works.
But be careful if you retorque the pan bolts I believe they only 10 lb-ft and cover bolts are only 7 lb-ft.
Your still ahead of the game of DYI, Timing belt by itself is $450 and thats not includung doing the seals.
Let us know if you need any other help.
NSWST8 :cheers:

[MoonScryer]

Nice work dude. Now to just do mine :p

Stockbridge isn't too far from me, so maybe we can hang out some time. Yeah, I'm finally nearly done with school. W00t!!

[Justin86]

Well its nice you finally got everything fixed. :)

[spoon611]

Thanks guys! Like I said before if it wasn't for you guys, I wouldn't have had the right know how to get the job done correct.

MoonScryer, when you coming down to Stockbridge? My next project is getting the A/C fixed on this thing. I have a Keihin compressor on it and I know for a fact it's leaking. It was suggested by a mechanic that I replace the evaporator too (he did a pressure check and found this to be leaking as well). From what I've seen on the board I should be replacing the drier since this was leaking and has been empty for at least 4 months now. I found this on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33543&item=2455708446) and was wondering if you guys think it should be alright? I'm pretty sure the guy will sell it for around $150. I've seen him post before and that was the price of the other ones.

[nswst8]

Are you going to do this yourself or have a shop do this for you. If its a shop than you are talking alot of cash.
I still have the original keihin in mine converted it to R134a about 6 years ago it has a slow leak, but I just add a few oz. every so often. Sometime when it gets really bad I might go in and replace all the seals.
There is a leak sealer out there thats runs about $20 that I have used in a few neighbors rides that seems to work well.
But to answer your question that does seem to be a good price on the compressor it only has a 90 day warranty
Hope this helps,
NSWST8 :cheers:

[spoon611]

Are you going to do this yourself or have a shop do this for you.

I plan on doing as much as I can myself. When you switched yours over, did you flush out the old system? I never did that with mine. If I were to have a shop do anything, it would be to flush the system. There was a leak when I bought the car and I just bought a retrofit kit for around 35 bucks. Put the new taps on there and filled her up. I tried the leak sealer, but this is a pretty big leak. It is gone within the day. I might just try and put the new compressor on there and deal with a small leak. The freon is only like 15bucks a box at Sam's Club I think.

[nswst8]

1st is the compressor leaking or is the evaporator leaking, my seals are the culprit.

No I didn't flush anything, just put the retro kit in just like "Plug & Play".
How are you pulling a vaccum and how long (45 minutes min.) Now at Autozone or where ever, but I know Autozone carries this it is a separate 4 Oz can of sealer (I can't remember the name) it cost around $19 by itself
its is know to be able to even seal evaporator leaks.

If you are planning to replace the compressor and acumulator I would try this first, then if this doesn't work then replace those items.

But remember you need about 1 1/2 - 2 Oz of oil per can of freon. This is the biggist killer of compressors that I know of ppl are always adding cans of freon without oil and the compressor is basically running without oil and what happens.
Hope this helps,
NSWST8 :cheers:

[spoon611]

I know for a fact that the compressor is leaking. After recharging the a/c one day I noticed a hissing sound coming from the compressor. It didn't even last the rest of the day. You think this is too big of a leak to use the sealant with?
When I retrofitted the a/c, the kit came with oil and freon. How do I know if there is oil in there?


How are you pulling a vaccum and how long (45 minutes min.)

I'm not sure about this one. I had a guy test for leaks at his garage. He presurized it and found the leaks. I don't know the details of it.

[spoon611]

FYI, the compressor itself sounds fine, other than the leak. So I know the bearings or whatever still seem to be good. Then again, I haven't activated the clutch in about 3-4 months. It has to be pressurized for me to do that. Or I could just hotwire the a/c switch that connects to the compressor. I've done that before, either way I think it's still in good mechanical order.

[nswst8]

Nothing to lose here, are you able to pull a vaccum on your own.
If your losing your charge after a day then its a sizable leak and if its in the evap then you have a 50/50 shot at sealing it without having to pull the evap.
Call me, I believe that I gave you my #.
Hope this helps.
NSWST8 :cheers: