Subwoofer question

[87pimpsterdocious]

I'm soon to be getting two 10" kicker comp vr's and I have a question. Can someone draw me a picture similar to the one below of how to hook up bridges/parallel dual voice coil speakers? These speakers are 4 ohm dual voice coil. Bob, your help would be greatly appreciated because you're very knowledgable in this area. Thanks guys.

http://students.washington.edu/aal2/pics/parallel.jpg

[87pimpsterdocious]

i think i figured it out, look at this
http://students.washington.edu/aal2/pics/parallel2.jpg

but i want to do this with two, not one, like in the first pic. Is this possible? Won't it lower the resistance to 1 ohm? (which is too low for my amp) How should i hook them up then? I think i'll have to wire each speaker in series, then the two speakers in parallel. Does this sound right?

[87pimpsterdocious]

oh by the way, here's my amp:
http://64.226.242.204/lightningaudio/B400_4.jpg

[Vanilla Sky]

if it's a 4 channel amp, and you have two dual voice coil subs, you can treat that as four channes... just wire them all the same and you'll have what you need... four 4ohm channels

Derick

[87pimpsterdocious]

I only want to use two channels, the other two are for the inside speakers.

[Bassman]

Assuming:
1. You want to bridge two of the four amp channels together, and
2. You want a 4-ohm load.


You were right when you guessed that you need to wire the two voice coils in each speaker in series with each other, then parallel the two speakers.

Label the two speakers S1 and S2
Label the connections on each speaker R1 (red w/ white dot), R2 (red), B1 (black w/ white dot), and B2 (black)

Step 1: Connect one side of your bridged amp (channel #1, red for example) to S1-R1.
Step 2: Connect S1-B1 to S1-R2.
Step 3: Connect S1-B2 to the other side of your bridged amp (channel 2, black perhaps)
Step 4: Connect S2-B1 to S2-R2
Step 5: Connect S1-R1 to S2-R1
Step 6: Connect S1-B2 to S2-B2

Yeah, that should work.

[87pimpsterdocious]

so like this right?
http://students.washington.edu/aal2/pics/kick2.jpg

Would it be better to wire them in series themselves and in parallel together or in parallel themselves and in series together. Does it even make a difference? Thanks a lot guys.

And if i bridge this it will take it down to 2 ohms, right?

[Vanilla Sky]

just ruen the subs off of all four channels, then run the full's off of your deck's internal amp... works for a lot of people... then you don't have to mess with complicated wiring

Derick

[87pimpsterdocious]

no, i'm not doing that, thank you though. The whole point of the amp was to be able to run all my speakers off of it. Complicated wiring = better sound. Thank you for your input though.

[Bassman]

Originally posted by 87pimpsterdocious
so like this right?
http://students.washington.edu/aal2/pics/kick2.jpg

Would it be better to wire them in series themselves and in parallel together or in parallel themselves and in series together. Does it even make a difference? Thanks a lot guys.

And if i bridge this it will take it down to 2 ohms, right?

That looks right. To be absolutely sure, find somebody with an ohmmeter. (A cheap one from Radio Shack would work too.) Set it to measure resistance and measure across the two leads to the amp after you wire the speakers together, but before you actually hook them up. It should read 4 ohms.

[89accordlxi]

That last diagram looks right. That will give your amp a 4 ohm load. If you are bridging two of the amps channels to run the 4 ohm load then each channel will be looking at 2 ohms. Make sure the amp is capable of running 2 ohm loads per channel. If not, you can still run it this way but the amp will warm up faster and could probably damage it in the long run. If so then that would be the way to go. You will be getting max wattage off each channel..

Good luck..

[Bassman]

Originally posted by 89accordlxi
That last diagram looks right. That will give your amp a 4 ohm load. If you are bridging two of the amps channels to run the 4 ohm load then each channel will be looking at 2 ohms. Make sure the amp is capable of running 2 ohm loads per channel....

That doesn't sound right. If he bridges channels 1 and 2 (for example), he's going to use channel 1 (+) and channel 2 (-). Wouldn't that just be a 4-ohm load? How would it become a 2-ohm? I've been running three tubes in two cars like that for years and I know my amps would puke and die on a 2-ohm load.

[pimping89lxi]

:bandit:

No bridging the Amp doesnt change the ohm load. What changes the Ohm load are the Speakers. Bridging the amp will only give more power per channel.

The amp that you have there is a 2 Ohms stable amp, which means that you can run 2 Ohms off of it.

But you say that you want to Run All your speakers of one amp!
here is the Dilema with that.
1. Your Amp is only a 4 channel Amp
2. You have to Bridge your Amp to get anouph Power to your Subs to make them hit, being dual voice coils they require good power.
3. You want to keep the Resistance at a Stable ohm load where you wont fuck up your shit, but yet bump.
4. You have to keep the Ohm load of the other Channel the same as the ohm load that you have running to your Subs. That means that you have to Set All your inside speakers to Equal about 2 Ohms.
If you dont do it right, You will fry your amp. Its a Fan cooled amp and all, But i dont belive that is is Rugged enouph to take being Pushed pretty good and having two different ohms Loads.

[Bassman]

I still don't understand why 89accordlxi said...


"If you are bridging two of the amps channels to run the 4 ohm load then each channel will be looking at 2 ohms.

Was he right or wrong? It just seems to me that a 4-ohm load is a 4-ohm load, and the amp ("knowing" it is bridged) will handle that load and recognize it as a 4-ohm load.

Am I totally confused?

[Vanilla Sky]

the reason i keep saying to run your subs off of all 4 channels is because you need more power for the subs...

you would be better off running the subs from that amp, and running the fulls from your internal amp, or a cheap amp until you can get enough money to get a really good one

Derick

[87pimpsterdocious]

How do you know i need more power for the sub? Do you know the rms rating of the sub? Do you know the rms rating of my amp bridged?

The rms rating of the subs are 300 watts rms. The rms rating of my amp for two channels bridged is about 200 watts.

Can you tell me why you'd rather run two subs off of 4 channels when you can get the same power to both of the subs from only two channels? i don't understand.

[Vanilla Sky]

now i see what you mean...

i figured compVR's would take more wattage

too bad you can't run those channels in 2 ohm and the other channels in 4ohm... that would make it easier

Derick

[jigga225]

#1) When you bridge an amp, it puts out more power... So bridging and using 2 channels of your amp for the 2 subs would be a good idea.

#2) Internal amps from head units are weak. Most are under 20 watts of clean power NO MATTER the brand
:werd:

Oh and by the way... I'm running a pair of comp VR 12's.
That amp is nowhere near enough power to come even close to blowing them. I'm throwin 800 watts to these 12's and they throw it right back at me..

[Bobs89LXi]

Originally posted by 87pimpsterdocious
I'm soon to be getting two 10" kicker comp vr's and I have a question. Can someone draw me a picture similar to the one below of how to hook up bridges/parallel dual voice coil speakers? These speakers are 4 ohm dual voice coil. Bob, your help would be greatly appreciated because you're very knowledgable in this area. Thanks guys.

http://students.washington.edu/aal2/pics/parallel.jpg

Sorry it took me so long to reply. You are correct in your assumption that if you wired each voice coil in parallel, then each sub in parallel, the total impedence would indeed be 1 ohm. Most newer amps are designed to go this low. However, if the amp is rated higher than the subs, you are setting yourself up for voice coil and/or amp damage. In other words if your amp's peak wattage is 200 and the subs are 100, you'll blow the subs.

Here are some questions that might help me in answering your questions.

1. What is the peak wattage rating for your subs, and is that peak rating for one or both the voice coils?
2. What is the peak wattage rating of your amp, and what impedence is that rated for?
3. Can your amp run as low as 1 ohm?

[87pimpsterdocious]

the amp 200 watts is rms bridged @ 4 ohms. I don't think this amp can go down to 1 ohm. the speakers can handle 150 watts per voice coil rms. Therefore i should wire the subs in series with themselved and in parallel with each other, right?

jigga225 are you talking about 800 watts rms or max, cuz that's way more than the comp vr's can handle. The 12's can only handle 400 watts rms.

[Bobs89LXi]

If you wire the coils in series and the subs in parallel, you're looking at 4 ohms bridged. Doing so will split the power between the two subs and the wattage would theoretically be 100 watts to each sub, which should be safe for both the amp and the subs.

[87pimpsterdocious]

it will split it? I thought it would deliver the 200 watts to both subs! So therefore if i'm getting another amp to power these subs i need a 600 rms watt amp bridged @ 4 ohms to power these two and get the full 300 to each?

[89accordlxi]

Yes, BOB is right about the splitting of the power. Each sub will only recieve 100W not 200W. 100w x 2 subs = 200w rms bridged @ 4ohms. If it were the other way which you thought, (200w x 2 subs = 400w) WRONG!!!!! In order for that to be true, your amp would have to put out 400w rms bridged @ 4 ohms.

But like any good amp, the rms rating might be under rated. At 2ohms per channel at lets say 14V, the amp might be able to provide a steady power of maybe 125w per channel in the real world. Which is a safe number but still very under powered for your subs. So just because the wattage is less than the rating for the subs, don't make the mistake of thinking that you can crank it. If you crank it up to much, you will just end up distorting the subs and causing the amp to clip which will damage the subs.
So if you're a bass head, it might be better in the long run to get a bigger separate amp for your subs.

And about the amp seeing only 2 ohms per channel instead of 4, I am possitive that this is correct. Yes, the subs are wired in such a way that the net impedance is 4 ohms. But when you hook the 4 ohms to two channels of the amp, each channel sees only 2 ohms not 4. Again, 2ch + 2ohms = 4ohms total. That is why each sub is recieving its 100w a piece. If each channel was seeing 4 ohms, then each sub would only be recieving what ever is rated for your amp at 4 ohms per channel which I guess is 50w.

Also about keeping the ohm load of all channels the same, I believe this is false. If it is a 4 ch amp, then it is essentially two 2 channel amps put together. As long as you keep the ohm load of channel 1 and 2 the same and 3 and 4 the same, you should be alright, but channels 1 and 2 do not have to have the same load as channel 3 and 4.

I hope this clears things up for every body out there. If there is still any doubt, then I suggest going to a audio shop and asking the pros who work there and I'm am sure that they will agree with what I have written.

That's all I have to say about that...(Forest Gump)

peace out.

[87pimpsterdocious]

Thank you very much 89accordlxi, that was extremely helpful. I knew that the thing about having two different ohm loads messing up the amp was wrong, cuz that's what i'm doing right now. Anyway, i'm probably going to get another amp to power the subs, which in turn means also distribution fuse block, optima battery and that should be able to handle the two amps right? The other amp will likely be a 400-600 watt rms bridged amp. Thanks again guys.